Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can someone explain please.

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Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can som... - 5/11/2010 5:00:57 PM

HsojVvad

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I have said in other posts why I don't like the tech or research part of the game. Part of the reason, is I feel like I am researching nothing. Here is an example. Enhnaced Recreation Center RC-200. WTF does it do? I see it's a bigger size, more static energy used and the value is bigger. So what! WTF does it do? I am wasting research money into this what I don't care for. Why should I care for it, WTF does it do?

How much more happiness does it give me? When I compare basic Recreation Center to Enahnced Recreation Center I don't see what it does. When I click on it, so I can see what it does, it goes to the galactopedia and tells me higher recreation tech make better facilites further increasing happiness of citizens. So what. If I am suppose to want this tech, I should know at least how much more it will improve my happiness. At this rate I wouldn't even crash this research since I do not know how much it will really improve my empire.

There is only a few techs that I am willing to crash research, why should I even bother with Recreation Centers?

Am I missing something here? Can someone explain to me what I am missing?

What I would like to see in an expanssion pack, is better documentation of techs. I would want to be able to pick what I want to research. I never liked the random pick of techs. When I played Alpha Centauri, I never picked the random factor when it comes to picking what next to research. I hope that this part of the game gets an over haul.

To repeat once again, I can understand this is the desingers vision of the game. Where I say it's a complete fail is when I research something like a Recreation Center and all I am told is it's better but I can't see why it's better is bull crap. How do I know it's better? All I know is, that it's more expensive to use and uses more power. I want facts. Is it 10% better? is it 20% better? I guess better docmentation is needed and explained.

I do love this game, I really do, but every time I start a new game, I cringe when I open up the Research screen to see what I have and what I need to research and prioritize in what I need to do.

Post #: 1

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/11/2010 5:28:14 PM

Dadekster

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Yeah I get the same disconnect there. Still a great game, just I feel what you do and I can't help think, this could be sooooo much better. At least it is still early and they are working on and listening to lots of things. Hope this will be another thing they can get to at some point.

(in reply to HsojVvad)

Post #: 2

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/11/2010 6:55:14 PM

lordxorn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Davor

I have said in other posts why I don't like the tech or research part of the game. Part of the reason, is I feel like I am researching nothing. Here is an example. Enhnaced Recreation Center RC-200. WTF does it do? I see it's a bigger size, more static energy used and the value is bigger. So what! WTF does it do? I am wasting research money into this what I don't care for. Why should I care for it, WTF does it do?

A bigger and better recreation center is a great thing because it will keep more of your citizens happy, thus more tax revenue. Hence research is not wasted.

As far as what percentage of increase does it improve you have a point in where the game can be more clarified.

I have thought doing a comprehensive guide to offer this kind of information, however I have been focused on my mod. It will be time consuming to compare the components with different designs, but can be helped with the in game editor.

So this may be a challenge to others who have the time to create a comprehensive to all the components in game?

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Post #: 3

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/11/2010 7:56:49 PM

Canute0

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From: Germany
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If you want see how much a Medical or Recreation improve the happyness of your colony, check the population tab at your colony.

But you are right, they could add the value of the happyness bonus at the description of the component.

(in reply to lordxorn)

Post #: 4

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/11/2010 8:10:34 PM

HsojVvad

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I was slowly accepting the tech/research game part of DW, but then I finally tried and went to look for exactly what recreational centers do, and it was the straw that broke the camels back, and I had to say something. You are right Dadekster, it is a great game, I am believe CodeForce and Matix will fix this. I will be shocked if it's fixed in a patch. But I am hoping that it will be addressed in an expansion. This is a great game, and I do see that it will be a better game when an expansion comes out. I just hope the research game improves immensly. That is what expansions are for, to change the way the game plays, not just add 2 or 3 new units, buildings and tech.

YES I am looking at you Sid Meirs. I never bothered with Warlords their first expansioin for Civ IV. But I see they did put alot of effort for Beyond the Sword, so I picked that one up. And because of the efforts gone into BtS, I will get Civ V. If it was another Warlord type expansion, I wouldn't have bothered with it or Civ V.

