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RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944

 
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RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 6:19:35 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 5thGuardsTankArmy

Who say that a military victory as Japan in 1944 is impossible?


Against a competent allied player I would say it's impossible

Whatever. You did massacre your opponent, so congratulations

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a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

(in reply to 5thGuardsTankArmy)
Post #: 91
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 7:00:36 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus


quote:

ORIGINAL: 5thGuardsTankArmy

Who say that a military victory as Japan in 1944 is impossible?


Against a competent allied player I would say it's impossible

Whatever. You did massacre your opponent, so congratulations


On the Internet, nobody knows if your opponent is a dog.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/31/2011 7:01:18 PM >

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The Moose

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 92
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 7:08:58 PM   
vettim89


Posts: 3615
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline 		If people would stop posting to this thread it would go there ">" (next page) and eventually it will go there ">>" (last page). Okay it will never go to ">>" but it will get close

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"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 93
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 7:12:03 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline 		If it turns out that 5thGuardsTankArmy is not an old troll, this parrot choir should be banned...

What is this? A kindergarter, where you cry for mommy when you don't like somebody...

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 94
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 7:35:54 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

If it turns out that 5thGuardsTankArmy is not an old troll, this parrot choir should be banned...

What is this? A kindergarter, where you cry for mommy when you don't like somebody...



What's a parrot choir? Do they have those in Finland?

Note please, you yourself, and the previous poster, just extended the thread. Funny how that works, huh?

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 95
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 7:43:19 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus


quote:

ORIGINAL: 5thGuardsTankArmy

Who say that a military victory as Japan in 1944 is impossible?


Against a competent allied player I would say it's impossible

Whatever. You did massacre your opponent, so congratulations

This IS impossible... if you will note, some of the air combat TFs have 25+ ships. AFAIK, this isn't allowed by the game*, so the reports are apparently falsified.

If this person admits to having been on in the past, but only has a recently joined the forum (by the date joined), something is also amiss, as in a banned person joining under another name. Possibly this is not the case, however, multiple accounts are also banned under forum policy.

EDIT: here is a list of ships in a TF from post 1 - count the number of ships present:

quote:

Allied Ships
CVE Shipley Bay, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Fanshaw Bay, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Hoggatt Bay, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Unicorn
CVL Bataan
BB Iowa
CVL Belleau Wood
CV Saratoga
CV Enterprise
CVE Ranee
CVE Kadashan Bay, Torpedo hits 1
CVE Altamaha, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CVE Prince William, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Breton
CVE Shah, Torpedo hits 1
CV Wasp II
CVL San Jacinto
CV Franklin
CV Lexington
CVL Princeton
CV Essex
CVE Wake Island, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Rudyerd Bay, Torpedo hits 1
CVE Barnes, Torpedo hits 1
CVE Saginaw Bay, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Marcus Island
CV Illustrious
DD Ammen
CVL Independence, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB South Dakota
CVE Long Island
CVE Copahee, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB New Jersey, on fire, heavy damage
BB Indiana
CVE Begum, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Wasp
CVE Battler


i count 37 ships here.

*only 25 ships allowed in combat TFs... i suppose it is possible that this is an "escort" TF, however, that would be either nuts, or incompetence to a criminal degree.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 1/31/2011 7:48:24 PM >

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 96
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 7:58:06 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


What's a parrot choir? Do they have those in Finland?



Yes, sadly we do have our own "5-star forum stalkers".


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

This IS impossible... if you will note, some of the air combat TFs have 25+ ships. AFAIK, this isn't allowed by the game*, so the reports are apparently falsified.



Sorry but you're wrong. Naval strike can hit multiple TFs, not just one... So number of ships reported have nothing to do with TF size. I don't think those reports are falsified. Maybe it's a fixed battle, but not falsified.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 97
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 8:00:07 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


What's a parrot choir? Do they have those in Finland?



Yes, sadly we do have our own "5-star forum stalkers".


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

This IS impossible... if you will note, some of the air combat TFs have 25+ ships. AFAIK, this isn't allowed by the game*, so the reports are apparently falsified.



Sorry but you're wrong. Naval strike can hit multiple TFs, not just one... So number of ships reported have nothing to do with TF size. I don't think those reports are falsified. Maybe it's a set up battle, but not falsified.

Since i haven't had a multi-task force carrier encounter yet, i will bow to your superior knowledge. However, i would have thought they would have split up the results into different TFS.

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 98
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 8:04:55 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		At any rate it's an interesting read for a newb to see the theories of how it is impossible. The argument being picked apart through the details of what is and is not possible in the game. I'm learning a bit, and especially a lot about what not to do, and how not to report what I have seen pass in this game. I agree that the defense of the argument is weak, and possible this is because the original post was written in someone's second language?

Everyone loves a mystery.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 99
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 8:14:23 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Fixed battle or not, but I see there's (at least) 3 valuable lessons for newbies.

