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RE: Disaster! - 4/10/2016 5:01:59 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Okay, I am officially not having fun anymore, but at least I am taking those beasties with me. Runway starts taking damage, and planes are destroyed on the ground.




Runway 60+ percent damaged. Airport services 100; Port 50+.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/10/2016 6:35:10 PM >

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Post #: 7141
RE: Disaster! - 4/10/2016 5:09:48 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		In the afternoon I get the match up I was looking for.

Most of my CAP is at the 20K to 25K altitude. As you can prior, they did well against the bombers that came in the morning.

None of my planes look good against the Spitfire down low; so I bounced him and did very well according to the replay even though my pilots and planes are heavily fatigued and I am flying from a damaged runway.




According to tracker he lost 5. This is good, since these pilots are insanely good, and were ripping my low layered cap defense to pieces -- I think I never shot down more than 2 on a sweep prior.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/10/2016 6:34:09 PM >

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Post #: 7142
RE: Disaster! - 4/10/2016 5:13:09 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Why attack with these guys...




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Post #: 7143
RE: Disaster! - 4/10/2016 5:18:31 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Half decent day in the air. Won't slow the Allies down any.




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Post #: 7144
RE: Disaster! - 4/10/2016 5:22:21 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		OkiShoto falls. Couldn't stand up to the massed naval and aerial attacks. But they did well!

I think Allies ran into a minefield this turn too, I heard sinking noises.






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Post #: 7145
RE: Disaster! - 4/10/2016 5:31:22 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Its a positive VP day!

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 7146
RE: Disaster! - 4/10/2016 5:55:22 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Why attack with these guys...




Maybe he has a pool of them built up??

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 7147
RE: Disaster! - 4/10/2016 7:26:20 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Or he messed up the settings?

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 7148
RE: Disaster! - 4/11/2016 1:28:43 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Here is the first killer sweep at Kobe, and my pilots did great! You can see my much higher CAP.

Morning Air attack on Kobe , at 108,59

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 70 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 12
A6M5c Zero x 58
J2M2 Jack x 5
J2M3 Jack x 37
N1K1-J George x 5
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 96
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 2

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 137 This was ugly & I was scared!

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zero: 3 destroyed
J2M2 Jack: 1 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 5 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
29 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 18000 feet
31 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 18000 feet
23 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 18000 feet
12 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 18000 feet
15 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 18000 feet
11 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 18000 feet

CAP engaged:
S-901 Hikotai with N1K1-J George (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters to 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes
S-304 Hikotai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 12 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 26000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
S-316 Hikotai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 10 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
302 Ku S-1 with J2M2 Jack (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
332 Ku S-1 Det with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 5 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 1000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
S-602 Hikotai with A6M5c Zero (13 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Raid is overhead
S-313 Hikotai with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 4000 , scrambling fighters to 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
S-317 Hikotai with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 8 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
Hosho-1 with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 5 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 11 minutes
Unryu-1 with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 8 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 31000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IV Oscar (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 20 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 26000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
47th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 23000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
50th Sentai with Ki-43-IV Oscar (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 19 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 26000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
78th Sentai with Ki-43-IV Oscar (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 13 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 26000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
71st I.F.Chutai with Ki-43-IV Oscar (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 9 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 24000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 7149
RE: Disaster! - 4/11/2016 1:46:26 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		A Jack squadron involved at Kobe....hard not to love the SR2 Fighter. Early arrival, conventional engine, lots of cannon.

You can see that I have to jump around airfields to avoid mass sweeps.






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Post #: 7150
RE: Disaster! - 4/11/2016 3:33:31 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I don't understand the island invasions, really. I guess it gets him a few more airfields, but so what? Does he need them? I don't think so.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 7151
RE: Disaster! - 4/11/2016 5:23:30 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I don't understand the island invasions, really. I guess it gets him a few more airfields, but so what? Does he need them? I don't think so.

Don't know, but I was thinking it gives you fighters bases really near to the IJ bases closest in. Maybe to cover invasions? Totally guessing.

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Post #: 7152
RE: Disaster! - 4/11/2016 7:12:44 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I don't understand the island invasions, really. I guess it gets him a few more airfields, but so what? Does he need them? I don't think so.

Because Lowpe cannot rail in troops!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 7153
RE: Disaster! - 4/11/2016 2:36:58 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I don't understand the island invasions, really. I guess it gets him a few more airfields, but so what? Does he need them? I don't think so.

Because Lowpe cannot rail in troops!


Allies have some recon on some of the western Japanese Islands now. Some of the more attractive ones. I will bolster their defense a little with troops that were further out (i.e. Marianas and Bonins).

In general they have about a regiment and some support each - at least the nicer ones.



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Post #: 7154
RE: Disaster! - 4/11/2016 3:22:16 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Aug 28, 1944

Sweeps all over Honshu, followed by heavy bombing raids primarily aimed at runways, but this B29 raid hit the Light Industry. Not pleasant.

