Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I agree with withdrawing all or most of the air power. I'd leave the P-40s; in the long run they don't matter and they can cause some losses as well as force more KB aircraft to fly for damage and fatigue. I'd pull the patrol planes and Bolos, etc.

On ships I disagree with a mass sortie. Whatever he has left that can shoot should stay. If they run the KB plinks them for no gain. If they stay in PH, never leaving the hex, they force landings to be escorted by at least cruisers, and that exposes them to the CD, which is impressive. Repairs are at least Truk-distant. That's useful if only in time gained, and some will sink. The ships at Pearl are by definition pre-war; the USN in the long run won't miss them. Besides, as above, they're toast if they run.

Adak is a nice idea, but without investment of LCUs he doesn't have to spare it can't hold in the first six months. Hauling submarine fuel there is also risky. Subs will need to operate from the WC unless something south can be established, maybe out of the Canal. There are many islands south of Christmas that would be less risky than Adak and far more supply-able. For what good Mk 10 fish do, which is not much.

PH's best hope is forts. Every level will cost him in troops, but especially precious supply that must be hauled at great fuel expense and xAK capacity he can't use to begin feeding his economy. Spending PPs to buy great leaders for PH is not a bad move either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I agree with withdrawing all or most of the air power. I'd leave the P-40s; in the long run they don't matter and they can cause some losses as well as force more KB aircraft to fly for damage and fatigue. I'd pull the patrol planes and Bolos, etc.

On ships I disagree with a mass sortie. Whatever he has left that can shoot should stay. If they run the KB plinks them for no gain. If they stay in PH, never leaving the hex, they force landings to be escorted by at least cruisers, and that exposes them to the CD, which is impressive. Repairs are at least Truk-distant. That's useful if only in time gained, and some will sink. The ships at Pearl are by definition pre-war; the USN in the long run won't miss them. Besides, as above, they're toast if they run.

Adak is a nice idea, but without investment of LCUs he doesn't have to spare it can't hold in the first six months. Hauling submarine fuel there is also risky. Subs will need to operate from the WC unless something south can be established, maybe out of the Canal. There are many islands south of Christmas that would be less risky than Adak and far more supply-able. For what good Mk 10 fish do, which is not much.

PH's best hope is forts. Every level will cost him in troops, but especially precious supply that must be hauled at great fuel expense and xAK capacity he can't use to begin feeding his economy. Spending PPs to buy great leaders for PH is not a bad move either.

I'm not assuming an ability to hold Adak in the first 6 months. I'm advocating the retaking of it over Pearl once the forces are available for some retaking.

while I agree that some combat ships may be of extended value kept in TF at Pearl it's the plethora of support shipping that needs to evac. They die out of hand if disbanded in the port when it falls and serve no useful purpose in TFs in the Pearl hex, except to clog up the works, which some might see as gamey, but is arguably what would happen in RL if they were all stuck in the vicinity when the port falls.

Combat TFs in the hex are only viable as long as minimal air cover remains. Once the P40s are vanquished the hex is untenable for any TFs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I don't like the idea of not fighting for Pearl. In fact, I don't like in general the Sir Robin strategy, but I do see the wisdom of it.

I had heard a Naval Historian from the War College talk about taking Pearl as the only viable strategy Japan should have pursued after Pearl Harbor. If they could take Pearl then there was a chance they could have negotiated a settlement to end the war.

But he thinks Army/Navy jealousy would have made taking Pearl impossible.

With the only political ramification here in the game AV; I am not sure what having Pearl does for Japan if you don't get AV. There are so many avenues to attack Japan, closing one avenue simply opens up others.

Don't worry, your time to kick the Japanese is coming.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I don't like the idea of not fighting for Pearl. In fact, I don't like in general the Sir Robin strategy, but I do see the wisdom of it.

I had heard a Naval Historian from the War College talk about taking Pearl as the only viable strategy Japan should have pursued after Pearl Harbor. If they could take Pearl then there was a chance they could have negotiated a settlement to end the war.

But he thinks Army/Navy jealousy would have made taking Pearl impossible.

With the only political ramification here in the game AV; I am not sure what having Pearl does for Japan if you don't get AV. There are so many avenues to attack Japan, closing one avenue simply opens up others.

Don't worry, your time to kick the Japanese is coming.

"Historians" like your guy make me ashamed I ever studied the subject. There is zero, zilch, nada chance the USA would have EVER negotiated with Japan after Dec. 7th. They could have landed in San Diego and there's no chance. None. Did I mention there was no chance? Housewives would have attacked IJA soldiers with butter knives before we would have negotiated.

