RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/28/2012 7:39:27 PM

Icedawg

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I'm joining this excellent AAR a bit late, so please excuse me for digging this up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

My main transport will be the Ki-57-I and eventually the Ki-57-II. I decided on larger capacity vs. the extra hex range. My reason for this is that if I need range, the Tina will do splendidly. The Ki-59 is garbage. There are 36 of them and they will all go to the 4 chutai in Manchuoko for training. That's about all they are good for. The Ki-56 and MC-21 are good aircraft and will be used until depleted.

The Thalia has a capacity of 2000 and a range of 12. The Topsy has a capacity of 2300 and a range of 11. Since the game treats these capacities as being identical (anything less than 8k = 1 supply point, 8k-11999 = 2 supply points, 12k-15999 = 3 supply points etc) why not use the Thalia?

Or am I mistaken on how capacity works?

< Message edited by Icedawg -- 1/28/2012 7:40:28 PM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/28/2012 7:41:05 PM

Grfin Zeppelin

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Topsy uses an outdated engine while Thalia demands your precious.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/28/2012 7:54:37 PM

Icedawg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gr�fin Zeppelin

Topsy uses an outdated engine while Thalia demands your precious.

Very good point. I usually think only in terms of "which aircraft is better". But if the difference is only a matter of 1 hex on the range, maybe in this case it's smart to go with the relatively unused Nak-5 engine.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/28/2012 7:56:16 PM

Mike Solli

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That's it, GZ. Right now I'm building the Topsy I, which is using up the Ha-5 engine in the pool. That gives me those aircraft for half price in HI. I'll use up those engines and then shut off IJA transport production for a long time while they are being used. I'm also using up inventories of Ki-56 and MC-21. Those chutai will eventually upgrade to the Topsy when their numbers are depleted. The 36 Ki-59s are in the 4x chutai in Manchuoko training pilots. They'll last a long time. For me, it's all a matter of conserving HI. I'd also rather have the extra capacity. For range I use the Tina.

Icedawg, your comments may be accurate for supply, but not necessarily for transporting pax/equipment, which has varying sizes. I tend to move troops around a lot by air.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/28/2012 8:08:29 PM

Icedawg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

That's it, GZ. Right now I'm building the Topsy I, which is using up the Ha-5 engine in the pool. That gives me those aircraft for half price in HI. I'll use up those engines and then shut off IJA transport production for a long time while they are being used. I'm also using up inventories of Ki-56 and MC-21. Those chutai will eventually upgrade to the Topsy when their numbers are depleted. The 36 Ki-59s are in the 4x chutai in Manchuoko training pilots. They'll last a long time. For me, it's all a matter of conserving HI. I'd also rather have the extra capacity. For range I use the Tina.

Icedawg, your comments may be accurate for supply, but not necessarily for transporting pax/equipment, which has varying sizes. I tend to move troops around a lot by air.

I didn't realize it mattered for troops. I assumed it was just "one plane = one device". But you know what happens when you assume things ......

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/28/2012 8:15:20 PM

Mike Solli

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I'm not sure if you can stick 2 like devices in one plane. But if the device is too big, you won't stick any on that plane.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/28/2012 8:21:18 PM

Icedawg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I'm not sure if you can stick 2 like devices in one plane. But if the device is too big, you won't stick any on that plane.

I just checked out section 7.2.4 (transporting troops) of the manual and it just says that a device having a load cost greater than 7 cannot be air dropped (onto enemy base) and a device having a load cost greater than 9 cannot be air transported (to a friendly airfield). It (the manual) doesn't say anything about the significance of the plane's capacity when transporting troops. (Although it would stand to reason that it should.)

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/28/2012 8:24:50 PM

Mike Solli

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Interesting. I never looked that closely at air transportation/air drops. I do recall that recently I air transported the 4 Fleet HQ from Truk to Rabaul using Tinas. No more than 1 device was transported per plane per day.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/28/2012 8:39:35 PM

Icedawg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Interesting. I never looked that closely at air transportation/air drops. I do recall that recently I air transported the 4 Fleet HQ from Truk to Rabaul using Tinas. No more than 1 device was transported per plane per day.

Yeah, that's the pattern I've noted. From what I've seen, capacity doesn't really seem to matter. I'll try a test using aircraft of different capacity ratings and see if there's any difference in what they transport.

I don't think I'll have much time now. We've got company coming over for dinner and the wife is already a bit displeased that I'm here at my computer while she's working away in the kitchen.

I'll try to get to it tomorrow morning and will report back.

If you don't hear from me tomorrow and you catch some headline along the lines of "Wife Kills Husband At Computer Station", you'll know I at least tried.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/28/2012 9:02:12 PM

Elladan

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From what limited experience I have with them at least the bigger ones, like Tabby or Emily do transport more than one device. I have seen Tabbys moving 1 infantry and 1 support squad per plane per turn. So perhaps there is a treshold at some load capacity value? Would be great if someone knows the formula.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/28/2012 9:41:23 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Pax, I do too. To me subs are more an intel platform than an offensive platform. I like to see where the enemy ships are headed and if I can safely knock one off here and there, that much better.

