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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

 
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/1/2019 12:01:15 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		July 2, 1945

For the rest of the turn, the Allies again keep up the milk runs and I keep up the LR CAP. I usually back it off after a day, and I've noticed he keeps the bombing runs going and doesn't seem to change sweeps. So ...

Another gaggle of 1E bombers shot down and a good few P-51Ds as well. I'm going to back don today, but I'll keep a watch on what he changes if anything. The cat and mouse is going to get much more important in the days to come as Allied timelines shrink along with their airframe and pilot pools.

Johore troops continue to bombard and it doesn't look like anything is moving forward. Fuel, oil and resources still flowing up.

The DS moves down to around Taihoku. Curious where it's all headed now. Will they go to the DEI to get that sorted out?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR July 2, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near Bintan at 50,85

Japanese Ships
PB Toko Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Loggerhead

SS Loggerhead launches 6 torpedoes
Loggerhead bottoming out ....
Sub escapes detection

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Chichi-jima at 110,71

Japanese Ships
SC Ch 49, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SC Ch 25
SC Ch 11
xAK Tatsuho Maru
xAK Taibun Maru
xAK Sugiyama Maru
xAK Achou Maru
xAK Yosyu Maru
xAK Kasagi Maru
E Shiga

Allied Ships
SS Kraken, hits 2

SS Kraken launches 6 torpedoes at SC Ch 49
Kraken diving deep ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Shanghai , at 92,55

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 27 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 30

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 10

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-51D Mustang: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Shanghai , at 92,55

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 55 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 27

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 12
Corsair IV x 1
P-51D Mustang x 15
TBM-3 Avenger x 52

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair II: 3 destroyed
Corsair IV: 1 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 2 destroyed
TBM-3 Avenger: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged

Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x TBM-3 Avenger bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Shanghai , at 92,55

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 11

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 12
P-38L Lightning x 18
TBM-3 Avenger x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-51D Mustang: 1 destroyed
P-38L Lightning: 1 destroyed
TBM-3 Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x TBM-3 Avenger bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Shanghai , at 92,55

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 8

Allied aircraft
TBM-1C Avenger x 32

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 7 destroyed, 2 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
31 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Shanghai , at 92,55

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 73 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 1

Allied aircraft
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 12

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x SB2C-4 Helldiver releasing from 2000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Shanghai , at 92,55

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Allied aircraft
Corsair IV x 3
Liberator B.VI x 14
Liberator GR.VI x 9
A-20G Havoc x 12
A-26B Invader x 25
B-24J Liberator x 24
B-29-25 Superfort x 12
P-51D Mustang x 4
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 10
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 15
PBJ-1J Mitchell x 10
PV-1 Ventura x 3
PV-2 Harpoon x 12

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 2 damaged
A-26B Invader: 3 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 3 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 4 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 2 damaged
PV-1 Ventura: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 8
Runway hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x PBJ-1D Mitchell bombing from 13000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 16th Division, at 72,55 (Nanning)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Allied aircraft
A-26B Invader x 19
P-39N1 Airacobra x 7

Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 8 damaged
A-26B Invader: 2 destroyed by flak

Japanese ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x A-26B Invader bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Also attacking 48th Division ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 120th Division, at 50,83 (Johore Bahru)

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 5

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 12
Spitfire F.XIV x 15
Thunderbolt I x 4
Thunderbolt II x 6
B-24J Liberator x 14
A-20G Havoc x 12
P-40N5 Warhawk x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt II: 1 destroyed
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged
A-20G Havoc: 2 damaged
P-40N5 Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Johore Bahru (50,83)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 98759 troops, 1513 guns, 1389 vehicles, Assault Value = 2428

Defending force 56181 troops, 472 guns, 174 vehicles, Assault Value = 1478

Japanese ground losses:
73 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Allied ground losses:
38 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Assaulting units:
17th Motorised Division
20th Indian Division
2nd British Division
45th Indian Brigade
475th USA Regiment
268th Motorised Brigade
81st (West African) Division
Gardner's Horse Regiment
236th Combat Engineer Regiment
25th Indian Division
8th Indian Division
2/13th Field Regiment
2nd Indian Medium Regiment
134th (East Ang) Regiment
23rd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
20th Indian Heavy AA Regiment
55th Heavy Regiment
56th Heavy AA Regiment
12th Indian Heavy AA Regiment
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
2/9th Field Regiment
Southeast Asia
1st Indian Medium Regiment
3rd West African AA Regiment
88th Medium Regiment
XXXIV Indian Corps
III Indian Corps
181st Field Artillery Regiment
168th Field Artillery Regiment
3rd (Special Force) Division

Defending units:
44th Naval Guard Unit
4th Raiding Regiment
Kure 3rd SNLF
Yokosuka 4th SNLF /2
5th INA Regiment
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
49th Tank Battalion
4th Ind.Mixed Regiment
27th Ind.Mixed Brigade
2nd INA Gandhi Regiment
2nd Amphibious Brigade
65th Brigade
4th INA Nehru Regiment
29th Ind.Mixed Brigade
Sasebo 8th SNLF
26th Tank Regiment
120th Div /2
94th JAAF AF Bn
3rd Mortar Battalion
89th JAAF AF Bn
91st JAAF AF Bn
28th JAAF AF Bn
80th JAAF AF Bn
2nd South Seas Det. /1
1st RF Gun Battalion
201st JAAF AF Bn
105th JAAF AF Bn
17th JAAF AF Bn
23rd JAAF AF Bn /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3151
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/1/2019 1:17:07 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Not launching an immediate Nanning counterattack might be justified if you are confident follow up fresh Allied forces will not arrive this turn.  But if no reinforcements arrive this turn there is a strong case for launching a full Japanese air and land counterattack.

1.  Unadjusted Allied AV for this coming turn will be about half prior to the river crossing.

2.  The river crossing disclosed a disruption malus.  Both disruption and fatigue levels will be far worse this turn.  You can increase the pain by launching all available bombers to ground attack this turn.

3.  Even a failed Japanese counterattack will kill outright a lot of those disabled Allied devices.  The Allies will not be in a position to punish you for a failed attack.

4.  You only need to achieve an adjusted 2:1 AV to force a calamitous Allied retreat.  With a shock attack you will start the combat with that unadjusted ratio.  With so much Allied disabled the usual Allied firepower may not be able to pull that ratio back at the end of combat. 


Of course there is risk but the potential rewards are enormous.  Even if destroyed devices for each side cancel out, that is a Japanese VP victory.  An Allied retreat will see most of the disabled devices destroyed and all organic supply lost.  Restocking supply will impact on the Allied supply depots.  Just as importantly a forced Allied retreat will make this sector safe for Japan until well into August as Allied morale, fatigue and disruption recovers and time is used up preparing a methodical future advance.

Alfred

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3152
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/1/2019 1:59:31 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

While disablments are high, actual losses are light given the nature of the assault.

I see no reason to withdraw. The mere level 6 forts can be overcome rather quickly with the application of sufficient combat engineers.

Personally, I wouldn't have crossed directly into the base, but rather spent more time crossing into an adjacent hex.

Still, I see no reason why the follow on steamroller can't get the job done.

This is simply the cost of doing business.

I would also be diverting a portion of my force through the cultivated terrain on the coastal route to HK.
Sure the going is slow, but no slower than the secondary roads one is faced with after reaching Liuchow.


I completely agree with this if (and this is the if he can't control) I wouldn't be able to reinforce. As it stands, I can. With a good amount of high EXP troops.