I am looking forward to the expansion of DW. I can't wait for it.

(in reply to Canute0)

Post #: 5

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/11/2010 8:33:55 PM

siRkid

Posts: 6650
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From: Orland FL
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I agree it's like researching in the blind. Like right now I want to build recreation centers and I can't but I have no clue why I can't build them.

I really dislike this part of the game

_____________________________

Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.

(in reply to HsojVvad)

Post #: 6

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/11/2010 8:50:32 PM

lordxorn

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Let me put this out there, I am totally and completely happy with the state of DW. Patches are coming out at an unprecedented rate, and the game is fun in it's current state.

Is the game perfect, definitely no! What game is.

I would rather have the game right now in it's current state, then say not having the game at all and still waiting for release so the devs can continue to perfect the game.

One thing to remember, what Codeforce has accomplished is something simply amazing for a first release. The original Master of Orion was technically a second design, and even still needed many further improvements which eventually became MOO2. (I will not talk about SEV lol)

I believe the issue with research is something that can be resolved in a patch, not an expansion. Remember what Erik said (Davor you should know this more than others) that they want to smash all the bugs before adding new stuff from the wishlist. So make sure you address your desires there.

The research issue is not a bug, and frankly I don't understand what all the hoopla is about. The research is as straight forward as it gets. That is my opinion and I by no means want to offend everyone. We all interpret data differently.

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Post #: 7

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/11/2010 9:39:47 PM

deanco2

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I think the main issue is that there is only one way to influence it: crash research. Other than that, the only other control you have is building, for example, only weapons labs, which is in itself a drawback, because it becomes impossible to easily switch to say, high tech. All those weapons labs are not going to go away and they will suck points away from the new high tech labs you build. So the end result, from this players view, is that research just sort of happens. I make sure I have enough labs to cover my output, and from time to time I get a message that I've discovered something. No real involvement.

I can't help but think that Moo 1 did it best. You were constrained, but you still had a real choice between 2 or 3 things, and you wanted them all, but could only have one. Then you could mess with the sliders to lean the research one way or another, giving more control. Yet getting a breakthrough was still a random number, taking away some control. They struck a perfect balance between choice and no choice. Here, it's 90% 'no choice', is the vibe I get from DW.

That doesn't really bug me that much though, but I think the game would be better if they introduced the tension element in MOO 1 instead of having so little control over it.

(in reply to lordxorn)

Post #: 8

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/11/2010 9:46:58 PM

Erik Rutins

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Building labs is effectively how you adjust your "sliders" though. To be honest, I don't exactly follow the original poster's critique. I can't figure out if the main problem that's bugging Davor is the research system or that components are not well enough described?

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 5/11/2010 9:47:19 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/11/2010 9:56:50 PM

Bartje

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My main concern with the research in DW is that the components and tech tree are really confusing.

The techs have good names, this is a nice touch and definetely a keeper.

Its troubling though not to be able to place what's what. What came earlier; what's newer etc..

It's difficult to comprehend. Difficult to get oversight. I have no clear overview.

This is especially troubling when we are trading tech with other races.

It's only a slight trouble but I'm not quite sure if it falls within a feature request or bug category.

Its not really one of either; If anything I suppose its a UI / accesability improvement ??

You're right about the labs. That's a good part of the research system!

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 10

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/11/2010 10:48:42 PM

siRkid

Posts: 6650
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From: Orland FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bartje

My main concern with the research in DW is that the components and tech tree are really confusing.

The techs have good names, this is a nice touch and definetely a keeper.

Its troubling though not to be able to place what's what. What came earlier; what's newer etc..

It's difficult to comprehend. Difficult to get oversight. I have no clear overview.

This is especially troubling when we are trading tech with other races.

It's only a slight trouble but I'm not quite sure if it falls within a feature request or bug category.

Its not really one of either; If anything I suppose its a UI / accesability improvement ??

You're right about the labs. That's a good part of the research system!

