Is Football a Dying Sport?

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Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 6:12:15 AM

rhondabrwn

Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
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Just read this article which I found very thought provoking and frankly alarming. I had no idea brain damage was so pervasive in the sport. I'm hoping my grandchildren will not be encouraged (or even allowed) to play football.

Football's Death Spiral

What do you guys think?

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Post #: 1

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 6:31:05 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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Is Amercian Football a Dying Sport?

Well it should be

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Post #: 2

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 9:00:39 AM

ilovestrategy

Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline

Well Rhonda, they do make huge salaries. If brain damage is a possibility it is nothing more than an occupational hazard. And it is their occupation. They are professional athletes.

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Post #: 3

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 9:08:46 AM

ilovestrategy

Posts: 3611
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From: San Diego
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I just read that article. It seems to be nothing more than some guy on a verbal rampage.

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Post #: 4

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 12:47:55 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

"Death Spiral"? Not hardly. American Football has seen (and maintained) an explosive growth in popularity over the last two decades. No signs of a decrease in popularity at all.

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Post #: 5

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 1:13:14 PM

Dennistoun

Posts: 233
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Perth, Scotland.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

"Death Spiral"? Not hardly. American Football has seen (and maintained) an explosive growth in popularity over the last two decades. No signs of a decrease in popularity at all.

...and after a game like last night's it's popularity will only increase.

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 6

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 1:18:00 PM

Sarge

Posts: 2841
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: ask doggie
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Just read this article which I found very thought provoking and frankly alarming. I had no idea brain damage was so pervasive in the sport. I'm hoping my grandchildren will not be encouraged (or even allowed) to play football.
What do you guys think?

So lets get this straight ,
your �alarmed� that football can lead to injury, but encouraged with the thought of women being allowed in combat...

(in reply to rhondabrwn)

Post #: 7

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 2:09:01 PM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline

I hope your boat sinks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Is Amercian Football a Dying Sport?

Well it should be

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

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Post #: 8

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 3:01:01 PM

Jamm

Posts: 407
Joined: 10/2/2009
Status: offline

Yeah, awesome game last night.

Most things in life carry some risk, and the athletes are aware and paid handsomely to take these risks.
One can always become an chartered accountant,..

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When the going gets weird,... the weird turn pro
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Post #: 9

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 3:31:23 PM

parusski

Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Just read this article which I found very thought provoking and frankly alarming. I had no idea brain damage was so pervasive in the sport. I'm hoping my grandchildren will not be encouraged (or even allowed) to play football.
What do you guys think?

So lets get this straight ,
your �alarmed� that football can lead to injury, but encouraged with the thought of women being allowed in combat...

Good catch Sarge. I have always been left somewhat speechless by the double standard of some folks. If the current President and those who agree with him about women in combat are "Alarmed" at brain injuries in the NFL, will they be equally distraught when women come home in body bags? I strive to understand their line of reasoning, but I usually get a headache.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to Sarge)

Post #: 10

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 3:53:08 PM

RedArgo

Posts: 524
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Illinois
Status: offline

What could end football is not injuries to the adults who play in the NFL, but injuries that occur to children playing in high school and before. Once some high school ends up on the wrong end of a multi-million dollar law suit over brain injury, schools will have to make tough decisions about the future of continuing football programs.

(in reply to parusski)

Post #: 11

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 3:55:33 PM

parusski

Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedArgo

What could end football is not injuries to the adults who play in the NFL, but injuries that occur to children playing in high school and before. Once some high school ends up on the wrong end of a multi-million dollar law suit over brain injury, schools will have to make tough decisions about the future of continuing football programs.

But, but, but, football has been around more than long enough for this have happened now. This entire silly debate is being fueled by brain-dead politicians.

I throw my hands up.

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Post #: 12

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 4:01:58 PM

ilovestrategy

Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedArgo

What could end football is not injuries to the adults who play in the NFL, but injuries that occur to children playing in high school and before. Once some high school ends up on the wrong end of a multi-million dollar law suit over brain injury, schools will have to make tough decisions about the future of continuing football programs.

But how many decades have people been playing high school football?

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

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Post #: 13

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 4:05:10 PM

parusski

Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedArgo

What could end football is not injuries to the adults who play in the NFL, but injuries that occur to children playing in high school and before. Once some high school ends up on the wrong end of a multi-million dollar law suit over brain injury, schools will have to make tough decisions about the future of continuing football programs.

But how many decades have people been playing high school football?

Thanks for asking ILS, great question. Since you are all counting on me I will tell you: people have been playing high school football for...quiet a while. Good day.

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Post #: 14

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 5:19:15 PM

rodney727

Posts: 1460
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline

More kids today get concussions playing soccer than football! College football is king. My daughter got a concussion playing soccer last year. Soccer you would think would be safer than American football but its not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Just read this article which I found very thought provoking and frankly alarming. I had no idea brain damage was so pervasive in the sport. I'm hoping my grandchildren will not be encouraged (or even allowed) to play football.