My rule of thumb is that he needs at minimum three times the AV against a fortified x2 terrain hex. He will be well below that for a good while unless massive reinforcements cross after.

The route to HK is open. That is a decision on my part to encourage time commitment by the Allies. They may though choose to amphibiously transport troops from Haiphong too. We'll see.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 3153
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/1/2019 2:00:41 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Not launching an immediate Nanning counterattack might be justified if you are confident follow up fresh Allied forces will not arrive this turn.  But if no reinforcements arrive this turn there is a strong case for launching a full Japanese air and land counterattack.

1.  Unadjusted Allied AV for this coming turn will be about half prior to the river crossing.

2.  The river crossing disclosed a disruption malus.  Both disruption and fatigue levels will be far worse this turn.  You can increase the pain by launching all available bombers to ground attack this turn.

3.  Even a failed Japanese counterattack will kill outright a lot of those disabled Allied devices.  The Allies will not be in a position to punish you for a failed attack.

4.  You only need to achieve an adjusted 2:1 AV to force a calamitous Allied retreat.  With a shock attack you will start the combat with that unadjusted ratio.  With so much Allied disabled the usual Allied firepower may not be able to pull that ratio back at the end of combat. 


Of course there is risk but the potential rewards are enormous.  Even if destroyed devices for each side cancel out, that is a Japanese VP victory.  An Allied retreat will see most of the disabled devices destroyed and all organic supply lost.  Restocking supply will impact on the Allied supply depots.  Just as importantly a forced Allied retreat will make this sector safe for Japan until well into August as Allied morale, fatigue and disruption recovers and time is used up preparing a methodical future advance.

Alfred


I agree. I wish could pull the trigger. I just can't knowing those follow on units could cross as soon as tomorrow. With an added large bombing commitment I expect as well. He will get the benefit of the x2 terrain and even though disrupted, will still have a large force than the IJA in place.

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/2/2019 7:31:34 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3154
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/1/2019 2:39:46 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Here is China right now. I have 1,600AV at Hong Kong and 2,000AV at Canton.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3155
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/2/2019 8:00:39 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		July 3, 1945

On the 3rd the Allies continue methodically as before. It does look like the troops didn't cross into Nanning, so if I'd been bold enough I might have had a chance to kick them out. I was not. It does look like the Allies were vulnerable based on the shot below and bombardment results, but then their offensive bombardment also looked okay, so it might have gone either way. The IJA is using three siege gun units to bombard here, with two 30cm x4 units and one 24cm x6 unit. There are also three medium arty units with 15cm x 24 each. Not bad.

The Allies don't show movement back out of the hex, which is positive. I've begun sending in reinforcements from the North and from Liuchow; two more high EXP IDs. In the central area I have a further reserve of one tank division and 2-3 more IDs depending on what the Allies do near Shanghai and what the DS is doing, now passing near Southern Formosa.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR July 3, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nanning (72,55)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 6237 troops, 272 guns, 289 vehicles, Assault Value = 3314

Defending force 202447 troops, 2672 guns, 3571 vehicles, Assault Value = 4325

Allied ground losses:
135 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nanning (72,55)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 7492 troops, 308 guns, 259 vehicles, Assault Value = 4304

Defending force 133480 troops, 1281 guns, 802 vehicles, Assault Value = 3314

Japanese ground losses:
57 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
19 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/2/2019 8:01:41 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3156
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/2/2019 8:07:02 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Judging by the speed of travel and the rollover info, it doesn't seem like the DS is traveling with any amphibs here. Could be wrong, but I haven't seen ay at all over the past few days. The info is obviously not complete as I can't get a solid search result. Losing a lot of planes just keeping track of their position.

Is he moving it down to cut off resources and fuel from the DEI now? Is he supporting an invasion from the RN, and doesn't trust the RN DS to do that on its own (even though it's fully capable based on what I have in that area). Something else?

I'll keep looking at Northern China now if the DS is moving out. he's leaving that incursion somewhat more vulnerable, and I can sweep his bases to reduce CAP. His main base, Tungchow, on not on a rail network either. Hmmmmm.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3157
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/2/2019 8:14:42 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Another good show in the air as a LR CAP over the Malaya bases produced another 30+ bombers shot down. He's using the kitchen sink down here, with Beaufort VIII flying right next to B-25J11 and other more capable planes. The newer versions and 4Es do protect some of the more fragile variants in big strikes, but when more isolated (as against one group of Wellingtons this turn) the results are predictable. Still making pilots go KIA/MIA and still earning VPs while reducing pools.

I'll back off for a day while targeting a small Firefly group that has been needlessly harassing a defeated and retreating base force in middle Sumatra. Franks should have some fun with those if they fly next turn!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Johore Bahru , at 50,83

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 17
Ki-83 x 22
Ki-102b Randy x 6

Allied aircraft
B-25D Mitchell x 4
Liberator B.VI x 3
Wellington GR.XIII x 3
B-24J Liberator x 47
B-25J1 Mitchell x 3
B-25J11 Mitchell x 34

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D Mitchell: 1 damaged
Wellington GR.XIII: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 4 destroyed, 13 damaged
B-25J11 Mitchell: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
17 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 26
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 91

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-25D Mitchell bombing from 8000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Johore Bahru , at 50,83

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 7
Ki-83 x 6
Ki-102b Randy x 2

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 8
Wellington B.X x 3
Beaufort VIII x 15

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 7 damaged
Wellington B.X: 2 destroyed
Beaufort VIII: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x Beaufort VIII bombing from 8000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Johore Bahru , at 50,83

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 1
Ki-83 x 1
Ki-102b Randy x 1

Allied aircraft
Wellington GR.XIII x 12
B-24J Liberator x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington GR.XIII: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x Wellington GR.XIII bombing from 8000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3158
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/3/2019 7:59:24 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		July 4, 1945

A quieter turn. The Fireflies kept on to their target and were met this turn by a few Franks, which shot down 4-5 of the light bombers. These small battles are sometimes most satisfying.

The DS has cloaked. I turned off most of my search to avoid big losses, but now have to switch the lights back on. Can't find the beasts.

Major strikes at Singers and Johore were turned off and sweepers came over in force. This makes me think the LR CAP there has been having the desired effect. The bombardments on the ground continue, with the Allies having a slight advantage, but Japanese AV recovering well and virtually no fatigue or disruption among the troops. Allied AV is still a good 250 points below what s was before the initial attack.

At Nanning the bombardments of the IJA ultra-heavy arty are taking a toll. Notice the 40 point reduction in Allied AV between the Japanese and the Allied bombardment.

The Allies look to be changing their mind and moving nearby troops toward Pakhoi and Kwangchowan. I'll have a look further down the rail to see what he has coming. There is a good 250k of Allied troops at least unaccounted for that were in Burma. I'm guessing some of these will be transported through the straits at some point by ship. I'll have a deeper recon look to see if others are on the rail lines through Indochina.

