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RE: Pricing Suggestion

 
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RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 7:00:24 PM   
gexmex

 

Posts: 150
Joined: 11/13/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
I may be falling into your category as well. Bill Me Later is a dangerous thing....but as they say, it's easier to apologize than to ask for permission!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

I am more and more tempted the more I read. Now a seat for counselling how can I not turn you down.


I will need to do it when she isn't standing over my shoulder....
quote:


(in reply to smudge56)
Post #: 481
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 7:06:17 PM   
Wiz33

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline
Why is this thread still open?

If you think the price is set too high. You are wrong. Matrix have been in this business for a long time and I think they have the sales data to support their pricing structure or they would be out of business a long time ago.

If it's more than you can afford now. Save some money and get it later. Maybe you'll get lucky and there would be a sale or coupon.

If you can afford it and are on the fence. Wait a bit and watch some of the videos and read some of the AAR and reviews. Then make your decision.

Discussion closed.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 482
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 7:26:06 PM   
smudge56

 

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
Status: offline
You make a good point deception first then apologise when caught...

obviously the post before doesn't understand the trouble and strife. ?...
quote:

ORIGINAL: gexmex

I may be falling into your category as well. Bill Me Later is a dangerous thing....but as they say, it's easier to apologize than to ask for permission!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

I am more and more tempted the more I read. Now a seat for counselling how can I not turn you down.


I will need to do it when she isn't standing over my shoulder....
quote:




(in reply to gexmex)
Post #: 483
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 7:29:06 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pii



quote:


So who wastes money on a bad game? Would you buy say, the Amiga version of SSI's Gettysburg? Pay $50 or $10, won't change the fact that the 2nd day scenario is unplayable.



WTF LOL ? Well to start with I'm sure EVERYONE of us has wasted money on a bad game and since I retired my Amiga years ago no I wouldn't and that the stupidest example I've ever heard. But I have bought many games I would not have on Steam if they hadn't had a sale and at a certain point I've even bought games other had claimed were bad.

quote:


What about Braveheart? That was a freakin bad game I paid full price for. Buying it for say 1/3 the price isn't going to change that.


Face palm! LOL It may not change it for you since you already bought it but it does for those that didn't.


Why is it a bad example. According to you, lower the price and it will sell. Guess not eh.

A bad game is a bad game. Decreasing the price isn't going to make it any better. Even at $1.99 it's a waste of time and money.

My copy of Braveheart, and Tiller's Jutland, did a great service at the rifle range.

1943 Mosin-Nagant $100.

7.62x54r cartridge .50cents

Making sure those games never bothered anyone again, priceless.

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 9/26/2013 7:30:40 PM >


_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to Pii)
Post #: 484
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 7:47:26 PM   
Alejo1968


Posts: 101
Joined: 10/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

The game does have a high cost.....but has anyone looked at Battlefront prices.  Their not cheap.  The way I see it, Matrix has ever right to charge what they want for their product(their not the gas company/electric).  If you can afford it excellent, but if the game is out of your price range-then you can't buy it, period.  Just like a lower to a higher grade auto.  After reading the thread some seem to indicate that they are entitled to this game no matter what the cost.  I for one drive a low end car, why, I can't afford a higher price car.  We don't bash them.  I just don't buy the car.

So you might want to give them a break.  I think some are upset because they want the game but can't afford it and their getting personal.  I bought the game(and I am far from rich)but if I didn't have the money....I would just moved along.

Note: If my wife knew she would kill me! I'll admit it, I'am a game Whore. I need counseling.



See there are many of us who are going to be killed by our wives. If there is an increase of murders you'll know why


Right now, I can see her innocent eyes, still ignoring what Im about to do ...

