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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/6/2010 9:51:56 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Kleist had one last push. After taking down the pocket he blasted another hole to cut the east-west rail line. The 502nd PzB is now attached to 16th PzD and is just sending Soviet units to the rear...I may have over extended here with rain coming, but I had to do it...




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Post #: 691
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/6/2010 10:16:00 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Voroshilvgrad has turned into a nightmare. I have had counter-attack after counter-attack here and looks to be secure for the Soviets. OKH really wanted the city before the fall rains...




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Post #: 692
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/6/2010 10:34:46 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		...and the Rumanians out of the front line - but you have always been a risk taker!


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Post #: 693
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/6/2010 10:54:45 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Those Romanians have pretty decent attack strengths in the screenshot.

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Post #: 694
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/7/2010 11:56:55 AM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		I think they are sitting on German units.


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Post #: 695
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/7/2010 2:54:45 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		The Rum divisions have been in the rear training and have hit the front with a loaded TOE. There ready for battle. I had to pull my other battered Rum units off the line, can't count on them...Rain fell, so I'm going to run thru the turns until frost hits...Ok heres a ss of a Rum division so you get an idea...




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Post #: 696
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/7/2010 3:16:02 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Wow! - you are good - I need more PM's from you telling me how to beat Don - or at least delay him for a few more turns.


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Post #: 697
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/7/2010 3:59:18 PM   
molchomor

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks(!!) PD, this is getting good and you seem to have quite a following by now! If possible (subject to NDAs & personal time-constraints of course - read:WAF ;), could you please try to write a few words about the more low-level tactical considerations you have for a screenshot, as clearly some of this is not well understood by your fans :)

e.g.

- artillery/airstrikes/friendly equipment upgrades, are you using this before punching holes
- supply (!!), you seem to venture with attacking units a long way from friendly/converted RRs - and they still survive...
- choice of defensive positions, sometimes you position units or the front line where we cannot understand why
- How you are handling/micromanaging RR repair units
- How you are handling/balancing SU partisan/saboteur damage and if this affects your steamrolling

Thanks in advance and keep it up :) !!

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Post #: 698
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/7/2010 10:53:02 PM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline 		A rambling thought: 

The rail line that Kleist has just cut is the last in the area for many miles to the North (you have to go as far as Murom).     But from the East the Russians can simply supply overland, around your PzG Division, can't they?   So the Russians are not much worse off in terms of supply than Kleist's own forward units.    My assumption is that the mud will make the supply situation much worse for both of them?  

So I'm still trying to work out why the wide swing to the North East rather than cutting straight up to the Oka?   I am all the time thinking of massing the armour to support Hoth for the final push on Moscow, but maybe that is not the best option.   I know that this is a much more threatening jump off point for another, even larger encirclement when the frosts come, but surely there will be a new front facing you by then?    Ahhh, I see it now - still drawing the reserves and replacements away from the main Moscow front.  

(And this is where I disagree with Flavius about the AI) the Russian 'player' must respond to Kleist or risk losing another army to encirclement on both banks of the Oka.   We'll see.... 

All this is assuming that Kleist's panzers are in supply and remain so when the mud comes.

Good to see the strong Rumanian divisions down South - the Russians, I believe, always rated the Rumanian infantryman as a solid (defensive) fighter.    They just lacked the heavy weapons to hold off the Russian armour.

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Post #: 699
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/9/2010 1:08:39 AM   
zbig

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline 		Is this AAR delayed due to the code upgrade mentioned in the 1943 AAR?

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Post #: 700
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/9/2010 1:04:23 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		I thought Jon had said, once the mud hits, he was just going to "sort" of skip though the mud turns and wait for the snow to hit, before getting back into detail posting ?

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/9/2010 7:26:13 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		(BAR) Well you asked why Kleist pushed so far east. Its for this rail loop. He pushed east to secure it, and the rail repair is going forward. There was alot of air supply going on during the mud weeks. I saved my transports this hole time just for this...The key is railheads, because I'm running at half the trucks that I need...Kleist will still be a thorn in the Soviets flesh...




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Post #: 702
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/9/2010 9:56:28 PM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline 		Jon

Kleist's Pz A looks to be in really good shape for the coup de grâce.  

There's been a lot of change to the front lines around Kleist's positions, and to the Soviet forces.    I assume they pulled back?  This makes me even more eager than usual to see what's happened to the North and SE of the main event over these last few weeks!   Can we have a BAR of the situation around Moscow, please...

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Post #: 703
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 7:22:35 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		(AAR) Well I left the pockets rot on the vine for two weeks and they fell after two weeks of attacks. I lied, I did some attacks in the mud for position... The party started (frost hit), railheads moved forward, supply is good, and everyone blasted forward...I moved fighters all around Moscow to knock down any air supply help. I think the prize is in hand soon...




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Post #: 704
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 8:04:55 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		OKH issued the plans for the winter. Press the Soviets, there on there heels, and run with it. This may open a spring offense at Gorky...I still have eyes for Leningrad, Armin's corps is itching for battle...Yaroslavl and Ivanovo are such great prizes I have to go for them...




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Post #: 705
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 8:33:10 PM   
Neal_MLC

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		It will be interesting to see how strongly the AI reacts to the Moscow problem.   Watch your flanks!

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Post #: 706
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 8:48:34 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		I think Jon's got the AI bamboozled - it won't know whether to try to break into Moscow or pull back from the near encirclement behind Moscow.

At least my prediction made back in post 46something has been proved to be correct; although I think Jon will have more serviceable panzers than I predicted- I think he has rotated them much better that I do.