The Allies up North try to bomb the fields at Hangchow which has had a significant AA upgrade. A good 12cm led regiment plus a big naval base force with 12.7DP guns and others now there. It'll be a struggle to keep hitting /Hangchow in addition to Shanghai with occasional LR CAP added, the good AA and the added CD gun defenses.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR July 4, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 4th JAAF AF Coy , at 45,86 , near Padang

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84r Frank x 3

Allied aircraft
Firefly F.I x 15

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Firefly F.I: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Firefly F.I bombing from 100 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hangchow , at 90,55

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 51 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Allied aircraft
F-6D Mustang x 18
P-38L Lightning x 15
TBM-1C Avenger x 25
TBM-3 Avenger x 23

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 6 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak
TBM-3 Avenger: 12 damaged
TBM-3 Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak

Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x TBM-3 Avenger bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nanning (72,55)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 6261 troops, 272 guns, 289 vehicles, Assault Value = 3362

Defending force 202983 troops, 2670 guns, 3563 vehicles, Assault Value = 4381

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
249 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 20 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 28 (15 destroyed, 13 disabled)

Assaulting units:
103rd Division
16th Division
5th Division
48th Division
105th Division
1st Ind. Engineer Regiment
55th Naval Guard Unit
70th Division
18th Division
2nd Division
91st Naval Guard Unit
56th Field AA Battalion
16th Army
112th AA Regiment
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
125th AA Regiment
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
5th Mortar Battalion
4th RF Gun Battalion
3rd RF Gun Battalion
24th JNAF AF Unit
38th Ind. Engineer Regiment
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Medium Mortar Battalion
11th Air Defense AA Battalion
34th Field AA Battalion
17th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
113th AA Regiment
1st Air Defense AA Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
115th AA Regiment
11th Shipping Engineer Regiment
6th RF Gun Battalion
1st JAAF Base Force
53rd Construction Battalion
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
88th JAAF AF Coy

Defending units:
3rd Cavalry Regiment
26th Indian Division
27th Infantry Division
1st New Chinese Corps
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
7th Australian Division
11th Indian Division
Provisionl Tank Brigade
754th Tank Battalion
Americal Infantry Division
7th Indian Division
14th Army Engineer Battalion
254th Armoured Brigade
150th RAC Regiment
6th Australian Division
255th Indian Tank Brigade
32nd Infantry Division
3rd New Chinese Corps
22nd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
18th SP Field Artillery Regiment
XXXIII Indian Corps
2nd Ceylon H AA Regiment
101st Heavy AA Regiment
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
17th Indian Light AA Regiment
2nd Indian AA Bde
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
170 Wing
77th Coast AA Regiment
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
2/11th Field Regiment
122nd British AT Gun Regiment
8th Mahratta AT Gun Regiment
134th Medium Regiment
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
86th Coast AA Regiment
21st Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
134th Field Artillery Battalion
6th Medium Regiment
184th USAAF Base Force
29th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
185 Wing
1st RM Heavy AA Regiment
1/198th Coast AA Battalion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nanning (72,55)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 7480 troops, 308 guns, 259 vehicles, Assault Value = 4340

Defending force 134025 troops, 1281 guns, 801 vehicles, Assault Value = 3362

Japanese ground losses:
62 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 33 (1 destroyed, 32 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Johore Bahru (50,83)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 99642 troops, 1523 guns, 1399 vehicles, Assault Value = 2484

Defending force 57425 troops, 473 guns, 277 vehicles, Assault Value = 1549

Japanese ground losses:
117 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
46 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
268th Motorised Brigade
236th Combat Engineer Regiment
25th Indian Division
20th Indian Division
81st (West African) Division
45th Indian Brigade
17th Motorised Division
475th USA Regiment
Gardner's Horse Regiment
2nd British Division
8th Indian Division
14th Army
12th Indian Heavy AA Regiment
88th Medium Regiment
134th (East Ang) Regiment
3rd West African AA Regiment
1st Indian Medium Regiment
168th Field Artillery Regiment
2/13th Field Regiment
55th Heavy Regiment
20th Indian Heavy AA Regiment
XXXIV Indian Corps
181st Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Indian Medium Regiment
2/9th Field Regiment
56th Heavy AA Regiment
Southeast Asia
6th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
23rd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
III Indian Corps
3rd (Special Force) Division

Defending units:
4th Tank Regiment
26th Tank Regiment
4th Ind.Mixed Regiment
Yokosuka 4th SNLF /2
2nd Amphibious Brigade
4th Raiding Regiment
44th Naval Guard Unit
2nd INA Gandhi Regiment
5th INA Regiment
65th Brigade
27th Ind.Mixed Brigade
Sasebo 8th SNLF
4th INA Nehru Regiment
Kure 3rd SNLF
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
29th Ind.Mixed Brigade
49th Tank Battalion
120th Div /2
1st RF Gun Battalion
201st JAAF AF Bn
17th JAAF AF Bn
28th JAAF AF Bn
80th JAAF AF Bn
94th JAAF AF Bn
3rd Mortar Battalion
89th JAAF AF Bn
91st JAAF AF Bn
2nd South Seas Det. /1
105th JAAF AF Bn
23rd JAAF AF Bn /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/3/2019 8:02:33 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3159
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/7/2019 9:18:44 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		July 5, 1945

A decent turn. The surprise CAP near Lao Chai works. The Allies send over a hundred 2E into a maelstrom of CAP. Losses are heavy. The Japanese losses would have been very light if not for the huge number of very good pilots deciding it was a great day to die for the Emperor and ramming the B-25s head on.

Also got a hold of another advance tank unit and gave it a good licking. The Allies will take Pakhoi next turn, and seem content with that track for now. No extra troops heading to Nanning. The bombardments there take a toll on the Allied troops. I just moved another 28cm heavy side arty unit into the hex.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR July 5, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 2nd USMC Tank Battalion, at 73,58 , near Pakhoi

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 50
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 5
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 5
Ki-83 x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 54 (8 destroyed, 46 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 2nd USMC Tank Battalion, at 73,58 , near Pakhoi

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 41 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 20

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 19 (2 destroyed, 17 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 2nd USMC Tank Battalion, at 73,58 , near Pakhoi

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 25

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 15 (2 destroyed, 13 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 54th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 66,53 , near Lao Cai

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 8
N1K5-J George x 9
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 18
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 12
Ki-83 x 18
Ki-84r Frank x 17
Ki-100-II Tony x 27

Allied aircraft
B-25D Mitchell x 7
B-25D1 Mitchell x 3
B-25J1 Mitchell x 12
B-25J11 Mitchell x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 4 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D Mitchell: 1 destroyed
B-25J1 Mitchell: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged
B-25J11 Mitchell: 7 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-25D Mitchell bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Banzai! - Goto B. in a Ki-84r Frank rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Ginowa R. in a Ki-84r Frank rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Bunkichi M. in a Ki-84r Frank rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Kawai D. in a Ki-84r Frank rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Kawahara K. in a Ki-100-II Tony rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Kikuchi E. in a Ki-100-II Tony rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Degawa K. in a Ki-100-II Tony rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Shirahama V. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Hanzawa H. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Kobayashi R. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Akashiba O. in a N1K5-J George rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Sagara G. in a N1K5-J George rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Kaoki A. in a Ki-84r Frank rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Kizuka U. in a Ki-84r Frank rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Fuchida E. in a Ki-84r Frank rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor

(Umm ... I think these guys are getting a little carried away here. All of those planes do have guns. And those are good pilots too. )

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 54th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 66,53 , near Lao Cai

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 27 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 8
N1K5-J George x 4
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 12
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 12
Ki-83 x 9
Ki-84r Frank x 2
Ki-100-II Tony x 17

Allied aircraft
Wellington B.X x 20

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington B.X: 10 destroyed, 7 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Wellington B.X bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 54th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 66,53 , near Lao Cai