(in reply to smudge56)
Post #: 485
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 7:50:02 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline
Blame it on Blighty! I'll pull up another chair for the group.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Abbeville_01


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

The game does have a high cost.....but has anyone looked at Battlefront prices.  Their not cheap.  The way I see it, Matrix has ever right to charge what they want for their product(their not the gas company/electric).  If you can afford it excellent, but if the game is out of your price range-then you can't buy it, period.  Just like a lower to a higher grade auto.  After reading the thread some seem to indicate that they are entitled to this game no matter what the cost.  I for one drive a low end car, why, I can't afford a higher price car.  We don't bash them.  I just don't buy the car.

So you might want to give them a break.  I think some are upset because they want the game but can't afford it and their getting personal.  I bought the game(and I am far from rich)but if I didn't have the money....I would just moved along.

Note: If my wife knew she would kill me! I'll admit it, I'am a game Whore. I need counseling.



See there are many of us who are going to be killed by our wives. If there is an increase of murders you'll know why


Right now, I can see her innocent eyes, still ignoring what Im about to do ...




_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to Alejo1968)
Post #: 486
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 7:51:42 PM   
smudge56

 

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
Status: offline
Where do you live so we can prepare the police of a potential murder...




quote:

ORIGINAL: Abbeville_01


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

The game does have a high cost.....but has anyone looked at Battlefront prices.  Their not cheap.  The way I see it, Matrix has ever right to charge what they want for their product(their not the gas company/electric).  If you can afford it excellent, but if the game is out of your price range-then you can't buy it, period.  Just like a lower to a higher grade auto.  After reading the thread some seem to indicate that they are entitled to this game no matter what the cost.  I for one drive a low end car, why, I can't afford a higher price car.  We don't bash them.  I just don't buy the car.

So you might want to give them a break.  I think some are upset because they want the game but can't afford it and their getting personal.  I bought the game(and I am far from rich)but if I didn't have the money....I would just moved along.

Note: If my wife knew she would kill me! I'll admit it, I'am a game Whore. I need counseling.



See there are many of us who are going to be killed by our wives. If there is an increase of murders you'll know why


Right now, I can see her innocent eyes, still ignoring what Im about to do ...




< Message edited by Blighty56 -- 9/26/2013 7:52:40 PM >

(in reply to Alejo1968)
Post #: 487
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 7:52:57 PM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
Joined: 6/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pii



quote:


So who wastes money on a bad game? Would you buy say, the Amiga version of SSI's Gettysburg? Pay $50 or $10, won't change the fact that the 2nd day scenario is unplayable.



WTF LOL ? Well to start with I'm sure EVERYONE of us has wasted money on a bad game and since I retired my Amiga years ago no I wouldn't and that the stupidest example I've ever heard. But I have bought many games I would not have on Steam if they hadn't had a sale and at a certain point I've even bought games other had claimed were bad.

quote:


What about Braveheart? That was a freakin bad game I paid full price for. Buying it for say 1/3 the price isn't going to change that.


Face palm! LOL It may not change it for you since you already bought it but it does for those that didn't.


Why is it a bad example. According to you, lower the price and it will sell. Guess not eh.

A bad game is a bad game. Decreasing the price isn't going to make it any better. Even at $1.99 it's a waste of time and money.

My copy of Braveheart, and Tiller's Jutland, did a great service at the rifle range.

1943 Mosin-Nagant $100.

7.62x54r cartridge .50cents

Making sure those games never bothered anyone again, priceless.


I recomend you "Steam and Iron" is more a naval game than a target for a bolt rifle and you can add a campaign module (Baltic campaign and North Sea Campaign) ooo and they are working in a RJW title.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 488
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 7:57:40 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline
But my wife would get all my games. Her next husband would have them(her cousin-I live in Arkansas).
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

Where do you live so we can prepare the police of a potential murder...




quote:

ORIGINAL: Abbeville_01


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

The game does have a high cost.....but has anyone looked at Battlefront prices.  Their not cheap.  The way I see it, Matrix has ever right to charge what they want for their product(their not the gas company/electric).  If you can afford it excellent, but if the game is out of your price range-then you can't buy it, period.  Just like a lower to a higher grade auto.  After reading the thread some seem to indicate that they are entitled to this game no matter what the cost.  I for one drive a low end car, why, I can't afford a higher price car.  We don't bash them.  I just don't buy the car.

