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RE: Patch news (3.5) - 12/30/2014 7:04:12 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		The complete lack of responses from either Ralph or Matrix about not only the patch, but the updated version of TOAW which was mentioned, is very disheartening...is it really that difficult to tap out a few lines with an update?

The developers for many of Matrix's games are extremely active and responsive on the forum, its a shame that this game is not the same.

(in reply to BigDuke66)
Post #: 91
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 12/30/2014 10:19:53 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		Ralph's last post remains 8/16/14. His last log in was 12/22/14. Now you know as much as I do.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 92
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 12/31/2014 12:30:17 AM   
pz501


Posts: 180
Joined: 10/1/2003
From: Southern Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Reluctantly I've got to agree that it just doesn't look like TOAW is ever going to get any type of update.

When we've got people using the latest beta saying that they think it's ready for at least a public beta trial, and we find that the developer logs in on occasion still, but doesn't bother to post, I have to start thinking that this game is probably finished. Comes a time I guess when you just can't maintain that positive outlook any more. But, after all, it is only a game.

Too bad, since it's still after all of these years the best available package for the price...maybe if the sun rises in the west someday, we'll get that big update, but for now, I'll just have to think it's very unlikely, and let those hopes rest.

There are worse situations here at Matrix. All anybody has to do is take a look at the "Eagle Day to Bombing The Reich" forum regarding patches and updates.


(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 93
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 12/31/2014 5:31:12 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Well that Eagle is dead for sure, but when you see that work has been done and not just a bit but a lot work to come this far with the beta patch it is simply not understandably why this isn't made public unless there are game stoppers.

I just feel that behind the curtain there might be some business crap going on that prevents this from moving on.
The beta patch for WitP:AE went also very far and now holds there as it seems no official patch is done anymore for that game.

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Post #: 94
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 12/31/2014 6:06:03 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		The WitP betas are still being released, about one a month. But it is highly unlikely an 'official' patch for AE will ever be released. I personally have used the betas for AE as they come out have had no issues with any of them. And they have made the game much, much better.

Compare that to here and you see why people are getting fed up with TOAW III beta nonsense. I agree there must be some legal issues/disagreements that are going on behind the scenes.

Just like many others here, I have long lost the ability to care about TOAW anymore. There are just too many other good games out where the feedback and responses are a LOT better, like War in the West/East. I mean a major patch for WitE was just released this month as an example. For a game 4 years old no less.

With examples like these plus other Devs/companies at other studio's sites being responsive, there is no excuse for no one to comment here officially. Even if it is to say there is nothing to say at this time. But I am not even expecting that anymore. All I expect is crickets and silence for the foreseeable future. Sad really when you think about it.

(in reply to BigDuke66)
Post #: 95
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 12/31/2014 8:54:30 AM   
major.pain

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 3/27/2012
Status: offline 		I am also holding fire on making a purchase simply because of the lack of information regarding when and if a patch is being released and if the next TOAW4 is indeed going to see the light of day at all.
As things stand with no clear picture and more of a collage of out of date information i will be holding off especially in light of what has happened with Command Ops and Lock & Load.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 96
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 12/31/2014 6:20:56 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline






Attachment (1)

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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

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Post #: 97
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 12/31/2014 7:15:18 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline 		I've been waiting on this patch before I dive back into this game but looks like I might be waiting a bit longer. Shame.

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Post #: 98
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 12/31/2014 11:13:14 PM   
fogger

 

Posts: 1446
Joined: 9/17/2006
Status: offline 		Let’s do a review of what we know.

1. There is something about the code for TOAW that means only Ralph can do the update. (I am not a computer geek so this may not be correct)
Question. Is this point correct?
2. On 9 Nov 2013 Ralph posted that the game is “being actively developed again”. This means that up to that point the game was on hold.
Question. Why had it been on hold for so long?
3. On 13 June 2014 Erik posts “more news soon. Work is ongoing”. Reading between the lines. There is a major problem and it is being worked upon.
Question. What is/was the major problem? Has it been overcome?
4. On 27 Nov 2014 Bob Cross posted “Ralph worked on it steady till 16 Aug. That was his last post. He still logs in regularly…”
Question. Why did Ralph suddenly stop working on the update? Does Ralph still work for Matrix?
5. From a number of other posts in various places on this forum from what has been said and not said I have the feeling that (Mr XXXXXXX) is working on TOAW 4.
Any NDA will stop anybody who is working on TOAW 4 from coming out and saying so, so look at who does not reply / comment on this point.


