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RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 3:10:32 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Redacted.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/3/2011 3:23:33 PM >

(in reply to Erkki)
Post #: 91
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 3:23:22 PM   
Telumar


Posts: 2236
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shellshock


quote:

ORIGINAL: henhute6

This whole thing is just a great hoax.




Been seeing a lot of sour grapes along these lines from the Finns on other boards lately. They seeme disappointed or annoyed that Bin Laden is no more.


Come on guys. Noone is actually disappointed or annoyed that OBL is dead. This is ridiculous.

This propaganda/hoax is so blatant... but move on, believe the official media/gov propaganda with its ties into the secret service/corporate/industrialmiltarycomplex morass. Be ruled by banksters, war criminals and members of obscure "student fraternities".. if the (your) founding fathers knew...

@Erkki: It's not nice to post in finnish, i don't post German, too. Here's the translation (google): Mostly amused by the celebration from the U.S.. Their attitude is not always at work, and then wonder why all that hate them. One hundred percent self-inflicted, and even just to pay ..

I have to say, you can't blame people for the mistakes of their leaders.

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(in reply to Shellshock)
Post #: 92
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 3:25:01 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Keep telling yourself that. Ass.

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Post #: 93
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 3:26:59 PM   
Telumar


Posts: 2236
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Keep telling yourself that. Ass.


???

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Post #: 94
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 4:01:51 PM   
Erkki


Posts: 1461
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar
@Erkki: It's not nice to post in finnish, i don't post German, too. Here's the translation (google): Mostly amused by the celebration from the U.S.. Their attitude is not always at work, and then wonder why all that hate them. One hundred percent self-inflicted, and even just to pay ..

I have to say, you can't blame people for the mistakes of their leaders.


Maybe. But the translator needs a fix, "and even just to pay .." didnt hit even the right continent.

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Post #: 95
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 4:29:24 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Wow.  Three green buttons in one day.  This has been productive-a record for me!

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Post #: 96
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 6:17:56 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Wow.  Three green buttons in one day.  This has been productive-a record for me!



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Post #: 97
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 6:52:24 PM   
filo78


Posts: 7
Joined: 7/1/2009
From: Italy
Status: offline 		so not everybody is entitled his own opinion in this thread?

(in reply to Schanilec)
Post #: 98
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 6:54:10 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Guess not...


Reply- I take that back. You are, but you will be told you are an idiot...

< Message edited by jeffk3510 -- 5/3/2011 6:55:30 PM >

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Post #: 99
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 6:55:42 PM   
filo78


Posts: 7
Joined: 7/1/2009
From: Italy
Status: offline

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 100
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 7:10:54 PM   
Sredni

 

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar


I have to say, you can't blame people for the mistakes of their leaders.


I have to say I've come over the years to disagree with this. It's just a cop out to absolve people of responsibility to say they're not to blame for what their leaders do. The president, prime minister, supreme leader, heavenly father, ect is just one man. It's the people empowering him that allow him to work his will. And it's their continued compliance that allows those figures to continue their work year after year after year.

If your countries leader does something wrong it's your job as the people to take responsibility and set things right. This applies to all countries and all peoples. Big or small, rich or poor, 1st world or 3rd.

(in reply to Telumar)
Post #: 101
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 7:46:34 PM   
vinnie71

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Though not American, I feel that the celebrations were justified. No one should be allowed to go around killing people because of their so called 'beliefs'. Besides Bin Laden and his bretheren really gloated on the destruction of the Twin Towers so basically, they had it coming. In the end, he was the enemy of the western way of life, not just America and he struck at its symbols. America struck back and showed people that there is a price to pay for such actions - and the higher ups were not exempt from paying either.

