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RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI, 1984)

 
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RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 8:03:52 AM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		Good to see the word "dodgy" being used It rocks.

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 91
RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 9:45:37 AM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Good to see the word "dodgy" being used It rocks.

Cheers, Neilster


Better than the word which in my mind more accurately describes his ideas but which I hesitate to type in a family forum ...

<Sarge & SuluSea walk into Luigi's Pizzeria>
"He, Luigi, I see you still make nice pizzas but I notice that back in 1984 I only paid $9.95 for the Big Pepperoni one and now it's $19.95. You've *doubled* your prices !"

Chances are Luigi would throw them out as he has plenty of customers who'd realize that in 25 years *everything* has gotten 200% more expensive and he can do without people who still think a nickel will get them a coke.

"You wanta de pizza, you paya de price" - my apologies for badly impersonating Luigi.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx


(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 92
RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 1:09:54 PM   
Sarge


Posts: 2841
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: ask doggie
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

Hmmm - lemme see - the price of the apples has gone up 219% since 1984 and the cost of labour has gone up by 219% since 1984 (CPI averages)

So I could set my selling price at 219% of what it was in 1984 *or* just follow the advice of business guru Sarge in here and keep selling them at the 1984 price.

I'm sorry, but taking business advice from someone unclear on concepts like inflation and CPI seems a bit dodgy to me.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx




Well if you cant distinguish between Apples, Pizza and Wargames in the market place I guess my take on the REAL WORLD as an entrepreneur with 12+ yrs of experience isn’t going to show you that your views on pricing are simplistic.

The effects of industry competition , supply n’ demand, overhead, labor and yes inflation of raw materials all play a part in pricing maybe couple of night classes might help …..maybe ?

But in reality ones product/wargames are only worth what the buyer is willing to pay, obviously Matrix along with other publishers found $50-80 is the magic number.


Insult away


< Message edited by Sarge -- 9/29/2008 1:17:32 PM >

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(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 93
RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 1:26:59 PM   
Sarge


Posts: 2841
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: ask doggie
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Deleted. Most probably too dodgy. Hilarious but what can one do? Battle on until someone discovers one's genius? Dunno but I'll give it a go .

Cheers, Neilster.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Good to see the word "dodgy" being used It rocks.

Cheers, Neilster


Post up another photo no one cares what you think

_____________________________


(in reply to Sarge)
Post #: 94
RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 1:28:39 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge
Well if you cant distinguish between Apples, Pizza and Wargames in the market place I guess my take on the REAL WORLD as an entrepreneur with 12+ yrs of experience isn’t going to show your views as simplistic.


As a software developer for over 2 decades and 10 years of professional software consultancy + a bit of an inside view in the wargame creation process I can tell you one thing, and it's gonna sound pretty simplistic to you :

Creating a wargame is just as much hands-on work as it was 25 years ago. In those 25 years the cost of living has gone up 219%. In those 25 years the price of wargames for gamers has stayed the same at $50-$60. If you're in any business in which the production cost is more or less tied to inflation, and anything that's hands-on - like software development - is, this effectively means that as a software developer/publisher you're not even getting half of what you used to get back in 1984 for the same amount of games sold.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge
But in reality ones product/wargames are only worth what the buyer is willing to pay, obviously Matrix along with other publishers found $50-80 is the magic number.


Yup - the sweetspot - and today this only barely provides them with a living. Expect prices to go up or see developers bail out of wargame development. Last year we had 34 wargames released, today we're only at 17 and we're almost October - it seems some developers are better at this math/inflation thing than some gamers, even entrepeneurs, in this thread.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to Sarge)
Post #: 95
RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 1:54:06 PM   
Toby42


Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		I've kinda lost the "Point" of this conversation? Are you saying that Computer Wargames are priced right or overpriced?

_____________________________

Tony

(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 96
RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 2:23:24 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Treale
I've kinda lost the "Point" of this conversation? Are you saying that Computer Wargames are priced right or overpriced?


Given that Matrix has almost perfect sales info, thanks to direct sales over the 'Net and that due to their traditional Holiday Season Sale they can also gauge how price elasticity works with their games you can only draw the conclusion that they *should* have pricing down to an art. A price set at an optimum for them and their developers.

