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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell

 
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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/12/2007 7:05:52 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
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Status: offline 		10th September 1943:

limited action due to weather

5:8 losses - nothing interesting....

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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/14/2007 12:24:05 AM   
tblersch

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline 		"It worked when I tested it!"

Gee, I never EVER hear that from my developers...

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Post #: 62
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/15/2007 10:17:51 AM   
fochinell

 

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Status: offline 		Swift Missing In Action...

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Post #: 63
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/15/2007 11:44:35 PM   
wernerpruckner


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good weather in the West and Germany
lots of action....not too much I can do against it at the moment....morale of many units is low...also the high morale units are tired...and that causes too many losses

targets are the UFACs Bremen Seebeck and Deutsche Schiff by the 8th AF
Tactical forces raid the RRs Hannelt and Nijmwegen and also - once again - the A/F Gilze Rijen.
BC active and striking Duisburg and a Mossiebomber raid to Berlin

45:53 losses

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Post #: 64
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/15/2007 11:51:16 PM   
wernerpruckner


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good weather in all of Europe

The 8th AF goes once more against my UFACs ( Vulkan-Vegesacker ) and as a secondary against PORT Nordenham.
Several tactical raids: A/Fs Deelen, Gladbach and Woensdrecht

In Italy it seems that Gavin put everything up into the air...targets are PORT Civitavecchia and the RRs Viterbo, Oriveto, Perugia and Rome-Tiburtina.

In the night raids against Berlin and Bologna.

67:112 losses

The main defenceline in Italy is now the Gustavlinie

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Post #: 65
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/16/2007 10:52:48 AM   
wernerpruckner


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weather !!! and not a single sortie
good turn for moving more stuff around

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Post #: 66
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/16/2007 12:26:56 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
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Status: offline 		14th September 1943:

good weather

West:
8th Air Force attacked the RR and PORT of Münster
Several tactical raids ( RR Brussels Midi, PORT Dunkirk, POWER Interencaut and a sweep on an empty A/F )

Italy:
I got hit hard here:
RR L´Aquila & Terni, POWER Galleto, A/F Viterbo & Rieti
Half of my losses happened in Italy ( and only a third of the kills )
I will retreat the Gruppen sized units back, and move some smaller units to the front.

Night:
BC bombed Gelsenkirchen and once ahain a MOssiebomber raid to Berlin

103:126 losses

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Post #: 67
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/16/2007 3:25:14 PM   
fochinell

 

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Status: offline 		I was thinking about a maximum effort in the west since the weather was so good, but I need a couple more days before the most recent escort fighter groups are up to strength before I go for it. There are now 2 P-38 Groups operational in the 8th AF alongside 3 P-47C and 2 P-47D, with another P-47C group building up. The 52nd FG in the 12th AF should be converting to the P-38 by the end of the month, and deeper penetration missions to northern Italy should follow as the Sardinian and then Corsican bases open up. Still waiting for those 12th AF bases north of Naples to open up. Then my fearsome P-39 and P-40 FG's will be able to enter the battle again after re-equipping from the A-36.


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Post #: 68
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/16/2007 6:34:11 PM   
fochinell

 

Posts: 287
Joined: 11/19/2005
Status: offline 		OK, time for some self-important whingeing. Here are a couple of minor things that really make me feel

1. Why are the recce units obsessed with planning missions to the same targets? What the hell is so interesting about RR sites in northern Denmark (apart from photographing Scandanavian blondes instead of Nazi installations)? The most important/largest sites should be the priority; Hamm, Dortmund, etc.

2. I hate those small 4 a/c flights; they never get involved with autoplotted missions. Those two flights of PR Spits from the same squadron in MAC really need to be rolled up into a single squadron.

Ahh, that's better.... Now for some of Wener's beer.


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Post #: 69
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/16/2007 7:04:24 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
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From: Terra
Status: offline 		Has the Jagdstaffel Helgoland seen some action?
I want to know if I have a kill already.

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Post #: 70
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/16/2007 7:48:15 PM   
wernerpruckner


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Status: offline 		Jagdstaffel Helgoland has seen some big action in the few UFAC raids.
At the moment it has 9 active pilots and a total of 12 kills.
Hptm H.H.Konig 3
Oblt H Behrend 2
Lt E Hondt 2
Ofw T.Steiner 3

I do not know if the other two kills were made by a KIA pilot or a WIA pilot - I do not see those in the pilot list.

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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/16/2007 7:53:55 PM   
wernerpruckner


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all action in the West
I was lucky enough to concentrate my forces against an 8th AF Fortress raid
=> 42 Fortress did not get back to the UK !!

