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RE: German Uboat guns

 
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RE: German Uboat guns - 1/3/2015 9:43:31 AM   
pjcoia

 

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A very minor annoyance: Australian classes "38 Perth" and "41 Brisbane" seem to be the only Australian classes missing the class component of their pennant, in this case "D".

(in reply to RyanCrierie)
Post #: 421
RE: German Uboat guns - 1/3/2015 3:21:43 PM   
Broncepulido

 

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Thanks for your very interesting info and site, RyanCrierie !!! For years using (and citing as source) your site, mainly for Harpoon HCE/HUCE platforms (and probably in some little academic paper in the near future). Very useful data to demostrate bisonic jet fighters (and others) at maximum military power usually are not supersonic capable.

< Message edited by Broncepulido -- 1/3/2015 9:48:38 PM >

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Post #: 422
RE: German Uboat guns - 1/5/2015 2:13:00 AM   
hellfish6


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They USS Grayback and USS Growler SSGs (#46, #47, #48 and #50 in the DB) have 60-ton diesel fuel bunkers. Looking at the Tang-class SS boats that they're based on, they all have 60-ton bunkers too. This seems really small, and their in-game endurance is pretty low. I can't find any info on the actual size of the bunkers, but comparing it to GUPPY I and II boats, they seem pretty small. Just checking to make sure these are accurate.

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Post #: 423
RE: German Uboat guns - 1/5/2015 3:08:56 PM   
Broncepulido

 

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Grayback and Growler are, as per Conway's 1947-1995, more based on the Darter design, evolved and improved from Tang.
Grayback and Growler have roughly a 30% bigger displacement than Darter.
Darter surface range is stated as 13500 nm at 10 knots in "US Submarines from 1945" (Tang 11500@10), page 242, Norman Friedman, US Naval Institute 1994.

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Post #: 424
RE: German Uboat guns - 1/5/2015 9:16:07 PM   
RyanCrierie


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According to Norman Friedman's US Submarines Through 1945; the Gato, Balao and Tench classes had the following Diesel fuel capacities:

Gato:
175 long tons (normal)
324.25 long tons (maximum)

Balao
175.94 long tons (normal)
300.91 long tons (maximum)

Tench
193.87 long tons (normal)
361.46 long tons (maximum)

TUNNY (Gato) and BARBERO (Balao) had their two Regulus I missiles stowed in a huge pressure proof deck cylinder container originally made for the PERCH submersible troop carrier submarine project; so they'd have the same rough fuel characteristics as their WWII Fleet Boat versions.

GRAYBACK/GROWLER were conversions of already under construction submarines via by cutting them in half on the slip and inserting a new section containing the missile hangar. I'll contact the INTREPID air-sea-space museum (they have one of the remaining conversions) to find out what the fuel loading of the boat was.



< Message edited by RyanCrierie -- 1/5/2015 10:16:54 PM >


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RE: German Uboat guns - 1/6/2015 3:19:39 PM   
RyanCrierie


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Per the INTREPID museum, GROWLER held approximately 90,000 gallons of diesel when her bunkers were full.

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Post #: 426
RE: German Uboat guns - 1/7/2015 3:35:27 PM   
.Sirius


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Hi guys thanks for the fuel infomation on the Submarines you mentioned Ill update as required thanks again

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Post #: 427
RE: German Uboat guns - 1/7/2015 4:37:53 PM   
RyanCrierie


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I assume the maximum numbers for the WWII fleet boats were through filling ballast tanks or water tanks with diesel. I don't know if the usn continued that practice after ww2.

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Post #: 428
RE: German Uboat guns - 1/7/2015 5:12:49 PM   
.Sirius


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Hi Ryan noted gonna go for standard amount of fuel for this
quote:

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

I assume the maximum numbers for the WWII fleet boats were through filling ballast tanks or water tanks with diesel. I don't know if the usn continued that practice after ww2.



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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 429
RE: German Uboat guns - 1/8/2015 12:44:03 AM   
RyanCrierie


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Just did the calculations for GROWLER's fuel bunkers: 90,000 gallons of diesel at 7.49 lb/gallon is about 300.9375 long tons.