So you might want to give them a break.  I think some are upset because they want the game but can't afford it and their getting personal.  I bought the game(and I am far from rich)but if I didn't have the money....I would just moved along.

Note: If my wife knew she would kill me! I'll admit it, I'am a game Whore. I need counseling.



See there are many of us who are going to be killed by our wives. If there is an increase of murders you'll know why


Right now, I can see her innocent eyes, still ignoring what Im about to do ...






< Message edited by Titanwarrior89 -- 9/26/2013 7:58:07 PM >


_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to smudge56)
Post #: 489
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 7:57:57 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexagon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pii



quote:


So who wastes money on a bad game? Would you buy say, the Amiga version of SSI's Gettysburg? Pay $50 or $10, won't change the fact that the 2nd day scenario is unplayable.



WTF LOL ? Well to start with I'm sure EVERYONE of us has wasted money on a bad game and since I retired my Amiga years ago no I wouldn't and that the stupidest example I've ever heard. But I have bought many games I would not have on Steam if they hadn't had a sale and at a certain point I've even bought games other had claimed were bad.

quote:


What about Braveheart? That was a freakin bad game I paid full price for. Buying it for say 1/3 the price isn't going to change that.


Face palm! LOL It may not change it for you since you already bought it but it does for those that didn't.


Why is it a bad example. According to you, lower the price and it will sell. Guess not eh.

A bad game is a bad game. Decreasing the price isn't going to make it any better. Even at $1.99 it's a waste of time and money.

My copy of Braveheart, and Tiller's Jutland, did a great service at the rifle range.

1943 Mosin-Nagant $100.

7.62x54r cartridge .50cents

Making sure those games never bothered anyone again, priceless.


I recomend you "Steam and Iron" is more a naval game than a target for a bolt rifle and you can add a campaign module (Baltic campaign and North Sea Campaign) ooo and they are working in a RJW title.


SAI is on the buy list. Reminds me of Action Stations. Which I played for a long time. (Still do at times.)

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 9/26/2013 8:00:44 PM >


_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to Hexagon)
Post #: 490
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 8:02:17 PM   
Floyd

 

Posts: 177
Joined: 1/6/2006
Status: offline
If the price for a war game is about 40 Euro anyway, then i'm glad to
pay 80-100 for a decent simulation that i'm sure will give me years of excellent game
play. I've purchased several titles from Matrix and i believe they did take the right
decisions over the last years to stay in business.

Having to pay 40 Euro plus 10 for each of the next 4++ years to come is pretty cheap

(in reply to Hexagon)
Post #: 491
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 8:14:08 PM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: flanyboy
I was listening to a podcast with the marketing director from GOG.com a few days back and they were debating the merits of steam and the LONG TERM viability of such a sales model.


The guy from gog.com is always slamming Steam, probably because it's his main competitor... it's not like gog.com is exactly expensive either.


_____________________________


(in reply to histgamer)
Post #: 492
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 8:19:56 PM   
smudge56

 

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
Status: offline
You make a good point the she would have to kil them. Serial killer now.





quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

But my wife would get all my games. Her next husband would have them(her cousin-I live in Arkansas).
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

Where do you live so we can prepare the police of a potential murder...




quote:

ORIGINAL: Abbeville_01


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

The game does have a high cost.....but has anyone looked at Battlefront prices.  Their not cheap.  The way I see it, Matrix has ever right to charge what they want for their product(their not the gas company/electric).  If you can afford it excellent, but if the game is out of your price range-then you can't buy it, period.  Just like a lower to a higher grade auto.  After reading the thread some seem to indicate that they are entitled to this game no matter what the cost.  I for one drive a low end car, why, I can't afford a higher price car.  We don't bash them.  I just don't buy the car.