I actually prefer that they don't.

I'm about the silent service. I don't want to spook the "game". I prefer to send bigger 'dogs' into the party.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Whenever I do an op with KB, I like to place subs between the AO and the nearest enemy base, just for that reason. I have 8 subs pretty much dedicated to KB.

Yep. Or more. I also use the subs to retreive downed pilots.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/28/2012 9:54:23 PM

Grfin Zeppelin

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I read drowned pilots and thought wut ? O.o

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/28/2012 10:02:16 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gr�fin Zeppelin

I read drowned pilots and thought wut ? O.o

LOL

<I had to re-read what I wrote ... was afraid I had spelt drowned!

>

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 12:07:28 AM

Mike Solli

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Freudian slip.

Do you guys (Edit: and ladies

) think subs really rescue many pilots? I guess it can't hurt.

About the larger transports - I believe I read about different units having different load values. That might have been back in WitP or even farther back. Been playing some version of this game for a good number of years now.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 12:13:20 AM

Mike Solli

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10 Jan 42

This was a "slow" turn even though there was a lot to do. I had 3 Oscars shot down over China but no pilots were lost. (Getting real lucky on those die rolls, plus it doesn't hurt to fight over your own territory.)

I landed at various places. I'll attack Macassar and Lae tomorrow.

I think KB snuck away from Rabaul successfully. Ted should have put subs north of Rabaul.

I moved subs to some other locations to see if they can see anything.

Definitely something brewing at San Francisco. Three ASW TFs out and two more TFs in port. I may send a couple more subs from the Hawaii area east to snoop around.

Ted isn't moving any of the ground units in the clear in China. I count a total of 42 units that may be cut off.

Other than that, just more of the same.

Edit: What am I thinking?! I took Lae this turn. I have 2x chutai of Zeros and a naval Babs chutai there.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 1/29/2012 12:14:07 AM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 12:23:27 AM

Mike Solli

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I was reading Cribtop's AAR and GZ made a comment about the uselessness of Lilys with the change in bombing effectiveness. A few days ago I shut off Lily production. I've decided (tentatively) not to restart it. Currently, I have 44 Lilys and 36 Sallys in the pool. I'm going to let the Lily pool deplete and then start converting Lily sentai into Sallys (or Helens if the Lily pool holds out a couple more months). I haven't converted the Lily factory yet. Still contemplating what to change it to. Suggestions are always welcome.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 12:33:14 AM

vicberg

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I like the Lillie. I find myself replacing a lot less of them than Sallies. I want to keep my squadrons effective, especially in China, where they can have such a big impact. Single engine Jap Bombers are a waste. Don't want to increase Sallie production to 150 in order to convert, plus the engines, so the Lillie for me is a good step up from Sonia, Ida, Ann, Crap. Many of the single engine already upgrade to Lillie, so don't have to spend the major PP cost.

Mike, you mentioned buying out the Hiyru squadron. What did you mean by that? Sorry to ask, but I'm starting to wonder if there's something I'm not aware of.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 12:39:39 AM

Mike Solli

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Hi vicberg. If an air unit is destroyed, you can buy it back using PPs. I believe it is 5 PP per plane in capacity. The Hiryu's daitai were all 18 planes and each costs 90 PPs to buy back. All you get is the shell. No planes and obviously no pilots.

I'll have to check to see which CEA air units can upgrade to the Lily. You're right, the Lily is better than 1E planes (I think).

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 12:42:59 AM

Mike Solli

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I found the 45 Sentai (27 plane capacity) can upgrade to the Lily without paying the 75 PP penalty. Hmmm....

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 12:47:46 AM

vicberg

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Yea, don't need to spend 75pp to upgrade outside the chain of command it's definately a step up in range and payload.

Wow, I've played this game for years and never knew that. Where do you find destroyed units? Tracker? Within the game? Geez, this game is fricken deep.

Mandrake was joking about throwing out the contents of his fridge because the expiration dates were beyond his campaign date. LOL. I think I can relate.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 12:52:11 AM

Mike Solli

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Go to the intel screen and click on air unit losses. At the bottom of the screen is a button for destroyed air units. Click on it. That will show you the units and PP cost to replace them. Right click on the unit you want to return. You'll get it 30-180 days later.