I feel the same way. For example, I had to come to the boards to find out I had to research construction yards in order to build bigger ships. That might seem obvious to some but it was not to me. Again, right now I can't build recreation centers and I have no clue why. In almost every other game I can tell what effect the next researched item is going to have, but not in DW. I almost never get that "must have" feeling. I just let things go as they are.

Don't take any of this the wrong way. If I did not like the game, I would not bother posting.

< Message edited by Kid -- 5/12/2010 1:21:17 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Bartje)

Post #: 11

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/11/2010 10:50:42 PM

jscott991

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I think the components need much better descriptions.

Should a ship have ECM?

Should it have a cloak?

Should it have a hyper deny weapon?

What is the effect of all the plants?

How much better are the habitation modules?

All of this is either not presented or poorly presented.

It's hard to tell when you should upgrade, when you should just wait, etc.

However, my only major complaint about research is that it is too fast on normal. I know they just slowed it down, but not enough. The only tech tree that should move that fast is the shipyard one. Everything else needs to go slower.

(in reply to Bartje)

Post #: 12

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 12:23:19 AM

Kruos

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quote:

However, my only major complaint about research is that it is too fast on normal. I know they just slowed it down, but not enough. The only tech tree that should move that fast is the shipyard one. Everything else needs to go slower.

Hmm... I have not your experience of the game jscott, but I doubt that colonization tech should be slower. I think that if these tech are slowers to learn they will no longer be useful versus 'multiraciality'. For example, while playing one of my first 'big game' I realize that what boost my colonization ability whas not the fact that I had learnt a colonization tech (which I hadn't) but was that my empire had gain a tolerant race by migration. And after playing a little with the editor it appears that often -if not always- 'multiraciality' is a far better boost to colonization ability than technology.

So, I fear that if you slow down colonization tech you finally remove any interest in these tech, in regards of 'multiraciality' colonization ability.

Slowing down colonization tech could be possible, but in this case you have to tweak a little the 'multiraciality' colonization ability to keep some kind of balance in colonization tools, in my opinion.

(hoping I write something understandable ^^)

< Message edited by Kruos -- 5/12/2010 12:26:52 AM >

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Post #: 13

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 1:06:06 AM

deanco2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Building labs is effectively how you adjust your "sliders" though.

Yes, but it's hard, and clunky, to 'readjust' them later. If I could 'refit' my weapons labs to high tech, I could understand the mechanic. But you can't. The best you can do is scrap them and build new ones, which is unintuitive to say the least.

And of course, a construction ship on auto, that you lose track of for a few minutes, can upset your careful division of labs by deciding to build a couple of labs.

Like I say, for me, it's far from a dealbreaker, the way it's set up now, I just thought I'd share my opinion.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 14

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 2:17:11 AM

lordxorn

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Ok I tested the effects of a Medical and Recreational facility on a starting colony with 60 Culture (Development).

I am also including screenshots for all the details.

The main effect was that on Happyness which can help with war wariness and taxation. Thus allowing you to fight longer, and collect more revenue.

Happiness without any starbase is 12.
First set of Med and Rec facilities yields 17,
Second set 20
Third set 23

The combined effects are as follows
Basic Rec Center + Standard Med Center Gives = 41.7% Bonus to Colony Happiness
Enhanced Rec Center + Small Med Center Gives = 17.65% Bonus to Colony Happiness
Resort Rec Center + Large Med Center Gives = 15% Bonus to Colony Happiness

Based on those numbers the returns are diminishing, and adding the starter tech with a small space port would be the best strategy for your large population colonies, or problem colonies. The highest tech should be reserved for your best colonies.

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Post #: 15

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 2:18:28 AM

jscott991

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kruos

quote:

However, my only major complaint about research is that it is too fast on normal. I know they just slowed it down, but not enough. The only tech tree that should move that fast is the shipyard one. Everything else needs to go slower.

Hmm... I have not your experience of the game jscott, but I doubt that colonization tech should be slower. I think that if these tech are slowers to learn they will no longer be useful versus 'multiraciality'. For example, while playing one of my first 'big game' I realize that what boost my colonization ability whas not the fact that I had learnt a colonization tech (which I hadn't) but was that my empire had gain a tolerant race by migration. And after playing a little with the editor it appears that often -if not always- 'multiraciality' is a far better boost to colonization ability than technology.