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Post #: 99
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/1/2015 4:22:17 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		1. It's spaghetti code.
2. Ralph had life issues. We all do from time to time. Maybe he does again.
3. There is no major problem.
4. As far as I know Ralph never did work for Matrix. It's my understanding he is a volunteer.
5. I tend to be a fairly positive person. At this time I'd say I'm positive no one is working on anything. Look at the other forums where work is being done. Tons of info and communications. Here, nothing. This is not the Manhattan Project and the game is relatively a dinosaur. There's no reason to be secretive. Conclusion, nothing is being done.
6. Play the old scenarios with the old game and look elsewhere to spend your money. John Tiller Software and Battlefront have some very nice stuff.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 1/1/2015 5:24:55 AM >

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to fogger)
Post #: 100
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/1/2015 4:24:59 AM   
Magpius


Posts: 1632
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		+1
It seems that if you are not part of some inner circle of people, everyone else is just hung out to dry.
Has momentum on this patch ceased?
Could we be given some official comment on what gives?
or a definitive "work has ceased".

< Message edited by Agent S -- 1/1/2015 5:27:19 AM >

_____________________________


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Post #: 101
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/1/2015 5:42:13 AM   
fogger

 

Posts: 1446
Joined: 9/17/2006
Status: offline 		Jack (Lobster) you are not on my short list, but you did not say anything about TOAW 4. So you now have me thinking, have you signed a NDA?

_____________________________

Thought for the day:
If you feel like doing some work, sit down and wait....... The feeling does go away.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 102
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/1/2015 9:15:35 AM   
JMass


Posts: 2364
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I found this news on the Lock 'n Load Publishing Forum:
"Here are the first early screenshots of Tank On Tank West Front. Ralph Trickey is leading the charge on this game. The map graphics are just a rough a sample. The nice new maps should be available in a next set of Screenshots we put out."
I do not known if the Ralph Trickey named here is the same or another programmer.

http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/tank-on-tank-screenshots.1022/


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(in reply to fogger)
Post #: 103
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/1/2015 9:33:19 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		Interesting catch JMass. I serously doubt that there is more than one wargame-programmer named Ralph Trickey.

I couldn't see the screenshots in that game clearly (you have to register and log in to see screenshots, WTF?), but it looks like pretty lite fare, so it would be a shame if Ralph is concentrating on that rather than TOAW, but I guess that's his business. It would be nice, however, if TOAW could somehow be handed off to someone that would do something with it. For instance, it is kind of amazing (and commendable) to see what the guys are doing with the old Tiller Campaign Series.

(in reply to JMass)
Post #: 104
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/1/2015 9:44:06 AM   
JMass


Posts: 2364
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm
I couldn't see the screenshots in that game clearly (you have to register and log in to see screenshots, WTF?)


Yes, you have to register but you can search on google images: "ralph trickey tank on tank", it should find some images from Facebook.

_____________________________

"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern!"Generaloberst Heinz Wilhelm Guderian

My boardgames collection: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/collection/user/JMass?own=1&subtype=boardgame&ff=1

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 105
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/1/2015 11:08:41 AM   
fogger

 

Posts: 1446
Joined: 9/17/2006
Status: offline 		Ralph also has his own software company called "Trickeysoft"

_____________________________

Thought for the day:
If you feel like doing some work, sit down and wait....... The feeling does go away.

(in reply to JMass)
Post #: 106
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/1/2015 1:31:28 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fogger

Jack (Lobster) you are not on my short list, but you did not say anything about TOAW 4. So you now have me thinking, have you signed a NDA?


TOAW 4

There, happy?

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to fogger)
Post #: 107
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/1/2015 2:13:23 PM   
tcarusil

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 5/1/2011
From: Indianapolis, IN
Status: offline 		With all of the doom and gloom regarding Toaw's future, what other game(s), here or elsewhere, come closest to replicating the Toaw experience. Lobster has mentioned John Tiller and Battlefront. Any others?

TomC

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 108
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/1/2015 2:58:45 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

I couldn't see the screenshots in that game clearly


If you click the link for the poster [admin David Heath, the principal owner], it will give you a pop up, and from there click on the 'media' link which will take you to a page where you can view all the screenshots in full resolution.