Having said that, bin Laden was essenially a peripheral figure at this point. The fact that he was constantly under threat and moving meant that in practice, he was never more than a figurehead barely in contact with his minions. The real mastermind is the Egyptian doctor (el Zawihri??) who was the real creator of al Qaeda. Bin Laden was little better than a rich fanatic with contacts and money, co-opted to boost its image and possibly effectiveness. The only real way of defeating al Qaeda is in the elimination not of single persons (someone will always step in their place) but by taking out its financial, educational infrastructure that can be found on all continents and in forcing so called 'friendly' regimes to turn on them.


(in reply to Sredni)
Post #: 102
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 7:53:08 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: filo78

so not everybody is entitled his own opinion in this thread?

Of course they are. If you're coarse, abrasive, belittling or rude to your audience, they have the right to 'green button' and ignore you in perpetuity too. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

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Post #: 103
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 8:00:06 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: filo78

so not everybody is entitled his own opinion in this thread?


Yes, we just don't have to listen to/read it

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(in reply to filo78)
Post #: 104
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 8:06:37 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

Having said that, bin Laden was essenially a peripheral figure at this point. The fact that he was constantly under threat and moving meant that in practice, he was never more than a figurehead barely in contact with his minions.



However important the others in that organization are, the analysis I've seen in the past 24 hours is that he was very much involved and still directing things. They are (apparently) trying to figure out how long he has been ensconced in that house, but he might have been there for a long time. I presume he was less effective than before 9/11, when he had much greater freedom of movement, but it seems that he was still very much in the thick of things.

(in reply to vinnie71)
Post #: 105
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 8:09:52 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: henhute6

World seems to be quite surprised why americans are celebrating. Why not? They have been taught to think OBL as their biggest enemy. I believe OBL is only stronger now, like Ben Kenobi in Star Wars. RIP Osama. He was a great warrior defending Afganistan against Soviet Union. Now he was old and only an icon and americans decided now would be good time to play Osama card to give something to american people. Or did Obama need that victory?

Gongrats to americans for achieving "some kind of victory"!



NOW I'M TRULY ANGRY!!!!!! He was less then 2 weeks older that I am!
OLD???? That's not old. Come visit me and this "old" geezer will kick your a$$!!!!!! OLD INDEED!!!! WHAT DO YOU THINK I AM? SOME KIND OF GEEZER OR OMETHING? WHERE'S MY SHOT GUN?

_____________________________


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Post #: 106
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 8:12:56 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar








No it won't. Nor as funny. It generally is masked as something "benevolent". And saying something like "We're here to help". and "This is for your own good".

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Post #: 107
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 8:14:43 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shellshock


quote:

ORIGINAL: henhute6

This whole thing is just a great hoax.




Been seeing a lot of sour grapes along these lines from the Finns on other boards lately. They seeme disappointed or annoyed that Bin Laden is no more.


Come on guys. Noone is actually disappointed or annoyed that OBL is dead. This is ridiculous.

This propaganda/hoax is so blatant... but move on, believe the official media/gov propaganda with its ties into the secret service/corporate/industrialmiltarycomplex morass. Be ruled by banksters, war criminals and members of obscure "student fraternities".. if the (your) founding fathers knew...

@Erkki: It's not nice to post in finnish, i don't post German, too. Here's the translation (google): Mostly amused by the celebration from the U.S.. Their attitude is not always at work, and then wonder why all that hate them. One hundred percent self-inflicted, and even just to pay ..

I have to say, you can't blame people for the mistakes of their leaders.



You can if they selected them. Or at least I'm honest enough to.

_____________________________


(in reply to Telumar)
Post #: 108
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 8:18:14 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		What I will find interesting is how many lower tier AQ members can now be eliminated now that OBL is gone. I imagine a fair number of AQ members were being monitored and simply allowed to continue to operate in the continuing effort to gather intel on the whereabouts of OBL. Now that OBL is gone I imagine their utility for that Intel is no longer needed.

What I also find interesting is what is being said/not said about Pakistani Govt involvement. IMO the local police chief was likely bought and paid for by OBL. However at a National level the Pakistani Government was likely notified of an op in progress so as to minimize the chance of an unneeded intercept/confrontation. Publicly however to provide cover for the Pakistani Government due to its internal politics the US Admin denies any such notification.