TF Kongo and company are at Oita, which seemed to miss the sweeps and strikes so far.

Best coordinated and largest B29 raid of the war so far. 80 of them.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/11/2016 3:23:30 PM >

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Post #: 7155
RE: Disaster! - 4/11/2016 3:28:50 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		You still haven't seen the really bad ones with double the load either!! It gets worse!

I ran that H to H from Dec 44 to Dec 45 testing the Allied ability to bomb the SI, and even with good night/day CAP they ended up with 42k strategic points alone in one year!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 7156
RE: Disaster! - 4/11/2016 3:38:18 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		All of the AA and ART destroyed in Vietnam are being reformed back it Tokyo. Now I have to distribute it across both halves of the split Honhsu.

Allies are really making a tactical mistake of not severing Honshu in half.






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Post #: 7157
RE: Disaster! - 4/11/2016 3:40:12 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

You still haven't seen the really bad ones with double the load either!! It gets worse!

I ran that H to H from Dec 44 to Dec 45 testing the Allied ability to bomb the SI, and even with good night/day CAP they ended up with 42k strategic points alone in one year!


Well, no 45 for me here. I agree that is a fight you cannot win, but you can slow it down and make it painful.

I have given up 51K in 6 months.

I budgeted 40,000 VP in strategic bombing for the game. A little low.


< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/11/2016 3:45:02 PM >

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Post #: 7158
RE: Disaster! - 4/11/2016 3:43:42 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		We shoot down quite a few searching planes.

Allies hit a transport runway, there go some more precious air transports.






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Post #: 7159
RE: Disaster! - 4/12/2016 1:39:51 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Aug 29, 1944

Starts well, damaging three Yankee subs in diverse parts of the Empire. We can only hope air patrols will finish them off.

Reloading depth charges is becoming harder.





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Post #: 7160
RE: Disaster! - 4/12/2016 1:44:39 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		The Kongo moves from Oita to Fukuoka and the Allies sweep Fukuoka heavily.

Spitfires, Corsairs, Jugs, Wildcat, Hellcats, oh my!

Our planes are for the most part second string, but my oh my, we do well with a layered approach all the way to the mid 20Ks. I am heartened that we do really well against the Spitfire sweeps, so I have figured how to counter them.

But the Allies keep coming, and coming, and then the 4E beasties come. A long, long day. The Kongo awaits the coming deathstar strike, but not this day..

The Allies are ruthless, trashing runways hither and thither, and for the first time I recall, bombing troops in the open with B29s. Ouch!!!!






What a hodge podge of junky planes. Oh, for a 1000 J2M5 or Frank A's.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/12/2016 1:46:41 AM >

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Post #: 7161
RE: Disaster! - 4/12/2016 1:47:16 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		When the dust clears, the Japanese Air Forces have pulled off another win, but we are losing the war badly as our Fighter production is less than 10 planes a day. Probably.






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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/12/2016 1:48:38 AM >

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Post #: 7162
RE: Disaster! - 4/12/2016 1:51:00 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Looking bleak my friends, bleak.




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Post #: 7163
RE: Disaster! - 4/12/2016 2:01:24 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		You are up against a mighty eagle, but the eastern S***hawk still has talons! Great to see the fight you are putting up! Hang in there!

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 4/12/2016 2:06:11 AM >

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 7164
RE: Disaster! - 4/12/2016 2:59:38 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

You are up against a mighty eagle, but the eastern S***hawk still has talons! Great to see the fight you are putting up! Hang in there!


We are hanging on, if just by our fingernails.

As near as I can figure, the Allies took OkiShoto with an aim as using it as a battleship reloading port, and look to pound these three likely invasion beaches. With Honshu almost split, taking the two western ones would open up a lot of clear terrain and seal off Kobe and Osaka.

So, I am trying to move everything I can here to respond.

It will be very tough.

Almost all runways in western Honshu are destroyed.

Alternatively, the Allies are simply trying to surround Honshu with bases and the Western Japanese Islands are next, or even Tsushima.

Barges are transporting a SNLF unit to Tsushima and a Regiment to Honshu. Air transports are flying back troops from Okinawa and the Bonins.





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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/12/2016 3:01:34 PM >

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Post #: 7165
RE: Disaster! - 4/12/2016 4:01:36 PM   
Rafid

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 1/24/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Six more 25mm AA guns per side and the AA goes up 132 points! The AA rating doesn't count in radars, does it? They should affect accuracy, not volume.


There is no relationship that I know of between the AA rating and effectiveness. Some Japanese ships get in the 2000, but it is because of adding those horrible AA rockets that can fire once and never hit.

No relationship either to radar as far as I know.



quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The ratings lie!

Japanese shipboard AA is anemic. It's just the 25mm for the overwhelming majority of IJN ships, with the occasional 12.7cm, 10cm or 8cm gun on the bigger ships that can fire higher than 4000ft.

