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RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 3:33:13 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline 		Cool. So you *can* save quite a few Dutch base forces after all then. There's a few that would make pretty nice forward bases atleast.

As always, thanks for the replies.

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 1561
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 5:28:55 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline 		This is another question that was brought up years ago while development was going on (somewhere back in this thread ) and Andy replied how they wanted it to be in AE, but I just wanted to check to see how this *should* be working in AE, so if something else happens I know that it is not WAD.

With regards to rebuilding a unit, what happens when a sub unit is destroyed? What about an editor sub unit?

To be more specific, let me use three specific examples:

1. MANUALLY SPLIT: I take the 41st Infantry Division and manually split it into its three regiments: /A, /B and /C. I use them for defense on three different islands. One islands falls, and regiment /C is totally destroyed. In vanilla WitP, you were now indefinately stuck with the division being stuck split into two regiments, with no way to recombine them; ie. regiment /C is lost forever and the division will never be rebuilt. But what will happen in AE? Would I be able to recombine /A and /B to get back the 41st Infantry Division (obviously, initially at 2/3 strength due to the loss of the regiment)? So then over time I would be able to bring in replacements and essentially rebuild regiment /C?

2. EDITOR SUB UNITS - WHOLE UNITS: The start of the war goes poorly and Andy's AI totally destroys both the 22nd and 27th Australian Bde's in Malaya (6639 and 6644), and the Lark Bn on Rabual (6007). But, both the Sparrow and Gull Bn's (6005 and 6006) are safe in Darwin. Would I have the option to combine the last surviving editor sub-units into the 8th Australian Div (5981)?

3. EDITOR SUB UNITS - ONE SQUAD: Pulling a vanilla WitP classic, I withdraw a single support squad via a sub from the Kendari Base Force (5927). Outside of this one squad, the rest of the base force is destroyed, along with the other editor sub-units of Makassar Base Force (5928) and Manado Base Force (5929). So the only surviving unit of the primary unit, Celebes Base Force (5926), is this one squad from one editor sub-unit. Will I be able to rebuild the *entire* primary (ie. Celebes Base Force) unit from this one squad?

I know I ask random questions, but I have been looking into what it takes to pull a mini Brave Sir Robin and how aggressive you can be with both manual and editor sub units without risking loosing the entire unit, like you would in vanilla WitP.

Thanks again for all the answers!

Chad

(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 1562
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 7:35:22 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

BUT unlike stock you no longer have the squads or devices to do so.

Rebuilding an Australian Div from a Bn will leave you with no reserves and no ability to take combat losses and will cripple the upgrade programme for the CMF troops.

You can do it it is a valid choice just dont expect to take casualties in your primary formations

(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 1563
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 7:38:07 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

BUT unlike stock you no longer have the squads or devices to do so.

Rebuilding an Australian Div from a Bn will leave you with no reserves and no ability to take combat losses and will cripple the upgrade programme for the CMF troops.

You can do it it is a valid choice just dont expect to take casualties in your primary formations



Thanks for the reply Andy. Obviously this is all independent of actually having the devices available. As you pointed out, rebuilding a division form one squad takes a lot of stuff But if someone wants to do so, they can.

As always, thanks for the reply.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1564
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 7:40:11 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Its important to understand that in many cases the devices simply dont exist.

end dates on device production mean that it is very very hard to rebuild units now without knock on consequences.

its one area the Japanese have an advantage in

(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 1565
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 7:50:38 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline 		But things like aviation support, support, naval support, engineers, engineer vehicles and so on are available in huge quantities. So you can't rebuild that Dutch base force with AA, CD or infantry assets, but it can be easily and quickly rebuilt with all the support elements.

Dont get me wrong, the last thing we need is 'Dutch Aviation Support' and 'USN Aviation Support', but this is a minor loophole because those types of units are available to all.

But as you pointed out, the Japanese are not limited by this and can build unlimited quantities of nearly anything as long as the resources are available. The Allies having atleast relatively similar capabilities with the support troops is a needed balance and *should not* be changed.

< Message edited by Chad Harrison -- 8/14/2009 7:53:19 PM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1566
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 7:59:33 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I disagree if I had been able to come up with a way to get seperate Allied support and av support devices for the Dutch to kill that behaviour i would.

As it is a lot of them cannot be evacced.

In this case the allies SHOULD be more retricted than the japaese

(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 1567
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 8:25:56 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline 		Nooooo! What have I done! Im giving him more ideas!

If it were a separate device, it would end that habit in a hurry and actually kill Brave Sir Robin entirely. But for the time being, as long as a unit has no withdraw date, is not 'locked' into a restricted command and has lots of 'universal devices' (such as support, or aviation support, or my new favorite: naval support), it is worth getting a fragment out and rebuilding. Whether the unit to be rescued is US, British, Indian or Dutch doesnt matter: I can always find a use for more aviation support

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1568
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 8:39:31 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes



After your reply, I realized that this can easily be tested in a smaller scenario. So I fired up GuadMod to try it out. From my very limited testing, I can confirm that both 2 and 3 are working as described above. However, I can not get 1 to work. As far as I know, something like this is hard coded and not scenario independent. So whatever happens in GuadMod would be represenative of Scen 1 - atleast as far as I know.