So, I fear that if you slow down colonization tech you finally remove any interest in these tech, in regards of 'multiraciality' colonization ability.

Slowing down colonization tech could be possible, but in this case you have to tweak a little the 'multiraciality' colonization ability to keep some kind of balance in colonization tools, in my opinion.

(hoping I write something understandable ^^)

I agree with you completely. Slow down colonization tech AND tweak the multiracial ability to colonize.

(in reply to Kruos)

Post #: 16

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 2:34:28 AM

ceyan

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I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. I mean I get that some people want specific numbers, but the in-game Galactopedia has simple and straight-forward descriptions of components. There are a few details which I wish I could clear up (mostly just what kind of rate does a single plant transform resources into components), but by and large the component section was one of the parts I liked best because it was mostly clear and concise.

Or... did no one look at the component section of the Galactopedia?

Edit:
Plus the tech names are fairly sequential. Its pretty obvious to tell what is the most advanced component.

< Message edited by ceyan -- 5/12/2010 2:35:28 AM >

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Post #: 17

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 2:48:36 AM

taltamir

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so, aside from the in game documentation of exactly what each tech gives you being sparse and more a few too many clicks away... what is exactly the problem?

The one complaint I registered is that some people would like more control then just crashing, but I actually really like the current approach... in most game you only research one item, here you research one item if you pay for it, or you research all of them at once... I like it.

And... what else?
Its not that I am trying to be dismissive of the complaints, I am just not sure I even understand what the problem is with research.

< Message edited by taltamir -- 5/12/2010 2:49:32 AM >

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RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 2:52:00 AM

taltamir

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quote:

The main effect was that on Happyness which can help with war wariness and taxation. Thus allowing you to fight longer, and collect more revenue.

Which is a pretty huge effect, I build a small space port (at least) on every single planet I have. (and keep them upgraded via the mass retrofit buttons)... all with the latest medical and recreation facilities.

_____________________________

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Post #: 19

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 9:02:38 AM

Fishman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Building labs is effectively how you adjust your "sliders" though. To be honest, I don't exactly follow the original poster's critique. I can't figure out if the main problem that's bugging Davor is the research system or that components are not well enough described?

Adjusting sliders in this way isn't terribly practical, because the system is simply not terribly responsive to your decision: It takes a good deal of time to build a base, and the usage ratio is not alterable by you. Additionally, the research system is rather opaque and it is never clear how long it will take, where it is going, or whether it is going at all, which gives little clear incentive to try to push things in one direction.

Then again, real research is like that, too.

Maybe we should make it more realistic: Instead of building generic "labs" that generate research at all, your empire's scientists propose research projects that may or may not be useful, and ask you for grant money. You decide whether or not to fund these projects, and then maybe they produce results, or maybe they just produce requests for more money. Depending on various racial factors, you may get something cool out of it, or it may just end up sucking down money for years as scientists accomplish nothing useful and producing only requests for more money.

< Message edited by Fishman -- 5/12/2010 9:06:21 AM >

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Post #: 20

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 4:25:28 PM

HsojVvad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

Let me put this out there, I am totally and completely happy with the state of DW. Patches are coming out at an unprecedented rate, and the game is fun in it's current state.

Is the game perfect, definitely no! What game is.

I would rather have the game right now in it's current state, then say not having the game at all and still waiting for release so the devs can continue to perfect the game.

One thing to remember, what Codeforce has accomplished is something simply amazing for a first release. The original Master of Orion was technically a second design, and even still needed many further improvements which eventually became MOO2. (I will not talk about SEV lol)

I believe the issue with research is something that can be resolved in a patch, not an expansion. Remember what Erik said (Davor you should know this more than others) that they want to smash all the bugs before adding new stuff from the wishlist. So make sure you address your desires there.