So you might want to give them a break.  I think some are upset because they want the game but can't afford it and their getting personal.  I bought the game(and I am far from rich)but if I didn't have the money....I would just moved along.

Note: If my wife knew she would kill me! I'll admit it, I'am a game Whore. I need counseling.



See there are many of us who are going to be killed by our wives. If there is an increase of murders you'll know why


Right now, I can see her innocent eyes, still ignoring what Im about to do ...







(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 493
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 8:21:18 PM   
smudge56

 

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
Status: offline
I'm going to wait until she is asleep in a bit then do it lol.

(in reply to smudge56)
Post #: 494
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 9:06:02 PM   
JDM

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline
Tomn you seem like a particularly inciteful chap, particularly well informed about business practices. In the context of this thread I would be interested on your take on this article http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups

(in reply to Tomn)
Post #: 495
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 9:22:34 PM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

7.62x54r cartridge .50cents

Making sure those games never bothered anyone again, priceless.


50 Cents! What they are $89 per 400 at the sportsman's guide...don't ask me how I know this.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 496
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 9:31:21 PM   
JDM

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomn


quote:

ORIGINAL: wombat778

For the folks that disagree with Matrix's business model and that strongly believe there is a great untapped wargamer market out there, it seems like the right capitalistic answer is to start up a competing business. Pull together a business plan, a pitch, and some funds/investors. Then, go out and find some new wargamer developers and sell them on your business plan. If the developers agree with your ideas for a low price/mass audience business model, it shouldn't be impossible to convince them to sign with you (particularly if you are willing to provide them with development funding). Seriously, people create start-up businesses all the time, and it really isn't that hard to do if you are willing to take a risk with your time and money.



This is true, but not all of us here are exactly in a position to drop everything and go full-time into a start-up. Particularly since one would argue that it'd be easier to self-publish a wargame as a dev through crowdfunding first, and then try to go into publishing with some credentials behind you. Not everyone who sees a problem is in a position to do something about it directly.

That said, I will certainly be keeping an eye out on Kickstarter for any promising candidates, and I encourage everyone here to do the same. Thanks to crowdfunding, one is no longer required to risk everything to put your money where your mouth is.


HI Again Tomn I realise that you are not in a position to drop everything and leap into a start up. It's not any easy route. I started my first start up some 45 years ago, had to mortgage the family home to do it, so I really do get your point. Matter of fact what do you do for a living, you're obviously a pretty knowledgable business type, so I cannot help but ponder?
On the startup/kickstarter issue or developers trying to go it alone, what is your assessment of what went wrong here. http://tinyurl.com/qhw276u And see this one as well.
http://flippfly.com/news/race-the-sun-a-month-after-launch-losing-steam/ Personally I think they are both credible games. The sadness is that I am seeing a spate of such situations and would you believe that presently I have 6 developers in my in box who would like to place their games with us. Two of these tried to make it on their own and are on their last legs. Our problem is that we are not a distributor and we can't just drop their games onto our site as per the Steam or GOG business models, but I expect you know the difference. AS I am sure you are aware our business model means that we will have to work with these games and support the development teams for up to the next 12 months or so. I am really interested in your take here and wonder how you might play it?




Personally I think

(in reply to Tomn)
Post #: 497
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 9:50:05 PM   
Maesphil74

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 4/10/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JDM


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomn


quote:

ORIGINAL: wombat778

For the folks that disagree with Matrix's business model and that strongly believe there is a great untapped wargamer market out there, it seems like the right capitalistic answer is to start up a competing business. Pull together a business plan, a pitch, and some funds/investors. Then, go out and find some new wargamer developers and sell them on your business plan. If the developers agree with your ideas for a low price/mass audience business model, it shouldn't be impossible to convince them to sign with you (particularly if you are willing to provide them with development funding). Seriously, people create start-up businesses all the time, and it really isn't that hard to do if you are willing to take a risk with your time and money.



