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RE: Business Model - 1/14/2011 2:29:47 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

quote:

So using your logic, WiTE is not a new game but merely a patch of WIR.

Completely different games. Interface and gameplay is different. WITE is clearly written from scratch.
WITP and WITP:AE has the same interface and same code running under the hood... AE is just improved with more features.


Hello, AE has War in the Pacific in it's name. It's the "Admiral's Edition" of WitP stock. I'd also like to add that owners of stock WitP got a discount as well. WiR is DOS game. It's not like War in the East is called "War in Russia: Commisar's Edition"

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 1/14/2011 3:44:44 AM >

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RE: Business Model - 1/14/2011 4:03:24 AM   
RangerX3X


Posts: 399
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Jacksonville, FL USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

Matrixgames has decided to seal themselves off from the gaming world and that's one big reason you don't see their prices fall to less than $10 unless the developer is also with another publisher with games like Time of Wrath and Storm over the Pacific, etc. So don't expect to ever see Battles from the Bulge for $5 until 20 years from now or thereabouts.



Matrix is still selling Highway to the Reich for $49.99/$59.99, so I would be surprised to see that happen, assuming of course that Matrix is still in business 20 years from now or thereabouts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Face it people, the average wargamer is somewhat brighter than the average shmuck! I just need to look at my friends and associates to see that. It also follows that these bright people tend to make more money, usually due too more education and motivation. We are a true minority.



The only reason the "average wargamer" is a "true minority" is because the advertising of these games by the publisher sucks. You have to spend money to make money. In all of the games that I have ever played, I have never once seen a Matrix title advertised on a fan site. There are thousands of people who play Counter Strike 1.6 day in and out, and if they were ever exposed to an ad for Harpoon or Conquest of the Aegean it would be like new synthetic crack to them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

Would you consider the newer version of Axis & Allies computer game a wargame?



I can't speak to a newer version, but as far as AAA v 5.0 c 1998, it has more strategy involved than any scenario I have played from HTTR or the BftB demo, so yes I would consider it a wargame. Analyzing the map and determining your opening move and its consequence against an arbitrary dice roll is no different than determining if your company of paratroopers has enough anti-personnel firepower to take an objective an hold it against fog of war.

quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:

$60 for an Xbox or PS3 game



The thing about those games are you can get them for less than $10 eventually and even less than $5 you can't do that with Matrixgames games.



X360 and PS3 games don't drop like that (like retail PC games) unless they are absolute rubbish. A console game will hold a $59.99 price point months long after the PC title was discounted at the same store from $49.99 to $19.99.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

When Matrix releases a game patch, it doesn't cost you...basically it was paid for in the retail price as ongoing support. Keep that in mind.



No different than any PC game on the market. There is nothing special about Matrix patching their games, other than the game itself costing $20 more than most PC games out there (and you get the disc!)

quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:



Complaining accomplishes nothing.



Oh I wouldn't say that, I've gotten countless free items by complaining. Free McDonalds, Free Cambells soups, free Chili's dinners, free $20 off coupons, free phone minutes and countless other things by complaining.



You are my hero! Long live the customer feedback form!!

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Post #: 272
RE: Business Model - 1/14/2011 10:29:50 AM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
Then you prove my point, you do not want the games badly enough. Any item you purchase is only worth what someone will pay for it.


I am not addicted to games to the point that I cannot wait some time for the price to lower. Of course, this does explain your point of view. For me it is a simple matter of ocerpricing an item, and I refuse to pay too much for it.

quote:


Matrix is obviously selling games at the current prices or they would lower them. It seems that plenty of us think the games are worth the price, since we are buying them. Some people think that the cigs are worth the 12 pounds, even though I'd never consider that (Roughly $30 right?).


Well there you have the core of the issue: for me it is not worth the price. And since I know the price is gonna drop, why would I not wait?

quote:


But it is completely another thing to be willing to pay that 12 pounds for cigs then complain about a game at 25 pounds. What is the difference? They are willing to overpay for one, but not the other? Most of us won't but some will and then complain about it.

No one complaining about a game that costs 25 pounds...where did you get that from?

And again, you do not compare one market to another when deciding what to buy. It's the same as saying "well, this Lada costs as much as a Ferrari, but since I am willing to overpay for cigs who am I to complain?".