I think the soviet back is well and truly broken, GAIA may stage a slight recovery during the Blizzard, but I can't see her stopping the Axis getting a decisive victory by September/October 1943.



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Post #: 707
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 9:03:04 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Bob its 4th Army and 3rd PzA job to take Moscow. It will free all my other armys. As far as the AI will bamboozl most players... As far as Don, I think he moved into the top notch players, you have your hands full. I see a clash of arms in beta. Damn I gave up the ghost, time to rethink the box on that one...

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Post #: 708
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 9:16:46 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Yes, Don is very happy - "someone" gave him 275,000 more trucks than he had last time - something about "Detroit doing double shifts"!



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Post #: 709
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 9:33:28 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

I think Jon's got the AI bamboozled


Indeed. This game stopped being interesting a while ago.


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Post #: 710
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 9:43:35 PM   
british exil


Posts: 1686
Joined: 5/4/2006
From: Lower Saxony Germany
Status: offline
quote:


Indeed. This game stopped being interesting a while ago.


Don't mean to sound rude, but it seems someone has some problems here. Over 47000 hits means that some people here enjoy the AAR and the atmosphere. No one is forced to come in here and read the thread.

Sorry Jon that I hijacked the thread, I just hate people moaning and complaining in the forum, esp when it is not called for. You put alot of work into the AAR and we all (nearly all) enjoy it. Some people just can't show gratitude or just be quiet.

As I said no one is forced to read or buy the game, just stick to being polite.

Mat

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Post #: 711
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 9:55:31 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

"someone" gave him 275,000 more trucks than he had last time - something about "Detroit doing double shifts"!


You taake da low road and I'll taak da high road and I'll get to Berlin befourr yaa...., comrade, yes?


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Post #: 712
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 9:57:36 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Thanks Mat, agian we had ten AI updates durning this AAR (still alpha). I don't want to stick a feather in my cap, but I play rough. I think out things months in advance, Joel asked me to stop a week ago (real time) and I asked to let me play this out until mid December...So enjoy...We still have alot of work to do...

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Post #: 713
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 9:57:57 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Sorry, but I remain rather disappointed in the very passive AI's defense here. It mounted exactly one meaningful counterattack during this entire game. (And that one did temporarily render Kliest hors d'combat. Showing what might have been done by Moscow if it had been more proactive there.) It fell victim to salami tactics. It did not use its armored reserves in the right places or at the right time. It seemed obssesed with Voroshilovgrad when Moscow was clear under threat. Etc. etc.

There are a lot of people here who are happy to cheer on PD, but this AAR left me quite unsatisfied as I was hoping to see something like a competitive match.

If being polite means ignoring all these issues, then color me rude. The AAR is, I thought, designed to test the game and then we can observe and criticize the results, and there are things to be critical of here.

(in reply to british exil)
Post #: 714
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 10:16:51 PM   
Smirfy

 

Posts: 1057
Joined: 7/16/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Sorry, but I remain rather disappointed in the very passive AI's defense here. It mounted exactly one meaningful counterattack during this entire game. (And that one did temporarily render Kliest hors d'combat. Showing what might have been done by Moscow if it had been more proactive there.) It fell victim to salami tactics. It did not use its armored reserves in the right places or at the right time. It seemed obssesed with Voroshilovgrad when Moscow was clear under threat. Etc. etc.

There are a lot of people here who are happy to cheer on PD, but this AAR left me quite unsatisfied as I was hoping to see something like a competitive match.

If being polite means ignoring all these issues, then color me rude. The AAR is, I thought, designed to test the game and then we can observe and criticize the results, and there are things to be critical of here.


Have to agree without being rude, pretty dissappointing the logistic and command and control model seem to suspend belief which leaves a passive AI to get mugged at will. Vital to get these right or Bagration etc will just feel as dry. I'm not sure the strategic resouces of Germany would make this strategy viable or believable. No offense intended.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 715
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 10:47:22 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		In the 2 ALPHA AARs that have been published, you have seen proof that the strength of the AI is inversely proportional to the experience of the player involved. Lee's Barbarossa experience showed that the AI was more than competitive for a relative novice, and Jon, who is far more experienced, has shown that he is ready to step up to the next level.

The underlying logistic and C&C model was the same for Lee and Jon; with two completely different results.



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Post #: 716
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 10:52:04 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		Please don't forgot that besides Easy, Normal and Challenging there is also Hard and Impossible.

I have tried Hard a few times and it really knocks the snot out of your sails. I dare say I have not yet had the guts to try impossible, not even after 2 or 3 glasses of scotch nor 2 glasses of Long Islands...


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Post #: 717
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/11/2010 10:55:20 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		The real test will be: how does this model perform between two human players at something approximating equal playing skill. Which is why the new 1943 AAR (suspended for the moment, alas, but for a good cause, granted) is the one I'm watching right now.

The first AAR with Lee proved to me that the game's AI will suffice as a tutorial. This second AAR proved to me that at some point I will want to move on to PBEM. The third AAR...that's the one that will really show if the game has legs.


(in reply to karonagames)
Post #: 718
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/12/2010 12:36:37 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Ron, they pissed me off agian...Start a new thread if you want to bitch about the AI. This is alot of work that I don't have to do. As I said the AI is still under construction...Flav I'd be glad to play you after release, until then shut the f..k up and stay off my AAR...

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Post #: 719
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 6/12/2010 1:05:33 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I won't comment any further in this thread, since it doesn't appear to be open to discussion, PD. But I'll say in closing that I believe you as a playtester should be taking a more critical and scientific attitude towards your own AAR. There's not much analysis going on here of playtest results, nor is any allowed by outsiders.  



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Post #: 720
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