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(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 109
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 8:39:26 PM   
vinnie71

 

Posts: 964
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

What I will find interesting is how many lower tier AQ members can now be eliminated now that OBL is gone. I imagine a fair number of AQ members were being monitored and simply allowed to continue to operate in the continuing effort to gather intel on the whereabouts of OBL. Now that OBL is gone I imagine their utility for that Intel is no longer needed.

What I also find interesting is what is being said/not said about Pakistani Govt involvement. IMO the local police chief was likely bought and paid for by OBL. However at a National level the Pakistani Government was likely notified of an op in progress so as to minimize the chance of an unneeded intercept/confrontation. Publicly however to provide cover for the Pakistani Government due to its internal politics the US Admin denies any such notification.


More than elimination in the physical sense, the biggest blow was to morale. There will be a short surge in recruitment due to his 'martyrdom' but if America can land another such blow in the near future, it may as well fatally injure AQ. In a way, it was the system used when battling terrorism in Europe (look at how the Italians dealt with the Brigate Rosse or to take an extreme case, how many areas in Europe failed to produce resistance movements during WWII). Essentially it becomes a question of maintaining momentum taking out the important heads, depriving the rest of leadership or that 'organisational glue' that such organisations need. Another bigger blow could be dealt if they can unravel the money trails that feed into the organisation.

As to the Pakistanis, the government has long played an ambivalent role. It is well known that it has used the Taliban for their own uses like when they were hired as mercenaries to provoke trouble in Kashmir. They are also fearful of the fact that the west has more in common and more sympathy with India, its greatest rival, while it is the west that buys Pakistani wares. Besides the army and security apparatus is deeply divided on their role in society and what Pakistan should look like. Which is why they constantly woo the Chinese who in the end use them for their own purposes (but still are their major competitors). Pakistan is walking a tightrope internally and internationally but frankly I would interpret the US stand on not informing Pakistan of the operation as a snub - ie indirectly pointing out that Pakistani secret services are riddled with informers and supporters of extreme islam and couldn't be trusted not to alert the intended victim of the raid. Despite all the diplomatic niceties, that would be my interpretation (after all carrying out an armed attack in another country is the most flagrant breach of soverignity immaginable), but sufficiently hazy as not to ruffle international feathers.

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 110
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 9:04:53 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

You can if they selected them. Or at least I'm honest enough to.


Not if the only options were Idiot #1 and Idiot #2.


_____________________________

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(in reply to vinnie71)
Post #: 111
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 9:11:22 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		I think the important thing is we got him. Took us a long time but in the end he achieved room temperature. The lesson for the rest of them is they are on our list and one day we will get them too. ;)

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Post #: 112
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 9:22:17 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


quote:

You can if they selected them. Or at least I'm honest enough to.


Not if the only options were Idiot #1 and Idiot #2.



There are other options. A free man should be able to figure them out. If you don't take options (like becoming politically involved yourself) then yes , you get what you deserve. And no sympathy from me.

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Post #: 113
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 10:09:15 PM   
PresterJohn001


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/11/2009
Status: offline 		I think killed whilst resisting arrest (and hiding behind a woman) then buried at sea is just about the optimum outcome.

I don't think that civilised nations should use the death sentence, but i do think he deserved it, go figure, its a complicated world.

Good riddance to scum.

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 114
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 10:43:40 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: henhute6

World seems to be quite surprised why americans are celebrating. Why not? They have been taught to think OBL as their biggest enemy. I believe OBL is only stronger now, like Ben Kenobi in Star Wars. RIP Osama. He was a great warrior defending Afganistan against Soviet Union. Now he was old and only an icon and americans decided now would be good time to play Osama card to give something to american people. Or did Obama need that victory?

Gongrats to americans for achieving "some kind of victory"!



