RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel?

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RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/27/2007 2:08:25 AM

sstevens06

Posts: 276
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick
...
If the cat jumps on the keyboard, the counters will bounce realistically off the floor.
...

Boy does that bring back memories...and not good ones either! Bad, BAD Kitty...

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 31

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/27/2007 2:53:45 AM

DeadInThrench

Posts: 318
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: NE Pennsylvania, USA
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If a download patch is just fixes... it should for free.

But, if there are significant enhancements, then there should be a charge.... 10 bucks, 20 or more depending on the extent of the enhancements (but, the sold version of the game should then include those enhancements so that those that buy the game new do not have to pay twice).

Then, once you get enough of the enhancements you re-release the game as TOAW4, with the latest patch to bringing the last TOAW3 up to TOAW4 being available like the previous patches.

If there is not regular income coming in for enhancements being developed, then that is missing motivation for so developing them! Hey, Ralph deserves fair compensation for the work he is doing (as long as it isn't the 3D graphics, etc <g>) just like everyone else!

There is commercial opportunity here that is not being taken advantage of!

Hey, I want that chain-of-command enhancement NOW <g>... and am willing to pay a fair price for it!

The world isn't the same place it was when computer wargaming first started, and those that play these games now want the ongoing enhancements (and are willing to pay for them... hehe... ignore those that aren't <g>), and the means of delivering them is now there via the Internet.

One can only wonder when Matrix and other publishers are gonna wake up to this and stop giving enhancements away for free.... or just not bothering to do them.

DiT

P.S. Really, if developers are not getting the compensation for the enhancements they are working on, then there isn't any motivation to so do them.

P.S.2. Am I getting this point across to Matrix? Possibly I should post in another forum or send an email or... letter??

(in reply to macgregor)

Post #: 32

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/27/2007 6:45:39 AM

a white rabbit

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..mmmm, dunno about graphics being important, or Elmer's brain being increased..

..can we first sort out some of the basic gritches, sea power/movement, and supply spring to mind as two that need some serious looking at, and from a designer's point of view access during the game to all the primary settings then let's see how these affect things before we go playing some more...

..yahh, i'd like Elmer intervention in two player games, and given modern warfare it has to come, but can we get the historical stuff right first ?

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(in reply to DeadInThrench)

Post #: 33

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/27/2007 8:45:38 AM

macgregor

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I know, I know, I was the one who complained before TOAW 3 even came out. I bought TOAW 3 because I had faith that, as long as there was a dev team, there was hope. Though in changing over, one of my favorite scenarios; 'Countdown to Infamy' had been lost. Though I only liked it because it made a serious attempt at improving the naval results, which it could only do so much. I suppose it's not that big of a deal. So far, I've come to appreciate two things with the most recent patch; the zoom and the directional keys. The graphics have improved, but not that much. I don't use Elmer so I can't appreciate his improvement. I'm still of mixed feelings about the combat rule changes. I don't get battle reports during enemy moves. I've waited a long time, though I realize Matrix hasn't had the game all that time. I'm happy with the wishlist. But until I hear of something concrete, it's just wishes. I know there is an issue with wanting to change the game over to a new code language. These new languages are always improving, offering more options and better graphics, and probably more stability. I say do whatever it takes. But let me say again, if the essential improvements are not in the next release, I'm not paying for it. To be honest, I bought TOAW 3 for these improvements, and properly chastised Matrix for not providing them. I've bought at least 6 versions of TOAW, and if I was satisfied playing the Korean War enough, I'd be playing TOAW 1. Ralph wanting to improve the graphic reminds me of Michael Palin at the pet shop, 'lovely plumage'. I plead with Matrix because they're the only chance I have of getting the product I desire. But I have to say, as of yet, they have not delivered. Not to me anyway.

(in reply to a white rabbit)

Post #: 34

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/27/2007 2:53:22 PM

a white rabbit

Posts: 2366
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..fair does to Elmer, he does handle the tactical stuff better, doesn't play silly buggers with the HQs, does use ranged weaponry correctly and combat results, like retreats are more sensible..

..and that's just playing existing scens..

