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OT:Not to - 8/2/2007 2:12:33 PM   
captskillet


Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Louisiana & the 2007 Nat Champ LSU Fightin' Tigers
Status: offline 		make light of a terrible situation but I guess I need to start wearing my Mae West when driving over any bridges spanning rivers or lakes .

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RE: OT:Not to - 8/2/2007 2:23:38 PM   
rtrapasso


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: captskillet

make light of a terrible situation but I guess I need to start wearing my Mae West when driving over any bridges spanning rivers or lakes .


oh, is that what you are doing in your avatar??


< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 8/2/2007 2:24:48 PM >

(in reply to captskillet)
Post #: 2
RE: OT:Not to - 8/2/2007 3:37:46 PM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline 		The sad thing is that the State may be immune from lawsuits over the whole thing. In NJ if your car is damaged by a pothole the town/county/state is not liable unless they were already informed about it and failed to take action. Failing to take action without being told first is not enough to make them liable.

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Post #: 3
RE: OT:Not to - 8/2/2007 4:27:21 PM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		In California, you have to get permission from the state in order to sue the state.  Talking about a conflict of interest.

And if there is a known design flaw in something the state builds, the state is immune from lawsuit from that flaw as long as the state knows about the flaw.  The idea is that it is impossible to build something completely perfect and that doing so would cost more than it is worth so the state only has to make things safe up to a point.  The only way around this is if the design flaw is grossly negligent or if it is a maintanence issue.

(in reply to RUPD3658)
Post #: 4
RE: OT:Not to - 8/2/2007 4:34:48 PM   
captskillet


Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Louisiana & the 2007 Nat Champ LSU Fightin' Tigers
Status: offline 		I've already heard reports that (in 2001 ?) an inspection revealed some flaws in the approach spans...........now I'm not an engineer by any means but if an approach span gave would that not tend to creat a domino effect...............evidently something was amiss and it would be hard not to assume that the current construction on the span didn't affect it somehow................. anyways its sad and scary to think what was going thru those folks mind that were on it when it gave way!

< Message edited by captskillet -- 8/2/2007 4:36:07 PM >

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RE: OT:Not to - 8/2/2007 5:28:09 PM   
Charbroiled


Posts: 1181
Joined: 10/15/2004
From: Oregon
Status: offline 		My understanding was that the bridge was having repairs done to it when it fell. Some worker probably removed the "god-nut".

(in reply to captskillet)
Post #: 6
RE: OT:Not to - 8/2/2007 5:29:51 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		That can certainly happen. Occurred (on a much smaller scale) in my town a few years ago. A building was being renovated, and then the entire front just suddenly fell off for no apparent reason.

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RE: OT:Not to - 8/2/2007 5:58:06 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Sovereign immunity is a beautiful thing . . . if you're the sovereign.

Edited for crimes against spelling.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 8
RE: OT:Not to - 8/2/2007 8:06:54 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Public Works Project build by the lowest bidder.

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Post #: 9
RE: OT:Not to - 8/2/2007 8:28:32 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		I live in Minneapolis. They put some sort of electric de-icing thing into that bridge back in 2001. I wouldnt be at all surprised if that has something to do with it.

A few years back (15? +/-) a bridge not far from there also "fell down" while under repair. Was on Lake street going over a rail road line.

There are only a handful of bridges over the Mississippi (and only a few more over the Minnesota river). 6 lane 694 in the far north, Lowry ave (2 lanes), Broadway (2 lanes), the one by the post office (I forget the name 4 lanes), 35W (MIA now, was 8 lanes), 10th street (which is actually for the U of M not intended for heavy traffic 4 lanes) and 94 (6 lanes). We just lost 25% of the available traffic flow from east to west. And of the remainder, only 694 and 94 are intended for high speed traffic. The rest is through basically resadentual areas.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 8/2/2007 8:30:02 PM >

(in reply to panda124c)
Post #: 10
RE: OT:Not to - 8/2/2007 8:53:54 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Yamato, I lived in Rochester for 5 years and I've probably crossed that bridge a dozen times.  My second thought, right after those injured or killed, was how a "bad" commute into and out of downtown Minneapolis will become a "nightmare" for more than the next year. 

The new recommended commuter car for the Twin Cities:   

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(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 11
RE: OT:Not to - 8/2/2007 11:54:07 PM   
captskillet


Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Louisiana & the 2007 Nat Champ LSU Fightin' Tigers
Status: offline 		Yamato and some of you guys from up that way educate me.................all the bridges over the river down this way are huge pilings and massive steel upperstructure (Vicksburg I-20, Baton Rouge & New Orleans I-10) ................I noticed there were no pilings in the river bed on that one.....is it because of the narrowness of the river (compared to down here) and possibly blocking barge traffic????

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RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 12:41:32 AM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		My prayers are for the people (and their families) who were killed

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RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 12:41:59 AM   
BrucePowers


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Status: offline 		By the way, hi Cap.

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Post #: 14
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 12:44:56 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

is it because of the narrowness of the river (compared to down here) and possibly blocking barge traffic????


Wouldn't have anything to do with barges I don't think. One of the photos of the bridge shows a small dam about 300yds north(?) of the bridge.

Chez

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RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 12:53:10 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		St Anthony falls lock and dam is just north of that bridge, and yes, silly as it sounds, they didnt put pilings in the river because of barge traffic. Barges used to hit the old bridge all the time.