In other words, as far as I can tell, its working the same as it used to in vanilla WitP and is not WAD.

Let me be specific to what I did. As the Allies, I combined the 1st and 3rd Australian, and the 32nd US divisons at Brisbane. Now that I had full units, I divided each into its /A, /B and /C regiments. The screenshot below shows what each 'Unit Organization' window looked like:






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1569
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 8:50:08 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline 		To continue from above, as can be seen, the 32nd USA Div had an extra regiment not in play, so I was curious what would happen with both manual sub units and editor sub units. So I loaded the /C regiment from each division and put them all in TF 1, as can been seen.

Then I did an old vanilla WitP trick for the 3rd Australian Division: I made a /C regiment 'backup' by leaving some troops behind incase things went poorly. In vanilla WitP, this would allow me to rebuild the division if the rest of the /C regiment was destroyed. Per my questions above, this should not be needed in AE.

I then sailed the TF to Rabual and the uber-Betty's took care of them. The screenshot below shows the results to each organization.

Despite the intended design, neither the 1st Australian Div or 32nd USA Div could be recombined. I could only rebuild the 3rd Australian Division, and that was only because of my 'backup' element that became the /C regiment when the main element of the regiment was destroyed.

So, has anyone else noticed this? Is there any reason that this would happen in GuadMod and not in the Grand Campaign?

Thanks in advance.

Chad




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 1570
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 8:52:36 PM   
medicff

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 9/11/2004
From: WPB, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

Nooooo! What have I done! Im giving him more ideas!

If it were a separate device, it would end that habit in a hurry and actually kill Brave Sir Robin entirely. But for the time being, as long as a unit has no withdraw date, is not 'locked' into a restricted command and has lots of 'universal devices' (such as support, or aviation support, or my new favorite: naval support), it is worth getting a fragment out and rebuilding. Whether the unit to be rescued is US, British, Indian or Dutch doesnt matter: I can always find a use for more aviation support


I concur with Andy re building whole dutch base forces to get support/av/engineers however it is quite feasible to get a few crucial whole/mostly whole units out aka sir robin and still fill out those with replacements to get some extra engineer forces.

I find I don't have enough av and engineer to even fill out whats coming on the board (albeit still very early) however I have tons of naval support and the units looking for replacements pull them very slowly in small amounts 1-4 squads even though asking for 200 and 1000 available. Andy is this WAD?


(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 1571
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 9:21:45 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		I must have stepped into a conversation midway through it; every Dutch unit I've seen has been restricted and not possible to evacuate.  Which ones are unrestricted and can be moved?

Also, I have found a bug.  I managed to evacuate a significant portion of the base unit at Bataan that was not restricted down to Darwin before that base surrendered.  When it surrendered, however, the portion at Darwin did too and the unit fragment has vanished!  Did the US troops in Darwin just parole themselves as they did in the Civil War?

I've got a fragment still on a sub transport that did not surrender (now THAT would have been interesting), and it's going to unload next turn.  I'll be interested to see what happens to it.

(in reply to medicff)
Post #: 1572
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 10:07:58 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Chad I rechecked my factys and it is WAD /A/B/C's will not allow you to recombine I will put it on th elist to get looked at

John thats a bug do you have the before and after save please

Send to a.mcphie@btinternet.com

(in reply to John Lansford)
Post #: 1573
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 10:39:23 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Previously posted this in the wrong thread:

quote:

The following HQ units have "No TOE Available":

slot 153 - IX US Corps
slot 121 - III US Corps
slot 120 - Alaska Defense Cmd

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1574
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 10:58:41 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Chad I rechecked my factys and it is WAD /A/B/C's will not allow you to recombine I will put it on th elist to get looked at

John thats a bug do you have the before and after save please

Send to a.mcphie@btinternet.com



Andy, I've got the automatic gamesave file from the end of that turn but the only save I've got before this is several turns prior. I don't save every turn prior to running it, unfortunately. I'll send both of those to you if it would help.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1575
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 11:49:59 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Chad I rechecked my factys and it is WAD /A/B/C's will not allow you to recombine I will put it on th elist to get looked at



Cool, glad I could help point it out.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1576
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/14/2009 11:56:09 PM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Previously posted this in the wrong thread:

quote:

The following HQ units have "No TOE Available":

slot 153 - IX US Corps
slot 121 - III US Corps
slot 120 - Alaska Defense Cmd



Thanks. That's a known glitch -- to be patched, but shouldn't affect game play. (The TOE-less HQs still arrive in game with their assigned support squads)

_____________________________

WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 1577
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/15/2009 12:08:09 AM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		Andy,

I've sent you the save game files before and after the surrender took place.

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 1578
RE: AI & Wake Island - 8/15/2009 12:53:14 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		I was going to ask about 5th British Div in Mombasa...but decided to check myself from books and net why it's permanently restricted. It's clear now.