I have signed the NDA but I don't violate it by saying that there is nothing in the Development Forum that would shed any light on situation. Nobody from Matrix visits there either.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 109
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/1/2015 6:34:16 PM   
Jeff Norton


Posts: 2054
Joined: 8/8/2000
From: MD, USA (You're not cleared for specifics...)
Status: offline 		The 'David Heath' from Matrix? If so, that is cool

I'm not negative - just inquiring on the status - there has been little\next to nada input from MG on this. Even a Simple "we hear you, and will have more news on the status soon..."

Even Ralph's FB status is a tad cold. I've left a few posts, with no replies.

Life does get in the way, but even a 'just a brief drive-by to say 'hi'' would be appreciated.

And, no, I have ZERO input this round for the update...

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Veritas Vos Liberabit
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(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 110
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/14/2015 7:58:18 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		I'm happy to report that Ralph resurfaced today on the Development Board with a new update.

(in reply to Jeff Norton)
Post #: 111
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/14/2015 8:25:58 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Hell yea!

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Post #: 112
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/14/2015 10:38:03 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

I'm happy to report that Ralph resurfaced today on the Development Board with a new update.


That's good news Bob. Thanks for posting that. My first reaction was to think, "And...?".

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 113
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 1/14/2015 10:41:35 PM   
r6kunz


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Thanks for the update. And Ralph (for your eyes only),- welcome back, looking forward to your input!
cheers

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(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 114
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 2/2/2015 1:24:20 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
That's good news Bob. Thanks for posting that. My first reaction was to think, "And...?".


+1

Don't make us get out the Ouija Board again.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 115
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 2/21/2015 2:07:23 AM   
Meyer1

 

Posts: 899
Joined: 2/9/2010
Status: offline 		Two new posts in the blog...

http://operationalwarfare.com/

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 116
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 2/21/2015 2:16:42 AM   
r6kunz


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Wow, some news!
I do not have a clue as to what Ralph is talking about, it is great to see his interest and ideas!

(in reply to Meyer1)
Post #: 117
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 2/21/2015 10:56:31 AM   
josant

 

Posts: 538
Joined: 3/14/2007
From: Spain
Status: offline 		to see, if this finally gets going and we have a new patch soon.

< Message edited by josant -- 2/21/2015 11:58:26 AM >

(in reply to r6kunz)
Post #: 118
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 2/21/2015 5:03:31 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		Well, from what I understand the code for TOAW is a bit of a mess. I guess Norm was not so much a programmer as a game designer and maybe had not heard of organized code.

So, given that it's a mess and someone who had nothing to do with the coding is working on it I can imagine it must be somewhat frustrating. Still, having some kind of communication at all is better than none and I appreciate it as I'm sure everyone else does. For instance, "I can't look at this crap anymore. I have to walk away for a bit". I'm perfectly fine with that.

As for getting a patch soon. Probably not if he's found other botched or out dated programming. TOAW is very old.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 2/21/2015 6:05:41 PM >

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to josant)
Post #: 119
RE: Patch news (3.5) - 2/21/2015 5:50:52 PM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Well, from what I understand the code for TOAW is a bit of a mess. I guess Norm was not so much a programmer as a game designer and maybe had not heard of organized code.

So, given that it's a mess and someone who had nothing to do with the coding is working on it I can imagine it must be somewhat frustrating. Still, having some kind of communication at all is better than none and I appreciate it as I'm sure everyone else does. For instance, "I can't look at this crap anymore. I have to walk away for a bit". I'm perfectly fine with that.

As for getting a patch soon. Probably not if he's found other botched or out dated programming. TOAW is very old.

Don't misunderstand me, TOAW was very well written for it's time. I've looked at other programs written around that timeframe and they are absolute messes in comparison. Norm did a fantastic job given the constraints. It was written before C++ so there is a huge reliance on global variables. There is some separation between the logic and display but some parts are better than others. I'm pretty sure it was also written originally as a DOS program and the conversion to Windows works, but it used to have lots of loops polling the input which was the only way to do it in DOS but not the best way in Windows and impractical for mobile. The interface code was written assuming an 800x600 display and everything was coded using pixel coordinates and an 8x8 font. While it wasn't OO, it did do some sensible things like passing x, y as the first two parameters when looking at terrain and other sensible things like that.

I've got the advantages of both using C++ and OO and having used several windowing systems (Delphi, C#, HTML, and a few others) so I have some ideas on what the programming interface looks like. So I'm taking the time to do an almost complete rewrite of the graphics system to isolate the windows pieces in a couple of source files and writing an abstraction layer above it.


(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 120
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