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 3
N1K5-J George x 4
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 8
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 9
Ki-83 x 3
Ki-84r Frank x 1
Ki-100-II Tony x 15

Allied aircraft
Wellington B.X x 8

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington B.X: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Wellington B.X bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 54th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 66,53 , near Lao Cai

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 1
N1K5-J George x 2
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 4
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 1
Ki-83 x 1
Ki-84r Frank x 1
Ki-100-II Tony x 7

Allied aircraft
B-25D1 Mitchell x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Banzai! - Dohibara O. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a B-25D1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Kado R. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a B-25D1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Ikeda J. in a N1K5-J George rams a B-25D1 Mitchell for the Emperor


(Three fighters ram two bombers???)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 54th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 66,53 , near Lao Cai

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 8
N1K5-J George x 7
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 16
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 11
Ki-83 x 15
Ki-84r Frank x 10
Ki-100-II Tony x 19

Allied aircraft
B-25J1 Mitchell x 15
B-25J11 Mitchell x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-83: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-25J1 Mitchell: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
B-25J11 Mitchell: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-25J11 Mitchell bombing and strafing from low level *
Ground Attack: 1 plane(s) with no ordnance (Odd)
Ground Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Banzai! - Okajima F. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Kira B. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Ochi N. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Goto R. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Fuchida B. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Kabase O. in a Ki-83 rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Kabase J. in a Ki-83 rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor
Banzai! - Nakasawa B. in a N1K5-J George rams a B-25J1 Mitchell for the Emperor



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 55th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 73,60 (Kwangchowan)

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 7

Allied aircraft
A-26B Invader x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x A-26B Invader bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
17th Sentai with Ki-83 (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(7 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11530 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 11530.
Raid is overhead

Banzai! - Mitsumori F. in a Ki-83 rams a A-26B Invader for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 54th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 66,53 , near Lao Cai

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 8
N1K5-J George x 6
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 4
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 7
Ki-83 x 7
Ki-84r Frank x 10
Ki-100-II Tony x 19

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 4 destroyed, 4 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 4000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 54th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 66,53 , near Lao Cai

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 4
N1K5-J George x 3
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 2
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 2
Ki-83 x 2
Ki-84r Frank x 1
Ki-100-II Tony x 4

Allied aircraft
B-25J11 Mitchell x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-25J11 Mitchell: 4 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nanning (72,55)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 6261 troops, 272 guns, 288 vehicles, Assault Value = 3391

Defending force 203272 troops, 2669 guns, 3545 vehicles, Assault Value = 4426

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 11 (1 destroyed, 10 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
255 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 26 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 18 disabled
Guns lost 10 (2 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Vehicles lost 12 (5 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Assaulting units:
103rd Division
70th Division
16th Division
2nd Division
55th Naval Guard Unit
18th Division
5th Division
48th Division
105th Division
1st Ind. Engineer Regiment
91st Naval Guard Unit
38th Ind. Engineer Regiment
24th JNAF AF Unit
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
112th AA Regiment
16th Army
17th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
53rd Construction Battalion
3rd RF Gun Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
1st JAAF Base Force
6th RF Gun Battalion
115th AA Regiment
5th Mortar Battalion
11th Shipping Engineer Regiment
11th Air Defense AA Battalion
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Air Defense AA Battalion
2nd Medium Mortar Battalion
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
125th AA Regiment
56th Field AA Battalion
34th Field AA Battalion
113th AA Regiment
4th RF Gun Battalion
88th JAAF AF Coy

Defending units:
26th Indian Division
Americal Infantry Division
14th Army Engineer Battalion
Provisionl Tank Brigade
7th Australian Division
27th Infantry Division
254th Armoured Brigade
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
754th Tank Battalion
255th Indian Tank Brigade
3rd Cavalry Regiment
7th Indian Division
6th Australian Division
11th Indian Division
32nd Infantry Division
150th RAC Regiment
1st New Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
1st RM Heavy AA Regiment
2nd Ceylon H AA Regiment
8th Mahratta AT Gun Regiment
134th Medium Regiment
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
XXXIII Indian Corps
122nd British AT Gun Regiment
86th Coast AA Regiment
18th SP Field Artillery Regiment
22nd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
77th Coast AA Regiment
184th USAAF Base Force
185 Wing
29th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
101st Heavy AA Regiment
21st Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
17th Indian Light AA Regiment
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
170 Wing
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
6th Medium Regiment
2/11th Field Regiment
134th Field Artillery Battalion
2nd Indian AA Bde
1/198th Coast AA Battalion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Pakhoi (72,58)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1224 troops, 3 guns, 113 vehicles, Assault Value = 63

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Allied adjusted assault: 62

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 62 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Pakhoi !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker:

Assaulting units:
193rd Tank Battalion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Johore Bahru (50,83)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 99868 troops, 1523 guns, 1399 vehicles, Assault Value = 2511

Defending force 59732 troops, 485 guns, 285 vehicles, Assault Value = 1612

Japanese ground losses:
122 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
2nd British Division
475th USA Regiment
236th Combat Engineer Regiment
17th Motorised Division
20th Indian Division
268th Motorised Brigade
Gardner's Horse Regiment
45th Indian Brigade
81st (West African) Division
25th Indian Division
8th Indian Division
55th Heavy Regiment
III Indian Corps
XXXIV Indian Corps
3rd West African AA Regiment
134th (East Ang) Regiment
20th Indian Heavy AA Regiment
88th Medium Regiment
56th Heavy AA Regiment
Southeast Asia
181st Field Artillery Regiment
12th Indian Heavy AA Regiment
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
14th Army
23rd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
1st Indian Medium Regiment
168th Field Artillery Regiment
2/9th Field Regiment
6th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
2/13th Field Regiment
2nd Indian Medium Regiment
3rd (Special Force) Division

Defending units:
Sasebo 8th SNLF
4th Ind.Mixed Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
Yokosuka 4th SNLF /2
26th Tank Regiment
2nd INA Gandhi Regiment
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
49th Tank Battalion
4th Raiding Regiment
44th Naval Guard Unit
5th INA Regiment
2nd South Seas Det.
65th Brigade
27th Ind.Mixed Brigade
2nd Amphibious Brigade
Kure 3rd SNLF
4th INA Nehru Regiment
29th Ind.Mixed Brigade
120th Div /2
91st JAAF AF Bn
80th JAAF AF Bn
89th JAAF AF Bn
3rd Mortar Battalion
1st RF Gun Battalion
201st JAAF AF Bn
105th JAAF AF Bn
17th JAAF AF Bn
28th JAAF AF Bn
94th JAAF AF Bn
23rd JAAF AF Bn /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nanning (72,55)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 7468 troops, 307 guns, 259 vehicles, Assault Value = 4380

Defending force 134268 troops, 1281 guns, 800 vehicles, Assault Value = 3391

Japanese ground losses:
52 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 11 (5 destroyed, 6 disabled)
Vehicles lost 18 (3 destroyed, 15 disabled)

