RE: It's June! Are we gold yet?

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RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/4/2009 4:00:39 AM

Charles2222

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson
I have spoken to at least one beta who said the game was damn close to being done (and that was six months or more ago) That's a delay.

The last mile always takes the longest. We can be "mostly done" and still not be totally done. I think of this project has having had 1000 theads of activity. Six months ago maybe 850 of them were done. One month ago maybe 970 of them were done - but for example getting the Allied AI to work on in to late 44 and early 45 has been a recent focus - this wasn't a priority 6 months ago - hecque it wasn't even on the radar screen six months ago.

There are threads that still need a bit more time - in my opinion - but we are definitely making progress and closing down activity threads weekly. Believe it or not - we are still waiting for art from multiple folks - I never would've guessed that art would've been a bottleneck - but if I'm worried about anything at this point it is actually making sure the art is 100% done on time. The art has been "almost done" for 15 months - but - it still is not totally done.

It's important that the most important part of the allied AI be taken care of.

(in reply to jwilkerson)

Post #: 91

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/4/2009 5:16:09 AM

Crimguy

Posts: 1409
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Well, please don't drop DR. I'm a big fan of your products, in large part because there is no annoying DRM schemes in the downloaded product.

And, btw, my wife will be scheduling the birth/induction of your second child on June 22. I think I'll need a product by about the 25th to give me something to do while I do my time watching her. Conquest of the Aegean served me well for the 1st kid.

No pressure . . .

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Post #: 92

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/4/2009 7:21:42 PM

pad152

Posts: 2871
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson
I have spoken to at least one beta who said the game was damn close to being done (and that was six months or more ago) That's a delay.

The last mile always takes the longest. We can be "mostly done" and still not be totally done. I think of this project has having had 1000 theads of activity. Six months ago maybe 850 of them were done. One month ago maybe 970 of them were done - but for example getting the Allied AI to work on in to late 44 and early 45 has been a recent focus - this wasn't a priority 6 months ago - hecque it wasn't even on the radar screen six months ago.

There are threads that still need a bit more time - in my opinion - but we are definitely making progress and closing down activity threads weekly. Believe it or not - we are still waiting for art from multiple folks - I never would've guessed that art would've been a bottleneck - but if I'm worried about anything at this point it is actually making sure the art is 100% done on time. The art has been "almost done" for 15 months - but - it still is not totally done.

Ouch!
Two years of AI to complete and artwork still not complete, this makes it sound like a June release is already all but dead!

Take another month or two if you must, I for one want a finished product, too many games are released unfinished and unpolished!

< Message edited by pad152 -- 6/4/2009 7:40:31 PM >

(in reply to jwilkerson)

Post #: 93

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/4/2009 7:44:45 PM

undercovergeek

Posts: 1526
Joined: 11/21/2006
From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152
Ouch!
Two years of AI to complete and artwork still not complete, this makes it sound like a June release is already all but dead!

Take another month or two if you must, I for one want a finished product, too many games are released unfinished and unpolished!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik
Ok, here's the latest update. We ran into some real problems with the new printer we're using for this - unfortunately there was no other option budget-wise for a 330+ page color manual. We've worked through them, but the net result was much more time in the "proof" process than expected, which means late June is looking unlikely and early July is looking more definite. We very much want this to be a synchronized release, so we will not be releasing the download version early. Instead, we'll use the time after Gold (not there yet) to allow the team to keep testing the gold master get a head start on the first update.

Regards,

- Erik

already established i feel

(in reply to pad152)

Post #: 94

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/4/2009 9:12:51 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
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From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152
Ouch!
Two years of AI to complete and artwork still not complete, this makes it sound like a June release is already all but dead!
Take another month or two if you must, I for one want a finished product, too many games are released unfinished and unpolished!

Good grief, folks. Please do not jump to conclusions.

Joe was talking about _as recently as six months ago_. Six months is a long time, please re-read his quote. We are at this point missing an extremely tiny percentage of the final artwork, which is being finished up this week or next and the AI is well past the normal design and testing stage and into fine-tuning and tweaking, which will continue until release.

I understand everyone wants this to be great, so do we. Will there be things to fix or tweak after release? Yes, undoubtedly, just like with original WITP. You can't make a game of this complexity completely perfect - when all of you see it, I'm sure you'll spot some things we missed. But we will not be releasing anything that's unfinished or untested.

With that said, I'm not going to comment further on the release schedule until we have a more definite date. I think that overall I've said more than enough.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 6/4/2009 9:16:09 PM >

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Post #: 95

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/4/2009 9:55:59 PM

Nomad

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When it's done it will be done and then I will buy it. I have a life outside WitP( not much of one though ) and I can wait until it it done right.