50:67 losses


16th September

weather in the West
all action in Italy:
RR Orvieto, Viterbo, Terni, L´Aquila, Littoria and Rome/Tiburtina and also STEEL Nero Montoro.
Only the Stab units of the JG27 and 77 are close behind the lines
all other units were nove while in patrol status southwards and they were concentrated on a single raid - finally a not so bad turn in Italy

BC was active, but of the 3 bomberstreams to PORT Berlin-Spree only the 3 pathfinder units made the raid...no intercepts, because the weather would have caused too many landing accidents.

10:36 losses
score is 2/7/9

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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/16/2007 9:13:26 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Do wounded pilots stay with the unit or do they come into a pool?
Is there a list for KIA & MIA pilots?

My pilot is Christian Hecht.

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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/16/2007 9:21:42 PM   
wernerpruckner


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Status: offline 		WIA stay with their units

don´t forget that this is the "old" BtR and not the new one

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Post #: 74
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/16/2007 10:21:17 PM   
fochinell

 

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Joined: 11/19/2005
Status: offline 		BC was active, but of the 3 bomberstreams to PORT Berlin-Spree only the 3 pathfinder units made the raid..



Yes, just as entertaining as the "weather too bad to send out the escorts, but not bad enough to scrub the bombers", is the "weather too bad to send out the bombers, except for the lead units".

Scrub them all or none at all!!!!!



Now for some more of Werner's beer to deal with my rage issues.



Much better.

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Post #: 75
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/17/2007 2:05:03 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

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Status: offline 		The escort no show happened several times in rl. Either some bombers don't get th recall, or the fighters aren't at the rendezvous (bombers' version), or the bombers were late and the fighters had to abort for fuel (fighters' version)!

I like that occasional oops moment (even when playing Allied

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Post #: 76
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/17/2007 11:30:15 AM   
fochinell

 

Posts: 287
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Status: offline 		The escort no show happened several times in rl.

Late or a missing wave of escorts happened regularly. On the other hand, an entire absence of escorts did usually result in the recall of all the bombers, and the absence of all the bombing units would not usually see 3 PFF B-17's with H2S attacking the Reich alone.

I like that occasional oops moment (even when playing Allied

I don't mind the weather buggering things up, but the degree to which it does so should be variable. As things stand, it's too binary; either all the following bombers are grounded, or all the escorts are delayed or grounded. In either case, the lead unit always goes ahead regardless.

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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/17/2007 11:58:41 AM   
wernerpruckner


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good weather in Italy,
but still Gavin likes to fly in the fog of the Channel with tactical raids ( Cherbourg Port and Hazebrouck RR )

In Italy Gavin is concentrating on my supply lines => RR Civitavecchia (2 times ), RR Orivieto, RR Rome/Littorio and RR Fabriano.
Once again it was a better turn for my boys - most of them attacked a British light bomber raid

In the night BC targeted Rostock.

3:27 losses ( of my 3 two crashed while flying to their home airbase )

In this game Gavin does not seem to like to attack my A/Fs - so far only 12 A/C destroyed and 35 damaged on ground.

< Message edited by swift -- 6/17/2007 11:59:42 AM >

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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/17/2007 12:58:25 PM   
fochinell

 

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Status: offline 		but still Gavin likes to fly in the fog of the Channel with tactical raids ( Cherbourg Port and Hazebrouck RR )

I use the Tiffies and later the P-47's to do some strikes when there are no bomber forces active and using up the available fighter escort force.

In Italy Gavin is concentrating on my supply lines => RR Civitavecchia (2 times ), RR Orivieto, RR Rome/Littorio and RR Fabriano.
Once again it was a better turn for my boys - most of them attacked a British light bomber raid

You win some, you lose some. The failure of the P-40's and escorting Spits up the Adriatic coast was more disappointing that turn.

In this game Gavin does not seem to like to attack my A/Fs - so far only 12 A/C destroyed and 35 damaged on ground.

RR's are important for terror damage and supplies, as I hate raids against TRP targets - too much Flak attrition for practically zero result. AF's will be hit, though...

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Post #: 79
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/17/2007 1:49:36 PM   
wernerpruckner


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still bad weather over the Channel, and good weather in Italy

In the West there was only one raid - fighterbomber raid to the big Solvay plant (CHEM) near the coast

In Italy - surprisingly - a few sweeps, not very sucessful, but Gavin is showing the flag
A/F Jesi was bombed and sweeped, A/F Grosseto was visited by a sweep.
RRs Orbetello and Sulmona were bombed.
A very good loss/kill ratio during these actions for me....but as soon Gavin moves his units closer to the front it will getting tougher.

In the night BC visited Wilhelmsburg.

At the end of the turn: Invasion of Sardinia.

