RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/24/2020 8:34:50 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

It is over.

Attachment (1)

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3601

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/24/2020 8:35:26 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

The final info screen.

Attachment (1)

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3602

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/24/2020 8:43:13 PM

MBF

Posts: 140
Joined: 3/25/2008
Status: offline

Great job on fighting it out till Feb 46 !! Kudos to both you and CR :-)

(in reply to obvert)

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/24/2020 9:58:24 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

It is over.

Well played, Obvert. Well played.

ETA: Just noticed that it's either a 'minor victory' or a 'marginal victory' depending on the screen shown. I wonder if this is an oversight or WAD? As a JFB, I choose to combine these two when describing the Allied victory in this game for further reductionism.

Congratulations again on holding the Allies to a minor marginal victory.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 2/24/2020 10:00:18 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/24/2020 10:35:01 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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Congratulations on a game well played.

I commented on Dan's AR and gave suggestions so I did not look here except until June of 1942.

Another option for strategic bombing is to go after the crucial engine factories. No engines, no planes.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

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Post #: 3605

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 2:26:31 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

It is over.

Well played, Obvert. Well played.

ETA: Just noticed that it's either a 'minor victory' or a 'marginal victory' depending on the screen shown. I wonder if this is an oversight or WAD? As a JFB, I choose to combine these two when describing the Allied victory in this game for further reductionism.

Congratulations again on holding the Allies to a minor marginal victory.

CB: more accurately it is a "marginally minor victory"

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 3606

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 2:27:18 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

obvert: wildly excellent game!!! Having to deal with 3 very different players. congrats!!

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Pax

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 6:09:45 AM

CaptBeefheart

Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline

Well played, Obvert! Can't wait to see what both of you gentlemen do next.

Cheers,
CB

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Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

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Post #: 3608

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 7:03:51 AM

Encircled

Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

Well played guys

Hanging on to Feb 1946 is a hell of an achievement

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Post #: 3609

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 8:57:03 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Congratulations on a game well played.

I commented on Dan's AR and gave suggestions so I did not look here except until June of 1942.

Another option for strategic bombing is to go after the crucial engine factories. No engines, no planes.

Thanks! I agree, although in this one I ended up with beautifully large pools even to Feb 46 of all critical engines. I think I had several thousand Ha-45 in the pools late. If you start early this could work for Ha-45 and Ha-43, maybe for the Ha-33, but probably not for the others.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3610

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 9:06:27 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

obvert: wildly excellent game!!! Having to deal with 3 very different players. congrats!!

I know! It was wild from the beginning. Historiker is a master tactician, and really stymied me in several naval battles, but I got the better of a few later against him once I realised he was a risk taker and I could use that.

SqzMyLemon (RIP Joe, my friend) was a planner, but due to the feeling he had to hurry and catch up after Historiker let things slide a bit in 43, he rushed things forward and I was able to use that, which wore down his resolve. I think his health was the main reason he was not able to continue though.

Dan is a complete player. He plans and can execute with the best. He knows how to throw a surprise in too in spite of the kitchen sink approach that led to the Sakhalin invasion and the later Chinese onslaught. The one thing I noticed from the onset is he never lets up. I kept waiting for a lull in the action, a few days to rest pilots and replenish airframes, and it never came. I just had to switch groups in and out and hope I could hold a few more days, but that few more days was the entire war.

I'm glad this game got a chance to play out. I never thought after losing three CVs day two that it would last beyond 44 let alone into 46. It taught me a lot and gave me some great friendships too.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3611

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 9:07:54 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

Well played, Obvert! Can't wait to see what both of you gentlemen do next.

Cheers,
CB

Got one game still going, and it's late war Allied, so I'll now be able to do it justice and get the AAR up to date. I really need a rest to focus and play a bit. I've got a list of things to test that's been too long for years.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3612

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 9:12:07 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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Although the Japanese never got to test their jet prototypes in this one, I did see a lot of the P-80 for the past month or so. It tore up my CAP like nothing else. In spite of that, the IJ pilots did knock down about 150 of them!!

Also happy to have accounted for 1,500+ B-17G losses in only five or so months.

Very fun to see late war ships, planes and other stuff. Not so fun to see late ar Allied ground toys at work. Talk about a bulldozer.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 9:52:30 AM

GetAssista

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Joined: 9/19/2009
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Congratulations on an interesting game! It is not often (wild understatement) that one can see Japan fighting into 1946

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 3:41:12 PM

jwolf

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline

Erik, many kudos to both of you for a great game and persistence right up to the end. I followed Dan's AAR so naturally stayed away from yours -- no offense meant. Suppose the game had continued. Could you have defended the Home Islands (minus Hokkaido) from a big invasion attempt?

