RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions?

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/26/2007 1:42:08 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marklv

quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

Simple. I paid for this game and want it to be correct and good. I need not leave because you like garbage.

You can be sure I will leave soon though because once SC2 brings out WAW I will be gone. During that interm I will continue to test this game.

You may not like what I say but until they ban me I will continue to say it. This game needs a playback. As to the AI it has some problems but overall it seems adequate. I have only mentioned the AI problems so they can fix them which is why I specifically say what the problem is.

Med has no active AI. Africa has no active AI. Otherwise AI works fine.

WTF do you mean by 'active AI'? The allies had very little in north Africa until well into 1941. Wavell's huge victory over the Italians in 1940 was rather fortuitous and helped by the fact that the latter had no effective response to his tanks. With a better commander, it's quite possible the Italians could have stopped the British.

The point is that there are no game mechanisms to prevent an early Axis bid for the middle east. Nothing prevents the Germans from sending Rommel and a tank unit, along with every available Italian corps to Libya a month after France falls. Since the game allows the Axis this flexibility, it should also have a British counter move programed in. The current probelm is that the Brits do nothing while the Axis overrun Egypt.

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/26/2007 3:54:45 PM

firepowerjohan

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What difficulty level are you playing on HansBolter? I do not think there is any high level strategy game out there where the average difficulty AI (with no cheats) is hard to beat except if you play a game where one side is naturally stronger than the other (like in American Civil War games)

We could have made Allies much stronger than Axis in CEaW and then you could get a challenge playing on normal difficulty when playing Axis but would on the other hand easily win if you picked Allies playing against Axis AI.

As CEaW is designed I would say, AI need at leist +1 handicap against an average player, +2 handicap against good player and +3 handicap against experts.

< Message edited by firepowerjohan -- 7/26/2007 4:00:23 PM >

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Post #: 62

RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/26/2007 4:04:32 PM

Hard Sarge

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quote:

WTF do you mean by 'active AI'? The allies had very little in north Africa until well into 1941. Wavell's huge victory over the Italians in 1940 was rather fortuitous and helped by the fact that the latter had no effective response to his tanks. With a better commander, it's quite possible the Italians could have stopped the British.

don't forget, that after the victory, most of Wavells forces were pulled out and wasted in other areas

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/26/2007 4:15:15 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: firepowerjohan

What difficulty level are you playing on HansBolter? I do not think there is any high level strategy game out there where the average difficulty AI (with no cheats) is hard to beat except if you play a game where one side is naturally stronger than the other (like in American Civil War games)

We could have made Allies much stronger than Axis in CEaW and then you could get a challenge playing on normal difficulty when playing Axis but would on the other hand easily win if you picked Allies playing against Axis AI.

I would say, giving the AI side at leist +1 handicap for an average player, +2 handicap for a good player and +3 handicap for the experts.

As I stated in another thread, I played all games on moderate allied advanatge after learning that normal is actually introductory. I find the allied maximum setting too distasteful in it's limitations of German resources. I find little appeal in reducing my own available resources so I that the AI has a chance agaisnt me because I canoot build sufficient numbers of units or keep up with research competitively. Giving the AI a fighting chance by simply ensuring that I will have insufficent, crappy units has little to no appeal for me.

I long for an AI that will adapt to circumstances and attempt to counter my moves. When I transport a German armor unit with Rommel in command to Libya it should cause an immediate reaction by the British. After the 3rd or 4th Italian corp transport to Libya, it should cause an immediate British reaction. They should at least attempt to put up a fight.

The only time I ever saw a significant reaction from the AI was in a game where I didn't drive to Perm fast enough and the Russians reacted to my attempt to drive on Baku from Teheran. They very quickly deployed 3 high quality armored units to Baku and started driving on Teheran. My lone German armor unit surrounded by crappy Italians couldn't compete and I couldn't deploy new forces to the front as quickly as the Russians who could build in Baku. Unfortunately, for the Russians, allowing themselves to be distracted in to overdefending Baku only ensured that I had an almost unobstructed path to Perm.
While it was encouraging to see the AI actually react to what I was doing, it didn't seem to have a proper sense of priority. With Moscow gone, Baku fell into my hands as soon as I took Perm.

At this point, with an AI that makes no effort to defend the Med and is so easily beaten in Russia I am sorry I spent $70 on the game. I do have some hopes that if enough complaining is done here you will make an effort to improve the game through patches, making it into something I could enjoy devoting some time to. I would rather keep complaining until I see that progress rather than simply give up and go away as SMK has stated his preference for. After all, it is the squeaky wheel that gets greased!

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 7/26/2007 4:16:28 PM >

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Post #: 64

RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/27/2007 11:21:54 PM

mavraamides

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
...a single coprs in each port city, a garrison in each inland city and 4 high tech level fighters in France, the AI has failed to mount ANY invasions.

You don't even need that. I usually get away with a garrison in every port and leave all the cities open. As long as I have even 2 corps within rail range of any coast I can easily hold off an invasion with just that against the AI. You just ravage the landing craft before they disembark with air and rail a couple healthy corps over to the trouble area to clean up the mess.