This is true, but not all of us here are exactly in a position to drop everything and go full-time into a start-up. Particularly since one would argue that it'd be easier to self-publish a wargame as a dev through crowdfunding first, and then try to go into publishing with some credentials behind you. Not everyone who sees a problem is in a position to do something about it directly.

That said, I will certainly be keeping an eye out on Kickstarter for any promising candidates, and I encourage everyone here to do the same. Thanks to crowdfunding, one is no longer required to risk everything to put your money where your mouth is.


HI Again Tomn I realise that you are not in a position to drop everything and leap into a start up. It's not any easy route. I started my first start up some 45 years ago, had to mortgage the family home to do it, so I really do get your point. Matter of fact what do you do for a living, you're obviously a pretty knowledgable business type, so I cannot help but ponder?
On the startup/kickstarter issue or developers trying to go it alone, what is your assessment of what went wrong here. http://tinyurl.com/qhw276u And see this one as well.
http://flippfly.com/news/race-the-sun-a-month-after-launch-losing-steam/ Personally I think they are both credible games. The sadness is that I am seeing a spate of such situations and would you believe that presently I have 6 developers in my in box who would like to place their games with us. Two of these tried to make it on their own and are on their last legs. Our problem is that we are not a distributor and we can't just drop their games onto our site as per the Steam or GOG business models, but I expect you know the difference. AS I am sure you are aware our business model means that we will have to work with these games and support the development teams for up to the next 12 months or so. I am really interested in your take here and wonder how you might play it?




Personally I think

You do realise that one of those links is suggesting to lower the price i/o to increase sales volumes?

(in reply to JDM)
Post #: 498
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 10:20:33 PM   
Tomn

 

Posts: 148
Joined: 4/22/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JDM

Tomn you seem like a particularly inciteful chap, particularly well informed about business practices. In the context of this thread I would be interested on your take on this article http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups


I believe I can say without any of my usual reservation that everyone here will heartily condemn anyone who thinks it'd be a good idea to send death threats to Matrix Games or the devs. Just not on, that.

That said, I don't really think I see how this article applies to this thread (or to me, if you'd been intending to do that). The article seems to state that verbal and emotional violence by fans as a method of persuasion is becoming increasingly and disturbingly common in the gaming industry. Death threats, threats of physical violence, racist/sexist/homophobic slurs - well, we've seen that commonly enough on XBox Live, I think, and a sad thing that is. Yet nobody here has been doing any of that - we have been disagreeing with a decision that was made, certainly, but the most that could be said to be aggressive is a conspiracy theory (refreshingly free of death threats, unlike some conspiracy nutters I could name) and some disgruntled muttering. The article is not, to my reading, condemning persuasion or debate - it is, rather, condemning violence. So long as we avoid resorting to slurs and violence, putting forth every point we make as reasonably and as clearly as we can (preferably without trying to start any fights along the way), I have to say I don't see the sin in argument.

It's worth considering, too, that the article is condemning violence against game devs - but on both sides of the debate here this thread has been nothing but supportive regarding the devs. The disagreement is purely over a financial publishing decision, and many of those arguing against the status quo are arguing that a change would in fact benefit the devs. I will grant that those who make the financial decisions might be discouraged to see such disagreement, but to be blunt, such decisions would surely have been argued and debated internally, and it seems silly to suggest that such internal disagreements constitute harassment, as they surely must be if our current debate is such.

I hope that was sufficiently insightful to meet with your standards?

(in reply to JDM)
Post #: 499
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 10:21:38 PM   
JDM

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline
I certainly do, the strategy of desperation I'm afraid. In any event it has not helped. What next I wonder :-)

(in reply to Maesphil74)
Post #: 500
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 10:39:52 PM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline
Oh and by the way, my wife was so glad it came out because she was tired of hearing about it. Maybe that would help in the future? I mean she wanted me to get a laptop and I refused until it was released. She thinks she won...hehe

(in reply to JDM)
Post #: 501
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 10:41:50 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

7.62x54r cartridge .50cents

Making sure those games never bothered anyone again, priceless.