I also found some more technical terms on the fuel bunkers -- the term is either

"Fuel Ballast Tanks" (WWII)
http://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/chap4.htm

which gives the fuel capacity for USS Perch (SS-313) a Balao class submarine as:

Normal fuel oil tank group:
1. NFOT No. 1 11,401 gallons
2. NFOT No. 2 13,122 gallons
3. NFOT No. 6 15,201 gallons
4. NFOT No. 7 10,054 gallons
5. Collecting tank 2,993 gallons
6. Expansion tank 2,993 gallons

Clean fuel oil tank group:
1. CFOT No. 1 611 gallons
2. CFOT No. 2 618 gallons

Fuel Ballast Tanks
1. Fuel ballast tanks Nos. 3A and 3B 19,196 gallons
2. Fuel ballast tanks Nos. 4A and 4B 24,089 gallons
3. Fuel ballast tanks Nos. 5A and 5B 19,458 gallons

--------------

or

"Compensated fuel ballast tanks" (Modern).
http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/lawsguidance/cwa/vessel/unds/upload/2007_07_10_oceans_regulatory_unds_TDDdocuments_appAcompensated.pdf

quote:

The Navy is the only branch of the Armed Forces whose vessels utilize compensated fuel
ballast systems. Compensated fuel ballast systems are used only on CG 47 Class cruisers; DD
963 Class, DDG 993 Class, and DDG 51 Class destroyers; and all non-conventional submarine
classes


So it does look like the USN continued use of fuel ballast tanks post-war.

The idea is that as the ship or submarine leaves port; they run exclusively off the fuel ballast tanks; to empty them first (and deal with any possible water contamination of fuel by having it at the beginning of the voyage); in order to have them full of sea water when in the combat zone (or patrol zone).

< Message edited by RyanCrierie -- 1/8/2015 1:49:35 AM >


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RE: German Uboat guns - 1/8/2015 2:13:08 AM   
e2204588

 

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SC-1 Seahawk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_SC_Seahawk

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Post #: 431
RE: German Uboat guns - 1/12/2015 11:45:38 PM   
Primarchx


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US HH-3 Jolly Green Giant ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-61R

Soviet Big Bar B Radar ... https://books.google.com/books?id=HoxycYhoKZkC&pg=PA279&lpg=PA279&dq=%22big+bar+b%22+radar&source=bl&ots=9nC3XhaFbL&sig=yVyGzPxTP-jIRdC3UkAaSrLCjI0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Imq0VIq6JcmgNr3BgpgL&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22big%20bar%20b%22%20radar&f=false

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SR-71 w/4 SRAM or 4 B57 freefall bombs - 1/16/2015 4:16:24 PM   
KenPrescott

 

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Lockheed proposed a strike-capable variant of the SR-71 that could carry four SRAMs and lob them five hundred NM downrange and about two hundred NM cross-range. It could've dropped four B57s as an alternative loadout. It never came to fruition, but what if it had?

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RE: SR-71 w/4 SRAM or 4 B57 freefall bombs - 1/19/2015 9:15:46 PM   
.Sirius


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Noted
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenPrescott

Lockheed proposed a strike-capable variant of the SR-71 that could carry four SRAMs and lob them five hundred NM downrange and about two hundred NM cross-range. It could've dropped four B57s as an alternative loadout. It never came to fruition, but what if it had?



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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 434
RE: German Uboat guns - 1/19/2015 9:16:08 PM   
.Sirius


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Noted
quote:

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

US HH-3 Jolly Green Giant ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-61R

Soviet Big Bar B Radar ... https://books.google.com/books?id=HoxycYhoKZkC&pg=PA279&lpg=PA279&dq=%22big+bar+b%22+radar&source=bl&ots=9nC3XhaFbL&sig=yVyGzPxTP-jIRdC3UkAaSrLCjI0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Imq0VIq6JcmgNr3BgpgL&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22big%20bar%20b%22%20radar&f=false




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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 435
RE: CWDB 1946-1979 with certain WW2 Platform Additions - 1/25/2015 9:38:22 PM   
PN79

 

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Hello,
this is my request for Czechoslovak AAA and SAMs in 1960s:


1) heavy AAA

AAA Bty (85mm KS-12 x 6) -- Czechoslovakia [-1992] --- NEW UNIT based on # 1635 - AAA Bty (85mm KS-12 x 4)
differences from # 1635:
SENZORS / EW
1x Fire Can [SON-9] --- radar squad
1x Generic Optical Sight --- squad with optical sight working for whole battery (for all guns)
1x Mk1 Eyeball
1x Generic Binoculars --- visual search squad
MOUNTS / STORES / WEAPONS
6x 85mm M1944 --- Czechoslovakia used later variant of KS-12
1x Vehicle (Fire Can [SON-9])
1x 30mm M53/59 Praga --- one squad for close defense (czechoslovak designation: 30mm PLDvK vz. 53/59), actually its predecessor - towed version 30mm M53 (30mm PLDvK vz. 53) would be more suitable but effect is same
// 1x Binoculars (visual) --- I do not know if this has to be here or not

NOTE: 85mm KS-12 (M1944 and in Czechoslovakia also known as 85mm PLK vz. 44S) were originally deployed in rings to protect important cities in State Air Defense but later were transferred to Army which used them to early 1980s. Usually there were six guns in batteries especially later in Army organization.

AAA Bty (130mm KS-30 x 8) -- Czechoslovakia [-1992], 1x bty --- MODIFIED UNIT # 1430 - AAA Bty (130mm KS-30 x 4, Fire Wheel FCR)
differences from original:
MOUNTS / STORES / WEAPONS
8x 130mm KS-30
1x Vehicle (Fire Wheel [SON-30])
1x 30mm M53/59 Praga
// 1x Binoculars (visual) --- I do not know if this has to be here or not

NOTE: Czechoslovakia used just this one 130mm battery with eight guns. After State Air Defense got enough SAMs the battery was transferred to Army which used it to the end of 1960s/early 1970s.


2) SAMs

SAM Bn (SA-2a Guideline [SA-75 Dvina] -- Czechoslovakia [-1992], 1959, 1x bn --- NEW UNIT based on # 708 - SAM Bn (SA-2a Guideline [S-75 Dvina]; note - correct native name is "SA-75" (S-75 is for later Desna - SA-2c)
differences from # 708:
SENZORS / EW
Fan Song A [RSNA-75]
Knife Rest B [P-10]
1x Mk1 Eyeball --- to represent ability to see of two 30mm M53/59 Praga
MOUNTS / STORES / WEAPONS
Mounts
6x SA-2a Guideline Single Rail
1x Vehicle (Fan Song A [SNR-75])
1x Vehicle (Knife Rest B [P-10]) --- NEW UNIT - not in a game as "mount"
2x 30mm M53/59 Praga --- two squads for close defense
Magazines
SA-2a Guideline Battalion --- Stores: 6x SA-2a Guideline [SA-75 Dvina, 1D / V-750] (max 12) --- Czechoslovak SA-2 battalions had only 12 missiles stored, so if 6 are on the rails there can be only another 6 in battalion storage.

NOTE: Czechoslovakia obtained one battery of original SA-2a with 1D missiles. This battery was originally placed near Prague but it was transferred to Bratislava during 1962 as the original unit got new SA-2b (SA-75M).

SAM Bn (SA-2b Guideline [SA-75M Dvina] -- Czechoslovakia [-1992], 1960, 15x bn --- MODIFIED UNIT # 755 - SAM Bn (SA-2b Guideline [S-75 Dvina]; note - correct native name is "SA-75M"
differences from original:
SENZORS / EW
Fan Song B [SNR-75]
Spoon Rest A [P-12]
1x Mk1 Eyeball --- to represent ability to see of two 30mm M53/59 Praga
MOUNTS / STORES / WEAPONS
Mounts
6x SA-2b Guideline Single Rail
1x Vehicle (Fan Song B [SNR-75])
1x Vehicle (Spoon Rest A [P-12])
2x 30mm M53/59 Praga --- two squads for close defense
Magazines
SA-2b Guideline Battalion --- Stores: 6x SA-2b Guideline [SA-75M Dvina, 11D / V-750V] (max 12) --- Czechoslovak SA-2 battalions had only 12 missiles stored, so if 6 are on the rails there can be only another 6 in battalion storage.

NOTE: The first three batteries of SA-2b were acquired in 1960 together with 1D missiles, newer 11D were imported just one year later and become main missile of czechoslovak Dvina (SA-2a,SA-2b). Czechoslovak SA-2b served to the end of 1980s/early 1990s.


If further information are necessary, please let me know.

