Reinforcements Question (NO COLCATHCART PLEASE)

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Reinforcements Question (NO COLCATHCART PLEASE)

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Reinforcements Question (NO COLCATHCART PLEASE) - 11/29/2011 11:57:24 AM

TommyBoy84

Posts: 105
Joined: 2/22/2008
Status: offline

2 days ago in my CHS 159 PBEM game, my aircraft reinforcement schedule said I was going to have one group of B-17D's and one group of B-17E's arriving the next day. The D's arrived, but the E's didn't, and were nowhere to be found on the list of aircraft groups.

We're on +/- 60 day variability for reinforcements. I always thought the reinforcements were determined before the gameplay started, and that the arrival dates were still accurate on the intelligence page.... just with the predetermined variability adjustments.

Did the E's not show up due to variability? Should I expect them later? Or does this sound like a minor bug?

Post #: 1

RE: Reinforcements Question (NO COLCATHCART PLEASE) - 11/30/2011 8:25:23 AM

kmitahj

Posts: 100
Joined: 4/25/2011
Status: offline

Could be a bug but before declare it as such I would double-check for the air group both on the air reinforcement list and on the list of all on map airgroups. Write down the name of the missing airgroup and then sort down both lists by the name and check carefully only for it ignoring both aircraft type and location.
If you won't find the airgroup on either of lists then it is definitely a bug - serious and new one. Honestly I would be surprised if that is the case - not that 1.806 may be considered bug-free, I just think its bugs are mostly well-knwon.
If you find it on reinforcement list, somewhere in the (far?) future then it is likely still a bug - just different one

, but if you find it on the on-map list in different location and/or equipped with different aircraft type then there may be explanation as disputed in this Aircraft Reinforcements and Pools thread. Though allied reinforcement groups do not draw planes form the pool there is still a chance that if the pool is depleted incoming group will be auto-downgraded to the lesser aircraft type. I'm not sure if it apply to all groups but apparently such behaviour is known to allied players.

EDIT: almost perfect sync, rominet

< Message edited by kmitahj -- 11/30/2011 8:44:24 AM >

(in reply to TommyBoy84)

Post #: 2

RE: Reinforcements Question (NO COLCATHCART PLEASE) - 11/30/2011 8:25:49 AM

rominet

Posts: 523
Joined: 10/23/2007
From: Paris
Status: offline

Hi

how many B-17E did you have in pool just before reinforcement?

(in reply to TommyBoy84)

Post #: 3

RE: Reinforcements Question (NO COLCATHCART PLEASE) - 12/1/2011 7:38:42 AM

TommyBoy84

Posts: 105
Joined: 2/22/2008
Status: offline

10 B17-E's in the reserve pool, so not enough for the full 12-plane squadron. However, I had zero B-17D's in the pool, and I still got the full squadron of 12 B-17D's

(in reply to rominet)

Post #: 4

RE: Reinforcements Question (NO COLCATHCART PLEASE) - 12/4/2011 10:40:52 PM

rominet

Posts: 523
Joined: 10/23/2007
From: Paris
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyBoy84

10 B17-E's in the reserve pool, so not enough for the full 12-plane squadron. However, I had zero B-17D's in the pool, and I still got the full squadron of 12 B-17D's

This trouble is still not very clear; i think the best thing
you can do is to always have at least the correct number of planes in your pool.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kmitahj
EDIT: almost perfect sync, rominet

Sure

_____________________________

(in reply to TommyBoy84)

Post #: 5

RE: Reinforcements Question (NO COLCATHCART PLEASE) - 12/6/2011 6:22:52 PM

kmitahj

Posts: 100
Joined: 4/25/2011
Status: offline

Having some time I took a deeper look into the mechanics. Below I describe how (I believe) it works (does not neccessary equal to "why"

). However I must underscore that even though one may find exact mechanics interesting (i hope), from practical point of view the best advise to avoid troubles is - as rominet said - monitor your reinforcements list and make sure that at least a day before airgroup arrival your pool has enough planes (if neccessary downgrading temporarily one of existing groups).

Now the mechanics (apply to both sides unless stated otherwise): if the pool has not enough planes needed for newly arriving airgroup engine starts the procedure which try to figure out which replacement plane type to use based on the plane upgrade paths defined by scenario designer(s).
First procedure goes two steps up the requested plane upgrade path. If such plane upgrade is already available (as defined by aircraft avail date from scenario editor, possibly modified by R&D) and there is enough such planes in the pool job is done and incoming airgroup is auto-upgraded. If not procedure takes step back and make the same checks for a plane directly (one step) up in the requested plane upgrade path.
If both attempts fail procedure iterates over all plane types looking for one which directly upgrades to requested plane. First found (there maybe none or more then one of course) having enough planes in the pool is used to auto-downgrade airgroup.
If that step fails too procedure ends signaling failure to the engine. Here things differ for two sides. Generally speaking (there are some nuances involving nationalities of airgroup itself and HQ to which airgroup is attached to) allied airgroups for which replacement procedure failed are still mercifully allowed to enter the map using requested number of initially requested plane type. For japanese airgroup engine checks again if in pool are any planes of requested type and if so airgroup is allowed to enter a map with planes limited to the number in the pool. If pool is empty airgroup is hanging up waiting.

Now - applying the above to situation described in initial post - in CHS relevant upgrade paths look like that:
B-17D group: (none?) => B-17D => B-17E => B-24J
B-17E group: (B-18A, B-17D) => B-17E => B-24J => /self/
Assuming that "D" group was handled first (note that outcome maybe be different depending on the processing order which depends on the airgroup ids as defined by their positions in scenario editor list) procedure first goes two steps up to B-24J, finds out that model is not avail yet, backs down one step to B-17E, realise there is not enough of these planes in the pool and finally when it finds no plane type upgrade to B-17D model it signals failure to the engine which then notwithstanding allows the group to enter map with requested number of B-17D.
For "E" group procedure checks twice B-24J type (because it upgrade to itself) which as we saw already is not yet avail, and then iterating over all plane types finds that both B-18A Bolo and B-17D upgrade to B-17E. It chooses Bolo because it is first on the list (and then even if B-17D was first there is zero B-17D in the pool) and thus "E" group is auto-downgraded to Bolo...

(in reply to rominet)

Post #: 6

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Reinforcements Question (NO COLCATHCART PLEASE)

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