50 Cents! What they are $89 per 400 at the sportsman's guide...don't ask me how I know this.


Never bought ammo online. Let's say that where I live doesn't rent to the most trustworthy people :)

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 502
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 10:55:49 PM   
smudge56

 

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
Status: offline
Nice win for you lucky man. I've kind of done that on another game so cannot use it again lol.
quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan

Oh and by the way, my wife was so glad it came out because she was tired of hearing about it. Maybe that would help in the future? I mean she wanted me to get a laptop and I refused until it was released. She thinks she won...hehe


(in reply to JRyan)
Post #: 503
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 11:06:08 PM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

7.62x54r cartridge .50cents

Making sure those games never bothered anyone again, priceless.


50 Cents! What they are $89 per 400 at the sportsman's guide...don't ask me how I know this.


Never bought ammo online. Let's say that where I live doesn't rent to the most trustworthy people :)


You gotta hunt to find the best deals and most trust worthy for ammo hunting online. I got 2 that I trust, but 1 is my main online ammo supplier and they did not price gouge the .22LR like everyone else as they got it in.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 504
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 11:22:11 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

7.62x54r cartridge .50cents

Making sure those games never bothered anyone again, priceless.


50 Cents! What they are $89 per 400 at the sportsman's guide...don't ask me how I know this.


Never bought ammo online. Let's say that where I live doesn't rent to the most trustworthy people :)


You gotta hunt to find the best deals and most trust worthy for ammo hunting online. I got 2 that I trust, but 1 is my main online ammo supplier and they did not price gouge the .22LR like everyone else as they got it in.


It isn't finding ammo on the net. :)

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to 2ndACR)
Post #: 505
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 11:30:38 PM   
Tomn

 

Posts: 148
Joined: 4/22/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JDM


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomn


quote:

ORIGINAL: wombat778

For the folks that disagree with Matrix's business model and that strongly believe there is a great untapped wargamer market out there, it seems like the right capitalistic answer is to start up a competing business. Pull together a business plan, a pitch, and some funds/investors. Then, go out and find some new wargamer developers and sell them on your business plan. If the developers agree with your ideas for a low price/mass audience business model, it shouldn't be impossible to convince them to sign with you (particularly if you are willing to provide them with development funding). Seriously, people create start-up businesses all the time, and it really isn't that hard to do if you are willing to take a risk with your time and money.



This is true, but not all of us here are exactly in a position to drop everything and go full-time into a start-up. Particularly since one would argue that it'd be easier to self-publish a wargame as a dev through crowdfunding first, and then try to go into publishing with some credentials behind you. Not everyone who sees a problem is in a position to do something about it directly.

That said, I will certainly be keeping an eye out on Kickstarter for any promising candidates, and I encourage everyone here to do the same. Thanks to crowdfunding, one is no longer required to risk everything to put your money where your mouth is.


HI Again Tomn I realise that you are not in a position to drop everything and leap into a start up. It's not any easy route. I started my first start up some 45 years ago, had to mortgage the family home to do it, so I really do get your point. Matter of fact what do you do for a living, you're obviously a pretty knowledgable business type, so I cannot help but ponder?
On the startup/kickstarter issue or developers trying to go it alone, what is your assessment of what went wrong here. http://tinyurl.com/qhw276u And see this one as well.
http://flippfly.com/news/race-the-sun-a-month-after-launch-losing-steam/ Personally I think they are both credible games. The sadness is that I am seeing a spate of such situations and would you believe that presently I have 6 developers in my in box who would like to place their games with us. Two of these tried to make it on their own and are on their last legs. Our problem is that we are not a distributor and we can't just drop their games onto our site as per the Steam or GOG business models, but I expect you know the difference. AS I am sure you are aware our business model means that we will have to work with these games and support the development teams for up to the next 12 months or so. I am really interested in your take here and wonder how you might play it?

