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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Burma Bungle!

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/27/2014 10:34:25 PM

Lowpe

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I have turned off most naval air attacks in the Marshalls, to avoid flying into his CAP carriers. From relatively small bases I don't see how land based air can penetrate his main carriers. I did set some to night attack, not expecting any hits but it might scare him.

I suppose it is time for him to take something else in the Marshalls...or bombard. Since the KB is getting upgrades not much to stand in his way, although I did sortie about 10 subs at his carriers.

In the Bay of Bengal I am sub hunting for the Ramillies. The Aoba is continuing her run down the coast, next stop either Georgetown and merging with an AR.

Speaking of ARs, my original conversion of several ships to AR way back in the beginning of the game is about to happen. I could use them...

Pretty much back to hiding my air force or concentrating it. I am bombing Chungking's airfield looking to destroy the Chinese fighter presence there and eat up Chinese supply. Should take Kweiyang!

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/28/2014 11:28:45 AM

Lowpe

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June 19, 1943

Misc night bombing in Burma.

Sweeps of full size Corsair and Lightning groups return to Burma. Not contested.

American Carriers move north and raid Ponape. Zeroes and Nicks do well, but I unfortunately left a small troop transport there. Actually, they had so few troops to unload, I figured they would unload at night and be several hexes back to Truk. My bad, and I lose my last AMC and even worse a LSD.

This is really the first engagement for quite a few new American planes. Well next month, in less than 2 weeks, George will show up.

I am not sure how much I will use George on these islands however...

Kweiyang is mine in China. Eliminated another 100 Chinese combat squads.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/28/2014 12:58:24 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/28/2014 3:07:08 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

June 19, 1943

Misc night bombing in Burma.

Sweeps of full size Corsair and Lightning groups return to Burma. Not contested.

American Carriers move north and raid Ponape. Zeroes and Nicks do well, but I unfortunately left a small troop transport there. Actually, they had so few troops to unload, I figured they would unload at night and be several hexes back to Truk. My bad, and I lose my last AMC and even worse a LSD.

This is why I don't like mixing types in an amphibious TF. Are you familiar with the unload rates? If I am ever in a situation like this, I click into the units on the ships and see if they'll finish that turn.

LSD unloads at a large rate, I think 1200 per phase or maybe even higher.

AMC only unloads at 600 per phase.

xAP/xAK only unload at 250 per phase. The bonus for Japan makes everything unload at 600, IIRC.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/29/2014 1:22:14 AM

Lowpe

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In most likely a futile attempt, 20 Lilly IIb divebombers and 150 Zeroes will strike out of Kusaie at a range of 10. Lots of torpedo carrying search going on...

Other news, I converted two out of three Zero factories over to George...one of those factories was the original size 70 something Rufe factory I inherited. So it will be George and Zero for a long time now in the Navy.

Lets see what those carriers do this day in the Marshalls...

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/29/2014 10:41:18 AM

Lowpe

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March 20, 1943

Synch bug strikes and the Allies miss seeing all the action at Ponape last turn. Argh. I am putting together a cut and paste so he can at least read my combat reports.

No night bombing.

I set 6 Emilies to low level torpedo strike in Burma, they fly unfortunately at 3 destroyers near Rangoon, and there is enough CAP to foil their attack. I doubt they would have hit destroyers anyhow. I was hoping to nail Ramillies further north.

No strike in Marshalls, missed opportunity to nail some oilers. Interesting move to steam his carriers southwest....he has no surface groups with the two carrier task forces.

In China, the plucky 99th Chinese Corp refuses to die, and I am forcing the river crossing north west of Kweiyang, bombing the troops there who don't shoot at the bombers.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/29/2014 12:00:38 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/29/2014 10:11:08 PM

Lowpe

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Detection levels are low at Kusaie, so I have left the planes and strike package. Cross your fingers they don't get plastered by night bombing, don't really feel too good about this...big danger small reward, but if those carriers move over I think my Lillies could get thru.

Over at Moulmein, I put 250 fighters on escort for 50 Vals looking to take out some destroyers. If his CAP remains the same, from the aborted Emily attack they will easily get thru. Something might come down the coast too.