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Post #: 96

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/4/2009 10:08:44 PM

pad152

Posts: 2871
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152
Ouch!
Two years of AI to complete and artwork still not complete, this makes it sound like a June release is already all but dead!
Take another month or two if you must, I for one want a finished product, too many games are released unfinished and unpolished!

Good grief, folks. Please do not jump to conclusions.

Joe was talking about _as recently as six months ago_. Six months is a long time, please re-read his quote. We are at this point missing an extremely tiny percentage of the final artwork, which is being finished up this week or next and the AI is well past the normal design and testing stage and into fine-tuning and tweaking, which will continue until release.

I understand everyone wants this to be great, so do we. Will there be things to fix or tweak after release? Yes, undoubtedly, just like with original WITP. You can't make a game of this complexity completely perfect - when all of you see it, I'm sure you'll spot some things we missed. But we will not be releasing anything that's unfinished or untested.

With that said, I'm not going to comment further on the release schedule until we have a more definite date. I think that overall I've said more than enough.

Regards,

- Erik

quote:

a long time, please re-read his quote. We are at this point missing an extremely tiny percentage of the final artwork, which is being finished up this week or next and the AI is well past the normal design and testing stage and into fine-tuning and tweaking, which will continue until release.

I understand everyone wants this to be great, so do we. Will there be things to fix or tweak after release? Yes, undoubtedly, just like with original WITP. You can't make a game of this complexity completely perfect - when all of you see it, I'm sure you'll spot some things we missed. But we will not be releasing anything that's unfinished or untested.

With that said, I'm not going to comment further on the release schedule until we have a more definite date. I think that overall I've said more than enough.

Erik

Maybe you need to re-read the post, the following was stated!!!

1. The Art work is still not done after 15 months.
2. The Allied AI for years 1944 & 1945 is not complete and/or working as they want yet!

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 97

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/4/2009 10:11:49 PM

tocaff

Posts: 4781
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So when it's released we'll have our crack at it. We've waited this long and there's light at the end of the tunnel. That's good enough for me. DROOL!

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Post #: 98

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/4/2009 11:09:13 PM

Yamato hugger

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How often is that light an oncoming train?

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Post #: 99

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/5/2009 12:02:31 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152
Maybe you need to re-read the post, the following was stated!!!
1. The Art work is still not done after 15 months.
2. The Allied AI for years 1944 & 1945 is not complete and/or working as they want yet!

I think it may read that way if you're looking for concerns. I don't think Joe intended it that way and I know from the project itself that the Allied AI for 1944 and 1945 is working and the art work is 99.99% complete.

With that said, there is always a whole list of loose ends we still need to tie up to go gold and testing and tweaking and tuning continues up until that point.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to pad152)

Post #: 100

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/5/2009 12:07:29 AM

Andy Mac

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AI is working doesnt mean I won't be tweaking right upto the last second

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Post #: 101

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/5/2009 3:20:35 AM

TMFoss

Posts: 26
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Lose ends and those pesky few remaining details are the bane of any project. There is a quote that says something like- "The first 90% takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes 90% of the time". I am just glad to hear its almost done. It is the only good news that I have had lately.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 102

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/5/2009 4:22:03 AM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
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From: West Yellowstone, Montana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

AI is working doesnt mean I won't be tweaking right upto the last second

Tweak Andy, Tweak.

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Post #: 103

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/5/2009 5:01:55 AM

Knavey

Posts: 3052
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From: Valrico, Florida
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Ummm, I don't need no stinkin' manual. You can just tell me where to download the game and I will take the manual later when it is ready!

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Post #: 104

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/5/2009 3:18:29 PM

Andy Mac

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Remember I am an anally retetive perfectionist I want the Ai to be shocking you even in 44/45 but its also true that by 44/45 the range of options open to a player are far greater which makes my job harder.

It is a scripted AI that means I need to think of as many nasty cunning plans that a player could possibly implement - decide if the resources required to counter it are worthwhile within all timeframes, define a counter with appropriate forces - decide if its likely if those forces still exist given previous missions - e.g. if I tell the Ai that a Div will fight to the death on Guadalcanal there is little point in using that same Div as the main LCU for a reaction force to cover a 44 invasion of Formosa as it will be destoyed.

Thinking on a unit by unit basis and trying to predict what reaction forces are available is the hardest part of the AI design

Now try doing that for 2,000 LCU's and lots of airgroups and you can see the problem

In stock they duplicated a lot of LCU's to give themselves that flexibility an option I don't have as we are operating with historic OOB's therefore I need to be more cunning and try to scrape up counter attack forces where I can.