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 16
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 12:55:00 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

St Anthony falls lock and dam is just north of that bridge


So the dam was built after the bridge was built?

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 17
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 12:58:05 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		No, that dam has been there forever. Thats actually a waterfall they made into a dam. Was part of the original grain mills back in 1851 or thereabouts.

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 18
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 1:18:22 AM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

St Anthony falls lock and dam is just north of that bridge, and yes, silly as it sounds, they didnt put pilings in the river because of barge traffic. Barges used to hit the old bridge all the time.


Bridge designers worry about barges (they keep going in things like fog). It was a barge that took out the Sunshine Skyway bridge over the entrance to Tampa Bay in the 1980's killing a lot of people.

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 19
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 1:41:03 AM   
captskillet


Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Louisiana & the 2007 Nat Champ LSU Fightin' Tigers
Status: offline 		thats why I assumed that.......by the time you get to Vicksburg & points south the river is a mile wide (or more) so there's room for pilings w/steel overhead supports (seems to my feeble mind much more stout) and room for barges (and from Baton Rouge south ocean going ships...that bridge in BR is way high over the river) to pass.

PS.............whats up Mr Peabody????? where we goin tonite?????

< Message edited by captskillet -- 8/3/2007 1:43:22 AM >

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Post #: 20
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 2:15:02 AM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		The new Sunshine Skyway has a lot of rip rap around the pilings to protect them. Rip rap is a very useful material around bridge pilings. It is rock (usually very large pieces) of uniform size. The size is determined by the engineer and is carefully selected for the setting. It is placed around the pilings and it protects them from flooding (excessively high currents can wash out a piling) and impacts from boats, floating debris, etc.

< Message edited by BrucePowers -- 8/3/2007 2:16:18 AM >

(in reply to captskillet)
Post #: 21
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 2:17:03 AM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: captskillet

thats why I assumed that.......by the time you get to Vicksburg & points south the river is a mile wide (or more) so there's room for pilings w/steel overhead supports (seems to my feeble mind much more stout) and room for barges (and from Baton Rouge south ocean going ships...that bridge in BR is way high over the river) to pass.

PS.............whats up Mr Peabody????? where we goin tonite?????


Hopefully to the space station next Tuesday, if the weather doesn't get us

< Message edited by BrucePowers -- 8/3/2007 2:18:40 AM >

(in reply to BrucePowers)
Post #: 22
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 2:43:32 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

The new Sunshine Skyway has a lot of rip rap around the pilings to protect them. Rip rap is a very useful material around bridge pilings. It is rock (usually very large pieces) of uniform size. The size is determined by the engineer and is carefully selected for the setting. It is placed around the pilings and it protects them from flooding (excessively high currents can wash out a piling) and impacts from boats, floating debris, etc.


There isnt room in the Mississippi up here for all that. Its only 9 feet deep and about 400 feet wide.

(in reply to BrucePowers)
Post #: 23
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 3:16:57 AM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		Ahhh....................The Sunshine Skyway is 29,040 feet long

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 24
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 3:28:34 AM   
captskillet


Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Louisiana & the 2007 Nat Champ LSU Fightin' Tigers
Status: offline 		Ponchartrain Causeway is 26 miles long...................of course the Lake isnt as deep as Tampa Bay either!!!!

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"Git thar fust with the most men" - Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest


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Post #: 25
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 3:31:50 AM   
Knavey

 

Posts: 3052
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
Status: offline 		I used that Ponchartrain Causeway to evac from New Orleans when Hurricane Georges blew through.  Got me out of a 10 hour traffic jam when they opened it up.  Didn't even charge us tolls that day. 

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Post #: 26
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 5:20:15 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
quote:

It is placed around the pilings and it protects them from flooding (excessively high currents can wash out a piling) and impacts from boats, floating debris, etc.


And given the fact that a big freighter knocked down Skyway version #1, that whole "impacts from boats" is pretty important to safeguard against!  (but as I recall, it got bashed by a barge about 4 years ago as well).

-F-

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Post #: 27
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 6:44:41 AM   
tanksone


Posts: 390
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: St Paul, Mn.
Status: offline 		Hi, worse part is that there are bridges in even sadder shape. I was at home when it came down and got a heads up from work. The company that I work for ships most of the hospital supplies in the twin cities. Needless to say I was  scrambling my drivers to be on standby in case the hospitals started screaming for resupply. As bad as this was it could have been a lot more tragic. I still shake my head at how many times that I cross that bridge in a week.




(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 28
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 6:51:43 AM   
grumpyman


Posts: 105
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		I did a motorcycle trip to California earlier this year. On the way back I crossed the Oakland bay bridge, lower level. While crossing I was wondering if I was on the bridge that that colapsed during the '86 earthquake. When I got back to Chicago I learned that there was a truck accident on that bridge and the upper level collapsed. I now do not like crossing big bridges. Irrational, I know.

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Post #: 29
RE: OT:Not to - 8/3/2007 7:13:25 AM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

quote:

It is placed around the pilings and it protects them from flooding (excessively high currents can wash out a piling) and impacts from boats, floating debris, etc.


And given the fact that a big freighter knocked down Skyway version #1, that whole "impacts from boats" is pretty important to safeguard against!  (but as I recall, it got bashed by a barge about 4 years ago as well).

-F-


Yes, but the new bridge has been designed to handle such hits (well the pilings have. There is a better barrier there now.

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 30
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