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerX3X


You are my hero! Long live the customer feedback form!!



I would like to point out that being nice pays out more

< Message edited by Karri -- 1/14/2011 11:58:09 AM >

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Post #: 273
RE: Business Model - 1/14/2011 8:41:11 PM   
RangerX3X


Posts: 399
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Jacksonville, FL USA
Status: offline 		http://matrixgames.com/news/760/Permanent.Price.Reduction.for.the.Panther.Games.Lineup!

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2689075

This is great and all and should completely decimate some of the flimsy price arguments that have been made in this thread.

Slightly curious about the BftB price drop though. They have been advertising it at the $59/$69 price point for some time now. Guess they just made that permanent.

But at $39/$49 I just may pick up COTA as well.

Kudos Matrix & Panther Games for throwing the gaming community a bone.

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Post #: 274
RE: Business Model - 1/20/2011 1:38:40 AM   
RangerX3X


Posts: 399
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Jacksonville, FL USA
Status: offline 		You should all thank me. This thread and the pressure it put on Matrix is what led to the permanent price drops on all three titles.

Now all you dipsticks that defended Matrix prices, and the one elitest snob who actually advocated increasing the price can pack sand.



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Post #: 275
RE: Business Model - 1/20/2011 10:14:31 AM   
diablo1

 

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Joined: 2/27/2010
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quote:

X360 and PS3 games don't drop like that (like retail PC games) unless they are absolute rubbish. A console game will hold a $59.99 price point months long after the PC title was discounted at the same store from $49.99 to $19.99.


Not true as we have a Gamestop and a Software Etc. that takes tradeins for new and old games and they will sell and/or rent these newer games for far less than full retail price just a few months after release.

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Post #: 276
RE: Business Model - 1/20/2011 10:22:33 AM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
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quote:

I would like to point out that being nice pays out more


No it doesn't. I've never gotten anything for "being nice" from merchants. Being a SOB and complaining OUTLOUD in the store got me a lot of things for free. Goody two shoes get nothing but "oh thank you, you're so kind, you're so sweet, you're such a nice person, "you're such an idiot" (whispering) lmao

I'll never forget the one encounter I had with one of these telephone sales companies that somehow got my credit card number and ran up the bill. When I contacted them and finally got the manager he said they would refund all the purchase fees but that I would NOT get back the shipping fees. Well I told him I bet I %&#$ing do. He kept on saying I wouldn't. Well guess who got back his %&#$ing shipping fees?

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Post #: 277
RE: Business Model - 1/20/2011 10:54:14 AM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1
No it doesn't. I've never gotten anything for "being nice" from merchants. Being a SOB and complaining OUTLOUD in the store got me a lot of things for free. Goody two shoes get nothing but "oh thank you, you're so kind, you're so sweet, you're such a nice person, "you're such an idiot" (whispering) lmao

I'll never forget the one encounter I had with one of these telephone sales companies that somehow got my credit card number and ran up the bill. When I contacted them and finally got the manager he said they would refund all the purchase fees but that I would NOT get back the shipping fees. Well I told him I bet I %&#$ing do. He kept on saying I wouldn't. Well guess who got back his %&#$ing shipping fees?



It depends on quite a few things, mostly on the company and if your claim is justified. If it is justified then you usually get some minimum compensation. But in such cases, being nice will get you bigger compensation...however, biggest difference comes when your claim is not entirely justified. Demanding something when you don't deserve it wont certainly get you anything.

Of course, I only work with warranty so don't know about credit card companies et al.

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Post #: 278
RE: Business Model - 1/20/2011 7:36:46 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerX3X

You should all thank me. This thread and the pressure it put on Matrix is what led to the permanent price drops on all three titles.


At the risk of deflating your ego I'm guessing it actually had far more to do with increased sales of those games over Christmas at the reduced prices suggesting a revision in pricing policy. What that is we have yet to discover; a possible reduction in price at release for some games or one some months after release for some or all games? I dont see WitP:AE and WitE being cheaper anytime soon, except in the usual Xmas sale.

quote:

Now all you dipsticks that defended Matrix prices, and the one elitest snob who actually advocated increasing the price can pack sand.