The problem I have with the AI is it only sends 1 or 2 units at the coast at a time. It should stockpile at least 8 or 10 and send them all at once. If it loses half to air/sea attack it should still have enough left over to take 1 port city. Then it could become an issue because they would be in supply. Now THAT's when having 5-7 sub units could really help. Because as the AI is forming up for the invasion, subs could be hammering away at the troop transports before they even reach the coast of France.

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Post #: 65

RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/28/2007 5:10:00 PM

Boar

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From: Alabama, USA
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While some of these comments are helpful, most of them are harping on the same issue and focusing on some kind of complaint about PBEM.

What I want to know (and maybe I'm blind, but didn't see in the patch notes) before I install this patch,
using these criteria: Is it a bug, or is it fixed in the patch?

1. Disappearing units around Nova Scotia -- if you have a until adjacent to the "out of play" island they become sucked into a void and/or are paralyzed
in movement.

2. Frozen convoys -- on invading America I've found some frozen and unattackable convoys remain cluttering up the seaboard --- they say they're UK ships.

3. Playable area in America/Canada -- do others have trouble playing on what are basically half-hexes? This part of the map needs some work.

4. Is there an "Undo" implemented for spending resources? I don't know how many times I've mistaken one unit for another and get a negative bank balance (also true in RL). This needs some kind of fix.

5. The odds panel is cool, but there should be a range finder like for movement. It's hard to tell how far your unit will strike (air units) and it's often hard to figure out how some results come about.

6. It would be really nice to have some indication of which units have moved! We have this with the upgrade and the repair mode, but in regular movement mode it's hard to tell how many of those hundred units have moved.

7. Great game -- I've enjoyed this the most since, well, SC, but more options would be fantastic for "what if" scenarios -- What if Siberian troops can't reach Moscow? What if the U.S. decides to remain neutral. Etc.

Thanks

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/28/2007 10:37:16 PM

targul

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Game is called Commander Europe at War not America at war. So playing in what are basically holding areas shouldnt be very convinient.

I know they have it on there victory but they shouldnt unless they really do want to give space and the number of units American can produce available.

I would find it a real hoax to think that one or corps could invade the US and be successful. Could they land maybe could they be resupplied. Very doubtful. Could they survive nope.

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Hell no I want to kill something!

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Post #: 67

RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/28/2007 11:19:07 PM

Boar

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Your reply has nothing to do with what I'm asking. Basically it's difficult playing there simply because it's hard to select units and the hexes are hard to see.

I'm asking, is there a way to get more functionality out of what's there already?

Another "bug" or simply a display problem -- when a country exceeds a certain amount of a resource, or strategic resource points, the display reads "999."
Can't this display the actual number when moused over, or something like that?

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/29/2007 12:20:38 AM

Chris Bisson

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I believe if you go into your build screen it will display the actual amount of points you have to spend when the main screen display reads 999 for rescources. I know I saw it and I think it is there.

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Post #: 69

RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/29/2007 12:47:02 AM

Bossy573

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What needs to happen to get Britain to surrender or at least abandon the British Isles for Canada? I conquered the entire British Isles save Scapa Flow and still had to deal with a garrison and naval units up there.

Someone here stated this is a great game with unbelievable potential. After playing my first game (as a break from GOA, which I've been playing continuously for almost a week) I agree with this assessment. Really neat game.

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/29/2007 1:16:17 AM

TheHellPatrol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bossy573

What needs to happen to get Britain to surrender or at least abandon the British Isles for Canada? I conquered the entire British Isles save Scapa Flow and still had to deal with a garrison and naval units up there.

Ottawa, you gotta take Ottawa. It threw me my first game but the Brits fall back to Canada.

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/29/2007 1:18:29 AM

TheHellPatrol

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Oops, nevermind.

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/29/2007 2:00:33 AM

Bossy573

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHellPatrol
Ottawa, you gotta take Ottawa. It threw me my first game but the Brits fall back to Canada.

Why would the game leave Scapa Flow garrisoned and a fleet up there with Germans in control of the entire country? Further, the AI continued to provision both the fleet and the garrison even though the Luftwaffe had total air supremacy. Provisioning and re-enforcing from what? Seems like that could be improved or maybe I didn't trigger an event somewhere.

< Message edited by Bossy573 -- 7/29/2007 2:01:38 AM >

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/29/2007 2:39:53 AM

TheHellPatrol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bossy573

Why would the game leave Scapa Flow garrisoned and a fleet up there with Germans in control of the entire country? Further, the AI continued to provision both the fleet and the garrison even though the Luftwaffe had total air supremacy. Provisioning and re-enforcing from what? Seems like that could be improved or maybe I didn't trigger an event somewhere.

Silly if you ask me but then, why would the ai just sit there when my one rogue Panzer unit conquers all Northern Africa?