I had thought about sending the Tone and destroyers in, but if those are three fletchers, it would probably be a nasty engagement - I could even lose! I would rather use planes. I have sunk a couple of Fletchers now, maybe a half dozen, and normally it has taken torpedo hits to put them down after they have been hit and slowed by convention means. We will see what obsolete Vals can do hopefully.

Allied search of the bases along the Indochina coast is still poor, and nothing on Sumatra.

10 days until George and NF Irvings! So far the only oil at threat to bombing now is Medan in Sumatra and Chinese oil from Ledo. With only 1 squadron of Irv NF they can't be everywhere...and I fear it will be Jan 1 before the Nick KAId comes on stream to fill out the NF ranks and by then there will be a lot more oil at risk I bet.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/30/2014 12:06:26 AM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/30/2014 2:37:17 AM

topeverest

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You expect that much glory from George and Irving? I haven't seen that. How are you going to get that to happen?

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/30/2014 4:33:50 PM

Lowpe

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I think too much is made about how poor the Irv is. Not fast enough to keep up the B29, etc. Well, you know what? I am not worried about the B29; I am worried about the here and now.

I have been savaged by night bombing. At risk is every forward air field, and port, and about 300 each of oil, refineries, LI and some HI. If the Allies would focus on an early destruction of the Japanese economy it would be game over much earlier. 300 LI makes about 110,000 supplies a year.

The Irv gives me at least one squadron now to fight back with. In Sept I get a second. They will be far better than anything else I can field for a long time and I am very excited to get them in July 1943.

If, by the mere presence, Irv delays the systematic destruction of Japanese Economy then the Irv will be covered in Glory! And rightly so.

It isn�t about how many bombers the Irv shoots down, it is about delaying the destruction of the economy and giving me a few more tactical options that I didn�t have before. A wonderful plane that can't come early enough.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/30/2014 5:57:59 PM

Lowpe

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SR3 is the only drawback on the George (well, not being CV capable). The George is a substantial improvement over the Zero-- faster, higher altitude, more cannons.

George will be go to war in Burma first and foremost where I can use use rail lines and large airfields.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/30/2014 6:48:23 PM

DanSez

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You started out behind the 8-ball so optimal planning has to take the back seat to the needs of the day.

A very interesting AAR - thanks for keeping us up to date.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/30/2014 10:21:21 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I think too much is made about how poor the Irv is. Not fast enough to keep up the B29, etc. Well, you know what? I am not worried about the B29; I am worried about the here and now.

I have been savaged by night bombing. At risk is every forward air field, and port, and about 300 each of oil, refineries, LI and some HI. If the Allies would focus on an early destruction of the Japanese economy it would be game over much earlier. 300 LI makes about 110,000 supplies a year.

The Irv gives me at least one squadron now to fight back with. In Sept I get a second. They will be far better than anything else I can field for a long time and I am very excited to get them in July 1943.

If, by the mere presence, Irv delays the systematic destruction of Japanese Economy then the Irv will be covered in Glory! And rightly so.

It isn�t about how many bombers the Irv shoots down, it is about delaying the destruction of the economy and giving me a few more tactical options that I didn�t have before. A wonderful plane that can't come early enough.

Yep. It'll help a lot.

Also, it does catch up to B-29s. Not sure how, but it does. You'll lose a ton, so make a lot of them. The Sa version is noticeably better.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 12:50:16 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanSez

You started out behind the 8-ball so optimal planning has to take the back seat to the needs of the day.

A very interesting AAR - thanks for keeping us up to date.

I am glad you like it...I get as much fun from the AAR as I do the game. Well, almost.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 1:05:38 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Yep. It'll help a lot.

Also, it does catch up to B-29s. Not sure how, but it does. You'll lose a ton, so make a lot of them. The Sa version is noticeably better.

I think lots of JFBs' wish they had the Irving in July of 43 -- in time to slow the destruction of the SRA.