..but i still question if we're designing correctly, look at the thread on FITE and the difficulty to get civs accepted as part of a Russian TOE for 41/42, look at the complaints about ant-units when the dam' things shouldn't exist unless they did (( Indochine (French), Indochine part 2 ( USA/ Communists )) are two examples that spring to mind where they did..

..i really only design for my own learning, both of the game and a period i'm studying, so i managed a Cao Bang 1950 that worked but got torched by lightning, a France 1940, very small scale that i lost thru over-design and not keeping earlier copies, a Napoleon in the Pyramids before the BioEd (fun but not accurate), and i'm working on a BioEd Ancients, a Malaya 41, and a Philippines 41. Malaya's going fine, Ph has stalled cos the map's a bitch, and the Ancients just needs time i don't have for now, not with a valley to run..

..and i ask again, are we really designing correctly..

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(in reply to macgregor)

Post #: 35

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/27/2007 11:44:42 PM

berto

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I would appreciate the planned/hoped for graphics improvements, as ralphtrick described them, especially giving a modest 3D look to the terrain contours. Going beyond the described graphics improvements, though, is unnecessary, because TOAW plays just fine as an essentially 2D game.

What I'd most like to see is improved AI. I am tired of firing up scenarios of my favorite genre, WWII Pacific, only to read "AI? Don't even bother. This scenario is intended for head-to-head [PBEM, hot-seat, whatever] play only." What can I say? I am an unrepentant solitaire-only player, sorry.

Oh, and it would be nice, too, to enhance the naval game (given my fondness for WWII Pacific).

But, TOAW offers so much game value that I'll surely buy any expansion pack/upgrade/new version. IMO, if you basically like a game (I very much like TOAW), given the extremely high benefit-to-cost ratio--i.e., hours and hours and hours of entertainment at pennies per hour--shelling out for each new game version is, to me, a no-brainer. (That said, it is possible to run a game into the ground. Witness Warlords III -> Warlords IV.)

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(in reply to sstevens06)

Post #: 36

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/28/2007 5:21:54 PM

Curtis Lemay

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I'm quite certain that Ralph is talking about TOAW IV not TOAW III. TOAW IV is going to be built from scratch (not sure if I'm even permited to say that, in which case JAM may swoop in here and wack this thread - and then wack me). That means that even if he wanted TOAW IV to look EXACTLY like TOAW III all the code and graphics for that would still have to be generated from scratch. Why do that? If it's all going to be made from scratch why not move the look into the 21st century. Even if you don't care what it looks like you'll have to agree that everyone benefits if it makes TOAW IV more commercial (more $$ = more support).

Does that mean that TOAW IV will only differ from TOAW III in looks? Of course not!

Does that mean that Ralph will waste effort moving TOAW III's look up to that level? Again, of course not!

Is it true (as impuned in this thread) that all the changes to TOAW III so far have been superficial? Anyone who thinks that hasn't been reading the "What's New" documents. The vast majority of the changes have been bug fixes that plagued ACOW. It's true that many interface changes have been made because the interface is easy to change and has little risk of unexpected consequences - unlike changes to the game code itself.

But substantive changes to the game code have been made even so. We have 499 more event slots, we can edit & add equipment, flanking is more realistic, Flak can shoot down high altitude bombers, turn-burn attacks can be designer limited via MRPB, movement paths are now optimal, artillery's new Tactical Support mode rule, greater ranges for Force Movement Bias, Alternate Graphics (really can change the game - see my Numbers.bmp post elsewhere), weather improvements, improved PO, etc.

No one tries harder to focus Ralph on substantive changes than I do. And I'll continue to do so. But don't be cavalier about the effort or risks involved.

(in reply to berto)

Post #: 37

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/28/2007 6:56:12 PM

macgregor

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Let me add to my previous post that I am pleased with what Ralph has accomplished. My personal wishes, which to me seem somewhat essential , which I believe are well enough documented, have yet to be met. Is that being too harsh? They're effectively represented on the wishlist, which has some highly ambitious proposals in it. For which Ralph has almost never complained about the practicality. I almost wish he would. His discussing improving Elmer and the graphics should not bother me. I suppose it just makes me a little nervous, when I'd so much rather hear him add his ideas about how he plans to tackle(or not) some of the more ambitious proposals.