Personally I think


Well, as it happens, I'm a medical copywriter (and, I'm hoping, future novelist). Not precisely the best credentials for arguing business practices in the gaming industry, you might say, but I'm of the opinion that two and two makes four whether it comes from the mouth of a beggar, a king, a child or a mathematician. It seems to me that in any argument, it is much better to discuss every point as it comes instead of judging them based on who they came from - and if you disagree with anything I've said, I hope you'll make your specific objections clear, and I will in turn tackle them as best I can.

To begin with, please allow me to clarify my position in the post you quoted - I find that the majority of disputes are commonly resolved by the simple expedient of making it clear what is being argued, to prevent people talking past each other. I am saying that Kickstarting and self-publishing IS difficult - that was in fact the point of my post, as the person I was responding to was suggesting that those who feel that Matrix Games is misguided should simply make their own start-up and take off. I disagree with this - one needs a certain combination of skill, talent, and luck to successfully self-publish, and it isn't something anyone can just dive into and expect to succeed. At the same time, however, Kickstarter DOES improve the luck of those who have the requisite skill and talent, and at the very least unlocks them from the absolute need to go to a publisher. I say, then, that it is entirely possible that someone with that skill and talent will eventually go to Kickstarter with a solid idea for a good wargame and a clear project plan, and that when this happens, it would only be beneficial to the wargaming industry for everyone here to crowdfund that baby until it explodes.

Now, let's take on the two examples you have given. You are attempting, correct me if I'm wrong here, to demonstrate that trying to self-publish is fraught with risks, that it isn't as easy as it looks, and that it isn't really a viable alternative compared to publishing with Matrix Games. The first two are unquestionable, and the reason why is pretty clear - a lot of start-ups are extremely poorly thought-out. If you've ever heard of "Your Kickstarter Sucks," well, it becomes clear why many Kickstarters fail (did you know someone actually tried to run a Kickstarter to promote a "New Black"? It's true!) Yet this doesn't exactly eliminate self-publishing or crowdsourcing as a potential source of competition to Matrix Games, and I don't believe the examples you've chosen support your point. Let's take a closer look and see how that goes.

Your first link, "Fuel Overdose," is a combat racing game for the PS3, and the interview is with the understandably somewhat bitter creator. A quick look at Metacritic suggests a very middling score, and the article notes various localization costs - one supposes that he either thought that would be critical, or was forced to do so to get onto the PS3 store. He insists that he has received unfair media attention, and that not enough people have tried to promote the game when it came out. He doesn't seem to have been trying to cover any very particular niche, and was limited to the PS3 store - where, apparently, his offering was diluted by being placed next to general multimedia offerings (I'm ignorant of how this works myself, not owning a PS3, so if anyone could go into further detail on how it works, that would be appreciated).

In short, we have someone who made an apparently mediocre game (you can hardly argue that it requires a special breed of mind to understand and enjoy a combat racing game!), who decided to or was forced to invest in localization, who did not make a particularly unique or outstanding game covering something rarely covered (he's competing with freaking Mario Kart!), and who was being marketed on a distribution platform that doesn't cater exclusively to games. I'm sorry to say it, but the picture being painted here doesn't really suggest that he would have done much better if he HAD gotten a publisher, if indeed he could have found one. Proof that Kickstarter is not a sure, instant path to riches? Certainly, and in some circles a well-needed one. Proof that Kickstarter can't compete with established publishers? Not hardly.