Assaulting units:
Americal Infantry Division
14th Army Engineer Battalion
3rd Cavalry Regiment
11th Indian Division
7th Australian Division
254th Armoured Brigade
7th Indian Division
150th RAC Regiment
26th Indian Division
Provisionl Tank Brigade
32nd Infantry Division
754th Tank Battalion
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
1st New Chinese Corps
27th Infantry Division
6th Australian Division
255th Indian Tank Brigade
3rd New Chinese Corps
17th Indian Light AA Regiment
6th Medium Regiment
170 Wing
185 Wing
2nd Ceylon H AA Regiment
184th USAAF Base Force
86th Coast AA Regiment
134th Medium Regiment
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
2nd Indian AA Bde
XXXIII Indian Corps
122nd British AT Gun Regiment
1st RM Heavy AA Regiment
22nd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
101st Heavy AA Regiment
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
2/11th Field Regiment
21st Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
18th SP Field Artillery Regiment
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
29th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
8th Mahratta AT Gun Regiment
77th Coast AA Regiment
134th Field Artillery Battalion
1/198th Coast AA Battalion

Defending units:
70th Division
55th Naval Guard Unit
1st Ind. Engineer Regiment
48th Division
16th Division
5th Division
2nd Division
105th Division
103rd Division
18th Division
91st Naval Guard Unit
5th Mortar Battalion
113th AA Regiment
17th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
34th Field AA Battalion
2nd Medium Mortar Battalion
1st Air Defense AA Battalion
115th AA Regiment
53rd Construction Battalion
6th RF Gun Battalion
11th Air Defense AA Battalion
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
56th Field AA Battalion
112th AA Regiment
24th JNAF AF Unit
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
11th Shipping Engineer Regiment
3rd RF Gun Battalion
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
1st JAAF Base Force
38th Ind. Engineer Regiment
16th Army
4th RF Gun Battalion
125th AA Regiment
88th JAAF AF Coy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3160
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/7/2019 11:51:58 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Banzai...it seems to take more than one hit to bring down a 4E beastie.

I don't know what triggers the decision to go banzai...would be nice if you could use low skill pilots doing it.


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3161
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/8/2019 9:27:36 AM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline 		At this stage of the game, with a dominating, very powerful japanese airforce, this self-destructive behaviour just seems really silly. A design oversight. One,your game could have done without.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 3162
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/8/2019 9:48:25 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Banzai...it seems to take more than one hit to bring down a 4E beastie.

I don't know what triggers the decision to go banzai...would be nice if you could use low skill pilots doing it.



The only rammings were against the B-25D and B-25J1/11. It seems it happens with the front gunned 2Es. I'm guessing because they were damaged in a frontal attack and rammed.

I tried setting planes above and below expected arrival altitude to hit them if the dove in low. The LR CAP set low seemed to lose more through Banzai attacks.

Still a great LR CAP day. Got about 3:1 with 100+ Allied bombers shot down. He's losing an unbelievable number of fighter and bomber pilots lately.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 3163
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/8/2019 9:50:40 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

At this stage of the game, with a dominating, very powerful japanese airforce, this self-destructive behaviour just seems really silly. A design oversight. One,your game could have done without.


I agree!! Although if in fact they were damaged only some would have made it to base anyway. In most cases I think it is a damaged plane that chooses to ram. I wonder if by ramming the game always sends the pilot to the KIA pool or if any would end up in WIA/MIA. I have the names so I guess I could check in a bit if I don't have a 1,000 other things to manage.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 3164
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/8/2019 10:07:45 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		July 6, 1945

The Allies keep on bombing over the big bases, unfazed by the devastating LR CAP last turn in the mountains. It's really giving me opportunities as it's always hard to tell if the bases you've been bombing are really closed. Since the Allies have been hitting Hangchow more regularly, and slowing bombardments (after the CD gun damage to the BBs I haven't seen them again bombarding ), Shanghai fields are open.

Tomorrow I'll try a huge LR CAP over Hangchow based in Shanghai and several surrounding bases. He's still flying a lot of fragile 1Es here, plus the usual 4E and 2E barrage. The Allies are still also employing B-29-25 for ground and airfield hits here in spite of being well in range of the entire Home Islands from both sides with sweepers.

He must have something up his sleeve, or simply isn't concerned with timing. Fine by me. The clock keeps ticking. Air losses are still permanent VP gains for the Japanese.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR July 6, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nanning (72,55)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 6741 troops, 281 guns, 320 vehicles, Assault Value = 3876

Defending force 203611 troops, 2662 guns, 3538 vehicles, Assault Value = 4467

Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 10 (2 destroyed, 8 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
160 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Vehicles lost 8 (3 destroyed, 5 disabled)

Assaulting units:
70th Division
55th Division
103rd Division
5th Division
2nd Division
105th Division
16th Division
18th Division
1st Ind. Engineer Regiment
55th Naval Guard Unit
48th Division
91st Naval Guard Unit
17th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
125th AA Regiment
53rd Construction Battalion
34th Field AA Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
2nd Medium Mortar Battalion
11th Shipping Engineer Regiment
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
11th Air Defense AA Battalion
113th AA Regiment
4th RF Gun Battalion
38th Ind. Engineer Regiment
3rd RF Gun Battalion
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Air Defense AA Battalion
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
24th JNAF AF Unit
56th Field AA Battalion
6th RF Gun Battalion
112th AA Regiment
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
16th Army
5th Mortar Battalion
115th AA Regiment
1st JAAF Base Force
88th JAAF AF Coy

Defending units:
11th Indian Division
255th Indian Tank Brigade
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
1st New Chinese Corps
3rd Cavalry Regiment
254th Armoured Brigade
7th Indian Division
32nd Infantry Division
150th RAC Regiment
Americal Infantry Division
14th Army Engineer Battalion
754th Tank Battalion
26th Indian Division
7th Australian Division
Provisionl Tank Brigade
27th Infantry Division
6th Australian Division
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
3rd New Chinese Corps
185 Wing
2nd Ceylon H AA Regiment
17th Indian Light AA Regiment
18th SP Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Indian AA Bde
134th Field Artillery Battalion
101st Heavy AA Regiment
XXXIII Indian Corps
122nd British AT Gun Regiment
1st RM Heavy AA Regiment
22nd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
2/11th Field Regiment
29th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
77th Coast AA Regiment
184th USAAF Base Force
134th Medium Regiment
6th Medium Regiment
8th Mahratta AT Gun Regiment
170 Wing
86th Coast AA Regiment
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
21st Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
1/198th Coast AA Battalion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Johore Bahru (50,83)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 100134 troops, 1523 guns, 1399 vehicles, Assault Value = 2918

Defending force 59725 troops, 485 guns, 284 vehicles, Assault Value = 1605

Japanese ground losses:
29 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 7 (4 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
27 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
2nd British Division
81st (West African) Division
268th Motorised Brigade
11th (East African) Division
Gardner's Horse Regiment
25th Indian Division
475th USA Regiment
45th Indian Brigade
236th Combat Engineer Regiment
20th Indian Division
17th Motorised Division
8th Indian Division
181st Field Artillery Regiment
168th Field Artillery Regiment
2/13th Field Regiment
6th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
12th Indian Heavy AA Regiment
XXXIV Indian Corps
88th Medium Regiment
Southeast Asia
134th (East Ang) Regiment
3rd West African AA Regiment
1st Indian Medium Regiment
56th Heavy AA Regiment
III Indian Corps
20th Indian Heavy AA Regiment
55th Heavy Regiment
2nd Indian Medium Regiment
2/9th Field Regiment
23rd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
14th Army
3rd (Special Force) Division

