RE: VPs that encouraged historical strategy

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RE: VPs that encouraged historical strategy - 3/28/2011 5:46:10 PM

alfonso

Posts: 470
Joined: 10/22/2001
From: Palma de Mallorca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: von Beanie

wargame,

The key word.

It's a game. Not a simulation.

I don't see why some want to "obey" CPU dictates, and yet want to run the war.

You can't claim that lack of such CPU interference is not realistic while at the same time having the ability to put every unit from regiment to army hq where you want them.

And just what consequence should you suffer? The only one that makes any sense since you're running all the peices is that if you don't do what CPU Hitler/Stalin says, then you get removed. Which means you lose.

Good point.

In Germany there wasn't anyone with the power to deploy the divisions of all Army Groups and the Luftwaffe assets.

Except that angry guy making the directives...

Although not exactly in the same role, the most aproximate reference to what the player is supposed to be is Stalin and Hitler. Who else had the power to dismiss Zhukov and Halder?

I would understand the concept of external ad-hoc directives if the game is "Battle of Moscow", or "Bagration", or "Korsun Pocket"...or "The Battle of the Bulge", etc...but in "War in the East 1941-1945"....?

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 91

RE: VPs that encouraged historical strategy - 3/28/2011 9:10:25 PM

Ridgeway

Posts: 139
Joined: 2/21/2011
Status: offline

This is a fascinating discussion, but it seems like it would be more fruitful if the underlying question were more specific.

The way I see it, the proposed VP changes (to the extent that they punish the Russians for failure to hold particular objectives) are only relevant if the Comrade Robinsky strategy gives the Russian player an insurmountable advantage, i.e. they are basically guaranteed a major or decisive victory no matter what the German does. In that case, it would seem logical that the VP structure would need to be tweaked. If it does not, however, and the Russian suffers genuine disadvantages in the game as it stands from Robinskying, I think we are discussing solutions to a non-existent problem. I do not see the point in reducing a player's flexibility as long as it does not grossly imbalance the game.

As an analogy, imagine that the best US strategy in WitP was to withdraw all forces to the West Coast and hole up until early 1944, whereupon the US could launch an unstoppable juggernaut that would steamroll across the Pacific and end the war in a decisive victory by Winter 1944 no matter what the Japanese did. One could argue for changing the victory conditions in that case, because most people would agree that (a) the game would be no fun, and (b) such a withdrawal would have been politically unacceptable in the US at the time and thus could not have happened, even if it were the "best" military strategy.

To sum up, I think one needs to balance fun, flexibility and realism.

(in reply to alfonso)

Post #: 92

RE: VPs that encouraged historical strategy - 3/28/2011 10:52:18 PM

Skanvak

Posts: 577
Joined: 4/3/2005
Status: offline

For soviet may be there is no point. But for the German this make the start of the game more fun. Otherwise German player think that going for Barbarossa objective is point less. Part of the propose change, will make the 1st year a real go for the German for big point before going to defensive.

_____________________________

Best regards

Skanvak

(in reply to Ridgeway)

Post #: 93

RE: VPs that encouraged historical strategy - 3/29/2011 12:45:56 AM

Wild

Posts: 364
Joined: 12/10/2007
Status: offline

If these Vp's were implemented, i really hope this would be an optional rule.
I wish to decide for myself what objectives are important for me to take or hold. i do not wish to see anything that hampers my flexability in this regard.
Also for those that argue that certain cities are worth more VP's due too political considerations, i would just say this seems to open a can of worms that would bring no end of arguing over which cites they should be and how much should they be worth.
Personally i just don't think this is a good idea.

(in reply to Skanvak)

Post #: 94

RE: VPs that encouraged historical strategy - 3/29/2011 3:10:27 AM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

My guess is that if Joel dropped by this thread, we would see a similar response as in the weather thread. I am not an expert on the editor, but I don't think there is much flexibility in the current VP model.

Which leads me to the conclusion it isn't going to happen.

(in reply to karonagames)

Post #: 95

RE: VPs that encouraged historical strategy - 3/29/2011 3:13:28 AM

PeeDeeAitch

Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline

I have decided to use the "beers while doing my turn" Victory Point system. If I do not want to raise my points, no beers. 1-3 beers gives me VP x 1.5, 4-8 beers doubles the points. If I switch to whiskey I have already lost.

I believe in combining play with fun.

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 96

RE: VPs that encouraged historical strategy - 3/29/2011 3:17:52 AM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

I have decided to use the "beers while doing my turn" Victory Point system.� If I do not want to raise my points, no beers.� 1-3 beers gives me VP x 1.5, 4-8 beers doubles the points.� If I switch to whiskey I have already lost.

I believe in combining play with fun.

Dang. I can't drink.

Have to come up with something else......

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)

Post #: 97

RE: VPs that encouraged historical strategy - 3/29/2011 8:38:29 AM

Tarhunnas

Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline

I am putting together a table of the capture turns for all the VP cities in the game, as given by the current VP system. Then I will compute the historical VP level per turn and post it here, so those interested can just bring up the VP screen in the game and compare their progress to the historical VP value. This will obviously take some time. If anyone knows of a convenient website with capture dates for cities on the eastern front that would be helpful.

Edit: Spelling error

< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 3/29/2011 1:18:28 PM >

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 98

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