I don't believe it was this thread, but I did use the word 'superficial'. Forgive me, but for someone like myself, hell-bent on effectively representing theater-size scenarios with merely functional naval combat, let alone production or strategic warfare, the graphics and interface improvements, while greatly appreciated, are, in comparison, somewhat.

< Message edited by macgregor -- 12/28/2007 7:43:49 PM >

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)

Post #: 38

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/28/2007 7:20:42 PM

marcusm

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Just don't do the "MOO3" mistake and try to fix what isn't broken.

Or do what you like of course but if you want my purchase please don't break anything that
works. Btw. Even TOAW4 should have the ability to use single graphic maps instead of only tile based. 3D
or no 3D.

(in reply to macgregor)

Post #: 39

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/28/2007 9:07:53 PM

DeadInThrench

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'Cavalier'???? U must be kidding me.

As a programmer/engineer myself, it is a well known fact that those that do not know programming are in many cases incognizant and/or unappreciative of what it takes to get a programming app off the ground.

But, on the other hand, it is also a well known fact, that... programmers... oftentimes go off on academic or other paradigms that are not applicable to the situation at hand. 'Responsibility to the customer'... is not something that comes with a Computer Science degree.

And in this case.... 3D and continously zoomable... are not applicable to the situation at hand here, and given that, why do a rewrite when there are real customers out there with real needs??

Sounds to me that the team here picked the wrong Norm Koger game to upgrade. There are people ASKING for a redo of Age of Rifles in the General forums and Ralph's ideas would be perfect for a game like that and.... was a most popular game and and an upgrade would sell for sure.

Sheesh... first Horse and Musket and now TOAW. Was thinking about it and kinda reminded me of some infamous exploits of certain pitiful British <g> military commanders.

So, while Matrix comes off as totally professional as a publisher, who otherwise is running what is going on here?

Abercrombie??? (lol)

DiT

P.S. Actually Braddock would be a better example. Unlike Abercrombie, he was not an idiot. However, a matter of the wrong stuff in the wrong place at the wrong time, and he paid for it with the loss of his army and... his life.

P.S.2. Yeah, I can only wonder if I am gonna pay for my posts with the loss of my ID <g>.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)

Post #: 40

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/28/2007 10:48:18 PM

marcusm

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Would love to see a new Age of Rifles now that you mention it.
Yet another under-appreciated wargaming period.

(in reply to DeadInThrench)

Post #: 41

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 12:28:01 AM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeadInThrench
...
And in this case.... 3D and continously zoomable... are not applicable to the situation at hand here, and given that, why do a rewrite when there are real customers out there with real needs??

Sounds to me that the team here picked the wrong Norm Koger game to upgrade. There are people ASKING for a redo of Age of Rifles in the General forums and Ralph's ideas would be perfect for a game like that and.... was a most popular game and and an upgrade would sell for sure.
...
P.S.2. Yeah, I can only wonder if I am gonna pay for my posts with the loss of my ID <g>.

There are several reason to rewrite TOAW. One is that it was written 10 years ago in C. It was very well written, but difficult to maintain, adding things like multiple sides, would be impossible right now. Also, to get reasonable bahavior of the dialog boxes, etc. TOAW IV will need a total rewrite of the UI. If I'm doing that, then making it 3D isn't that hard. When I say 3D, I fully expect most people to play the game using the same settings they do now, and they won't notice any difference. The Top Down 2D model is a very good model for TOAW and my play style, so I'm not about to break that

. That's part of why I never took to Combat Mission, it doesn't really offer that view.

While pretty graphics are nice and may attract more people, the real reason that I want 3D is for more functional/usable graphics. I'm not talking about adding in Shader support, multiple light sources, flickering candles, etc. The initial 3D models will be of the counters.

At a technical level, the current 2D graphics make the CPU do all the work. By going 3D, I can offload more of the work to the Graphcis processor. With the large scale maps, performance is starting to get too laggy for my tastes. Right now, zooming in/out involves a noticeable delay, going 3D should let me eliminate that for most people.

3D is going to be a small part of the work involved with TOAW IV. All I can say is wait and see, if it doesn't offer enough other improvements, then stick with TOAW III, or switch to another system.