The research issue is not a bug, and frankly I don't understand what all the hoopla is about. The research is as straight forward as it gets. That is my opinion and I by no means want to offend everyone. We all interpret data differently.

Oh you are right, I love having the game now, as is, while Codeforce is making new addtions and tweaks. I would hate to wait for it to be perfect.

We are here to give our opnions. Just because I don't like it, dosn't mean that it needs to be changed. I am just voicing my opnion. Maybe lots of people like it the way it is, and then that is great, but for some reason, I don't like it. Just like music Some love Rap, I dislike it. I like rock while others hate it. Yes we all interpret data differently that is for shure.

(in reply to lordxorn)

Post #: 21

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 5:36:13 PM

Dadekster

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I'd just like more fluff in the descriptions myself. I mean like some others have said, of course enhanced facilities are better....but how much better is what I always wonder. Until lordxorn posted that info I had no idea that it was done on a diminishing scale of return. Now I can make an informed decision if I want to upgrade them. Some people might have figured that out and I am sure E&E know it, but I had no clue.

I'm also in the camp that I'd like to have a bit more control over my R&D in a more granular fashion. The way it is setup is fine and it does the job although I find having to build stations to serve the equivelent of sliders a bit unusual, but I guess it makes sense. Hard to convert a biological lab in RL into a world collider by just abstractly 'sliding' more cash into the respective department is the idea maybe. What I would think would be cool would be that local space phenomenom (black holes, neutron stars, asteriod belts and maybe certain planets, etc) would give boosts to certain fields instead of everything in general. Take out the whole crashing concept and use those instead to give smaller boosts which would scale by upgrades to keep pace with increasing tech costs. To me it provides another casus belli in say for example you are lacking in the field of Energy research and your neighbor has a juicy neutron star providing a nice boost to his Energy department. Once again, no idea how numbers would pan out by switching from a general increase to a field specific system nor how the AI would handle it.

***
Like to add that I find the game highly fun as it is, just throwing ideas out in the spirit of the forums.

(in reply to HsojVvad)

Post #: 22

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 6:52:38 PM

Stardog

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From: Hickory N.C.
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Sup Guys,

All in All I really like this game!
I Thank you Matrix/Code Force for it!

R&D

I for one would love to see Sliders &/or Number[%]^|v Box For the different R&D subjects = Weapons,High Tech,Industry,Energy .

I under stand the Research Lab Build aspect but that makes me spend money on construction & upkeep. Why not just have as stated ( ^^SEE above) saves me cash and gives me a little more control over What I feel are my research priority's.

But as many of our thoughts & request(Wish's/hopes/) is this even possible for the game to do??...

WM

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(in reply to HsojVvad)

Post #: 23

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 8:40:04 PM

HsojVvad

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Sorry if I did not explain myself enough. I am not good with my words when I try to explain things. Ok, I will give it a try.

While I hate in Civilization and Moo2 you can only research one thing at a time, I love being able to research many things at once. I think MOO got it right, 6 different research categories. At first when I saw that in DW I can research 17, different things at once, i went great. But I see, at least in my current game, 3 are W, 5 are E, 4 are I, 4 are HT. While I like the randomeness from game to game, it seems the same to me. At least in MOO you never get the same tech in every game, but you had options. By research 17 things at once, my options are not really there. Do I really need to be researching 4 different weapons at one time?

See get rid of the 4 weapons being researched at once, and let me pick wich one I want to research. Do I want better armour or weapons? Offence or deffence? Let me choose. Right now I can't really choose its done for me. I like how in MOO the first one, you can pick from a list of what you want to research. Hear you can't. I guess some people like it, for me it dosn't work. It takes the fun our of researching if the decisions are done for me what is next being researched.

At least in Civ IV, while it's one at a time, I can pick what route I want to go down the research tree. In DW, hell I don't even know what the research tree is. I have no feeling of acomplishment of how far ahead I am. Am I level 1, 2 or more? Am I at the begining middle or end of the tree?

I love the idea, if I want my weapon research to go faster I need to build more weapon research bases. That is great, I love it. Here is what I hate. I want my construction to go faster so I can have Enhanced ship yards SY -200. So I build say 5 Industrial research bases.