I still would 'defend' pricing that maximises profit, and hence the likelihood of production of further games of a kind that simply are not available anywhere else. The idea you seem to have that reducing release prices to what you believe to be a norm (for what? "video games"?) will somehow automatically generate enough additional sales to make Matrix more money is nonsense. What is less nonsensical is that dropping prices some time after initial release may well increase overall profit on the product; that is, after all, what just about everybody else does! The trick is at what point in the sales cycle that price drop occurs.. but it will be sometime after the vast majority of sales have been made (at the original price).




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Post #: 279
RE: Business Model - 1/21/2011 2:08:25 AM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerX3X

You should all thank me. This thread and the pressure it put on Matrix is what led to the permanent price drops on all three titles.

Now all you dipsticks that defended Matrix prices, and the one elitest snob who actually advocated increasing the price can pack sand.






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Post #: 280
RE: Business Model - 1/21/2011 3:24:17 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Shogun Total War 2 Collector's edition is more expensive than WITP, WITE, BFTB!!!!
Well it's a collector's edition so it has some useless goodies that you have to pay for. :)
http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=502220

Matrix collector's edition anyone?

< Message edited by jomni -- 1/21/2011 3:26:16 AM >

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Post #: 281
RE: Business Model - 1/21/2011 11:19:36 AM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:

X360 and PS3 games don't drop like that (like retail PC games) unless they are absolute rubbish. A console game will hold a $59.99 price point months long after the PC title was discounted at the same store from $49.99 to $19.99.


Not true as we have a Gamestop and a Software Etc. that takes tradeins for new and old games and they will sell and/or rent these newer games for far less than full retail price just a few months after release.


Any megalomania to speak of here lately?

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Post #: 282
RE: Business Model - 1/22/2011 4:22:15 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
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quote:

Any megalomania to speak of here lately?


Don't know about megalomania but we certainly have megalowprices.

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Post #: 283
RE: Business Model - 1/22/2011 4:24:03 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Shogun Total War 2 Collector's edition is more expensive than WITP, WITE, BFTB!!!!
Well it's a collector's edition so it has some useless goodies that you have to pay for. :)
http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=502220

Matrix collector's edition anyone?


That's true but evenutally and in the not so far distant future that and the regular priced game will be well below $20 and in some cases less than $10. So, I really don't care what the opening prices are just as long as I know there's going to be very very low prices not to far in the future. THat's the difference in Matrixgames vs others.

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Post #: 284
RE: Business Model - 1/22/2011 9:39:36 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1


quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

Its not a reason to jack the price to $165.Yes according to surveys wargamers have more disposible income,but not all and thats no reason to increase prices.


But if they increased the price of wargames in America to $165 wouldn't they then cost $495 in Pln? I would think you'd want to keep the prices down in America so you could afford more in PLN.

It doesn't matter for me as I don't buy them anyway. The only Matrix Games that I have are the ones that I bought from a bargain bin for 5 PLN each (I don't play them much because they aren't on my favourite level) and the ones I got for beta testing. Generally, I have stopped stopped buying most of western games, music and movies after I went to UK to work and realised how cheap they are in reality. I realised that I was definitely working too much for my entertainment. Much more than marketing departments of western companies would consider reasonable.
Which doesn't change the fact that there are tons of gamers here which are ready to pay 165PLN or more to get their gaming fix despite that there are other games that cost 20-50 PLN (mainly older ones), so it could also work in the West with 165$.
Personally, I don't see myself paying 165 PLN for any new game unless it would be priced around 165$ in the west or would be an actual old game in box - sealed or very rare as the rarity and limited amount of existing boxed copies would make its value real and universal - it would be more like buying a car than buying a bunch of 1s and 0s.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

I remember Matrix having a contract with a Polish retailer some years ago, who sold their games for roughly half of the official price. This got out of control when he started to offer Matrix titles over Ebay and shipped in adjacent countries.

Too bad it wasn't any solid retailer like CD-Projekt or Cenega - both of them have very long tradition on Polish market (they exist practically since the beginning of the legal games market in Poland) and they always localize games that they sell. Nicolas Games is some weird company that exists only since 2004.
Nicolas games is a publisher of a Polish post-apocalyptic cRPG Afterfall. They put the founder of the project away from it some time ago, which is kinda suspicious.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 1/22/2011 11:10:45 PM >

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