Regards,
Pavel Novak


< Message edited by PN79 -- 1/25/2015 10:46:10 PM >

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RE: CWDB 1946-1979 with certain WW2 Platform Additions - 1/26/2015 4:07:48 AM   
MR_BURNS2


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#284 - Lancaster B.1

Minor, They were in service with the Navy/Aeronavale, not Air Force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Avro_Lancaster_operators
http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_postwar-france.htm

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RE: CWDB 1946-1979 with certain WW2 Platform Additions - 1/26/2015 7:34:18 AM   
Broncepulido

 

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More details about the very interesting French ASW Lancaster WU B.VII (in French), 22 built:
http://www.ffaa.net/aircraft/lancaster/caracteristiques.htm
In short:
- Mk54 depth charges.
- 4000 Kg payload.
- APLAR and T1945 sonobuoys.
- ARR-3 sonobuoy tactical processor.
- APS-15 surface search radar.
- 2x7.7mm MG in front turret.
- 4x12.7mm MG in tail turret.

< Message edited by Broncepulido -- 1/26/2015 8:38:38 AM >

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Post #: 438
RE: CWDB 1946-1979 with certain WW2 Platform Additions - 1/26/2015 7:53:31 AM   
Broncepulido

 

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Perhaps Egyptian Lancaster, Stirling and Halifax, but probably never employed in operations:
http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_postwar-egypt.htm

Suez Crisis 1956:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_256.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_257.shtml

Halifax in Egypt:
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/b/560/198/0

Stirling in Egypt:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_251.shtml

An interesting report about the Hastings (employed in the 1956 campaing):
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/13/1186016/-Handley-Page-Hastings-coal-cod-and-the-Cold-War#

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Post #: 439
RE: CWDB 1946-1979 with certain WW2 Platform Additions - 1/29/2015 3:45:21 PM   
.Sirius


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All the Lancaster Stuff noted and will update

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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 440
RE: CWDB 1946-1979 with certain WW2 Platform Additions - 2/9/2015 4:34:25 AM   
MR_BURNS2


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#58 - Etendard IVP

Recon aircraft, yet no recon loadout.

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Post #: 441
RE: CWDB 1946-1979 with certain WW2 Platform Additions - 2/9/2015 7:21:15 AM   
.Sirius


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Noted will update
quote:

ORIGINAL: MR_BURNS2

#58 - Etendard IVP

Recon aircraft, yet no recon loadout.



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Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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YF-12A/SR-71 1.07 RC 2 - 2/19/2015 2:12:20 AM   
Midcon113


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Hi Guys,

Just did a check on the YF-12s and SR-71s in the latest CWDB, and it appears the SR-71 has the right range but just does the normal 400 knots at 80,000+ feet, while the YF-12 gets up to speed (or at least tries to) but burns up all it's fuel in just a hundred miles or so. Not sure if this is a database error, or just the game needing unique code for Blackbird-class aircraft. Any chance of getting this fixed? If nothing else, increasing the YF-12s fuel load may give it time to get to a patrol station and spend a reasonable amount of time there?

Thanks!

Mark

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Post #: 443
RE: YF-12A/SR-71 1.07 RC 2 - 2/19/2015 7:58:48 AM   
.Sirius


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Thanks and noted
quote:

ORIGINAL: Midcon113

Hi Guys,

Just did a check on the YF-12s and SR-71s in the latest CWDB, and it appears the SR-71 has the right range but just does the normal 400 knots at 80,000+ feet, while the YF-12 gets up to speed (or at least tries to) but burns up all it's fuel in just a hundred miles or so. Not sure if this is a database error, or just the game needing unique code for Blackbird-class aircraft. Any chance of getting this fixed? If nothing else, increasing the YF-12s fuel load may give it time to get to a patrol station and spend a reasonable amount of time there?

Thanks!

Mark



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Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
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Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 444
RE: YF-12A/SR-71 1.07 RC 2 - 2/19/2015 11:53:14 AM   
Coiler12

 

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Small problem I've noticed now that the OODA values are visible, involving the cancelled British warships in the CWDB. Obviously, since they're cancelled and hypothetical, this should be taken with a grain of salt, but they look out of place when compared to their historical counterparts.

#1913 D ?? [Type 43]
-OODA Range 60-24 seconds.

The Type 43 was to be an advanced AA destroyer. While perhaps not better, it should seemingly be at least as effective as the predecessor Type 42 (OODA Range 20-8 seconds).

#1501 F 92 Type 17
-OODA Range 60-24 seconds.

Smaller and less directly important than the huge gap in the T-43, but should probably be at the level of the Leander (OODA Range 40-16 seconds).