1:27 losses

active aces:
7 kills flying Me410A2/R2 of the III/ZG 26
6 kills flying Ju88C-6a of the 11/ZG 26
5 kills flying Bf109G-6 of the I/JG 3
5 kills flying Fw190A of the I/JG 26

< Message edited by swift -- 6/17/2007 1:53:44 PM >

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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/17/2007 2:42:31 PM   
fochinell

 

Posts: 287
Joined: 11/19/2005
Status: offline 		In Italy - surprisingly - a few sweeps, not very sucessful, but Gavin is showing the flag



Some poor timing on my part and the small sortie total mean Werner is able to concentrate on the easy meat of the P-40's and hammer them. In my defence it's just too easy to hack down damaged stragglers... but then my minions can rightfully complain that I knew this and I still didn't send enough support out for them. But who cares about P-39's and P-40's anyway?


Mean while the NJG have ceded the night skies to BC yet again.

< Message edited by fochinell -- 6/17/2007 2:43:11 PM >

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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/17/2007 3:05:41 PM   
wernerpruckner


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once again all daylight action in Italy.
Raids against the RR Sulmona, PORT Pescara, A/F Metato & Perugia
Sweeps against Perugia and Aquino
40 losses for Gavin and ZERO for me

but next the night action...damn those NIs......10 nightfighters lost....2 of them He219...
BC bombed Dortmund and his Mossiebombers once again visited Berlin

10:45 losses.......did I say I hate night intruders......

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Post #: 82
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/17/2007 5:28:01 PM   
fochinell

 

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Joined: 11/19/2005
Status: offline 		40 losses for Gavin and ZERO for me



Even by my standards that's a ****ing bad turn. Those Airacobras are almost as bad as the Spits (36 lost this turn, most from the 350th FG).

but next the night action...damn those NIs......10 nightfighters lost....2 of them He219...

That's Stab NJG 1 at 100% losses since the start of the game... good to see the dangerous SN-2-equipped He219 taking casualties.

BC bombed Dortmund and his Mossiebombers once again visited Berlin

I normally hit Berlin with the mossies about 10-15 times per month, just to interrupt OberKommando der Luftwaffe's propaganda announcements about the enormous numbers of slightly-scratched Spitfires and Airacobras dropping out of the sky

Meanwhile the 355th FG re-equips with the P-38L to give me 3 P-38 Groups in the 8th AF, while the 352nd FG upgrades to the P-47D. All I need now is some good weather.

< Message edited by fochinell -- 6/17/2007 5:30:03 PM >

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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/17/2007 10:29:48 PM   
wernerpruckner


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forgot to make notes
all action in Italy, BC also active

11:40 losses


21st September 1943

better weather in the West, but there is still fog in Germany
This time the raids in the West were not tactical - Gavin attacked some secondary industrial sites: AFAC Erla Antwerpen. POWER Flandre Brabant and ARM General Motors.

In Italy once again many RRs were attacked ( Arezzo, Siena, Foligno, Terni ) also one of the POWER plants was attacked.

BC was once again active and attacked Rothensee-Elbe PORT; also the usual midnight Mossie express to Berlin.

7:36 losses

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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/18/2007 11:07:58 AM   
Alfred

 

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Status: offline 		Swift,

I may have missed this, but are you reorganising the aircraft production industry.  Are you concentrating R+D on any particular models.

Alfred

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Post #: 85
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/18/2007 2:16:30 PM   
fochinell

 

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Status: offline 		Are you concentrating R+D on any particular models.

For some strange reason Swift refuses to convert his entire production to the D.520...

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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/18/2007 3:20:43 PM   
Hard Sarge


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From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		I don't know about the 520, but in my game, maybe the IAR 81, it would be a good soild backup model

and while not a game thing, I think it would of been interesting, if the Avia had a chance to grow, at the time it came out, it compared very well with the Early Spit and 109, if it could of learned and been expanded and improved, it may of been one of the better planes of the war, as it is now, almost nobody knows anything about it

I think you got some houserules going, but old Swifty likes the TA 152

hmmm, I wonder how many people will even give some of the "interesting" models a chance

most people go nuts for the 262, while it is the 335 that is the real late war killer

I know the old 109K was bypassed since it has such short range, but in fact, it may be one of the longer legged 109s built

it is a shame, but most gamers, are going to try and streamline there production, and maybe build one Nightfighter, one dayfighter and maybe, one twin, and then miss out on all the goodies there are to be had

(night fighter, I would guess most will try for the 219, but we got the 154, the 188, the 388 and the 88G each and everyone can and is a killer)

(not to count the way the 110 grows, and the oddball 262 and 335 nightfighter models)

(dayfighters, ahhhh, 190D, 152C, 109K, 262 (can count this as a twin also) 162, 55, 56, 2005, 335 (again, could be seen as a twin)

(Twins, the 110s, 210, 410s, the 262, the 335)

and most can be set up to be AS fighters, or Heavy fighters, or carry rockets

and of course, there are the High Alt fighters, the 109H and the 152H (I want to bring in the 190C but may have to save that for later on, as well as the 209 and 309)

LOL, now you got me wanting to go play around, instead of getting back to work :)



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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/18/2007 6:54:16 PM   
wernerpruckner


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Status: offline 		Alfred:

R&D - I do not do much research in my games, I try to bring the new toys into the game to a more or less historical time.
I know that it is possible to research the ME262 for 12/43 but I do not need the bird that soon.