Defending units:
4th Tank Regiment
2nd Amphibious Brigade
Kure 3rd SNLF
Yokosuka 4th SNLF /2
26th Tank Regiment
49th Tank Battalion
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
29th Ind.Mixed Brigade
2nd South Seas Det.
Sasebo 8th SNLF
5th INA Regiment
2nd INA Gandhi Regiment
4th Ind.Mixed Regiment
4th Raiding Regiment
44th Naval Guard Unit
27th Ind.Mixed Brigade
65th Brigade
4th INA Nehru Regiment
120th Div /2
17th JAAF AF Bn
105th JAAF AF Bn
3rd Mortar Battalion
1st RF Gun Battalion
89th JAAF AF Bn
94th JAAF AF Bn
91st JAAF AF Bn
201st JAAF AF Bn
28th JAAF AF Bn
80th JAAF AF Bn
23rd JAAF AF Bn /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nanning (72,55)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 7364 troops, 302 guns, 256 vehicles, Assault Value = 4444

Defending force 150489 troops, 1413 guns, 833 vehicles, Assault Value = 3876

Japanese ground losses:
23 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 14 (2 destroyed, 12 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Assaulting units:
255th Indian Tank Brigade
1st New Chinese Corps
7th Indian Division
27th Infantry Division
Americal Infantry Division
254th Armoured Brigade
150th RAC Regiment
11th Indian Division
26th Indian Division
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
754th Tank Battalion
Provisionl Tank Brigade
6th Australian Division
7th Australian Division
3rd Cavalry Regiment
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
14th Army Engineer Battalion
32nd Infantry Division
3rd New Chinese Corps
8th Mahratta AT Gun Regiment
184th USAAF Base Force
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
86th Coast AA Regiment
134th Medium Regiment
185 Wing
170 Wing
21st Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
XXXIII Indian Corps
2nd Ceylon H AA Regiment
134th Field Artillery Battalion
6th Medium Regiment
29th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
18th SP Field Artillery Regiment
122nd British AT Gun Regiment
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
1st RM Heavy AA Regiment
101st Heavy AA Regiment
2/11th Field Regiment
77th Coast AA Regiment
17th Indian Light AA Regiment
2nd Indian AA Bde
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
22nd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
1/198th Coast AA Battalion

Defending units:
1st Ind. Engineer Regiment
18th Division
103rd Division
105th Division
55th Division
5th Division
48th Division
2nd Division
70th Division
16th Division
55th Naval Guard Unit
91st Naval Guard Unit
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
34th Field AA Battalion
1st Air Defense AA Battalion
2nd Medium Mortar Battalion
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
17th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
11th Air Defense AA Battalion
125th AA Regiment
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
4th RF Gun Battalion
6th RF Gun Battalion
115th AA Regiment
5th Mortar Battalion
16th Army
112th AA Regiment
11th Shipping Engineer Regiment
3rd RF Gun Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
1st JAAF Base Force
24th JNAF AF Unit
38th Ind. Engineer Regiment
53rd Construction Battalion
56th Field AA Battalion
113th AA Regiment
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
88th JAAF AF Coy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A little look at the economic situation. Supply is still reducing daily, but it's not critical yet. Just annoying. I am getting a lot more oil and resources to the Home Islands in the next few weeks to hopefully build a last reserve. We'll see.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3165
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/8/2019 1:17:22 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Banzai...it seems to take more than one hit to bring down a 4E beastie.

I don't know what triggers the decision to go banzai...would be nice if you could use low skill pilots doing it.




In theory, you could get low skill pilots to do so but for practical game reasons they are most unlikely to succeed.

Ramming attacks are a poor mans version of kamikaze attacks. Bear in mind there are some significant differences between the two types of "kamikaze" attacks.


Kamikaze and ramming "kamikaze" comparison

1. True Kamikazes can not be triggered before 1 January 1944 whereas the ramming "kamikazes" can occur before 1944.

2. True Kamikazes expend the entire group although the results are determined on an individual aircraft attack basis. Ramming "kamikazes" involve only single aircraft which successfully meet the qualification criteria.

3. True Kamikazes only attack ships. Ramming "kamikazes" can strike at bombers in addition to ships, although in practice they are most likely witnessed in bomber attacks.


Ramming "kamikaze" conditions

A. The chance of a ramming "kamikaze" attack occurring increases each year. By 1945 it was almost a certainty that they would occur so patch #4 reduced the odds of their appearance down.

B. Only an already highly damaged Japanese fighter which is unlikely to return to base is eligible for consideration to undertake a ramming "kamikaze" attack. An undamaged fighter will never qualify.

C. To qualify for a ramming "kamikaze" attack, the fighter must


  • have damage >80% of the value of it's durability rating
  • pass the year based ramming check


D. The damage to a bomber inflicted by a ramming "kamikaze" aircraft is relative (and randomised) to the durability of the fighter. There is no guarantee that any damage will actually result directly from the attack. Usually the bomber will need to already be damaged for it to succumb to the ramming. A combination of aggregated damage from flak, air to air combat and from the rammer will usually be required for the bomber to crash on the return trip (or far less likely during the Combat Animation).

E. A ramming pilot has a chance to survive the encounter.



It is very important to understand that a ramming "kamikaze" attack involves, in almost all instances, a Japanese fighter which would not survive the return trip to base and the attendant pilot loss rates. It is therefore a bonus last opportunity for an already doomed fighter to cause some extra damage which will probably show up in Allied operational bomber losses.

Alfred

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 3166
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/8/2019 1:23:02 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

E. A ramming pilot has a chance to survive the encounter.

It is very important to understand that a ramming "kamikaze" attack involves, in almost all instances, a Japanese fighter which would not survive the return trip to base and the attendant pilot loss rates. It is therefore a bonus last opportunity for an already doomed fighter to cause some extra damage which will probably show up in Allied operational bomber losses.

Alfred


Good news! Thanks Alfred. I'd thought I remembered some of this but your confirmation is very helpful. Eases my mind a bit about the pilots too. Most combat these days is above my troops or bases.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3167
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/8/2019 5:04:42 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		That might also explain the predominance of ramming against only the B-25 variants? Weren't these late war B-25 variants fitted with multiple forward-facing .50cal guns for airfield strafing? If these are being calculated in the bomber defense fire role, perhaps that atypically heavy damage to enemy fighters is inducing the 'ramming check'?

_____________________________


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3168
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/8/2019 7:17:01 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

That might also explain the predominance of ramming against only the B-25 variants? Weren't these late war B-25 variants fitted with multiple forward-facing .50cal guns for airfield strafing? If these are being calculated in the bomber defense fire role, perhaps that atypically heavy damage to enemy fighters is inducing the 'ramming check'?


Yes. My theory exactly.

It's well known that the variants beginning with B-25D1 are defensively overpowered in game due to the huge set of 50cal guns in the nose. These were used against fighters in the war and were occasionally effective, but in game it can be crazy. They have much more effect than many bombers that have multiple defensive turrets and gun ports.

At any rate, it's fine with me as long as they get taken down, and interestingly the B-251/11 and A-26 Invader have seemed to suffer proportionately more losses than other bombers lately. Even better if his bomber pilots go KIA/MIA and mine are often just WIA.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 3169
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/8/2019 7:54:53 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		I still get a kick out of the VP difference in 4EB versus 2EB. Trading a B-17/24/29 for a fighter is a 2:1 losing proposition. You'd think there would be a more discerning realization about the VP trade off when he's trying to close a certain VP gap within the next month and a half of game time.

_____________________________


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3170
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/9/2019 3:31:42 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

That might also explain the predominance of ramming against only the B-25 variants? Weren't these late war B-25 variants fitted with multiple forward-facing .50cal guns for airfield strafing? If these are being calculated in the bomber defense fire role, perhaps that atypically heavy damage to enemy fighters is inducing the 'ramming check'?


