Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/9/2007 12:21:44 PM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		What are they useful for?

They have a range but most don't actually have any artillery, they have a few MP's so have a very minor traffic role, but that's not an important function anyway.

Do they give supply to anyone apart from the couple of independant regiments that are attached to a couple of them?

I use them for converting hexes, their disengagement bonus (very occasionally only) and surrounding units in the early stages of the campaign.

If there's a counter shortage in the game would it be useful to amalgamate them with a few of the artillery regiments?
Post #: 1
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/9/2007 1:06:03 PM   
Monkeys Brain


Posts: 605
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

What are they useful for?

They have a range but most don't actually have any artillery, they have a few MP's so have a very minor traffic role, but that's not an important function anyway.

Do they give supply to anyone apart from the couple of independant regiments that are attached to a couple of them?

I use them for converting hexes, their disengagement bonus (very occasionally only) and surrounding units in the early stages of the campaign.

If there's a counter shortage in the game would it be useful to amalgamate them with a few of the artillery regiments?


The designer himself told me, as they are on free support you can position them beside airplanes or arty or beside land units as they are supposed to give them a boos in supply. I think that is nothing considerable if at all (I didn't noticed so much of a difference) but is nice to roleplay hehe and think that those guys are doing something.



(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 2
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/9/2007 1:41:17 PM   
panzerpelle

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 10/25/2001
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I would use the supply icon on them instead if thats their intended use...

_____________________________

Nulli secundus!
TOAW Design Group Homepage
TOAW Design Group Discussion Forum

(in reply to Monkeys Brain)
Post #: 3
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/9/2007 3:35:31 PM   
Monkeys Brain


Posts: 605
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: panzerpelle

I would use the supply icon on them instead if thats their intended use...


you are right.and on top of that I think that with anti air thingie stronger in t3 I would give german inf hq's some AA guns to defend themselves against planes. I think that they have antitank guns and it would be much more logical that they have some AA guns as they are not front lines units.


Mario

(in reply to panzerpelle)
Post #: 4
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/9/2007 5:14:07 PM   
Zort

 

Posts: 684
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		But maybe they are there for when TOAW allows for a more dynamic chain of command so you can link the divs to corps to armies

Talking about extra units, some of the German navy in FITE should be taken out. That only saves one or two units.

(in reply to Monkeys Brain)
Post #: 5
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/9/2007 8:19:37 PM   
Monkeys Brain


Posts: 605
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zort

But maybe they are there for when TOAW allows for a more dynamic chain of command so you can link the divs to corps to armies

Talking about extra units, some of the German navy in FITE should be taken out. That only saves one or two units.


Well, I wouldn't do that but suit yourself, I like navy as it is.

(in reply to Zort)
Post #: 6
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/10/2007 12:25:23 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Linking formations upwards would be nice :)

So it seems thay are essentially surplus at the moment - IMO amalgamting them with artillery would be a good idea - although probably fairly time consuming...

(in reply to Monkeys Brain)
Post #: 7
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/12/2007 4:31:52 PM   
wwiiguy

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: Minneapolis, MN
Status: offline
quote:


SMK-at-work said:

Linking formations upwards would be nice :)


I agree. I think that would be cool if there were formations within formations. Also if you read any military accounts of battles, you find that detachments from various formations were either temporarily or permanently attached to other formations as needs arose. The one thing that I think this game could model better is command and control at a corp and army level.

_____________________________

Always have a plan for getting out of harms way before going into harms way.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 8
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/12/2007 4:40:07 PM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline 		Well, personally I use them for two things, partisan hunting and bridge repairing...2-3 of those usually get 1 bridge repaired per turn. High movement points and no combat also means that they're actually pretty good at that role.

(in reply to wwiiguy)
Post #: 9
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/12/2007 5:30:51 PM   
Menschenfresser

 

Posts: 252
Joined: 3/26/2004
From: United States
Status: offline 		Supply is probably their best role in FitE for the Germans during Barbarossa. It's important to move quickly across the map AND keep a constant mobile reserve force resupplying behind the main advance. Having no artillery, these Corps & Army HQs are perfect for that. Supply increases by up to 50% for units sitting next to cooperative HQs. There are other units I like to use to convert territory. It's never my greatest concern, because if you take Moscow in 41 you've probably won and you'll have all the time in the world to subdue the populace. If you don't, then you'll have a long stalemate during which to convert the territory.

Personally, if CnC structure is further implemented in the TOAW engine, I'd rather have it something we can turn on and off. Some scenarios just don't need it. FitE would become a real bugger if we had to keep all units within X many hexes of HQs, which had to be X many hexes from their Corps HQs which had to be X many hexes from their Army HQs. Ugh.


_____________________________

Make wargames, not war.

(in reply to Karri)
Post #: 10
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/12/2007 5:38:27 PM   
wwiiguy

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: Minneapolis, MN
Status: offline
quote:


ORIGINAL Menschenfresser

Personally, if CnC structure is further implemented in the TOAW engine, I'd rather have it something we can turn on and off. Some scenarios just don't need it. FitE would become a real bugger if we had to keep all units within X many hexes of HQs, which had to be X many hexes from their Corps HQs which had to be X many hexes from their Army HQs. Ugh.