On a different note, for the near future, we'll be putting out at least a couple more 'patches/updates' to TOAW III.

P.S.
Naw, I like healthy discussion. That would only happen if you started name calling and wouldn't stop

_____________________________

Ralph Trickey
TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

(in reply to DeadInThrench)

Post #: 42

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 1:16:45 AM

jmlima

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick
...
3D is going to be a small part of the work involved with TOAW IV. All I can say is wait and see, if it doesn't offer enough other improvements, then stick with TOAW III, or switch to another system.
...

Interesting. There certainly seem to exist ambitious goals for TOAW4 , between your's and Jamian's hints... Very ambitious I would say, a completely new game it seems...

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 43

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 2:46:27 AM

rhinobones

Posts: 1540
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeadInThrench
'Cavalier'???? U must be kidding me.

In my reading of the posting �Cavalier� was used in the last sentence as an after thought, mostly as a way to cap off a thought and the posting. Think you can look past the comment and instead look at the number of improvements he documented. Now, I am probably not known as a big Lemay fan, but in this case I believe he has accurately stated the volume and quality of change incorporated into the original TOAW III release. Credit is due to Ralph and Matrix for this continuing effort. Credit is also due to all of the advisors/testers/analysts who give their time to make the product better for all.

As for my own personal wish list items, except for alternate graphics and equipment files, little has appeared in the updates. However, I have no reason to feel slighted. In fact there are substantial visible and behind the scene improvements which, I never contemplated, but none the less have enabled TOAW III to evolve into a more powerful, and enjoyable military gaming/simulation system.

Actually I would like to think that TOAW III has (is) evolved a larger �fun� factor, but I can also appreciate the historical fidelity/simulation point of view. Bottom line, support for the system appears to strong, is responsive to the communities suggestions, has an inside appreciation of additional improvements and is dedicated to TOAW. Sounds like a good deal to me!!

quote:

P.S.2. Yeah, I can only wonder if I am gonna pay for my posts with the loss of my ID.

Not to worry. After all, I�m still here and I�ve ticked off quite a few people.

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to DeadInThrench)

Post #: 44

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 3:13:03 AM

a white rabbit

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...from reading the above, i wonder if we should have an "Elmer only" wishlist. It looks like a complete overhaul is on the cards, and given that the programming, playtesting and result checking will be quite a chore, maybe we can help by getting together a prioritised list of Elmer's abilities so that nothing gets forgotten during the rebuild..

..i'll start..

..Elmer should have:

..1/ A scen specific memory , maybe using the movie screen-shots at formation level , and the means to compare with the current turn and run possible futures and act on the most-likely by changing formation objective tracks . Chess and iGo games do it..

..2/ In-built battle-plans on a tactical level, refuse right, refuse left etc..

..3/ Ability to change formation attack priorities based on actual situations, primarily formation losses/readiness/supply and tactical situation

..4/ Ability to arrange the supply chain to prioritise formations..

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Post #: 45

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 3:42:52 AM

marcusm

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Would WEGO be out of the question?

(in reply to a white rabbit)

Post #: 46

Rabit's ELMER Wish List - 12/29/2007 4:03:11 AM

rhinobones

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I'll add a few wish list Elmer capabilities . . .

1 - Elmer needs more than 3 Objective Tracks and needs to be able to determine which track is the best tactical/operational/strategic choice based on the current deployment conditions. This should be fluid throughout the match.
2 - Elmer needs to be able to make a choice of whether to use, or not use, Theater Options without the need of Events.
3 - Elmer needs to be able to direct replacements to specific formations.
4 - Elmer needs to have more balls when on the offensive.

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to a white rabbit)

Post #: 47

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 4:47:17 AM

DeadInThrench

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"You can wait if you want."

"I'll be baack."

Uh, if you are gonna do a total rewrite then it is gonna be a long, long time before you even get up to where things are now, and I am still not convinced there won't be so much emphasis on the 3D aspect, and things like continous zoom, that the game won't progress to any significant extent from where it is now, as least as far as I am concerned as well as what other peope are asking for (e.g. good production model, better naval combat, etc).