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Post #: 3615

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 5:32:03 PM

inqistor

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Joined: 5/12/2010
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Congratulations on longest running game in history of this forum, Obvert!

Now, show us your pools. I bet you couldn't even use those 8k Kamikaze Pilots you prepared.

1. What was your best plane for each kind of mission?
2. What was your training schedule? Too few/many pilots of any kind?
3. What was your Naval Construction plan, and what would you change in the future?
4. What were your planes research, and production priorities, and what would you change?

Also, sort this 100k destroyed planes by Total Numbers. Was there more ZEROs, or P-40 lost?

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Post #: 3616

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 6:22:14 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Also, sort this 100k destroyed planes by Total Numbers. Was there more ZEROs, or P-40 lost?

Yeah. Inquiring minds wanna know the most bloodied airframes.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 7:38:12 PM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
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Interesting game and read Obvert. I remember reading your Dec 8 report and thinking that the game might not last until 1944.
I was very wrong, well played.

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Post #: 3618

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/25/2020 10:43:21 PM

JohnDillworth

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How the heck did the Yamato survive 6 torpedoes and where the heck did you hide her?

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Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/26/2020 2:09:27 AM

Insano

Posts: 228
Joined: 7/23/2009
From: Joplin, Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

How the heck did the Yamato survive 6 torpedoes and where the heck did you hide her?

+1

also were you producing late war destroyers right up till the end or did you eventually halt all shipbuilding?

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 3620

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/26/2020 8:00:16 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Erik, many kudos to both of you for a great game and persistence right up to the end. I followed Dan's AAR so naturally stayed away from yours -- no offense meant. Suppose the game had continued. Could you have defended the Home Islands (minus Hokkaido) from a big invasion attempt?

"Today near Kagoshima the glorious Japanese navy defeated Allied forces by sinking four carriers, three battleships and eight cruisers!!"

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 3621

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/26/2020 8:43:14 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Congratulations on longest running game in history of this forum, Obvert!

Now, show us your pools. I bet you couldn't even use those 8k Kamikaze Pilots you prepared.

1. What was your best plane for each kind of mission?
2. What was your training schedule? Too few/many pilots of any kind?
3. What was your Naval Construction plan, and what would you change in the future?
4. What were your planes research, and production priorities, and what would you change?

Also, sort this 100k destroyed planes by Total Numbers. Was there more ZEROs, or P-40 lost?

I'll get some screens up in a bit. To answer some of your questions first though ...

1. This is a big question. Obviously there is a different answer through each era of game too. I'll default to the best in late war.

Sweeps: Ki-83 (but Frank Ki-84r and N1K5 are also very good)

CAP: Frank Ki-84b (against bombers) Frank Ki-84r and N1K5 George (against fighters)

Naval strike: Grace

2. I use the same method for all pilots in every game. I train intended skill (air, airfield bombing, search, etc) and then get defensive skill in some way (low sweep at 100ft for fighter pilots) for a few weeks. Depending on group and leader the turnaround could be averaging about three months? Just a guess. I go through them and find which are ready and start over.

I used a lot of FP groups to train fighter pilots. I resize to 20-24.

I always end up with more IJAAF bomber pilots than I need.

In future I'd be interested in a game with NO pilot trained allowed. I think it distorts the game mechanics too much to have so many highly skilled pilots for each side. Japan should suffer for pilots in the end. Experienced pilots should be precious. Lower skill levels would also tone down naval strikes, airfield bombing and sweep results.

3. I didn't build Musashi. I'd probably build it next time. Don't need the extra HI and It's useful.

4. I'll show more about production with screens in a bit. Not sure I'd change much. Probably make fewer Jacks, although they're useful early if they come before the George. The N1K5 is just very good as a final model.

I might also skip the Ki-100. The Tojos were fine for a service 1 fighter quite far into the game, and the Oscar line is more versatile. the final version is good with eh 20mm canons and works for the lower level of my CAP or for escort.

I built the Patsy, but it's too little too late. I think in general I'd streamline and build fewer late war models.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3622

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/26/2020 8:44:32 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

How the heck did the Yamato survive 6 torpedoes and where the heck did you hide her?

Stuck her in Hiroshima. She got some repairs done. I took her out recently and planned to use her with some float damage still unrepaired.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3623

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/26/2020 8:45:11 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Insano

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

How the heck did the Yamato survive 6 torpedoes and where the heck did you hide her?

+1

also were you producing late war destroyers right up till the end or did you eventually halt all shipbuilding?

I did keep making them. They're cheap to make and lose. Could have added to the fodder to strike at a Home Island invasion.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3624

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/28/2020 4:40:35 PM

Bif1961

Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline

Congrats to you and Dan, you both took it to the distance and we all learned from being onlookers of both your wonderful AARs.

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Post #: 3625

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