Charles2222
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First of all, I cannot remember who was looking for some of this information, but I have found a very detailed list of the number of German divsions anyway:
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=7288
Now to try finishing my previous partial response to Rune Iversen.
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For the reasons stated above. Besides, they do gradually try to phase it out. The production figures shows us as much. It really is that simple. The percentage of MK IVs in relation to MK Vs (tanks proper) goes down from one of 62-38 to one of 43-57. Or to put it more bluntly: For each two Panther in 1943 they produced three MK IVs. Not so in 1945, where the relationship is slightly lower than 1:1 in the Panthers favor. 5 Panthers produced for each 4 MK IVs. They were gradually phasing it out. The production numbers shows that it was so.
First, let me show the figures I have been using. Note since we were taling about Panthers vs PZIV's, I was NOT talking about hulls alone, but completed tanks. See here:
http://www.feldgrau.com/afvstats.html
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British shifts within the Cruiser family 1939-44? Soviet shift from KV to IS HVY Tanks?
I didn't say there weren't any, it's just I could not think of any others at the time. BTW, do you find their examples as non-existent as the PZIV phase out?
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Heh. Since they kept producing the hulls, they didnīt retool the MK IV factories. Itīs a fallacy. MK IV hull production is as high as you please throughout. The production of MK IVs proper... werenīt.....
Yes, well obviously this is one of the major failing points in your argument. Who started the subject of Panther production wasn't as low as one commonly thinks? It was me. I am also the one who went into comparing it to the PZIV. So....guess what I have been talking about all this time? That's right, I wasn't talking about hulls, but those specific tanks instead.
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I don't care how difficult it was for germany to pulll it off, there clearly was very little effort there, so I do think they really didn't put a lot of thought behind any statements in that regard. (this portion was you an earlier statement by me)
True, but for a different reason than you think. (your returning comment)
Well I rest my case then. They basically had little or no effort into phasing out the PZIV in favor of the Panther. I'm not really too concerned as to why they did not, but it does seem to be the better decision.
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This is the real world, not Command and Conquer. You just donīt "decide" at a whim what factories produce and what they donīt.
That's funny. Factories decide what they will and will not prodcue all the time, and often there are those above them, such as Hitler needless to say, who at times will direct them in micromanagement. Whether those making decisions make it on a whim or if it takes several months is immaterial for the subject at hand. I never said they just one afternoon decided that there would be no more new PZIV factories. In fact, that bit is entirely speculation, but the thought that they would not produce an older tank on new facilities in entirely commonplace practice in business when they are deciding to keep producing both.
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You are simply guessing now. Put up something concrete. At your leisure.
Yes I was, but it makes sense when they are at least giving lip service to converting from one to the other. I mgiht look around a bit and see if I can find something concrete on that, but I have never seen data of that sort.
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I canīt see how that changes anything. You have Panther in full production from April at the latest (with production starting in earnest in January 1943), which coincidentally happens to go nicely along with the ramp up of production following the german declaration of "Total War" in February. Before this, the MK IV production was 1/3 of what it could potentially have been as well.
You're talking hulls again and that wasn't my point.
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As I stated above: A logical consequence of a total economic mobilization starting in 1943 and topping in the summer of 1944. It is not like they were trying to produce less you know. As it is, you have a gradual phase-in of the Panther accompanied by a gradual phase out of the MK IV, whose hull was put to other uses. This is a fact. If they really didnīt mean to phase the MK IV out, donīt you think they would have used more of the available hulls to make them?
Here you go with the hulls again. I said "production figures of the PZIV. That doesn't mean the gas filter of the PZIV, the gun, the suspension, or the hull, but the whole blooming thing. "IF" I were talking hulls you would be correct, but note one key difference, it wasn't Panthers they were phasing out to, but mostly to lesser roles such as TD hulls. Making a PZIV hull into a JPZIV is real lovely for noting some fashion of PZIV phase out but has nothign to do with phasing it out to the Panther. Perhaps you think that I regard hulls as a tank, but I do not. They're merely a large piece and no more.
< Message edited by Charles_22 -- 2/12/2007 10:46:48 AM >
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RE: What is your favorite WWII tank? - 
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