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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Burma Bungle!

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/17/2014 5:28:15 PM

setloz

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I guess you're leaving a sacrificial unit there so that he has to actually DA to get the base instead of it reverting to allies by itself?

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/17/2014 6:47:31 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: setloz

I guess you're leaving a sacrificial unit there so that he has to actually DA to get the base instead of it reverting to allies by itself?

Some paratroopers. Just a splinter. They drew the short straw.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/17/2014 8:44:12 PM

Lokasenna

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I bet he's going north because of supply. He may not be comfortable shipping in a large quantity of supply through Rangoon, right? As I recall, he's lost a lot of transports recently.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/17/2014 9:30:34 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I bet he's going north because of supply. He may not be comfortable shipping in a large quantity of supply through Rangoon, right? As I recall, he's lost a lot of transports recently.

Maybe, I know all those planes he flies out of Prome and all those units must eat a huge amount of supplies. Plus the cost of replacing planes albeit he does it at a lower rate than me.

No matter, northern Burma will be abandoned to the safer jungle line. Rangoon is solidly held, as is Moulmein. Artillery and AA is being distributed along the front lines and also the second line, and some even is heading back to Raheng. I figure I will have Magwe production for 5 more days.

I am a little worried about holding onto Lashio and the roads thereabout, but mostly it is RTA units. Hopefully they will look impressive in the jungle and the narrow roads an inhospitable place for the Allies to advance in.

I am a little surprised that he hasn't dropped paratroops into the abandoned bases...perhaps he doesn't know the extent of my pull back yet.

He certainly missed a chance to nail my troops in the open...he won't have that again until the race to Udon in this theater.

It is kind of funny how the turn worked out, I absolutely dreaded watching the replay figuring on the worst. Perception and misdirection are potent allies.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/18/2014 10:57:59 AM

Lowpe

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June 7th, 1943

No night bombing.

Allies bomb the Magwe push in Burma, and Kusaie. Japanese fighters have the day off...I notice his Corsair sweep is down to 17 planes and the bombers are about half strength from a week ago.

In Burma the Magwe Push makes it back across the river, heavily disrupted, but really no worse for wear and they should be able to make the jungle and relative safety from Allied bombers shortly.

Even the sacrificial 20th Independent Artillery should make it into Magwe, as the the Commonwealth motorized units are still south west of Magwe. Of course, they might get bombed into oblivion tomorrow too.

No real sub actions which is good since a lot of fuel and oil are on the high seas.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/18/2014 11:33:38 AM

Lowpe

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For the life of me I can't figure out how to defend the central plains around Magwe, even with the river crossing penalty so everything will fall back to the jungle lines...most have been moving that way for several days.

I was thinking of breaking the full divisions down into 1/3s. This is the Japanese divisions only and have 2 forward and 1 back. This way they will dig in past forts level 2 I hope. The RTA Divisions (full) seem to have no problem digging in past 2 as I have one at Rangoon at level 5 forts (they only have 4 engineers -- how do they dig so well?).

But this turn an IJA ID got to level 3 forts at Rangoon...they have been there as long as the RTA division mentioned above, but there are a whole lot more engineers there now too so that must help.

So scratch that plan, and instead I will make sure each defensive strong point on the roads has a construction engineer unit to help in digging in. I wasn't too crazy about breaking up the full division anyhow. I have plenty of construction units that were previously patching damaged runways.

Not 100% sure of what to do with the Tank Regiments. Fire Brigage perhaps? I am move some to Pegu for now, others might leave the theater all together....

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/18/2014 12:05:28 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

For the life of me I can't figure out how to defend the central plains around Magwe,

I haven't seen a successful defense there either, so don't look at me for ideas. After I lose the Akyab -> Myitkyima line, I have to fall back to Moulmein -> Chiang Mai which I hate. If I lose Moulmein, everything north of there is at risk. So for me, Chiang Mai actually becomes more of a Rahaeng -> Vientianne line.

I hate Burma/Malaysia.

Give me half an excuse and I am bailing for Vinh and then Long San. Long San I can hold for quite a while and I have good retreat paths. For the allies to take it, they have to land behind me ... that gives me a good shot at their fleet. Tavoy is hard to defend. I can't get enough air assets in place fast enough without the allies seeing it coming. And then all of those AirSupport units are now tied up there and its going to take weeks/if not months to extract them. Cuts down on my mobility, which is the key to my defense.

It really boils down to the size of the perimeter and the speed with which I can react. Burma is too far, my reactions are too slow. I need my perimeter back at Long San to be able to mount an effective defense in the West. To the south, it is the PI.