Pearl should be fought for with everything available. But planes that can't fight and can disband should get out of Dodge. Everything else? To the ramparts!

quote:

TF 182 encounters mine field at Lahaina (182,108)

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Mine hits 1

quote:

TF 82 encounters mine field at Niihau (177,106)

Japanese Ships
DMS W-14
DMS W-13
xAK Anzan Maru #2, Mine hits 1, heavy damage

quote:

TF 89 encounters mine field at Lahaina (182,108)

Japanese Ships
DD Samidare
TB Kari
DD Nagatsuki, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Yudachi

8 mines cleared

quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Lahaina at 182,108, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Yamagumo
DD Minegumo
DD Asagumo
xAK Seian Maru
xAK Tokusima Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Kosei Maru #4
xAK Yamagiku Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Toyokawa Maru
xAK Konan Maru, Shell hits 2
xAK Somedono Maru
xAK Kurohime Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Anzan Maru #2, Shell hits 1
xAK Chowa Maru

Allied Ships
PT-20
PT-21
PT-22
PT-23
PT-24
PT-25

quote:

Sub attack near Niihau at 173,107

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku, Torpedo hits 1
DD Sanae

Allied Ships
SS Triton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

What were the damage messages on the Shokaku? If you didn't see any of the following:

Severe Damage
Critical Damage
Listing, counter-flooding
...and so on

Then damage is most likely not severe. If you only saw "Belt armor penetration" and nothing else, then I'd say there's maybe a 50% chance that major damage is less than 10 points and she'll be hanging around. Without any of the above messages, anyway. Especially since there is no "on fire" in the combat report. Sys damage may not be high, either.

Still, it's something, I guess.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Don't forget to get the ships out of Kona, lest they be scuttled!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Gotta love it when a Japanese xAK escorted by two DMS hits a mine anyway ...
Seppuku time!

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Intersting you're not taking Ichang. That base is useless but the direct path it provides for troops to Changsha is important. That big concentration of troops helps shore up the center.

quote:

ASW attack near Niihau at 174,108

Japanese Ships
CA Tone, Torpedo hits 1
CL Abukuma
DD Hamakaze

Allied Ships
SS Triton

SS Triton launches 4 torpedoes at CA Tone
Triton diving deep ....

quote:

TF 11 encounters mine field at Singkawang (56,88)

Japanese Ships
DD Hagikaze
DD Arashi
CA Mogami, Mine hits 1

2 mines cleared

quote:

TF 89 encounters mine field at Lahaina (182,108)

Japanese Ships
DD Fumizuki, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
TB Kari

3 mines cleared

quote:

Ground combat at Singapore (50,84)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 58110 troops, 544 guns, 530 vehicles, Assault Value = 1955

Defending force 25789 troops, 284 guns, 172 vehicles, Assault Value = 326

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1794

Allied adjusted defense: 251

Japanese assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Singapore !!!

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
S.19 Singapore III: 1 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
1188 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 130 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Vehicles lost 30 (2 destroyed, 28 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
16986 casualties reported
Squads: 531 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2246 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 91 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 380 (380 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 175 (175 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 23

quote:

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 21145 troops, 295 guns, 180 vehicles, Assault Value = 551

Defending force 7116 troops, 128 guns, 71 vehicles, Assault Value = 136

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 250

Allied adjusted defense: 261

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
255 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 19 disabled
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
600 casualties reported
Squads: 32 destroyed, 22 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Guns lost 16 (6 destroyed, 10 disabled)

quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Given the distances involved, those damaged ships have a chance of definitely not making it home for repairs....this is another reason why PH is a bad play for Japan - the potential for lots of damage with very little gain at the end of the day.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Luzon - Can you use PP to buy out the 4th Marines and any other LCU that can be air transported south by PBYs?? As always, Aviation Support is in short supply on Java and beyond. Maybe get some fragments into Australia so when the parent is destroyed you don't have to wait 30 days before it comes back in San Fran.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I could do that. But the 4th are due to withdraw in 400 something days. They also cost a whooping 400 PPs! PPs badly needed for other things!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I could do that. But the 4th are due to withdraw in 400 something days. They also cost a whooping 400 PPs! PPs badly needed for other things!

Did you swap for Nimitz at PH? Or too expensive?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I could do that. But the 4th are due to withdraw in 400 something days. They also cost a whooping 400 PPs! PPs badly needed for other things!

Did you swap for Nimitz at PH? Or too expensive?

I havn´t yet. 100 PPs...