Now let's take a look at Race The Sun. This seems to have been managed much better and much more professionally than was Fuel Overdose. This is a procedural racer that was developed for the PC and which was distributed using their own website - and not a whole lot else. It was received much more favorably than Fuel Overdose by the critics, and had professional PR helping them along. However, despite their initial plans to get onto Steam, Steam had yet to accept them at the time of that posting. Yet even without Steam's help, they managed 771 sales - more than Fuel Overdose managed despite having access to a larger distribution platform. Unlike Fuel Overdose, I think we can say that what we have here is foundationally a very solid game.

Yet it only managed 771 sales. Why? The developers are unambiguous about this: They failed to get on Steam, or any other major distribution platform. Steam was no act of desperation, but rather an integral part of their plan all along, and when it failed to materialize, their plan naturally fell with it. Yet even then they are not without hope - they are continuing efforts to get on Steam (and I'll Greenlight 'em after this post - they seem to have made an interesting production), and have made further efforts to get onto other distribution platforms despite the apparent stigma of earlier games they produced for the iOS, which has typecast them. If they fall through entirely before they can find a distributor (and the tone of their post doesn't seem to suggest that they're in imminent danger of this), or if they get onto Steam and then flop horribly, then something may indeed be proven. For now, though, all that is proven is what was proven above - Kickstarting is not an ironclad guarantee. Not only that, but the link heavily suggests that Steam and other such distribution platforms remains the great hope and most vital factor in the success of small indie niche games.

So have we any conclusions to draw from the links provided? In essence, two: Kickstarter doesn't guarantee success, and Steam is important to indie or niche success. Not only do these points not contradict the argument I have made, they support them. Certainly we can see that Kickstarting IS a risk, but nothing we've seen here suggests that a Kickstarted wargame cannot become a viable non-Matrix competitor.

Now, what of these developers you speak of that you're currently dealing with? I certainly hope you're not asking me to provide detailed business plans based on a paragraph's worth of information, of which the only information about the actual devs or games that I have is that "They're not doing well and they tried to self-publish." The greatest business mogul in the world could hardly offer much in the way of good advice without a penchant for pithy, generalized turns of phrase and a great deal of luck. Did they try at Kickstarter? Did they attempt to invest their own money? What subjects are they covering? What angle are they attempting? How far along are they? Who have they sought support from? Without I know all of this and more, how can I possibly say anything of worth?

But of course, it's hardly likely that you're asking me for actual advice, and are simply trying to demonstrate that self-publishing carries risks. Well, and so it does - I've not sought to argue that. You might be trying to say that self-publishing is so risky that it isn't worthwhile to try it at all, but to that I answer this: Do you choose to publish EVERY game offered to you, and does EVERY game so offered and published bring back enough money to keep the devs producing more games? I'd be surprised were that so! If it isn't, then we can see that even publishing with Matrix Games is a risk, and no sure bet. Given that both crowdsourcing and Matrix carries their own risks, then (though I grant that crowdsourcing has greater risks), if a developer truly believes that he has an idea good enough to stand on its own, and if he truly believes that he can gain a good enough return on investment by distributing through Steam instead of sticking to Matrix's older policies to justify the risk, why should he not crowdsource? And if this developer puts up a good product, why should we not fund him?

(in reply to JDM)
Post #: 506
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 11:31:37 PM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline
I saw that, was just saying.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 507
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/26/2013 11:48:19 PM   
smudge56

 

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
Status: offline
Well it's sitting in my shopping basket. Just have to make that final click ... damn the boss has awoken

(in reply to 2ndACR)
Post #: 508
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/27/2013 12:00:01 AM   
JDM

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline
Well Tomn what I can say is that if you are serious about your writing career, and want to get out of your medical job we are always looking for good fiction writers for our game manuals, trouble is if we drop our prices to far we might not be able to afford you!!

(in reply to Tomn)
Post #: 509
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/27/2013 12:00:51 AM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline
DO IT! Man up! But be very, very quite.....shhhhhh
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

Well it's sitting in my shopping basket. Just have to make that final click ... damn the boss has awoken



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"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

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