RE: Moderate Complexity? You Must Be Kidding

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Age of Muskets] >> Birth of America 2: Wars in America >> RE: Moderate Complexity? You Must Be Kidding

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RE: Moderate Complexity? You Must Be Kidding - 11/6/2008 1:40:16 AM

killroyishere

Posts: 639
Joined: 4/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Executioner Five

No, WITP deserves something like a "motherf*****g-insane" difficulty level.

This game should be described as hard.� It's a fantastic game--but to describe it's difficulty level and/or learning curve as "moderate" borders on the deceptive.

This series of games isn't really that hard and I think why some see it as complex is because it's just not what most of us are used to. A simple interface with point-click-attack and move onto the next unit. These series of games are very much like the old board wargames of the 60's and 70's to me. I'm so into playing the newer style of wargaming that these types don't give me the fun value as say a Combat Mission or Steel Panthers and now Kharkov OWS and the last one. I really like the man vs man or squad vs squad type wargames today vs old school.

(in reply to Executioner Five)

Post #: 31

RE: Moderate Complexity? You Must Be Kidding - 11/6/2008 8:23:56 AM

Arsan

Posts: 409
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline

I think i don't get most of what you mean... but we agree on that WIA is not a very difficult to play game

But, you are saying that tactical games are "new style" and strategic/operational ones are "old style"??
You mean that Steel Panthers, a game +15 years old is new style just because its tactical.

I loved and played SP for years starting in the nineties but i can't hardly agree is a "new style" game. I find it quite traditional.
I would say that in a sense, AGEOD games play like an operational version of Combat Mission because of the simultaneous turn resolution.
If you what to try real "new style" wargames check Conquest of the Aegean

Awesome and really innovative.

Regards

< Message edited by Arsan -- 11/6/2008 8:24:35 AM >

(in reply to killroyishere)

Post #: 32

RE: Moderate Complexity? You Must Be Kidding - 11/29/2008 3:19:16 PM

Achsah

Posts: 57
Joined: 8/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

To this gamer, it is exceedingly complex what with all the micromanagement involved in a long campaign. As I have never previously played an AGEOD game, perhaps my unfamiliarity with their concepts seems a bit intimidating. I jumped right into the full War of Independence, and perhaps I bit off more than I can chew. The tutorial just scratches the surface.

Am I alone here? Maybe not, as I have yet to see any strategic guides. All I have to go on is the actual history, which I'm working on absorbing.

Great Game and go Dodgers in 09

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 33

RE: Moderate Complexity? You Must Be Kidding - 12/13/2008 9:35:23 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

I'd say that this isn't a complicated game. There's lots and lots of units to move about, but when you look at it properly, there's not really a whole lot to do with them.

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(in reply to Achsah)

Post #: 34

RE: Moderate Complexity? You Must Be Kidding - 1/8/2009 9:10:04 AM

Stwa

Posts: 484
Joined: 8/12/2005
Status: offline

Mechanically speaking the BoA/WiA series is NOT hard to learn or play. The tool-tip interface provides a great deal of information during gameplay. I learned very quicky, while never bothering to consult the manual, since it was already out of date.

BoA/WiA allows you simplicity and lets you focus on force composition and strategic movement during gameplay. The more time you dedicate to this, the more fun you have. But for many people, this is just not enough depth to make the game interesting.

The artwrok for BoA/WiA is unequalled in the current strategy gaming world.

Initially BoA2, was to be an expansion of BoA, but as time wen't on, someone decided, it should be another title (with all the additional scope creep that you would expect). The bigger map, was not necessary, since it only allowed the addition of a few extra scenarios, which most poeple could do without. And, you might have noticed, when playing BoA, you hardly use the western areas of the map anyway. A lot of the addition unit art came from ACW and NCP and looks somewhat out of place. And because the map was new, all BoA scenarios had to be re-developed, which was a total time bender. So if the project did not make money, it was just a big waste of time and resources.

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 35

RE: Moderate Complexity? You Must Be Kidding - 1/11/2009 6:26:31 PM

dudalb_slith

Posts: 168
Joined: 6/20/2002
Status: offline

I throughtly enjoyed BoA2.
I think where the OP made his mistake was in jumping into the most demanding scenario first.
Play the Tutorials through, and then play the Fallen Timbers scenario first. That scenario is light on a lot of the "chrome" that makes the game fairily complex in the big scenarios. And How many wargames give you a chance to fight in Ohio and Indiana?

(in reply to Stwa)

Post #: 36

RE: Moderate Complexity? You Must Be Kidding - 1/12/2009 3:47:46 AM

GShock

Posts: 1245
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: San Francisco, CA - USA
Status: offline

There are a lot of things to work on, but this kind of games needs lot of time (hence funds) to be fully developed and team skills and coordination AgeOD has yet to achieve.
I only wish AgeOD had supported this game more before committing their resources to other projects because it represents a distinct improvement over AACW, to my eyes a real masterpiece...but well everything is perfectible but nothing is ever perfect.

The apalling thing for a newcomer is a manual that while being fairly detailed can never really teach a player how to play. It will teach you how to perform operations but how to achieve victory is a learning process entirely up to the player...and that's a very complex one. FoF and WBTS have a very detailed manual and even COTA has a nice manual (the most humongous i ever saw in a pc wargame, fully equipped with thorough game guides) but truth is every player needs TIME to really learn.

Choice is between playing an easy game or a complex game...you can't complain about the learning curve if you pick the latter because it was entirely your choice.

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(in reply to dudalb_slith)

Post #: 37

RE: Moderate Complexity? You Must Be Kidding - 1/12/2009 11:39:29 AM

Stwa

Posts: 484
Joined: 8/12/2005
Status: offline

Agreed on all points. Most people gravitate to ACW by default. If Ageod new ahead of time that ACW period is just more interesting for Americans at least, by about a factor of 50 to 1.

But in my mind, the games to get from Ageod will be the 18th century genre. BoA, WiA, and RoP (Rise of Prussia) when it comes out. I only need RoP to complete my set.

(in reply to GShock)

Post #: 38

RE: Moderate Complexity? You Must Be Kidding - 7/20/2009 10:02:31 PM

shaunchattey

Posts: 79
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline

The enemy are only yankee rebels, quit your whining and don your redcoat. ****.

(in reply to Hertston)

Post #: 39

RE: Moderate Complexity? You Must Be Kidding - 7/31/2009 10:12:08 PM

pvthudson01

Posts: 464
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Chicago
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc von Martial

Rome was not built in one day , this is no beer and pretzels game at all.

"Moderate" is exactly fitting here. "Hard" is something ala WITP

I disagree with this and find it a little misleading

HARD is Crown of Glory. I would consider BOA 2 and Korsun Pocket Moderate to be honest

WITP is beyond hard. That is insanely difficult and on the level of playing a spreadsheet basically

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(in reply to Marc von Martial)

Post #: 40

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