Correct.

It will be very rare to see a British/Commonwealth, or 1E Allied bomber the subject of a ramming "kamikaze" attack as their defensive fire is light in relative terms and unlikely to get the fighter damage level up high enough. Attack and 4E bombers on the other hand have heavy defensive fire, particularly if the fighter attack vector is front on against an attack bomber. The fighter attack vector chosen is randomised and not within player control.

The defensive fire effect of the forward firing guns of attack bombers was toned down a little in a patch but it cannot be totally eliminated without a significant rewriting effort.

Alfred

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 3171
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/9/2019 3:54:19 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I still get a kick out of the VP difference in 4EB versus 2EB. Trading a B-17/24/29 for a fighter is a 2:1 losing proposition. You'd think there would be a more discerning realization about the VP trade off when he's trying to close a certain VP gap within the next month and a half of game time.


It is even worse than that as the 2VP goes to the denominator thereby requiring a 4 VP to go to the numerator just to stabilise it back to an Auto Victory by 31 August 1945.

At this stage even an overall net 2:1 exchange in favour of the Allies is insufficient. In practical terms the Allies need a gross 4:1 device exchange to get that overall net 2:1.

I said months ago I didn't think the Allies would bridge the gap by 31 August 1945. I am increasingly of the view that they won't even get to 2:1 by the end of March 1946. The likelihood of the game ending with an official draw or even a marginal Japanese victory is very much in play unless Soviet activation results in massive Soviet gains.

Alfred

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 3172
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/9/2019 8:59:33 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		July 7, 1945

The Allies step right into the muck at Hangchow on the 7th. A 125 plane LR CAP met the one sweeping group of Corsairs, decimated them, and had 115 left to meet the first 1E bombing run. The CAP lasted through many waves and took out bombers and escorts of all types in big numbers. The ramming here was often against B-29s, which I support completely!

On the day the Allies lost 140+ aircraft to only 41 for the Japanese.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR July 7, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amphibious Assault at Misool (80,108)

TF 357 troops unloading over beach at Misool, 80,108

Allied ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Kiungshan (71,61)

TF 455 troops unloading over beach at Kiungshan, 71,61

Allied ground losses:
239 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 42 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 67 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hangchow , at 90,55

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 29
J2M5 Jack x 19
N1K5-J George x 29
Ki-83 x 13
Ki-84r Frank x 28
Ki-100-II Tony x 7

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 33

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-83: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 10 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hangchow , at 90,55

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 27
J2M5 Jack x 18
N1K5-J George x 28
Ki-83 x 10
Ki-84r Frank x 27
Ki-100-II Tony x 5

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 1
F-6D Mustang x 18
P-38L Lightning x 18
P-51D Mustang x 3
TBM-1C Avenger x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F-6D Mustang: 6 destroyed
P-38L Lightning: 9 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 2 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 4 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hangchow , at 90,55

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 20
J2M5 Jack x 13
N1K5-J George x 21
Ki-83 x 10
Ki-84r Frank x 23
Ki-100-II Tony x 2

Allied aircraft
TBM-3 Avenger x 17

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-3 Avenger: 7 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hangchow , at 90,55

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 68 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 19
J2M5 Jack x 13
N1K5-J George x 21
Ki-83 x 10
Ki-84r Frank x 21
Ki-100-II Tony x 2

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 11
Liberator GR.VI x 9
F4U-1D Corsair x 14
A-20G Havoc x 14
A-26B Invader x 29
B-24J Liberator x 23
B-29-25 Superfort x 25
P-51D Mustang x 10
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 22
PBJ-1J Mitchell x 11
PV-2 Harpoon x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 2 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 11 damaged
Liberator GR.VI: 3 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 4 destroyed
A-20G Havoc: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
A-26B Invader: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed, 10 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak
P-51D Mustang: 5 destroyed
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 6 damaged
PBJ-1J Mitchell: 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 17
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 71

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x PBJ-1D Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Banzai! - Kamei G. in a Ki-84r Frank rams a A-26B Invader for the Emperor
Banzai! - Shimizu, K. in a J2M5 Jack rams a B-29-25 Superfort for the Emperor
Banzai! - Doikawa V. in a J2M5 Jack rams a PV-2 Harpoon for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hangchow , at 90,55

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 11
J2M5 Jack x 7
N1K5-J George x 16
Ki-83 x 8
Ki-84r Frank x 7
Ki-100-II Tony x 1

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 4
Liberator GR.VI x 3
A-26B Invader x 64
B-24J Liberator x 11
B-29-25 Superfort x 11
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 2 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 4 damaged
Liberator GR.VI: 2 damaged
A-26B Invader: 4 destroyed, 18 damaged
A-26B Invader: 1 destroyed by flak
B-24J Liberator: 5 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 7 damaged
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 4 damaged

Airbase hits 15
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 31

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Banzai! - Tokuda B. in a A7M2 Sam rams a B-29-25 Superfort for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hangchow , at 90,55

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 4
J2M5 Jack x 3
N1K5-J George x 5
Ki-83 x 6
Ki-84r Frank x 1

Allied aircraft
Corsair IV x 16
B-29-25 Superfort x 18
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 12
PV-1 Ventura x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair IV: 1 destroyed
B-29-25 Superfort: 14 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 4 damaged
PV-1 Ventura: 2 damaged
PV-1 Ventura: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 15

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hangchow , at 90,55

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 47 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 4
N1K5-J George x 2
Ki-83 x 4

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 10
B-29-25 Superfort x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 8 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
B-29-25 Superfort: 5 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nanning (72,55)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 6753 troops, 279 guns, 320 vehicles, Assault Value = 3874

Defending force 204096 troops, 2659 guns, 3534 vehicles, Assault Value = 4524

Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 15 (1 destroyed, 14 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
250 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 12 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 12 (3 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Vehicles lost 18 (15 destroyed, 3 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Johore Bahru (50,83)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 117170 troops, 1798 guns, 1557 vehicles, Assault Value = 3047

Defending force 59524 troops, 485 guns, 280 vehicles, Assault Value = 1595

Japanese ground losses:
99 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Kiungshan (71,61)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 116 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 60

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Allied adjusted assault: 10

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 10 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Kiungshan !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+)

Assaulting units:
111th Chindit Bde /5
77th Indian Para Bde /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/9/2019 11:26:47 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3173
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/9/2019 10:52:05 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		Your a2a results are amazing for this stage of the game.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3174
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/9/2019 11:03:44 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		Were there no offensive sweeps prior to the bombings?

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 3175
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/10/2019 7:33:30 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Were there no offensive sweeps prior to the bombings?


He had a couple of sweeps before that one, but the DS is away, so the fighters may be used protecting Allied bases in China primarily right now. He might guess that I was thinking of launching a massive bombing campaign to hit the 500 bombers here on a non-rail linked base. Which I was, but decided to LR CAP instead.

He has been fairly successful setting a few sweeps and then massive escort with many of his strikes in the past 6 months. The escorts were doing okay, but this was a more concerted effort in defence and there weren't enough sweepers ahead of time. He also continued to set them at 16k from the previous few turns so I layered my CAP just above that and was able to get a very good jump on the sweep.

My suspicion is also that the quality of pilots is not what it used to be in the USN/USMC/USAAF fighter groups.

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/10/2019 7:39:41 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 3176
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/10/2019 7:45:34 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Your a2a results are amazing for this stage of the game.