The only things I've said - ad nauseam - in this thread is that wargames currently only cost about half of what they used to cost back in 1984. The second thing I've said is that wargame development has slowed to a crawl this year. I've got 30+ releases on the books for the past couple of years, but this year this has slowed down considerably with currently only 17 making that list. The reason is simple and anyone on the inside of the wargame creation process will tell you the same thing : there's no money in it. Hence even established wargame developers go looking for alternative sources of income, slowing down the wargame creation process.

Now, this market shake-out may result in number of sales picking up again as there are less games available or it may result in developers/publishers having to increase prices and hope their customers will follow.

So, historically speaking wargames are currently severely underpriced, but the question is if a price increase, which would give some breathing space to developers, would be accepted by the general wargame public who's accustomed to "game = $50" for the past 25 years.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to Toby42)
Post #: 97
RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 2:36:39 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Maybe instead of comparing games to pizza it would be better to compare it to cinema tickets?

I'm from Poland and during the past 5-6 years (before the gaming market was to fresh in here to talk about it), game price has been cut for around 30% and cinema tickets goes up by around 70%, cost of living (and I'm not talking about inflation) also goes up for around 30-40%.

_____________________________


(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 98
RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 2:37:23 PM   
Toby42


Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		Eddy, you should be a "Politician"

_____________________________

Tony

(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 99
RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 3:32:19 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		 I for one don't buy for a second that war games are any more labor intensive to produce than any other video game, business and their surrogates are  going to sell a line to the consumer, "our product is better", "we work harder", and so forth. If the market warrants higher prices , we'll see higher prices for wargames. I wouldn't expect Matrix or any other business to sell more games if they raised prices too much above other types of games. Fringe wargamers like myself will buy another genre, and again wargames don't cost "half of what they did in 1984." Total bull$$$$..........

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"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer

(in reply to Toby42)
Post #: 100
RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 3:47:02 PM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Deleted. Most probably too dodgy. Hilarious but what can one do? Battle on until someone discovers one's genius? Dunno but I'll give it a go .

Cheers, Neilster.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Good to see the word "dodgy" being used It rocks.

Cheers, Neilster


Post up another photo no one cares what you think

Unprovoked. Try using punctuation.

Neilster

(in reply to Sarge)
Post #: 101
RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 5:30:12 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea
 ... and again wargames don't cost "half of what they did in 1984." Total bull$$$$..........


I can only explain it to you, I can't help you comprehend it.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 102
RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 5:30:58 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Treale
Eddy, you should be a "Politician"


I'm much worse, I'm a UseNetter.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to Toby42)
Post #: 103
RE: Blast from the past: A review of Carrier Force (SSI... - 9/29/2008 6:01:04 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

Maybe instead of comparing games to pizza it would be better to compare it to cinema tickets?

I'm from Poland and during the past 5-6 years (before the gaming market was to fresh in here to talk about it), game price has been cut for around 30% and cinema tickets goes up by around 70%, cost of living (and I'm not talking about inflation) also goes up for around 30-40%.

I haven't been in cinema for ages, and frankly, I don't remember last time I bought a full-priced game. Lately, the largest single purchase that I can afford is about 30 Polish Gold Pieces.
I guess costs of living in general rising mean that there are less money for entertainment...
Thank gods for sales in hypermarkets and things like that. I managed to get WPO:DitP 1922-1930 in TESCO for 3$ a few days ago. Now I just have to learn to play it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

Creating a wargame is just as much hands-on work as it was 25 years ago. In those 25 years the cost of living has gone up 219%. In those 25 years the price of wargames for gamers has stayed the same at $50-$60. If you're in any business in which the production cost is more or less tied to inflation, and anything that's hands-on - like software development - is, this effectively means that as a software developer/publisher you're not even getting half of what you used to get back in 1984 for the same amount of games sold.

Well, that's what happens when you produce something that has only one purpose - an useless waste of time of the buyer.

Also, not everything goes up. My mother's payments as a certified property valuer somehow went down about to 20% in last ten years.

BTW:
I started playing on Commodore C=64. Prices of games were about 6 Polish Gold Pieces for an original game in store.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 9/29/2008 6:11:00 PM >

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People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to doomtrader)
Post #: 104
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