Your biggest issue, obviously, is that this is all happening 12 months too soon. You have to fight out here at your perimeters because you need to hold the DEI for another 12 months ... a very tough goal. You're going to have to roll the die here on a few things, and the odds aren't really in your favor. So, all the typical defense stategies are not applicable. You can't bail, force preservation isn't paramount, getting oil from the DEI is. Every month of you owning Palembang is a big deal.

Watching this one for all those reasons ... this isn't the normal recycled AAR ... you're breaking some new ground here.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 10/18/2014 1:06:54 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/18/2014 1:38:12 PM

Lowpe

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Hold the oil for 12 months...yep a tough order. I fear for Medan and Sumatra next.

No great plans for this turn other than the normal stuff...hiding the air force or concentrating it.

Moving to take up solid defensive positions in the jungle below and east of Magwe plains. Making sure some Artillery/AA/ENG are in the front line Jungle positions. I will put some in the fall back positions along roads -- will give the impression of a defense in depth.

Moving some AF bases back to Raheng...too many now that I am giving up the central plains.

Tanks to Pegu and Rangoon.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/18/2014 2:43:07 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/18/2014 6:56:34 PM

Lowpe

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June 8th, 1943

No night bombing.

No sub action.

Allies bomb the Magwe Push troops now heading for the jungle. Most will make the jungle tomorrow.

Destroying two more Chinese Corp near Changsha. Whack-a-mole.

It looks like the 20t Independent Mtn Gun unit will not quite make good their escape west of Magwe. Everything else will.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/19/2014 12:17:57 AM

Lowpe

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June 9th, 1943

No night bombing.

No AM day bombing, except for one Helen Sentai in China, but then in the afternoon, the Allies turn their bomber might on Moulmein...

Zeroes and Tojo and Tonies...rise to the challenge. They perish against Corsairs and Lightnings but do terrific damage among the Allied bomber fleet. Heavy flak accounts for more...

Bloody day...

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/19/2014 12:29:33 AM

Lowpe

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Unbelievably, the Commonwealth awaits more troops and doesn't attack or bombard the the 20th Mtn Gun and they will cross the river today and enter Magwe. How cool is that?

Moulmein is damaged to the tune of 29% (the runway). I suspect night bombing or just sweeps on the morrow.

That he is bombing Moulmein also might mean another cargo convoy headed to Rangoon. Opportunity knocking perhaps?

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/19/2014 11:38:46 AM

Lowpe

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I am sticking around and will contest the air over Moulmein again...probably a mistake, but we shall see.

Oscar IV is in production, the first 3 rolled off the production lines.

The Mitchell gets a newer variant the G version. Not sure it is much better than the D1 version other than Americans get more of them each month. In fact I would say it is a definite step down too bad the D1 doesn't go away. That plane scares me.

I think the Americans have really failed to use their B25D1 well...they have 8 forward firing 50 cals and are a great anti-ship platform with range. Don't tell him!

However they stay in production to 8/44 at 10 a month so he has plenty of time to figure it out. Still, wiping out 3 months of production of them feels great, and over an airfield no less.

Also, I think he has failed to use those beautiful British Liberators with super long legs well too. They scare me too. They scare my industry too.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/19/2014 1:03:57 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/19/2014 7:18:22 PM

Lowpe

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June 10th, 1943

Night bombing of Moulmein. Big surprise, right? The KAI Dinah's don't fly and I lose 1 A6M5c on the ground, but Allies lose two bombers to flak/ops.

I will take it.

Corsairs sweep Moulmein during the day but no other Allied bombing across the Empire.

Moulmein repairs the runway and is fully operational again.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/19/2014 7:23:01 PM

Lowpe

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Here is one reason why the plane losses were as good as the post post above:

A rare sweep. I left this squadron on Commanders decision for location of sweep, and it took him a few days to figure out where to go, but they actually get the dive bonus and flame several planes. Pretty good, considering the pilots were fresh out of schools with relatively low experience.

I need to do more of this, and I like letting the local commanders pick targets. I think they are less likely to fly into heavy opposition (given their aggression level). I hope.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/19/2014 7:25:03 PM

Lowpe

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So much for the good news for the turn...

A fast transport force heads into Kusaie to remove some forces no longer needed there and they blunder into a minefield.

Thankfully, almost no damage.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/19/2014 7:27:29 PM

Lowpe

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And now for the truly despicable:

Akagi. Despite close to 600 planes screening for submarines, and many escorts and escort task forces a lousy sub gets thru.

Nasty damage...but on the positive side Akagi will most likely see 1944 since she won't be at sea.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/20/2014 2:15:09 AM

topeverest

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Gonna happen more as time goes on, especially if the allies use batches of boats in fleet roles.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

And now for the truly despicable:

Akagi. Despite close to 600 planes screening for submarines, and many escorts and escort task forces a lousy sub gets thru.