Football's Death Spiral

What do you guys think?

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to rhondabrwn)

Post #: 15

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 5:28:20 PM

rodney727

Posts: 1460
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline

Simply no. Kids today are required to sign papers releasing the school from such lawsuits. In Nebraska you are allowed a max number of three concussions. Which I feel should really be two. High schools today have strict rules about injuries and if a coach has any doubt about any injury they are required to pull that student right away. They are only liable if they knowingly put the student back in after the fact. I strongly disagree this post below. Don't know of any school considering dropping a football program based on head injuries.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedArgo

What could end football is not injuries to the adults who play in the NFL, but injuries that occur to children playing in high school and before. Once some high school ends up on the wrong end of a multi-million dollar law suit over brain injury, schools will have to make tough decisions about the future of continuing football programs.

< Message edited by rogo727 -- 2/4/2013 5:38:33 PM >

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to RedArgo)

Post #: 16

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 5:48:48 PM

rodney727

Posts: 1460
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline

I think your overreacting based on one report. Football is huge and a matter of town pride. When Omaha nation picked up football (native American tribe). You know it's huge. My son loves it and yes I know the risks. I couldn't imagine the resentment he would have if I discouraged him not to play....

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrw

Just read this article which I found very thought provoking and frankly alarming. I had no idea brain damage was so pervasive in the sport. I'm hoping my grandchildren will not be encouraged (or even allowed) to play football.

Football's Death Spiral

What do you guys think?

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to rhondabrwn)

Post #: 17

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 6:19:00 PM

parusski

Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I think your overreacting based on one report. Football is huge and a matter of town pride. When Omaha nation picked up football (native American tribe). You know it's huge. My son loves it and yes I know the risks. I couldn't imagine the resentment he would have if I discouraged him not to play....

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrw

Just read this article which I found very thought provoking and frankly alarming. I had no idea brain damage was so pervasive in the sport. I'm hoping my grandchildren will not be encouraged (or even allowed) to play football.

Football's Death Spiral

What do you guys think?

You know rogo, this got started when the President, for some strange reason, decided to speak about the issue. A President has no business delving into almost everything that pops up. He stuck his nose in a local police issue a few years ago, again unnecessary and unwanted.

I got a concussion in 2005 when I tripped in our vets parking lot. I tripped over my own feet, but the vet was freaked out that I would sue them. I did not, because I believe in personal responsibility. So if people choose to play football, I can't see how they don't know they might get drain bamage.

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Post #: 18

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 6:58:13 PM

rodney727

Posts: 1460
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline

Well some years ago and I mean many years ago...Theador Roosevelt said he would outlaw college football if it didn't clean itself up. That's how the NCAA came about. Look up Minnesota vrs Iowa state I think three people were killed during that game. The helmets they have now are outstanding.

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I think your overreacting based on one report. Football is huge and a matter of town pride. When Omaha nation picked up football (native American tribe). You know it's huge. My son loves it and yes I know the risks. I couldn't imagine the resentment he would have if I discouraged him not to play....

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrw

Just read this article which I found very thought provoking and frankly alarming. I had no idea brain damage was so pervasive in the sport. I'm hoping my grandchildren will not be encouraged (or even allowed) to play football.

Football's Death Spiral

What do you guys think?

You know rogo, this got started when the President, for some strange reason, decided to speak about the issue. A President has no business delving into almost everything that pops up. He stuck his nose in a local police issue a few years ago, again unnecessary and unwanted.

I got a concussion in 2005 when I tripped in our vets parking lot. I tripped over my own feet, but the vet was freaked out that I would sue them. I did not, because I believe in personal responsibility. So if people choose to play football, I can't see how they don't know they might get drain bamage.

< Message edited by rogo727 -- 2/4/2013 7:00:03 PM >

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to parusski)

Post #: 19

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 7:02:17 PM

parusski

Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Well some years ago and I mean many years ago...Theador Roosevelt said he would outlaw college football if it didn't clean itself up. That's how the NCAA came about. Look up Minnesota vrs Iowa state I think three people were killed during that game. The helmets they have now are outstanding.

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I think your overreacting based on one report. Football is huge and a matter of town pride. When Omaha nation picked up football (native American tribe). You know it's huge. My son loves it and yes I know the risks. I couldn't imagine the resentment he would have if I discouraged him not to play....

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrw

Just read this article which I found very thought provoking and frankly alarming. I had no idea brain damage was so pervasive in the sport. I'm hoping my grandchildren will not be encouraged (or even allowed) to play football.

Football's Death Spiral

What do you guys think?