The 25mm's generally never get a chance to fire. Torpedo and dive bombers on release and low level attacks. That's it.

The Allies, on the other hand, get an abundance of 5 inch guns and the wondrous 40mm Bofors. If Japan had just copied the design of that weapon and plastered it all over the sides of IJN ships...

From my own testing and with no guarantee for correctness, the AA rating is calculated as the sum of [NUMBER OF DEVICE] x [EFFECT OF DEVICE] / 2 – obviously with only AA capable devices considered (no 46cm guns here). This means that the following have no influence on AA rating of ships:

a) Device accuracy
b) Device ceiling
c) In-code late war allied bonuses modelling radar fire control and VT-fuses.

All of these effects inflate the AA ratings of Japanese ships compared to Allied ships. As MM already pointed out, b) is particularly bad, since the majority of the AA rating of many Japanese ships (eg 451 out of 567 for the Akitsuki 7/44 above) come from the 25mms which have a horrible ceiling and will fire very rarely (interestingly in my own – latest beta - scenario 1 they have an effect of 18, while they seem to have an effect of 22 here). An effect of 22 would rate them higher than a Bofor (effect 20).

Strangely in my scenario 1 here the AA rockets (device 1684) have an effect rating of 0 and the formula above works, if I just ignore them. So they could not inflate any AA ratings, but will they work?



< Message edited by Rafid -- 4/12/2016 4:06:51 PM >

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 7166
RE: Disaster! - 4/12/2016 4:13:50 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafid

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Six more 25mm AA guns per side and the AA goes up 132 points! The AA rating doesn't count in radars, does it? They should affect accuracy, not volume.


There is no relationship that I know of between the AA rating and effectiveness. Some Japanese ships get in the 2000, but it is because of adding those horrible AA rockets that can fire once and never hit.

No relationship either to radar as far as I know.



quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The ratings lie!

Japanese shipboard AA is anemic. It's just the 25mm for the overwhelming majority of IJN ships, with the occasional 12.7cm, 10cm or 8cm gun on the bigger ships that can fire higher than 4000ft.

The 25mm's generally never get a chance to fire. Torpedo and dive bombers on release and low level attacks. That's it.

The Allies, on the other hand, get an abundance of 5 inch guns and the wondrous 40mm Bofors. If Japan had just copied the design of that weapon and plastered it all over the sides of IJN ships...

From my own testing and with no guarantee for correctness, the AA rating is calculated as the sum of [NUMBER OF DEVICE] x [EFFECT OF DEVICE] / 2 – obviously with only AA capable devices considered (no 46cm guns here). This means that the following have no influence on AA rating of ships:

a) Device accuracy
b) Device ceiling
c) In-code late war allied bonuses modelling radar fire control and VT-fuses.

All of these effects inflate the AA ratings of Japanese ships compared to Allied ships. As MM already pointed out, b) is particularly bad, since the majority of the AA rating of many Japanese ships (eg 451 out of 567 for the Akitsuki 7/44 above) come from the 25mms which have a horrible ceiling and will fire very rarely (interestingly in my own – latest beta - scenario 1 they have an effect of 18, while they seem to have an effect of 22 here). An effect of 22 would rate them higher than a Bofor (effect 20).

Strangely in my scenario 1 here the AA rockets (device 1684) have an effect rating of 0 and the formula above works, if I just ignore them. So they could not inflate any AA ratings, but will they work?



Rafid - I take no issue with your calculation. Just in case you are not aware, in the past the developers have confirmed that the AA rating has nothing whatsoever to do with combat. The AA rating is simply a composite number for display to humans. As such it can be handy, but you point out the danger. If a ship has lots of short range weapons it can display a high AA rating, but longer range guns are needed to provide better protection. You obviously know that (from reading your post), I just wanted to mention the bit about the ship AA rating not being used in the combat calculations. Same if true of a base's flak rating, BTW.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Rafid)
Post #: 7167
RE: Disaster! - 4/12/2016 4:33:48 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks Rafid & W.

I think Obvert had some ships with the AA rockets and they did nothing.

Talking about AA, I airlifted my two type 5 AA guns to Oki Shoto. Where they were subsequently destroyed. Hopefully they did some damage first.

Now, the parent group is replacing them. That is interesting, since the production date for these bad little boys is 9/45. What gives, I thought they were gone for good?




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Post #: 7168
RE: Disaster! - 4/12/2016 5:37:22 PM   
Skygge


Posts: 199
Joined: 11/5/2004
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

Okay, I am officially not having fun anymore, but at least I am taking those beasties with me


Every allied plane downed is a victory. Every allied ship sunk is a victory to celebrate.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 7169
RE: Disaster! - 4/12/2016 5:37:48 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Must be retrieving those 40mms from sunken Allied ships!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 7170
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