I have invested a lot of factories and supplies in getting the NF up and flying ASAP, plus given some decent thought to the end game pretty much based on your AAR. i plan on not making it easy for the Allies, but I realize I can't stop them, only delay and bleed them.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 10:30:50 AM

Lowpe

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March 21, 1943

Nasty 4E night bombing on Bangkok. I had some Nicks on CAP, 10percent setting, but they simply fly to fast and burn themselves out on the first wave. Planes destroyed on the runway.

Lashio also bombed at night.

Lots of sub action and three sub punished for no damage: one of them the nasty Trusty. Four solid hits, she was forced to surface where she got off one last torpedo attack (miss) before being sent right back down to the bottom.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 10:34:11 AM

Lowpe

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Sometimes things work out as planned:

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 10:36:13 AM

Lowpe

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Carriers in sight...really excellent target selection. The Lilly IIb can put a hurting on CVEs!

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/31/2014 1:44:06 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 10:45:35 AM

Encircled

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Banzai?

Its like watching it in real time!

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 10:51:51 AM

Lowpe

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Let down! Those are the only two planes to attack a carrier, the remainder focus on the....CA Indianapolis!

Yes, the Indianapolis.

Army pukes.

All miss: flak is quite nasty against Lilly IIb.

Oh well, the attack worked as planned, and it gave some exciting moments, and Kusaie is still open for business as there were no air attacks other than sweeps against it.

17 Zeroes lost, probably 10 to sweeps, and 17 Lilly IIb gone. But it was fun! Allied losses are 4 Hellcats, 2 Wildcats, 1 Martlet and a few gray hairs.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/31/2014 12:19:16 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 11:01:11 AM

Lowpe

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Pretty quiet elsewhere.

The Army bombs Chinese in China. The 99th Chinese Corp still refuses to surrender. Forcing the river northwest of Kweiyang.

Burma: 1000 tanks moves to clear the Burma Road.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 12:40:34 PM

Lowpe

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You might be thinking, Lowpe you are crazy! Why didn't you swamp those carriers with everything you have from multiple bases! And attacking with a plane that drops lousy 100kg spitballs! What are you thinking! I deserve a good thwacking at the JFB woodshed!

A couple of things. First: Multiple disjointed attacks probably wouldn't get thru the carrier CAP, and I would lose 200+ planes.

Second: The KB is going thru upgrades. Might have done one above if the KB was around.

Third: All of these island bases are subject to massive nightbombing, I expected to see it at Ponape for example. And once the planes are damaged on the runway they are pretty much gone. Why the Allies don't take advantage of this is beyond me.

Four, I kind of like what the Allies are doing now with their carriers. Not supporting an invasion (like). Sweeping air bases with their pilots (like), steaming around all creation (like). I guessed wrong with my sub placement....but it seems to me he is putting his carriers at risk for no real gain.

I am not looking for a decisive battle, but want to attrit his forces some and conserve mine.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/31/2014 1:41:32 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 1:05:27 PM

Encircled

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There is of course the idea that by sending only small amounts of what you have, he begins to wonder what you have or have not in the area.

If he thinks thats all you have, then he's liable to be a bit more free with his movements, and that can create opportunities for you.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 1:31:36 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

A couple of things. First: Multiple disjointed attacks probably wouldn't get thru the carrier CAP, and I would lose 200+ planes.

True, but one big attack just might.

This is from the last turn in my game with Loka.

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Portland Roads at 95,132

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 57
B5N2 Kate x 74
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 29

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 50
F4U-1 Corsair x 5
F6F-3 Hellcat x 45

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 27 destroyed, 9 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 7 destroyed by flak
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise
CV Wasp, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Hornet, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
BB Washington
CV Yorktown, Torpedo hits 1
BB Indiana

Aircraft Attacking:
30 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 1:31:58 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Banzai?

Its like watching it in real time!

I guess if there is a theme to this AAR, anytime there is something exciting I try to do a play by play and build suspense.

Glad you liked it, and the timing was good for the posts.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 1:34:30 PM

Lowpe

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M-M, yeah, you dog I read about that attack! Green envy is eating at me.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 2:03:38 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

M-M, yeah, you dog I read about that attack! Green envy is eating at me.

That's impossible, because I only ran the turn an hour ago! You're thinking of the CVE's I attacked, this one was on infintely more valuable fleet carriers.