You know rogo, this got started when the President, for some strange reason, decided to speak about the issue. A President has no business delving into almost everything that pops up. He stuck his nose in a local police issue a few years ago, again unnecessary and unwanted.

I got a concussion in 2005 when I tripped in our vets parking lot. I tripped over my own feet, but the vet was freaked out that I would sue them. I did not, because I believe in personal responsibility. So if people choose to play football, I can't see how they don't know they might get drain bamage.

I forgot about that. But I still do not think ANY President needs to be jumping into things like this. It is not his job. But bigger than that is the fact that some people really seem to want to do away with anything even slightly dangerous. It makes me wonder what planet they are from.

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Post #: 20

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 7:10:46 PM

rodney727

Posts: 1460
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline

Truth is Americans feel about football as the world feels about soccer. It's a matter of pride. If they replaced football with soccer it would be the end of rivals as we know it. If Minnesota beat Iowa in soccer I could care less. But by god if they beat us in football it's another matter in itself .

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Well some years ago and I mean many years ago...Theador Roosevelt said he would outlaw college football if it didn't clean itself up. That's how the NCAA came about. Look up Minnesota vrs Iowa state I think three people were killed during that game. The helmets they have now are outstanding.

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I think your overreacting based on one report. Football is huge and a matter of town pride. When Omaha nation picked up football (native American tribe). You know it's huge. My son loves it and yes I know the risks. I couldn't imagine the resentment he would have if I discouraged him not to play....

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrw

Just read this article which I found very thought provoking and frankly alarming. I had no idea brain damage was so pervasive in the sport. I'm hoping my grandchildren will not be encouraged (or even allowed) to play football.

Football's Death Spiral

What do you guys think?

You know rogo, this got started when the President, for some strange reason, decided to speak about the issue. A President has no business delving into almost everything that pops up. He stuck his nose in a local police issue a few years ago, again unnecessary and unwanted.

I got a concussion in 2005 when I tripped in our vets parking lot. I tripped over my own feet, but the vet was freaked out that I would sue them. I did not, because I believe in personal responsibility. So if people choose to play football, I can't see how they don't know they might get drain bamage.

I forgot about that. But I still do not think ANY President needs to be jumping into things like this. It is not his job. But bigger than that is the fact that some people really seem to want to do away with anything even slightly dangerous. It makes me wonder what planet they are from.

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to parusski)

Post #: 21

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 7:17:55 PM

parusski

Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Truth is Americans feel about football as the world feels about soccer. It's a matter of pride. If they replaced football with soccer it would be the end of rivals as we know it. If Minnesota beat Iowa in soccer I could care less. But by god if they beat us in football it's another matter in itself .

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Well some years ago and I mean many years ago...Theador Roosevelt said he would outlaw college football if it didn't clean itself up. That's how the NCAA came about. Look up Minnesota vrs Iowa state I think three people were killed during that game. The helmets they have now are outstanding.

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I think your overreacting based on one report. Football is huge and a matter of town pride. When Omaha nation picked up football (native American tribe). You know it's huge. My son loves it and yes I know the risks. I couldn't imagine the resentment he would have if I discouraged him not to play....

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrw

Just read this article which I found very thought provoking and frankly alarming. I had no idea brain damage was so pervasive in the sport. I'm hoping my grandchildren will not be encouraged (or even allowed) to play football.

Football's Death Spiral

What do you guys think?

You know rogo, this got started when the President, for some strange reason, decided to speak about the issue. A President has no business delving into almost everything that pops up. He stuck his nose in a local police issue a few years ago, again unnecessary and unwanted.

I got a concussion in 2005 when I tripped in our vets parking lot. I tripped over my own feet, but the vet was freaked out that I would sue them. I did not, because I believe in personal responsibility. So if people choose to play football, I can't see how they don't know they might get drain bamage.

I forgot about that. But I still do not think ANY President needs to be jumping into things like this. It is not his job. But bigger than that is the fact that some people really seem to want to do away with anything even slightly dangerous. It makes me wonder what planet they are from.

Dear God you are a heretic for even suggesting that REAL FOOTBALL(American style) be replaced by a bunch of sissies prancing around on grass tossing their long, flowing hair(and salads) while trying to kick a stupid round ball...uh, where was I. Oh, NEVER.

_____________________________

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Post #: 22

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 7:20:03 PM

pzgndr

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

This entire silly debate is being fueled by brain-dead politicians.

In sports, there is a risk of brain damage.

In politics, there is a requirement for brain damage.

(in reply to parusski)

Post #: 23

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 7:21:57 PM

parusski

Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

This entire silly debate is being fueled by brain-dead politicians.

In sports, there is a risk of brain damage.

In politics, there is a requirement for brain damage.

Spoken like a true thinker.

_____________________________

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Post #: 24

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 7:41:12 PM

Jeffrey H.

Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Just read this article which I found very thought provoking and frankly alarming. I had no idea brain damage was so pervasive in the sport. I'm hoping my grandchildren will not be encouraged (or even allowed) to play football.

Football's Death Spiral

What do you guys think?

We need helmet control for the NFL, it's the helmets which cause the damage to the head. Low capacity helmets and elimination of assualt helmets would make the world such a better place.

But really, football as an organized sport is essentially a displacement of the aggressive tendencies of mankind into less damaging and costly activities for society as a whole. Nerfing the game will result in the aggression being played out in other ways.

_____________________________

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Ron Swanson

(in reply to rhondabrwn)

Post #: 25

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 8:04:38 PM

parusski

Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Just read this article which I found very thought provoking and frankly alarming. I had no idea brain damage was so pervasive in the sport. I'm hoping my grandchildren will not be encouraged (or even allowed) to play football.

Football's Death Spiral

What do you guys think?

We need helmet control for the NFL, it's the helmets which cause the damage to the head. Low capacity helmets and elimination of assualt helmets would make the world such a better place.

But really, football as an organized sport is essentially a displacement of the aggressive tendencies of mankind into less damaging and costly activities for society as a whole. Nerfing the game will result in the aggression being played out in other ways.

I was thinking the same things. President Obama should issue an executive order banning assault helmets. WOW, problem solved.

_____________________________

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)

Post #: 26

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 10:19:35 PM

Gilmer

Posts: 1452
Joined: 7/1/2011
Status: offline

I just find it very hard to believe that there is this magnifying glass on football when you have several sports where the objective is to beat the opponent senseless. Boxing, MMA, UFC...

I'm not wilting daisy or whatever they call it. I participated in an amateur boxing club. Two of the guys on in my club went on to win titles in amateur boxing - one in the bantam weight and one in welterweight.

Hell, I loved watching boxing as a kid and still like watching a good boxing match, but about 80% of the punches in pro boxing go straight to the head. You would think they'd be more worried about that.

(in reply to parusski)

Post #: 27

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 11:05:59 PM

rodney727

Posts: 1460
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline

Mma. If you get knocked out it is treated as a concision . You cannot compete for 90 days. Like I said my daughter loves soccer but make no mistake it is a violet sport . No head gear it is very easy for a head injury. This last Saturday two girls were knocked out by running into each other. In volleyball this last summer two girls got a concussion from spiked balls to the head. Even in softball you are not safe. Both my kids are very active in sports. In fact the only sport I can think of is swim team where I can go and watch and not think of a serious injury. The one sport I fear the most is wrestling in which my son has competed in since 2nd grade.. He loves that and football. Can you tell your kids not to compete ? Both my kids are building life skills that they need to be a success in life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: H Gilmer

I just find it very hard to believe that there is this magnifying glass on football when you have several sports where the objective is to beat the opponent senseless. Boxing, MMA, UFC...

I'm not wilting daisy or whatever they call it. I participated in an amateur boxing club. Two of the guys on in my club went on to win titles in amateur boxing - one in the bantam weight and one in welterweight.

Hell, I loved watching boxing as a kid and still like watching a good boxing match, but about 80% of the punches in pro boxing go straight to the head. You would think they'd be more worried about that.

< Message edited by rogo727 -- 2/4/2013 11:07:51 PM >

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Gilmer)

Post #: 28

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 11:13:27 PM

rodney727

Posts: 1460
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline

+100

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Just read this article which I found very thought provoking and frankly alarming. I had no idea brain damage was so pervasive in the sport. I'm hoping my grandchildren will not be encouraged (or even allowed) to play football.
What do you guys think?

So lets get this straight ,
your �alarmed� that football can lead to injury, but encouraged with the thought of women being allowed in combat...

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Sarge)

Post #: 29

RE: Is Football a Dying Sport? - 2/4/2013 11:15:24 PM

parusski

Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: H Gilmer

I just find it very hard to believe that there is this magnifying glass on football when you have several sports where the objective is to beat the opponent senseless. Boxing, MMA, UFC...

I'm not wilting daisy or whatever they call it. I participated in an amateur boxing club. Two of the guys on in my club went on to win titles in amateur boxing - one in the bantam weight and one in welterweight.

Hell, I loved watching boxing as a kid and still like watching a good boxing match, but about 80% of the punches in pro boxing go straight to the head. You would think they'd be more worried about that.

Of course this make no damned sense. It makes no sense that the "leader" of the free world would have have time to comment on this issue. Much less start pontificating that even high school students are not "old enough to decide whether to play football". He actually said that. I don't care which political party a president belongs to, he/she/it has no business in this kind of thing, so don't even think of attacking me on this. Oh well, our leader was speaking, AGAIN, of the "...son" he does not have.

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(in reply to Gilmer)