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/29/2007 2:50:38 AM

Bossy573

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHellPatrol

Silly if you ask me but then, why would the ai just sit there when my one rogue Panzer unit conquers all Northern Africa?

Yup, I sent every Italian I could muster plus a 2 German units and ran roughshod over the place. Conquered Beruit and Iraq. But then again, playing with the oil consumption rule on I REALLY needed that oil in Iraq. I quickly found out I had to 1. produce a lot more foot soldiers and less armor and motorized units and 2. pick my spots for offensives. That is a fantastic and welcome addition to the genre and adds a REAL nice touch of realism. I just gave up the ghost on my first game because I violated all the rules above and didn't have the fuel to contest the Russians in the east.

Keep patching this one guys. There is an absolute classic waiting to emerge.

< Message edited by Bossy573 -- 7/29/2007 2:53:38 AM >

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/29/2007 5:31:20 AM

Bigfish

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quote:

Why would the game leave Scapa Flow garrisoned and a fleet up there with Germans in control of the entire country? Further, the AI continued to provision both the fleet and the garrison even though the Luftwaffe had total air supremacy. Provisioning and re-enforcing from what? Seems like that could be improved or maybe I didn't trigger an event somewhere.

But exactly this happens : http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1524927

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/29/2007 7:25:19 AM

Ancient One

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From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bossy573

What needs to happen to get Britain to surrender or at least abandon the British Isles for Canada? I conquered the entire British Isles save Scapa Flow and still had to deal with a garrison and naval units up there.

Someone here stated this is a great game with unbelievable potential. After playing my first game (as a break from GOA, which I've been playing continuously for almost a week) I agree with this assessment. Really neat game.

Why should the British units surrender everywhere else just because the government moves to Canada? They are still at war.

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/29/2007 7:34:49 AM

Bossy573

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zagys
Why should the British units surrender everywhere else just because the government moves to Canada? They are still at war.

I agree. That's why the government would carry on from overseas. I guess what I'm saying is there is no way the British Navy hangs on at Scapa Flow when I have an enormous Airforce based in the British Isles and the British have no air cover and no possible lifeline anywhere under such circumstances. The Luftwaffe would have made short work of the RN. Yet, the units are continually built up again. Just an annoying quirk.

The good news is the oil restriction basically forced me into an offensive in southern Russia in 1942. Very cool.

Second game I've ever played. Late 1942, the Allies have invaded France, The Ruskies are launching a counter-attack on Moscow and progress in the Caucuses is very slow. I took Egypt but am bogged down before Beruit. It is all up in the air and the game is an absolute hoot.

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/29/2007 3:50:38 PM

Bossy573

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Question: How exactly does a leader unit work? Is it similar to a HQ unit in SC2? The manual states it influences nearby units but doesn't clarify how many or at what range.
Also, I haven't tried it yet but can you attach a leader unit to air units? Does a ground leader unit affect air units as well?

The manual states that industrial advances improve oil availability/ consumption? How and what is the exact benefit? I would suggest a patch include an Axis path to synthetic fuel production at a cost to investment elsewhere. Might give the game a few more strategic options.

Thanks in advance!

< Message edited by Bossy573 -- 7/29/2007 3:52:46 PM >

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/29/2007 5:52:48 PM

Boar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoon Crusher

I believe if you go into your build screen it will display the actual amount of points you have to spend when the main screen display reads 999 for rescources.

Thanks -- also I've noticed that units that have "moved" blink! Doh!

One other bug/or thing I don't understand -- how in the hey do you conquer Algeria? In my fantasy game as the Germans I drove all over Africa seeking to find the last hex to make them capitualte -- never happened.

As others have said, this game has great potential and is pretty unique in certain areas. The oil consumption rule makes for a completely different game, but also needs some tempering, as it's pretty devastating to the Axis.

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/30/2007 4:20:27 PM

Vypuero

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Yeah algeria doesnt capitulate - just take the cities and ignore the rest of it

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RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/31/2007 3:16:23 AM

IrishGuards

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Thx
IDG

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Post #: 82

RE: Looks like the Patch is out - first impressions? - 7/31/2007 3:24:19 AM

Bossy573

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Boar
The oil consumption rule makes for a completely different game, but also needs some tempering, as it's pretty devastating to the Axis.

Agreed. There doesn't seem to be a balance. I conquered every Oil producing hex on the map and every one of the Allies were running at 999 oil while the Axis continued to scrape and conserve. I can buy the U.S.A having an almost bottomless supply but what if the German navy is successful in the Atlantic? Shouldn't oil availability in Great Britain suffer? Shouldn't the Allied commitments around the globe and even domestically be considered?

All that said, I was amazed to be going into 1942 (playing the Axis) and having to choose between Central Russia and Southern Russia for an offensive. I can't remember playing a game which, on its own, mirrored the exact choice available to the Axis at the time and me then making the same choice as the Germans did. It would have been really, really, REALLY cool to have had the Russians build up at Stalingrad as a counter to my drive into the Caucuses. But I don't want to get greedy about it......

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