WTF!? my extractors, manufactuerer and storages is going up but not my construction. I don't want more storage capacity, I would just rather build an extra storage box right now. Right now I want Constrution no manufacturer, extractor and storage going up while construction is basically doing nothing. I think it would be a better idea, just having one Industrial path, and put all the extractors, manufacturer, storage and construction all into that one path, and then I pick and choose what should be researched then. This way if I want to avoid all the others except construction, I can. But say I want that enhanced shipy yard SY 600, I should be able to go through it. But if I go straight for it, it would take a very very long time do to so. But if I go through say enhanced ship yard 200, then research storage then extractors, all in the Industrial path, I would be able to get SY 600 sooner then say by going straight at it.

I can't remember the point costs so I will make up numbers. So I want to have SY 600. So lets say I research SY 200, for 5K. then I don't have SY 300 but I do have SY 400, it will cost me 10K and then 15K to get SY 600.

But if I do SY 200 for 5K, then research extractors, for 2K that should give me a bit of a bonus to go onto something else. then I research manufacturer for 7K wich would then let me research SY 400 for 7.5K. See it takes me a bit longer to research it, but it's cheaper to get it. I can't remember what game it was. It could have been MOO1, I forget, but you can research the higher techs, but it's easier if you research the lower techs first before going onto the higher. The thing is, I have options, I can choose. Do I put all my eggs or research points in one field and neglect the others or do I spread them out evenly. Do I choose to go down this path, instead of that path? See in DW, I can't go down this path or that path. With researching 17 different things at once, what path is there to choose? It's all there. Or almost all there I should say.

Then when something is researched, I don't care. Unless it's the enhanced Ship Yards. Do I actaully care, if I researched extractors, and now my mines mine faster? No I don't. Why should I care. I can't control the public fleet to tell it what to transport and ferry over to where. So to me, things will be extracted with level one just as good as level 10. So to me that is a non issue. Whipee do dah day. My mines extract faster, but if no fleet picks it up it just sits there in storage waiting to be picked up, so I don't need faster extraction, since I don't have no involvemnt with it.

Same goes for weapons right now. Why do I need new weapons? My level one beam weapon seems just as good as the others. I just might have to add a few more. I can't remember now but why bother with Concussion Beams? They just look like maxos blasters, or are they actually different? See I don't remember now since I just stick with maxos blaster. I don't see no difference in range. I see no difference in recharge times. I really see no difference in them, so why bother researching more better beam weapons? I just add more maxos blasters seem to do the trick.

If I don't have torpedoes, I will research it. But again, once I have it, why should I bother having better ones? I just don't see the difference. Now if I researched new torpedoes, I should have the option, of saying either take the new stronger ones, or should I stick with the older ones, but now they are small and cheaper. Yes I have less powerful torpedoes now, but at least my maintence costs shouldn't be going up higher for them, but cheaper if I make new ships with them.

The game birth of the federation, where you have no options in what to discover. It's always the same thing in the same order every time. But at least I can prioritze one filed over the other if I wanted to.

So if I want better weapons I put say 50% into weapons and the rest at 10%. In DW you can't do that. Yes I can make more weapon research bases, but what if once I get what I want, I don't want to spend that much money on research anymore, so what do I do? Destroy the research bases then? Dosn't research bases cost maintence costs? So if I don't want them no more, I should have an option to shut down and not disband, but shut down so no maintence costs are being used. And later if I need more weapons again, I turn them on then.

too much game time is take away right now, but basiclly 17 things being researched is too much, I rather stick to 6 or hell ONE, as long as I can choose what is next. I can understand things being randomized from game to next game, but still, let me pick with what I have to choose with. Right now there is nothing to really choose from.

(in reply to Stardog)

Post #: 24

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 9:04:28 PM

Bartje

Posts: 308
Joined: 4/27/2010
From: Netherlands
Status: offline

You mean that we should be able to pick certain fields of research to sponsor within the provided 4 broad categories. That might work if there if enough tech to warrant such a solution.