It is said that God is always on the side of the big battalions. In AE, it seems that God is on the side of the big airstrikes.

If you'd 50 Lilys/Kates/Vals behind those Zeros, you'd almost certainly have gotten a similar result. My rule of thumb is quickly becoming "If you can't get 200 escorts and 150 strike planes in range, don't bother attacking".

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 6:06:09 PM

Lowpe

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M-M, why you are quite correct! I fear there will be lots of AFBs' gnashing their teeth!

Now I am purple with envy!

Wasp is very fragile...but don't let the Hornet get away. Banzai!

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/31/2014 7:07:34 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 10:38:32 PM

Lowpe

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Licking my chops, thinking about those beautiful Irving-S NFs rolling off the production factory floor in a little more than a week I got to preparing the only squadron that can upgrade to the Irv. You can see how un-gamey I am -- they are still size 9!

And then, there it is: those wonderful letters S R. Gemminny Crickets! Who figured out that great idea! I think I spotted this before and blocked it out to protect my sanity....anyhow back to rant mode.

This game is just stacked against Japan! Come on guys, give us a fighting chance!

Its like the designers don't want Japan to win. Cripes, were they going for historical accuracy or something equally as silly?

So, like any good JFB, I am going to transfer those Jakes to my only remaining CS (if she doesn't get torpedoed this week), resize the group to 20 (take that!) and then I think the transfer to a carrier, even a second rate float plane carrier, will un-restrict the squadron? At least that is what I recall. If not maybe they can offload at Medan in boxes and be manually upgraded there to Irvs.

Normally, I don't do things like this. But, darn it all...this is war!

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/31/2014 11:52:23 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 10:57:50 PM

Lowpe

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Converted two small factories to these Floats. I only have one factory of 30 Jakes, and they can't keep up, I do however have a Glen pool for the rest of the game, as well as Petes coming out my ears. In fact, Petes make up the 2nd largest pool of unused aircraft.

Jakes die to enemy CAP in amazing numbers. I would hate to be a IJN Pilot and get assigned to one. Maybe Norm can be better. At least Norm has long legs...maybe they should have changed the name to something with a little more charm...and female.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 10/31/2014 11:31:39 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

So, like any good JFB, I am going to transfer those Jakes to my only remaining CS (if she doesn't get torpedoed this week), resize the group to 20 (take that!) and then I think the transfer to a carrier, even a second rate float plane carrier, will un-restrict the squadron? At least that is what I recall. If not maybe they can offload at Medan in boxes and be manually upgraded there to Irvs.

I've became quite an expert at this.

Moving the squadron to a CS will cause it to change to the "Independent" command. Resize to 20, offload and upgrade to Irving.

If you really want to break the game, you can do it with pretty much any squadron using carrier aircraft or floatplanes. I've had a bunch of excess 24 sized floatplane squadrons training IJN pilots since the start of the war, as well as monster 81 and 72 sized units training fighter, dive bomber and torpedo bomber pilots.

The IJN pools look quite healthy as a result: the only shortage is in fresh replacement pilots to keep the program going!

RE: The Norm

I like the notion of using this plane on the IJN capital ships, where the extra range can be put to good use and the SR of 3 is less of an issue.

I'm still undecided about using it as a land-based search plane - the value of the Jake is that it can be up flying search day after day. I'll probably convert a few land-based squadrons for ASW duties or searching from bigger bases.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 11/1/2014 12:33:23 AM

Lowpe

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Planes have left Kusaie, I expect the Amis to detach a BB and bombard...moved other search planes around trying to avoid the expected heavy bomber response.

Planes have left their ambush from Moulmein...many bombers are going to target the Allied tanks heading into the jungle. I have had terrible results bombing Allied tanks, but maybe something will change with big numbers. Sweeps, Escorts, and LRCAP will protect the bombers.

The Irving will get its debut tonight fighting over Bangkok I suspect. Tracom pilots, one and all.

Dispatched the Djambi protective forces: AA, Eng, Naval Guard from the HI. Dispatched several ENG units to Bangkok they will head into Indochina to build up the air bases in the third line.

Subs hunting American carriers...maybe they will get lucky.

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