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Post #: 105

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/5/2009 3:20:35 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
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p.s. standard caveat I only guarantee no worse than stock AI.

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Post #: 106

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/5/2009 4:02:10 PM

Toddr22_slith

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As an AI only player I applaud you on your efforts

Thank you to the whole team for putting in the effort to make AE an enjoyable game.

< Message edited by Toddr22 -- 6/5/2009 4:05:30 PM >

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Post #: 107

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/5/2009 6:52:31 PM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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It's not awesome enough to just look at the tremendous talent on the list of AE staffers. The fact the AI is scriptable for modders means every single game can be different from the last, if playing mods, if the forum members themselves are any indication at all.

(AI all the way).

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Post #: 108

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/5/2009 6:53:09 PM

m10bob

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

How often is that light an oncoming train?

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Post #: 109

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/11/2009 7:19:33 PM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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Well I go on vacation July 3rd so perhaps I will have a new game to take with me to the beach and play

Would love to spend a week wrapping myself around the new Japanese Industry and see what I can do with it. To me tweaking the Industry and seeing how much better I can do as japan is the only reason to play... But then us Jap Players have always been a minority.

Xargun

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Post #: 110

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/11/2009 9:24:23 PM

John Lansford

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I'm in the group of "I'll buy it when it's ready but I want it to be great" category, so get it right and if that takes another few weeks, that's fine with me.

With all the additional bases and assets available, I can understand that making sure the AI knows what to do with all of them is going to take a lot of work. If it's 1944 and as the Allies I'm still getting surprised by midget sub attacks and minefields springing up in unexpected places, I'll be glad you took the time and effort to set it up that way.

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Post #: 111

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/12/2009 12:40:21 AM

kaleun

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I told my wife about the manual extract download. I believe she thinks I've gone over the edge.

What is that white van doing?

They are coming to take me away ...aha, they are coming to take me away aha.

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RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/12/2009 1:42:58 AM

Titanwarrior89

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I didn't think this puppy would be out this month(no suprise here). Probley late July(maybe).

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Post #: 113

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/12/2009 1:51:24 AM

ggm

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i was thinking, since we have waited this long for witp ae, maybe we should ask the dev team to add in the mediterrean mod and russian mod to the ae engine. How much longer could it take? think of the awesomeness it would be :).

ggm

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Post #: 114

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/12/2009 2:27:35 AM

tigercub

Posts: 2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ggm

i was thinking, since we have waited this long for witp ae, maybe we should ask the dev team to add in the mediterrean mod and russian mod to the ae engine. How much longer could it take? think of the awesomeness it would be :).

ggm

yes but i want to be alive to play it....

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Post #: 115

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/12/2009 2:41:13 AM

jwilkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ggm
we should ask the dev team to add in the mediterrean mod and russian mod to the ae engine. How much longer could it take?

Oh not much more than 8 years - based on current speed - I would think!

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Post #: 116

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/12/2009 4:03:04 AM

Dili

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If AE will give chance to modify the map for Mediterranean at least not more difficult than what happened for WITP there will be a Mod. For example Allied Ships are already almost 3000 and there is still some Merchants to research, and Axis are about 2500 just missing some German MFP's. Airgroups about 800 for Axis and 700 for Allies(Italian Sqn are very small so there is an imbalance in numbers), LCU's are about ships numbers.

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Post #: 117

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/12/2009 4:18:20 AM

jwilkerson

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Well there will be some plusses relative to WITP. No hardcoded weather zones comes to mind first. That was the show stopper way back when - for some of us. Editing the art will be no different - except now you have twice as many panes to make - so twice as much work. The map data - there is more - but it will be easier to edit because there is no "packed" data. And if you editing the transportation net - then you know what I mean - even if you are not an assembly language programmer!

So editing the map data is easier though there are twice as many hexes and a bit more than that for data.
So it shouldn't take you more than twice as long to do. And if that is good news then oh boy oh boy!

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Post #: 118

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/12/2009 5:46:08 AM

Dili

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I'll try to put in the Team who made the last Mediterranean map. Since i already researched Bases,Airbases,Refineries and Shipyards number of 600 right now( but not processed for hex size so they will be cut and certainly others added)and have a distance diagram between most important ones, so most data is there, i even found a place with maps and aerial photos of most North African airbases.http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/targetnorthafrica/
And since the Med is a "bit" tinier than Pacific, that is one hope, the remaining can be dark dead hexes

. I already abandoned the idea of including East Africa at first tough it would have been interesting linking Italian forces but is anyway probably an aimchair general dream due to logistics.

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Post #: 119

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/12/2009 6:56:07 AM

Aloid