This may only be available in the beta.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 1:05:29 AM

vicberg

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I like 75pp. I would rather use the Lillie and get more bang for the buck and pull out Air Support, Arty, Construction, Troops. Lillie is fine for what's it worth, which is a LOT better than Crap 1Es.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 1:09:07 AM

Mike Solli

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I use the 1E bombers, but cautiously. I try not to put them in harms way. The really rotten ones are just used for training. Some of the others I'll use in China initially as well as ASW. Depends on the bomb load for ASW. I try to find a use for everything. It's difficult at times.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 1:19:05 AM

vicberg

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I use the 1Es that I haven't upgrade almost exclusively for ASW. The Ann, I'll throw into an attack. I don't know why, but I like the Ann better than the Sonia. Sonia is awful. For most, I put them on 60% ASW and 40% training, or 100% ASW training if no threat. Manchuko 1Es are my ground strike trainers. They may not be affective in nailing subs (initially), but they are good at spotting them. But I have around 4-5 Lillie squadrons after upgrades and I'm happy with them in China.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 2:37:10 AM

ny59giants

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Airframe production - I think it might be a good idea to plot out your airframe factories for the whole game. In my next game as Japan (which is years away), I will list all the factories and plot on what I am going to do with each. I'm playing Scenario 2 now, so I have more options.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 3:29:16 AM

Mike Solli

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Michael, I have a pretty good idea what I want to do with most of my air units. What to do with the Lily is still not clear to me. I may just wait for the Helen and convert it to that airframe. I'm still debating whether or not to turn it back on. I could use them as training aircraft in Manchuoko once my Sally Ic run out. I've had more op losses with them than I thought would happen. I've already used 7 or 8 of the 46 in the pool.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 4:03:07 AM

Mike Solli

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11 Jan 42

Sub War

The I-26 caught an unescorted xAK off Los Angeles and put a torpedo into her. She was either empty or hauling supply. She was reported as sunk.

5 Fleet

Adak's airfield refused to reach level 1. It's stuck at 0.98. Sheesh.

4 Fleet

Wake achieved level 3 forts. Two engineer battalions do the trick.

SE Fleet

The Wakaba finally was able to leave Rabaul today after having spent 3 days coming to readiness from pierside. Her top speed is only 8 kts. It's going to take a while for her to get to Truk, let alone the Home Islands. I wonder if the ARD at Truk can do anything for her....

KB successfully snuck away and is 1 hex out of Truk. I'll rethink the Pt. Moresby invasion. I hate leaving it in Ted's hands. Eventually, he'll overwhelm me with air power from there. Right now he has recon and A-24s there. No fighters. I'm bombing the airfield with little effect other than to prevent him from building forts.

SRA

I successfully took Makassar in a DA with the 21 Division and an independent engineer regiment. Losses were 44(0) for me and 1362(95) Dutch. Ted was up to his normal tricks again. He sent the CL Danae to ambush the invasion fleet but ran into my escort TF of 4 BB and 1 DD. She got away pretty quickly but caught 2x 14" and 1x 5" rounds. Only one 14" shell penetrated and it destroyed one of Danae's 6" turrets. I assume she'll survive but she ain't happy. By the way, the Danae was and still is showing up as sunk.

The infrastructure was intact at Manpower 2(0) and Resources 20(0). These resources (and all of the other islands in the area) will ship their dirt to Java for conversion to HI.

There are a couple of TFs hanging out in Soerabaja harbor (which is mined). I have a couple of subs sitting offshore in case they decide to do something funny. The Zuiho and Hosho are just off Balikpapan out of range and waiting for Ryujo. When she teams up with them, they'll move to 7 hexes away and attempt to launch an air strike. One of the TFs is a single ship. I hope it's Repulse. By the way, PoW and 4 US BBs are still showing up as sunk. I doubt the PoW is sunk because she only took 2 torpedo hits early in the war.

I'm still waiting for Tobali to reach a level 1 airfield so I can put Yamada Det there and start the War of Dutch Attrition. I landed a construction battalion. That should speed things up. I discovered that Zeros can reach Kalidjati from Singkawang within normal drop tank range. I sent a sweep mission tomorrow. Hopefully, it'll draw some Dutch fighters and I can begin getting my TRACOM pilots.

Philippines

I track the Allied unit strength each day. They're slowly getting weaker overall. It'll be awhile though.

China

I had something really strange and absolutely amazing happen. The AVG showed up over Wuchang today. 9x H81-A3s showed up and 7 Oscars and 3 Nates rose to greet them. The amazing thing was that my Oscars shot two of them down for the loss of one Oscar and no lost pilots. Banzai! What was really amazing and really strange was that they were bomber pilots! Their average air stat was ~30-35. Somehow I converted an Ann chutai to Oscars. I moved them to Shanghai, pulled out the bomber pilots and replaced them with a fighter pilot and rookies. They're now a training chutai. The two pilots that shot down the AVG planes had Air stats of 30 and 34!

Go figure.

Burma

The Rangoon rail line is severed. Rangoon and it's 4 units is cut off.

Malaya

I just realized that I sent only 3 of the 4 divisions to Singapore. The 3 divisions arrive tomorrow. I switched them to combat mode so they aren't too trashed. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 1/29/2012 4:04:41 AM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 4:24:00 AM

Mike Solli

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Here's China. The encirclement is coming along nicely.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 11:23:32 AM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

...once my Sally Ic run out. I've had more op losses with them than I thought would happen. I've already used 7 or 8 of the 46 in the pool.

Watch your Sally Ic pool. You need them to convert several of the 1E bomber groups to 2E without PP penalty.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 1/29/2012 1:17:42 PM

Mike Solli

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They use the Sally Ic? You can't use anything else?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)