I usually research an build everything that is possible - even though I know that the A/C is a total loss. I do this to simulate that the Germans did not know what would be the next good A/C.
So you can expect - and Gavin has seen most of this in other of our PBEMs - to see everything at least for one time in combat! ( Gavin - the D.520 had made its appearance, and it sucked as usual )
I also invest often a lot of research/construction/building into bottlenecked A/Cs ( this OBOA has several of this A/Cs....G55,Bf109G-10,He219, Ta154, Me262B.....are more or less heavy bottlenecked ) - but for several of these A/C it is worth it !!!!! Moskito vs Mosquito is always great to see

I do streamlighten the production a bit - usually the Co-Axis Allied use Co-Axis A/C or a variant of the Bf109G(6/10/14) [ there are exceptions a Me210 unit, a few FW fighterbombers....]
So with the time I usually put either the G55 Centauro or the Re2005 Archer as the top Co-Axis A/C in production of most of the CoAxis industry.

As most of the A/C have their own "right" time in te game:
Do217 nightfighters are great in the beginning of the game, because they are less affected by windows and other counter meassures.
WildeSau A/C (Bf109G6/u4N and Fw190A-5/Uxx) are also great for a few months....but only the FW variant stays long enough, because the Bf upgrades too soon in the game to the day fighter variants.

I also like to stay in line with most units - Zerstörer will always be heavy fighters in my games ( Me110,210,410, later Me262 with rockets and ultimativly the Do335 ); the same for the fighterbomber units - slow as flying bricks with a heavy load of rockets, but when you are able to bring them close to the bombers

My main dayfighter A/C are for 1943 the Fw190A and the Bf109G-6 ( with a few G-5 units ), in 1944 that will slowly change to the Fw190D and Bf109G-14.
In the Middle of 1944 the production of the Me262 will start, but I mostly use them for the heavy fighter units, also the Bf109G-10 will start around this time.
In autumn 1944 the Bf109K will be produced ( but the G-14 will stay as main variant for a certain time )
At the end of 1944 the Do335, the Ta152 will be produced
And in 1945 the He162 and several other late war A/Cs.

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RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/18/2007 7:04:53 PM   
wernerpruckner


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quote:

but old Swifty likes the TA 152

yes I do, but I also like the Bf109K and the Do335

why you ask:
the Bf109K is the ultimate Mustang killer in the game, yes it has nearly no range, but in its range it is deadly
the Ta152 is a cool bird, probably the best allround fighter in the game
and the Do335 has very long legs - distract the escorts with tons of Ta152s and Kurfürsts, and the Do335 will finish the bombers.

I do not like the Me262 as fughter very much, it is easy to kill ( if your opponent knows how to put his escorts right ) - its only purpose for me is as rocket fireing bomberboxes breaking heavy fighter...after them the Do335 will finish it

As for nightfighters - here it is most often the game stone-scissors-paper !!
Each nightfighter has its prime time !!!
put for sure the best allround NF for most of the war is the He219, but it has short legs for an NF
the Ta154 Moskito is THE Mosquito killer for a few month in early 44
but for me the ultimate NF is the Ju88G - fast, very fast...best equipment, good guns...
And for fun in 1945 Kurt Welters Me262Bs for Mosquito trashing


Most of what I said here is for the "old" BtR and the OBOAs by JCL

For the new version......ahhhhh so many new toys........more different version of most A/C........ahhhhh if you only would see what there all is in the beta

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Post #: 89
RE: AAR swift vs fochinell - 6/18/2007 7:09:01 PM   
wernerpruckner


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the usual dirty work in Italy and the West:
RR Terni, RADAR Cinterna di Latina, and a CHEM site in Italy
and RR Serqueux and CHEM Hoechst-Plastiques in the West
BC active....PORT Hannover Mittelland

I have a new ace - the well known H.Herrman of the Stab/JG 300 has now 5 kills!!!
Good old Hajo - the inventor of the Wilde Sau !!!   - in RL this guy is still alive, and has wrote several books.


5:20 losses

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