Nasty damage...but on the positive side Akagi will most likely see 1944 since she won't be at sea.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/20/2014 9:32:10 PM

Lowpe

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June 11th, 1943

Two night bombing raids on Moulmein. All quiet after that, but he Commonwealth is moving on Magwe.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/22/2014 11:07:29 AM

Lowpe

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June 12, 1943

No night bombing.

Lightning sweep Pegu: 10 Japanese versus 4 Lightnings.

Magwe is attacked by an armored column....and falls into Commonwealth hands. Bye, bye 286 oil production.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/23/2014 4:47:47 PM

Lowpe

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Been sick, and hectic times at work and family. Longer turn-arounds on my part and fewer updates to the aar. Sorry. Hope to be back to semi normal by the weekend.

I am finalizing positions in central Burma, to hold the jungle line. Preparing for another naval clash at Rangoon. The first Oscar IVs are in service at Bangkok.

KB is going thru mass upgrades. Free reign for the Allies for the time being.

I am hoping for a few quiet days, since I am unable to give enough time to the game each turn. Just doing the bare minimum, hope it doesn't come back to bite me!

In China, the capitol is besieged. Kweiyang attacks to start shortly. 6000 AV for the IJA versus 15 Chinese Units in rough terrain with decent forts. Need to take this base and move north and west and cut the mtn roads.

I really am not interested in the bloodbath at the capitol, except for maybe using my artillery to knock the Chinese down. That will probably change...but maybe it is too late there anyhow...

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/23/2014 5:29:21 PM

Spidery

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quote:

In China, the capitol is besieged. Kweiyang attacks to start shortly. 6000 AV for the IJA versus 15 Chinese Units in rough terrain with decent forts. Need to take this base and move north and west and cut the mtn roads.

I really am not interested in the bloodbath at the capitol, except for maybe using my artillery to knock the Chinese down. That will probably change...but maybe it is too late there anyhow...

If you have the supply to keep up bombardments then you can probably milk this for more VP than you would get by attacking. Once the enemy runs out of supply they will start suffering and add in the bombardments and it makes a steady supply of VP.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/23/2014 5:29:59 PM

Spidery

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quote:

Been sick,

Hope it is nothing too serious.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/23/2014 5:38:28 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

quote:

Been sick,

Hope it is nothing too serious.

Just the common cold, thank goodness. Went all last winter without getting sick, not so far this year.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/23/2014 9:05:28 PM

Lowpe

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Plane notes:

Both Sam J an Ki202 have over 50 repaired factories, but the planes I watch most closely now are the night fighters, especially the Army NF. I am doing both the Nick d and the Dinah, but need the Nick sooner. I am pretty sure I will add at least one and maybe two factories going after the Nick KAId model.

Even an additional 1 month of acceleration might delay oil wells from being destroyed.

Irving NF will start production July 1. All two squadrons. The Endo Detachment is still operational, but at only 2 planes not really good for much.

There are so few night fighters here in mid 43 available to me, they probably will all have to go to protecting the oil/industry at risk leaving plenty of work for the KAI Dinah and AA at advanced airbases.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/23/2014 10:24:09 PM

Lowpe

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June 13th, 1943

Night bombing by Allies of Pegu...no damage.

Lost an Iboat to negligence. It was spotted and attacked by an ASW fleet last turn, and I simply forgot to move the sub of it's narrow patrol.

Kweiyang bombardment starts; cleanup of forces near Changsha continues, and a force of 3 CA and 3 DD (light of destroyers I know) will raid into Rangoon tonight and hopefully all make it to Moulmein with it 300 fighters. They will be tangling with a screen of 4 ships CA/CL/DD and a supply convoy. More ships on the way....

More Nick d r&d factory started from idle production plants.

I top 3 million supply in HI and in a few more days 5 million overall.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/23/2014 11:06:39 PM

Lowpe

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I flashed a strong surface fleet in the Marshalls, hopefully it will give the Allies some pause while the KB is upgrading. Lots of American shipping at Tarawa.

Near Burma, the Tone dodges a torpedo from a submarine, but the Allies know I have some surface ships in the area.

Oscar IVs up and flying...this plane will be the Army workhorse, along with Tojo IIc in a lesser role. I think I am sorry now that I decided to r&d the tony -- it doesn't seem to add much more than Oscar in my particular game version. Perhaps the Tony will be a better Kamikaze? A little more durable.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 3:40:15 AM

PaxMondo

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You've got PDU ON, correct? If so, more of your fighter groups should be upgradable to NF's ... it will cost you PP's to do it, but there should be a fair number available.

I'm not a big fan of the Irving as a NF, in fact I don't like any of the IJN NF's ... none have armor IIRC, and most are slow. I've had decent luck with the Myrt and the Denko, but I really don't like either that much.