So, I choose not to bother to wait, and to instead go with TOAW3 as it is now, or other games until someone else puts out a product worthy of my attention.

In any case, like with HnM, not worth my time to waste my suggestions of possible improvement here. Yeah, I can only wonder why I was not wise enough to realize this was gonna happen, just like with HnM, and not waste my time with suggestions for improvement here in the first place.

Bye,

DiT

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 48

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 7:12:50 AM

rhinobones

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeadInThrench
until someone else puts out a product worthy of my attention.

Hmmm, would you care to describe to us what a worthy product might be? After all, it is a bit difficult for the game developers to read your mind and develop products specific to your personal specifications. Can you do this for us please?

quote:

In any case, like with HnM, not worth my time to waste my suggestions of possible improvement here.

You sound bitter that your personal favorites were not included in the last patch. Don�t feel alone. Neither were my favorite fixes.

quote:

Yeah, I can only wonder why I was not wise enough to realize this was gonna happen . . .

Well, some people are just a too stupid to see it coming. Just not wise enough to see the obvious future.

However, don�t feel bad about not being wise enough to see the future. No one I know has perfect future vision. Most have really good backward vision, which is what I am thinking you are experiencing.

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to DeadInThrench)

Post #: 49

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 7:32:54 AM

ralphtricky

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeadInThrench

"You can wait if you want."

"I'll be baack."

Uh, if you are gonna do a total rewrite then it is gonna be a long, long time before you even get up to where things are now, and I am still not convinced there won't be so much emphasis on the 3D aspect, and things like continous zoom, that the game won't progress to any significant extent from where it is now, as least as far as I am concerned as well as what other peope are asking for (e.g. good production model, better naval combat, etc).

So, I choose not to bother to wait, and to instead go with TOAW3 as it is now, or other games until someone else puts out a product worthy of my attention.

In any case, like with HnM, not worth my time to waste my suggestions of possible improvement here. Yeah, I can only wonder why I was not wise enough to realize this was gonna happen, just like with HnM, and not waste my time with suggestions for improvement here in the first place.

Bye,

DiT

Bye for now.

Absolutely, it's going to take a while, although not quite as long as you think. (I hope.) Adding in 3D will probably only take a month or two, I've got some 3D backgound from way back when and a stack of books/web sites.

Doing the rewrite will actually speed things up, since I'll be able to make the entire thing object oriented and separate out the UI from the working code. I have some ideas on how it's going to be expanded, so that will help shape it.

You might take the time to skim the wishlist that's posted around here and see if anything missing that you absolutely have to have. It's pretty comprehensive.

Better Naval combat is planned for at the moment, and the production model will hopefully be handled by a complete rewrite of the event engine to allow scripting.

Ralph

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Post #: 50

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 8:43:27 AM

L`zard

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GET SOME, RALPH!

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Post #: 51

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 9:09:09 AM

macgregor

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That's music to my ears.

(in reply to L`zard)

Post #: 52

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 2:04:33 PM

Jo van der Pluym

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

On a different note, for the near future, we'll be putting out at least a couple more 'patches/updates' to TOAW III.

Sorry for my curiousity and impatience. What do you mean with near future?
A day, a week or a month?

_____________________________

Greetings from the Netherlands

Jo van der Pluym
Crazy

Dutch

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 53

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 4:45:52 PM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
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From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym
Sorry for my curiousity and impatience. What do you mean with near future?
A day, a week or a month?

We're planning a small patch very soon. It depends on when people trickle back from vacations, etc. It should cut down on the jumping to the next unit issue, and a few other items.

The patch after that is going to take a bit longer. We want to revamp the turn order to fix the P1/P2 differences, and that's going to take a while to code and to test since there's a lot of potential for disaster. I am sure that we will throw in some other things too.

Ralph

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Post #: 54

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 5:15:34 PM

secadegas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

It should cut down on the jumping to the next unit issue, and a few other items.

This is the prof God exists...

Thanks guys

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 55

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 6:36:06 PM

a white rabbit

Posts: 2366
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym
Sorry for my curiousity and impatience. What do you mean with near future?
A day, a week or a month?

We're planning a small patch very soon. It depends on when people trickle back from vacations, etc. It should cut down on the jumping to the next unit issue, and a few other items.