Wouldn't that make it more realistic where the corp and army commanders HQ's moved with their respective formations?

_____________________________

Always have a plan for getting out of harms way before going into harms way.

(in reply to Menschenfresser)
Post #: 11
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/12/2007 6:56:54 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wwiiguy

Wouldn't that make it more realistic where the corp and army commanders HQ's moved with their respective formations?


It would have to be possible to transfer them between them, as enforcing the 1941 OOB for three and a half years would be insane.

As it stands, motorised corps HQs make great light recon or security troops.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to wwiiguy)
Post #: 12
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/12/2007 7:38:42 PM   
wwiiguy

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: Minneapolis, MN
Status: offline
quote:


ORIGINAL: golden delicious

It would have to be possible to transfer them between them, as enforcing the 1941 OOB for three and a half years would be insane.

As it stands, motorised corps HQs make great light recon or security troops.


I know that the game is not designed to handle this and it does add quite a bit of complexity to this. And there are limits with today's computing technology on how far we can take things. The game does a great job of modeling many aspects of operations.

I like to imagine myself in Eisenhower's shoes with the German's pouring forth from the Ardenes and having to make critical decisions like assigning part of the American forces over to British command north of the bulge and reworking your Corp organizational structure due to the tactical situation at hand.

Or on a smaller scale to be a Corp Commander and attach a battlion of infantry from an infantry division to support an armored division on its advance. Having to account for the enhancement that might bring to the armored division while the detrimental effect that may have to the infantry division. Or the reverse taking the CCA of an armored division and attaching it to an infantry division.

It would require that there be some sort of benefit in the linkage to a central HQ of these various formations in supply and probably proficiency. There'd probably have to be penalties for being divided from your division, corp, or army hq's. There may be proficiency hits that you would take to a unit that get's attached to another formation due to lack of familiarity. Maybe even have a way of modelling characteristics of formations based on the personalities of the commanding Generals.

To me, having to make such decisions were as much a part of operations as supply and telling units to go from here to there and attack that line along such and such an axis of advance. Those were some of the tough calls that commanders had to make to get the job done.

It's a pipe dream on my part probably, but I think I would enjoy having to solve some of those kinds of problems as part of the operations of my armies. It might be kind of interesting to have to deal with.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. I enjoy the game as it is and will continue to play for a long, long time.

_____________________________

Always have a plan for getting out of harms way before going into harms way.

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 13
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/12/2007 7:44:33 PM   
Zort

 

Posts: 684
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		I agree and GG War in Russia does this I think, you can assign div to corps which are assigned to armies.

(in reply to wwiiguy)
Post #: 14
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/12/2007 7:45:25 PM   
Veers


Posts: 1324
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline 		This has been widely discussed, and, with luck, the design team will get to it someday. :D

_____________________________

To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.

(in reply to Zort)
Post #: 15
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/12/2007 7:49:09 PM   
Zort

 

Posts: 684
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		Darn and I thought we were being original and new

(in reply to Veers)
Post #: 16
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/13/2007 2:31:53 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wwiiguy
And there are limits with today's computing technology on how far we can take things.


No- I would say not. The real limitation is the resources to program the changes. Computer power we have in spades.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to wwiiguy)
Post #: 17
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/13/2007 2:34:48 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Ah well - I've taken to being a bit more careful where I put these things now - they are occasionally apeparing beside airbases or artillery stacks when there's nothing better to do with them!

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 18
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/13/2007 3:28:05 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Ah well - I've taken to being a bit more careful where I put these things now - they are occasionally apeparing beside airbases or artillery stacks when there's nothing better to do with them!


I don't think air units benefit from being adjacent to an HQ.

Anyway, note that in a lot of these scenarios, all your standard German units will have full co-operation with one another. So a stack of corps artillery will get the HQ bonus from a divisional HQ just as well as a corps or army.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 19
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/13/2007 5:52:07 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Monkeys Brain suggested above that they might be useful for air units - can't do any harm......

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 20
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/13/2007 12:27:44 PM   
Monkeys Brain


Posts: 605
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Monkeys Brain suggested above that they might be useful for air units - can't do any harm......


To be fair Ben Hur may be right

When I put corps HQ on or beside airport with planes I didn't noticed any improve in supply but TOAW have some fuzzy logic for this and also planes do get maximum supply even on under supplied source (I think that I read this)

EDIT: well maybe they can also shoot some planes if airf. is attacked.

< Message edited by Monkeys Brain -- 3/13/2007 12:53:39 PM >

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 21
RE: Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE - 3/13/2007 7:49:11 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain

When I put corps HQ on or beside airport with planes I didn't noticed any improve in supply but TOAW have some fuzzy logic for this and also planes do get maximum supply even on under supplied source (I think that I read this)


This is the ticket. In TOAW, so long as an air unit receives any supply at all, it receives full supply- including that portion which depends on the presence of an HQ.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Monkeys Brain)
Post #: 22
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Axis Corps and Army HQ's in FitE Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.906