1) Neglecting pilot training is bad idea.
2) Carriers at coastal hex is bad idea.
3) Too large combat TFs is bad idea.



(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 100
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 8:57:12 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		I've seen where bombers attack different TF's in one phase, but the results were seperate and listed under the TF# for each one.  I've never seen all the ships attacked get named in one gigantic ship list.

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 101
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 9:05:29 PM   
ChickenOfTheSea


Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I've seen where bombers attack different TF's in one phase, but the results were seperate and listed under the TF# for each one.  I've never seen all the ships attacked get named in one gigantic ship list.


This is what I see also and rtrapasso is correct.

However, from now on I am going to disregard this thread.

_____________________________

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. - Manfred Eigen

(in reply to John Lansford)
Post #: 102
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 9:08:05 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Is it possible to set this up in an editor, just to work on mechanics of large fleet battles, and play them over and over again?

Just new here, and wondering. Seems it would be good to learn how different tactics of invasion might work, (or not) against staunch defense. Also good to work on equipment you might not get to use in combination often, or ever.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to John Lansford)
Post #: 103
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 9:15:41 PM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Is it possible to set this up in an editor, just to work on mechanics of large fleet battles, and play them over and over again?

Just new here, and wondering. Seems it would be good to learn how different tactics of invasion might work, (or not) against staunch defense. Also good to work on equipment you might not get to use in combination often, or ever.



Yes it is possible to set this up in the editor. During beta playtesting, we set up several sandboxes using the editor to test various elements of the game. Fairly easy to do.

Personally, I think we should just let this thread die a quick death.

Chez

_____________________________

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VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 104
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 9:16:42 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I've seen where bombers attack different TF's in one phase, but the results were seperate and listed under the TF# for each one.  I've never seen all the ships attacked get named in one gigantic ship list.


This is what I see also and rtrapasso is correct.



Really???

Because my results are like this:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Duff Islands at 125,141

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40



Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 6
Swordfish I x 13
F4F-4 Wildcat x 36
SBD-2 Dauntless x 18
SBD-3 Dauntless x 66
TBF-1 Avenger x 30


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 1 destroyed
Swordfish I: 5 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 7 destroyed
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 4 destroyed, 6 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed, 12 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Ise, Bomb hits 10, heavy fires
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 5, on fire
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Hosho, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Kongo, Bomb hits 3
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Haguro
CVL Ryujo
DD Makigumo, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Naganami, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Yugumo
DD Kazegumo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Haruna
CS Nisshin, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires



There was 2 TFs for sure, one with slower ships and one with faster ships. Combat report, PBEM game.

(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)
Post #: 105
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 1/31/2011 9:25:09 PM   
ChickenOfTheSea


Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I've seen where bombers attack different TF's in one phase, but the results were seperate and listed under the TF# for each one.  I've never seen all the ships attacked get named in one gigantic ship list.


This is what I see also and rtrapasso is correct.



Really???

Because my results are like this:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Duff Islands at 125,141

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40



Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 6
Swordfish I x 13
F4F-4 Wildcat x 36
SBD-2 Dauntless x 18
SBD-3 Dauntless x 66
TBF-1 Avenger x 30


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 1 destroyed
Swordfish I: 5 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 7 destroyed
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 4 destroyed, 6 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed, 12 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Ise, Bomb hits 10, heavy fires
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 5, on fire
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Hosho, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Kongo, Bomb hits 3
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Haguro
CVL Ryujo
DD Makigumo, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Naganami, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Yugumo
DD Kazegumo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Haruna
CS Nisshin, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires



There was 2 TFs for sure, one with slower ships and one with faster ships. Combat report, PBEM game.


Actually, after checking old reports, it appears that you are correct. It's each air attack that produces one combat report.
My apologies.

_____________________________

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. - Manfred Eigen

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 106
RE: Slaughter of the Allied CV/BB Fleet - Combat 1944 - 5/8/2011 2:26:04 AM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

If it turns out that 5thGuardsTankArmy is not an old troll, this parrot choir should be banned...

What is this? A kindergarter, where you cry for mommy when you don't like somebody...




This pile of steaming horse crap is Japan/Helmut/etc.....

From post #272 of this thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2799601&mpage=10�
quote:

ORIGINAL: 5thGuardsTankArmy

Regarding the Osama bin Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden case.


1) Was it legal to go into another soverign country and conduct an armed attack without getting permission from that soverign country first?

2) Is it legal to execute criminals without the due process of the law?


I have no sympathies with Bin Laden and his gang, but on the other hand I have no what so ever sympathies with the 9/11 victims or their families either. They both have something in common, they are probably both religious, ignorant and casualties of war.


(And to you "I love hero best in the world US hallelluja folks, just bring it on.. I won't check this thread any more as I'm leaving now for vaccation - Bye).



My apologies for the thread necromancy, but many forum members were not sure about this loser a few months ago.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 107
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