NOW I'M TRULY ANGRY!!!!!! He was less then 2 weeks older that I am!
OLD???? That's not old. Come visit me and this "old" geezer will kick your a$$!!!!!! OLD INDEED!!!! WHAT DO YOU THINK I AM? SOME KIND OF GEEZER OR OMETHING? WHERE'S MY SHOT GUN?



I LOVE YOU, MAN!!!

_____________________________

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"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 115
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 10:49:36 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		I think we all owe Steve a debt of gratitude for providing some fine training to the navy SEALs. Clearly, his 'letting' them hit the back of his head with a paddle served its purpose in training them up. Thanks, Steve, for offering your head in this fashion.

Will you be offering your head to find Al-Queda's number 2 (Zawahari) as well?

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Post #: 116
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 10:56:34 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Seriously, I can't believe this thread has degenerated so quickly when it SHOULD be focussed on congratulating the ONE MAN who made getting Osama Bin Laden possible.... No, not Steve training the SEALs by letting them hit him repeatedly in the head

I speak here of course of Chuck Norris who has just come back from " a short vacation". Coincidence? I think not.


Obviously plausible deniability will be maintained and the 160th SOAR and SEALs and CIA and satellites will be named as the means by which he was found and killed but that's just cover for THE NORRIS!!!!!




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/3/2011 10:57:06 PM >

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Post #: 117
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 11:04:46 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


quote:

You can if they selected them. Or at least I'm honest enough to.


Not if the only options were Idiot #1 and Idiot #2.



There are other options. A free man should be able to figure them out. If you don't take options (like becoming politically involved yourself) then yes , you get what you deserve. And no sympathy from me.


If you take other options, then you will not be responsible for electing the idiots. And are free of blame.

Because no matter what other options there are, only one of the two idiots will ever get elected.




< Message edited by Mynok -- 5/3/2011 11:06:06 PM >

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Post #: 118
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 11:10:03 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Seriously, I can't believe this thread has degenerated so quickly when it SHOULD be focussed on congratulating the ONE MAN who made getting Osama Bin Laden possible.... No, not Steve training the SEALs by letting them hit him repeatedly in the head

I speak here of course of Chuck Norris who has just come back from " a short vacation". Coincidence? I think not.


Obviously plausible deniability will be maintained and the 160th SOAR and SEALs and CIA and satellites will be named as the means by which he was found and killed but that's just cover for THE NORRIS!!!!!




I am surprised it did not degenerate faster. I remain puzzled at players who are so deaply cynical of the US who profess to play a naval wargame that pits Japan against (predominantly) the US. If they so distrust the world's oldest functioning democracy, what must they think of the wartime leadership of Japan? With whom do the identify and why when playing?

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 119
RE: OT - They got Osama - 5/3/2011 11:17:40 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Wirraway Ace,
Aye, I wasn't surprised it degenerated. These things always do. The pity is that when the two extremes pitch in the moderate people on either side ( supporting the US but not unquestioningly and questioning it legitimately sometiems ) lose out to the extremists on both sides and no rational discussion is possible.

Hence my Chuck Norris post. If we're going to be ludicrous we might as well be completely ludicrous and, hopefully, remind people not to feed the trolls --- although it probably WAS Chuck Norris

America is far from perfect but neither is it a demon. Just like everything else it has good and bad. The problem is that when moderates on both sides try to point this out either the "US is Satan" crowd or the "America Roolz, if you post anything negative I'll attack you" crowd pile in and destroy reasonable discussion. It is what it is. The internet isn't really a place for reasonable discussion as there are no significant barriers to entry or curbs on behaviour. Hell, even on this forum which was moderated fairly well it has recently, since jwilkerson left and we no longer have a moderator ) become possible to call a whole bunch of people brainless, unwashed, unlaid lieing weasels and get away with it so we're screwed in terms of long-term debate. The extremes will gain traction and the middle will lose out, as it always does.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/3/2011 11:18:42 PM >

_____________________________

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Well, that's that settled then.

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Post #: 120
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