IJA - its all about the Randy. Its the best you get all around. All the other are just stop-gaps for me.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 10:27:53 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

You've got PDU ON, correct? If so, more of your fighter groups should be upgradable to NF's ... it will cost you PP's to do it, but there should be a fair number available.

I'm not a big fan of the Irving as a NF, in fact I don't like any of the IJN NF's ... none have armor IIRC, and most are slow. I've had decent luck with the Myrt and the Denko, but I really don't like either that much.

IJA - its all about the Randy. Its the best you get all around. All the other are just stop-gaps for me.

You have to use them all if you want to begin hurting the B-29s from day one of their introduction. It's not ideal, but this is Japan we're talking about. No airframe is ideal!!

The J1N1-Sa is actually among the best of the NF available before the very late Denko and Randy. Those are too late to make a real difference so you're stuck trying to outproduce the number shot down of the other mediocre to crap NF you'll be able to use.

Not many actual fighter groups upgrade to NF even with PDU-on. The FB groups do but you need the marginal Nick Id for that and can then use the Dinah KAI for some later as well, which may be slightly better, before the eventual Randy Ic. I made a list in my AAR from the Jocke game somewhere there, and there are recon groups, FP groups, F and FB groups and some other weird lines if I remember correctly. It's important to find as many as possible.

Doesn't the Frances NF have armor? Just going from memory here, but I know that one surprised me for it's staying power with at the least its decent durability.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 10:39:40 AM

Lowpe

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June 14th, 1943

Frustrating day. IJN naval forces don't go into Rangoon, and one of the groups is spotted, the other not.

Heavy, well coordinated, night bombing of Moulmein destroys 20 fighters on the ground and 1 Dinah in the air. Weather was light cloud. I believe the Allies flew every bomber they had at Moulmein. Followup splinter attacks did no damage and despite 19 runway hits the engineers repair the field and facilities fully.

Did I ever mention I really hate night bombing before?

Base was not over crowded, and will most likely get visited by another massive night bombing run tonight and if I plan on sending ships into Rangoon then I will lose another 20 fighters on the ground. Sigh. Maybe there will be bad weather.

I get another Chinese corp to surrender and the first bombardment at Kweiyang goes well destroying 3 squads and disabling 20 or so. Chinese have one monsters corp (700 av) two medium strength (400) and then pretty much junk after that, but there are three HQs there too.

Don't play sick...I left two units in railroad mode, and now they will most likely get trashed by Allied tanks in Burma. We will see if he attacks or waits for the rest of his troops to arrive.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/24/2014 11:42:36 AM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/24/2014 11:17:00 AM

Lowpe

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Obvert, Pax, Night Fighters:

The list of all convertible squadrons to night fighters has been listed in this AAR and also in Obverts and other AARs (Koniu, FKs). I will try to draw up a link.

There are, going from memory, 22 squadrons that can go NF. One squadron, a biggie, can only go Dinah. Perhaps once it is Dinah then the other Army NFs unlock, I don't know.

I really needed night fighters 6 months ago. Massive Allied night bombing of airfields makes any forward base very expensive to attempt to hold (see Moulmein in today's report). I guess there is an opportunity cost in that if the Allies are bombing the airfields at night, then they aren't doing other things.

I will have Irving next month, July 1. Yes, it isn't great, but it is much better than nothing. I have ramped up the Nick d model, but I haven't run the math on when I will get it. I am also researching the Dinah.

My primary late war night fighters are going to be Frances and Peggy. Frances, although slow, does really well in Downfall (armor and radar). I have no clue about how Peggy will do, big gun and armor and faster than Nick.

Although I didn't research it, the Myrt seems like a solid plane in Downfall testing. Fast, one engine, radar it performs very well.

The Zero gives you an SR1 night fighter, no armor or radar handicap it. Judy is a little faster, but has less guns, no armor, higher SR.

There is a post from Alfred,somewhere, that night fighters without radar are simply disrupting flyers which is disappointing since the only Army NF with radar is Randy (and the radar activates very late too -- a primary decision for me in choosing Peggy over Randy). The Navy has: 2nd Irving, Myrt, Frances, Denko. Hope I didn't forget any.

Speed seems an important decision in choosing a night fighter otherwise the bombers run past your fighters very quickly. However, that isn't all bad either: it allows your night fighters to be present in greater numbers for subsequent followup waves and there are always those.

I plan on trying to do well in the night bombing campaign, but lets face facts: Japan is simply hosed. Japan can only increase the cost of Allied night bombing, fight to keep everything at extended range, and when it comes to the HI protect the big three and you are doomed even there. Just part of playing Japan.

Every game is different with HR on night bombing...if I could do it over again, I would put more into Nick r&d to get those squadrons up and flying early to help protect the SRA.