The patch after that is going to take a bit longer. We want to revamp the turn order to fix the P1/P2 differences, and that's going to take a while to code and to test since there's a lot of potential for disaster. I am sure that we will throw in some other things too.

Ralph

..just curiousity, but how can you revamp the P1/P2 differences ? 2 housekeeping phases rather than the current 1 ?

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Post #: 56

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 8:13:27 PM

ralphtricky

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quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
..just curiousity, but how can you revamp the P1/P2 differences ? 2 housekeeping phases rather than the current 1 ?

Yes. Actually, I want to split it into beginning of turn, end of turn, beginning of side, end of side, beginning of combat, end of combat, etc. It's tougher than it should be because of the way the code is structured right now, but once it's rewritten, it should be much more flexible, and I should be able to also allow the 'old' style as well.

I've got the design now, and I want to start testing the states soon to make sure that they're going to work. After that, it's going to be a matter of figuring out where things go and spitting some things up into two sides , and making sure that they work. It's the making sure that they work, and that I haven't made things to slow that's going to take a while.

Ralph

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Post #: 57

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 8:31:15 PM

ralphtricky

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marcusm
Would WEGO be out of the question?

I'm not sure yet.

I see it as much more useful when doing head to head play, and what I was seeing on the newgroups from a couple of experienced game designers was that they regretted spending the time on network play.

It also doesn't play well with the 'rounds' system that TOAW has.

I'll probably try adding the hooks I'd need to record where the units are coming from/going to, and the combats planned for the first round, so that the opponent can plan their moves for the next turn, that' would help to enhance the reporting and replay capabilities.

I suspect that adding in the full network and WeGo capabilities with all the bells and whistles is going to be either a TOAW V or a TOAW H2H game, depending on what the interest is in that and all the other possibilities.

Ralph

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Post #: 58

RE: Chance of Norm Koger doing a sequel? - 12/29/2007 8:46:12 PM

ralphtricky

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quote:

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

...from reading the above, i wonder if we should have an "Elmer only" wishlist. It looks like a complete overhaul is on the cards, and given that the programming, playtesting and result checking will be quite a chore, maybe we can help by getting together a prioritised list of Elmer's abilities so that nothing gets forgotten during the rebuild..

..i'll start..

..Elmer should have:

..1/ A scen specific memory , maybe using the movie screen-shots at formation level , and the means to compare with the current turn and run�possible futures and act on the most-likely by changing formation objective tracks . Chess and iGo games do it..

..2/ In-built battle-plans on a tactical level, refuse right, refuse left etc..

..3/ Ability to change formation attack priorities based on actual situations, primarily formation losses/readiness/supply and tactical situation

..4/ Ability to arrange the supply�chain to prioritise formations..

You might split this into a separate thread.

Looking ahead as in chess/go isn't practical, the number of possible moves is almost infinite. TOAW is more like Go, and the computer can't play a really good game there yet. It is possible to have Elmer look at the situation and pick which objective track to follow, or even to pick his own depending on chokepoints, relative strengths and other criteria. It's also possible to save the history of past rounds and games and compare them to the current situation.

I've got a lot of thoughts about what I want to do with Elmer, we'll see what time I have, and what ideas work out in real life.<g>

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Post #: 59

RE: Rabit's ELMER Wish List - 12/29/2007 8:51:25 PM

ralphtricky

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

I'll add a few wish list Elmer capabilities . . .

1 - Elmer needs more than 3 Objective Tracks and needs to be able to determine which track is the best tactical/operational/strategic choice based on the current deployment conditions. This should be fluid throughout the match.
2 - Elmer needs to be able to make a choice of whether to use, or not use, Theater Options without the need of Events.
3 - Elmer needs to be able to direct replacements to specific formations.
4 - Elmer needs to have more balls when on the offensive.

Regards, RhinoBones

1 - Possible, there's also a request for formation level objective tracks that may help if it's implemented.
2 - If I successfully do a scripted event engine, that should be possible.
4 - What do you mean? Do you have an example or an example scenario? I think that what I need to do for TOAW IV is to expand the options that the designer has in settings for Elmer.

Ralph

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