Cheers. It's the thing I worked toward the entire game knowing the KB was less a dominant force, and to try and fix some long term mistakes in planning from my last late effort.

The low layered CAP has really changed the game and made both sides have to adjust to each other continuously. It's hard for an Allied player to not be able to rely on brute force of P-47/P-51/F4U sweeping in the late game. There are other ways to fight the air war though, and when focused on a target he can get good results, but often it takes a few turns to see those play out, and by then he seems to try something else. I've been able to consistently bring in fresh groups to make up for losses and damaged planes.

My pools are growing now, and by recent count the Allies have lost close to 1,800 airframes in the past three weeks!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 3177
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/10/2019 9:10:55 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		July 8, 1945

On the 8th the Allies get back to naval bombardments against Shanghai, and in the daytime send retribution strikes at the base. I flew out all CAP and withdrew the damaged. Nothing here to hit today. I did leave one group of Ki-83 on CAP but forgot to raise their altitude. Damn. Lost about 15 for only about 5 Corsairs.

It looks like the Allies are leaving Nanning!! A big win here. Getting those troops disabled, hitting them hard with bombardments for 4-5 turns and now being able to turn and use my now ultra-experienced defenders elsewhere is huge. I'll leave much smaller bockade here, but forts are still 6, terrain is still x2, and if he ever crosses again I'll be stunned. This releases about 2k AV of 85+ EXP IDs and the best arty units in game to the defence of the Southern Chinese capitals and Canton (2k AV now) and Hong Kong (1.5k AV now), with reserves in Kukong (300 AV now).

The Allies are slowly moving a lot of their force toward Nanking from the blocking hex NW of Hangchow. There is still no movement North from here though, but I'm sure it will happen soon. He'll have a free run up to Peiping and Tsientian. There is a force there and at Sinyang (able to rail to support) but I have to make sure rail lines are good. Allied bombing can easily wreck one of the Chinese units so I'll add a bit more in each node.

Still bombing at Singapore and Johore Baru, but no further attacks. It seems like the RN CVs might have popped through into the South China Sea and gone toward the Chinese coast to link with the DS, but my search is spotty to try and reduce losses. Either way nothing seems to be threatening supply lines or the DEI resource bases at the moment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR July 8, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Naval bombardment of Shanghai at 92,55

Allied Ships
CA Canberra II
CL Astoria II
DD Remey
DD Pringle
DD Mullany
DD McNair
DD Heermann

Japanese ground losses:
20 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Fires 1
Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 15
Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 1

OS2U-3 Kingfisher acting as spotter for CA Canberra II
CA Canberra II firing at 89th Ind.Mixed Brigade

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Shanghai , at 92,55

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 28 NM, estimated altitude 37,900 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 28

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Shanghai , at 92,55

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-47N Thunderbolt x 18

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x P-47N Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hangchow , at 90,55

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 13 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-47N Thunderbolt x 22

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x P-47N Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hangchow , at 90,55

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 65 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 11
P-38L Lightning x 25
P-51D Mustang x 22
SB2C-3 Helldiver x 27
TBM-3 Avenger x 18

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 12 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 1 destroyed by flak
TBM-3 Avenger: 4 damaged
TBM-3 Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 11

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x SB2C-3 Helldiver releasing from 2000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nanning (72,55)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 6741 troops, 278 guns, 319 vehicles, Assault Value = 3887

Defending force 189262 troops, 2620 guns, 2371 vehicles, Assault Value = 3893

Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 12 (3 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Vehicles lost 12 (5 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
480 casualties reported
Squads: 16 destroyed, 41 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 21 (1 destroyed, 20 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Johore Bahru (50,83)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 117355 troops, 1798 guns, 1556 vehicles, Assault Value = 3060

Defending force 59673 troops, 487 guns, 282 vehicles, Assault Value = 1592

Japanese ground losses:
46 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 7 (3 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
16 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems like no invasion is currently moving with the DS, but hard to tell. This does look like the RN DS joining in though.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/13/2019 9:41:07 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3178
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/10/2019 11:03:06 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Your a2a results are amazing for this stage of the game.


Cheers. It's the thing I worked toward the entire game knowing the KB was less a dominant force, and to try and fix some long term mistakes in planning from my last late effort.

The low layered CAP has really changed the game and made both sides have to adjust to each other continuously. It's hard for an Allied player to not be able to rely on brute force of P-47/P-51/F4U sweeping in the late game. There are other ways to fight the air war though, and when focused on a target he can get good results, but often it takes a few turns to see those play out, and by then he seems to try something else. I've been able to consistently bring in fresh groups to make up for losses and damaged planes.

My pools are growing now, and by recent count the Allies have lost close to 1,800 airframes in the past three weeks!


Tell me more about this layered CAP

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3179
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/10/2019 11:20:29 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Your a2a results are amazing for this stage of the game.


Cheers. It's the thing I worked toward the entire game knowing the KB was less a dominant force, and to try and fix some long term mistakes in planning from my last late effort.

The low layered CAP has really changed the game and made both sides have to adjust to each other continuously. It's hard for an Allied player to not be able to rely on brute force of P-47/P-51/F4U sweeping in the late game. There are other ways to fight the air war though, and when focused on a target he can get good results, but often it takes a few turns to see those play out, and by then he seems to try something else. I've been able to consistently bring in fresh groups to make up for losses and damaged planes.

My pools are growing now, and by recent count the Allies have lost close to 1,800 airframes in the past three weeks!


Tell me more about this layered CAP


Lowpe had started looking into layering CAP based on some of Alfred's comments on how to counteract high P-47 sweeps. Essentially any fast high altitude sweep that usually decimates the more fragile, lower altitude Japanese planes. Zoom and boom.

So the low layered CAP is at heart just a way to take away the speed advantage by getting fast planes to fly in lower altitudes in order to maximise the higher manoeuvre of the defenders. It is also geared to allow supporting groups to fly at different complementary altitude bands, and works best with at least there groups at three bands at zero hex bleed and good radar in the base. It has to be done in layers that are tight though to make sure as the sweeps dive on the lowest band the higher ones have time to quickly dive in and get the bounce on the sweepers.

I didn't believe it at first, but then remembered a certain time I accidentally had only my lowest bands flying against Jocke in the late game and saw Sam's wipe out a P-47N sweep. I couldn't replicate it though until I read about what Lowpe was trying.

So I tried some tests. Here is the evidence. It works.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4047529

I've played around a bit, but the most successful for me is 5k (maneuveralbe high defence and air skill: Oscar, A6M8 but can be Georges, Jacks or Franks too), 7k (high defence and better airframes with good armament to kill when diving in: Tojo, Sam, Tony-II and Jack) and 9k (best airframes and pilots with high speeds and best guns: Franks and Georges usually).

Only use three bands. Try it first with only three groups (and I mean against anything that comes. If you mess with too many at first you lose the nuance).

I also find that if you set a 70% CAP at 9k, 60% at 7k and only 50% with 20% rest at 5k it tends to work better. Zero hex bleed).

Lowpe uses it against me, and so does Loka(!) in my Allied games. It is tough but I've found some ways to combat it too. It just allows the mix to become more complex because you have to change altitudes rather than constantly setting to max and letting them rip.

Canoe has figured out some better methods, but once he does I change it up, and I've been even layering up higher against other planes (Corsairs are tough since they have high speed, good guns and higher manoeuvre even in the low bands. Same for Spit VIII).

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 3180
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