_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to John Lansford)
Post #: 1579
sort on EXP rating for land units - 8/15/2009 8:16:26 AM   
1EyedJacks


Posts: 2244
Joined: 3/12/2006
From: The Eastern Sierras
Status: offline 		Is there any way to do a sort of the ground units by EXP? That way I'd know which units are below the table for Japanese Army/Navy max level (55/50) of training as listed on pg 187 and set them up with a Future Objective so I can bump their EXP rating up.

TTFN,

Mike

_____________________________

TTFN,

Mike

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 1580
Potential bug or at least a cheat - 8/15/2009 12:54:01 PM   
PeteG662


Posts: 1263
Joined: 6/7/2004
Status: offline 		When playing the game I noticed there is a cheat/potential bug that I wanted to highlight for the land team.

When using strategic movement mode and all the sub units of a larger unit arrive in a base and you wish to merge them all into the parent unit, if you change from strategic mode to combat mode it will give you a certain timeframe for conversion, however if you change them all to combat mode and then cobine the unit, there is no conversion time, they are automatically in combat mode.

Pete

(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 1581
RE: Potential bug or at least a cheat - 8/15/2009 6:15:23 PM   
bush

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: san jose, ca
Status: offline 		Blackhorse,

I was interested in your comment the other day about MG Upshur. Found out he died in '43 in a plane crash!

Also, although I know that leader ratings are HIGHLY subjective, (and my opinions are constantly being tweaked after every book I read), I can't believe the comparitively low land rating for J. Lawton Collins. Anything I have ever read seems to indicate he was one of the very best of the American commanders. Seems like he got short-changed here.

(in reply to PeteG662)
Post #: 1582
RE: Potential bug or at least a cheat - 8/15/2009 6:50:41 PM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

Blackhorse,

I was interested in your comment the other day about MG Upshur. Found out he died in '43 in a plane crash!

Also, although I know that leader ratings are HIGHLY subjective, (and my opinions are constantly being tweaked after every book I read), I can't believe the comparitively low land rating for J. Lawton Collins. Anything I have ever read seems to indicate he was one of the very best of the American commanders. Seems like he got short-changed here.


"Lightning Joe's" ratings are meant to be among the best of the early-war US Army commanders. He's solid across-the-board with no real weaknesses. (Skill 63, Inspiration 72, Land 65, Admin 70, Agg 60). And some of those ratings will go up through 3 1/2 years of war.

In AE, the Allies catch a couple of breaks with him -- IRL, he left in 1943 to command a Corps in Europe, where he made his name as a great commander, and only returned to the PTO to prepare for the invasion of Japan. In AE, leaders can't "withdraw", so the allies are "stuck" with J.Lawton for the duration.

WitP lacks a promotion model. Collins was a Colonel when the war began, but he is rated a LTG and a HQ-level commander, because he rose to that rank during the war. So if you ever remove Collins from command of the 25th Infantry Division, you can assign him to command of a HQ unit. Conversely, if Collins is removed from the 25th, you can never re-assign him to lead another LCU -- because the game model allows us to designate leaders to command HQs or LCUs, but not both.

. . . like you, my opinions change as I read. I recently finished David Halberstam's "The Coldest Winter" about the Korean War -- and Matthew Ridgway emerges as the hero of that story.

. . . and I'm definitely interested in more feedback about leader ratings in AE.


_____________________________

WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to bush)
Post #: 1583
View Armies on Strategic Map - 8/15/2009 10:34:34 PM   
1EyedJacks


Posts: 2244
Joined: 3/12/2006
From: The Eastern Sierras
Status: offline 		Is there a way for the Strategic Map to show all Japanese Japanese Armies like the 23rd Army and the RGC Army? It would be very nice to see wher all units attached to an army are at on the Strategic Map.


TTFN,

Mike Barrett

_____________________________

TTFN,

Mike

(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 1584
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 8/16/2009 4:36:52 AM   
sanch

 

Posts: 421
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline 		GC: Should the Chinese 18th Group Army be a Command HQ? I would think it should be a Corps HQ as are the other Chinese Group Army's.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1585
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 8/16/2009 10:29:42 AM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		I dont know if this falls within AI or Air Issue - I am wondering if it is one of the "AI cheats"
Guadalcanal Scenario, version 1.0.0.1080

In just 14 days AI managed to obtain 134 B-25C Mitchell with replacement rate of 20.




PS: What means Month toDate column? I havent found reference on this screen in Manual

Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to sanch)
Post #: 1586
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 8/16/2009 12:03:48 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Please don't try to analyse the AI production

You know I am not going to answer any questions.....

(in reply to Barb)
Post #: 1587
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 8/16/2009 4:02:06 PM   
Montbrun


Posts: 1498
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline 		The British 70th Division has no Infantry Squads in it's OoB. I confirmed this in the editor. Is this intended?

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1588
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 8/16/2009 4:34:41 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Yes its the HQ for the 3 Bdes that convert to Chindits - it has the Divisonal assets that are later disbanded when the Bdes convert to Chindits

(in reply to Montbrun)
Post #: 1589
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 8/17/2009 3:30:31 AM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 614
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Should USA Engineer Sqds have a start production of 99/99? Should it not be 41/12?

< Message edited by rjopel -- 8/17/2009 3:35:32 AM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 1590
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