Also keep in mind the AI would have to be able to use it as well; which means it has to have research strategies. It becomes a bit more complicated by adding this complexity.

(in reply to HsojVvad)

Post #: 25

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 9:06:39 PM

Gargoil

Posts: 389
Joined: 1/6/2008
Status: offline

Replying to Davor with have to quote that wall of text

I could see having check boxes next to each component being researched. You could leave them unchecked and research would continue as normal. Check a box next to a component, and research is doubled for that one and all other research IN THAT AREA (E, W, I or HT) would be halved. It isn't as radical as crach research, but not as unguided as normal. And it would seem to be an easy thing to program without changing much. BTW - and ETA would be nice too.

What do ya think?

(in reply to HsojVvad)

Post #: 26

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 9:13:26 PM

HsojVvad

Posts: 1036
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gargoil

Replying to Davor with have to quote that wall of text

I could see having check boxes next to each component being researched. You could leave them unchecked and research would continue as normal. Check a box next to a component, and research is doubled for that one and all other research IN THAT AREA (E, W, I or HT) would be halved. It isn't as radical as crach research, but not as unguided as normal. And it would seem to be an easy thing to program without changing much. BTW - and ETA would be nice too.

What do ya think?

I love the idea. The biggest thing that I don't like, is there is no choices to make. What do we have, build more bases wich we might not need later and costing maintence points, and crash research.

I love the idea of the check boxes. It's not a radical desgin overhaul, so people who like it as is, can leave it, and it gives us choices on what we would like.

I want an ETA as well.

(in reply to Gargoil)

Post #: 27

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 9:49:43 PM

Kruos

Posts: 129
Joined: 5/5/2010
From: France
Status: offline

quote:

I could see having check boxes next to each component being researched. You could leave them unchecked and research would continue as normal. Check a box next to a component, and research is doubled for that one and all other research IN THAT AREA (E, W, I or HT) would be halved. It isn't as radical as crach research, but not as unguided as normal. And it would seem to be an easy thing to program without changing much. BTW - and ETA would be nice too.

What do ya think?

Interesting idea.

I was thinking something similar : you choose an area (E, W, I or HT) and each researchs of that area are boosted whereas others others area researchs are slowed. It is less guided, but I think it is easier for the IA to handle it, so in my opinion it is preferable.

I mean, the more you give player ability to control research and make choice, the more you increase the difficulty to program a competitive IA, able to handle all the possiblities. From an IA point of vue, "the simpler the better" (translation of a french dicton, I dont know if it means anything in english ^^).

< Message edited by Kruos -- 5/12/2010 9:50:28 PM >

(in reply to HsojVvad)

Post #: 28

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/12/2010 10:25:37 PM

Gargoil

Posts: 389
Joined: 1/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kruos

quote:

I could see having check boxes next to each component being researched. You could leave them unchecked and research would continue as normal. Check a box next to a component, and research is doubled for that one and all other research IN THAT AREA (E, W, I or HT) would be halved. It isn't as radical as crach research, but not as unguided as normal. And it would seem to be an easy thing to program without changing much. BTW - and ETA would be nice too.

What do ya think?

Interesting idea.

I was thinking something similar : you choose an area (E, W, I or HT) and each researchs of that area are boosted whereas others others area researchs are slowed. It is less guided, but I think it is easier for the IA to handle it, so in my opinion it is preferable.

I mean, the more you give player ability to control research and make choice, the more you increase the difficulty to program a competitive IA, able to handle all the possiblities. From an IA point of vue, "the simpler the better" (translation of a french dicton, I dont know if it means anything in english ^^).

Hey, how about both! hehe.

as for the "the simpler the better" - it is said all the time in english as well. Another version of it is call the "KISS" system. (Keep It Simple, Stupid).

(in reply to Kruos)

Post #: 29

RE: Why I don't like the research part of the game. Can... - 5/13/2010 12:04:29 AM

taltamir

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline

i prefer the current research system to what is being suggested by some in this thread.

_____________________________

I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman.

(in reply to Gargoil)

Post #: 30

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