Obviously given that the ships weren't actually built and that the factors behind exact OODA loop length are extremely complex means this involves a degree of arbitrariness, but they still seemed jarring, especially the Type 43/42 difference.

(in reply to .Sirius)
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RE: YF-12A/SR-71 1.07 RC 2 - 2/20/2015 3:45:40 PM   
.Sirius


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Noted will amend[image][/image]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Coiler12

Small problem I've noticed now that the OODA values are visible, involving the cancelled British warships in the CWDB. Obviously, since they're cancelled and hypothetical, this should be taken with a grain of salt, but they look out of place when compared to their historical counterparts.

#1913 D ?? [Type 43]
-OODA Range 60-24 seconds.

The Type 43 was to be an advanced AA destroyer. While perhaps not better, it should seemingly be at least as effective as the predecessor Type 42 (OODA Range 20-8 seconds).

#1501 F 92 Type 17
-OODA Range 60-24 seconds.

Smaller and less directly important than the huge gap in the T-43, but should probably be at the level of the Leander (OODA Range 40-16 seconds).

Obviously given that the ships weren't actually built and that the factors behind exact OODA loop length are extremely complex means this involves a degree of arbitrariness, but they still seemed jarring, especially the Type 43/42 difference.



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Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
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Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 446
RE: YF-12A/SR-71 1.07 RC 2 - 2/20/2015 4:47:22 PM   
hellfish6


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Paul,

Any interest in having the information for the Landing Craft-type gunboats/mortar boats? They were mostly used in WWII, but some did see service through Vietnam (and maybe longer in other navies besides the US)? I have pretty good info on most variations.

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RE: YF-12A/SR-71 1.07 RC 2 - 2/20/2015 6:56:21 PM   
.Sirius


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Hi if you have them Ill add them not a problem :)
quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfish6

Paul,

Any interest in having the information for the Landing Craft-type gunboats/mortar boats? They were mostly used in WWII, but some did see service through Vietnam (and maybe longer in other navies besides the US)? I have pretty good info on most variations.



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Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 448
RE: CWDB 1946-1979 with certain WW2 Platform Additions - 3/6/2015 1:45:53 AM   
MaxManus81

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaxManus81

Great update, but found a few things that I would like to report.

Leahy class cruiser, the 1967-72 (#781) got the RIM-2F Terrier, but reverts to RIM-2E with the 1972-76 (#76) version. Same goes for the Decatur class destroyer. The 1972-75 version (#768) is ment to have RIM-24 Tartar (described as such in the DB viewer), but armed with RIM-66 Standard. It reverts to RIM-24 on the 1975-82 version (#769).

Also all RIM-2D Terrier missiles in US ship magazines are the conventional version(#669), despite loadouts of the magazines (2-4 missiles per ship) make me believe they should be the nuclear tipped version(#1088). Same goes for the De Zeven Provincien class when armed with RIM-2 and Andrea Doria class when armed with the RIM-2E.


Going to repost this, as it persists in ver 1.07.

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Post #: 449
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 3/21/2015 6:35:17 PM   
PN79

 

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Hello,
can you please add late 1940s to early 1960s british Type 13 radar height finder as sensor? It was used by the United Kingdom and West Germany and usually accompanied british Type 80 long range radar. Some data:

Maximum Range: 100 to 150 miles
Frequency: 3 GHz (10 cm)
Radar Horizontal Beam width: 4 to 7.5 (sources disagree)
Radar Vertical Beamw width: 1 to 1.5 (sources disagree)
Radar Peak Power: 500 Kw
Radar Pulse Width: 0.6 to 1.9
Radar PRF: 250 to 500

nodded vertically from -1° elevation to +20° elevation
6 cycles per minute

Sources:
http://www.radarpages.co.uk/mob/rotor/type13.htm
http://www.ventnorradar.co.uk/Type1314.htm
http://martinshough.com/aerialphenomena/Lakenheath/BTNeale2.htm
http://martinshough.com/aerialphenomena/Lakenheath/radarspecs.htm
http://ahistoryofrafsaxavord.blogspot.cz/2009/12/radar-equipment-at-top-site.html
http://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/karte809.en.html
http://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?http&&&www.usarmygermany.com/USAFE%20TACS%201A.htm

Thanks in advance.




< Message edited by PN79 -- 3/21/2015 7:37:04 PM >

(in reply to MaxManus81)
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