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RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-reinforcements

 
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RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 6/13/2015 12:46:46 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Hi Vic,

Getting some strange behavior in a scenario based on a random game I've been tweaking. I have 3 regimes in the scenario. Two of them (Das Reich and The Empire) I set up TO&Es for in the editor. I created a number of units with certain TO&Es for both of those regimes. Now when I run the game, Regime #0 (Das Riech) everything works out OK as human player. But Regime #1 (The Empire) is doing something strange when I play as human. When the game starts, all the subformations from the units with TO&Es are being sent back to the HQ in charge of those units. So when I start the game all the units which I set up subformations in along with TO&Es are empty. As far as I can tell I set up the TO&Es for regime #0 and Regime #2 the same way so I'm not sure why they aren't working for #2 when I set it as the "human" player like they are with Regime #0.

A little background on the scenario in question. I generated a random game, then deleted the master file (a new dawn 3) and made just a few limited custom changes, such as creating a new map. I wish I could attach a save game or the scenario file but it's 664 KB and too large for the forum. I used the "Model Designer" button to set up the units with TO&Es in the editor instead of using the TOE button in the upper left corner. So I don't know if it's supposed to be done in that manner but, like I say, it seems to work OK for regime #0 when I do it that way but not regime #2.

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Post #: 181
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 6/13/2015 1:27:08 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		DOH! Never mind! I looked closer and did some more experimenting and I think I found my mistake. User error. I got my peoples' all mixed up and was using TO&Es with the wrong peoples set in them. Woops. 



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Post #: 182
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 6/13/2015 1:22:01 PM   
LJBurstyn

 

Posts: 626
Joined: 4/19/2011
Status: offline 		Some news from my playtesting of my scenario.

The SFT setup tab is where you can set researched units as "replacements" for units you used to set up the TOE (so you don't have to redo the TOEs every time you advance your research).

Make sure the Reinforcement Type points to the unit that you set up in the TOE.

Example: Set up German Panzer Division with Panzer IV-D's...along come the replacement Panzer IV-F's.
But the TOE will not send the IV-F to replace lost IV-D's unless the Reinforcement type SFT for IV-F says the SFT # that corresponds to the IV-D.

So if the SFT # for Infantry I is 0. Infantry II (#=30 in my scenario) has to have 0 as the type for Reinforcement.
Infantry III (#=31 in my scenario) also has to point to 0 as the type for reinforcement (NOT 30).
Units can have Infantry I and Infantry II in same unit. If the TOE sends these as replacements they don't count against the 8 SFT per unit limit.
I've had units with 10 SFT types in them. (Panzer II-C and II-F, Panzer III-? and III-F and Panzer IV-D and IV-F plus Infantry, HW, S-232 and S-251's.)

Since some of my Reinforcement Types are wrongly set up in the SFT tab I have to go through every SFT type to check it's SFT Reinforcement Type. In my scenario that's 326 SFT types. This becomes more difficult as some types are used in different nations as replacements. Example: Italy uses German equipment later in the war as it was better than their equipment. As there are not two reinforcement types the only way I found around this is to set up a NEW TOE.

(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 183
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 6/14/2015 3:41:23 AM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		I may have found another bug, not sure. I clicked on research level 2 machinegun but when I went into the Model designer and chose one of my infantry brigades to upgrade the machinegun to level 2, it was not there. Still only level 1 machinegun, no level 2

(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 184
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 6/14/2015 1:17:01 PM   
LJBurstyn

 

Posts: 626
Joined: 4/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

I may have found another bug, not sure. I clicked on research level 2 machinegun but when I went into the Model designer and chose one of my infantry brigades to upgrade the machinegun to level 2, it was not there. Still only level 1 machinegun, no level 2


The TOE does not change but the Level 2 MG will replace the Level 1 MG in units. That is as long as the SFT for
Level2 MG points to Level 1 MG as it's replacement type.

edit> make that reinforcement type in the SFT edit tab <end edit


< Message edited by LJBurstyn -- 6/14/2015 2:18:15 PM >

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 185
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 6/15/2015 2:21:45 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Is this official yet?

(in reply to LJBurstyn)
Post #: 186
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 6/15/2015 3:15:00 PM   
Tac2i


Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		If you're asking if Matrix Games has created an installer for an official public beta, no that has not happened yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Is this official yet?



< Message edited by Webizen -- 6/15/2015 4:24:35 PM >

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Tac2i (formerly webizen)

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 187
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 7/6/2015 4:36:17 PM   
Tac2i


Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		The official public beta is now released.

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Tac2i (formerly webizen)

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Post #: 188
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 7/8/2015 12:59:53 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Can we get a thread that explains how this works? I have a test game and I made 3 units one headquarters a leg Infantry unit and a armored unit. All that shows up in the assign a unit tab is the headquarters.

(in reply to Tac2i)
Post #: 189
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 7/8/2015 2:24:01 AM   
gwgardner

 

Posts: 6722
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Can we get a thread that explains how this works? I have a test game and I made 3 units one headquarters a leg Infantry unit and a armored unit. All that shows up in the assign a unit tab is the headquarters.

From Vic's opening post in this thread, a link to the explanation you're looking for I think:

http://www.vrdesigns.nl/atwiki/doku.php?id=tables_of_organisation_and_equipment


< Message edited by gwgardner -- 7/8/2015 3:24:44 AM >

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 190
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 7/10/2015 9:03:08 PM   
Strategiusz


Posts: 236
Joined: 9/13/2008
From: Upper Silesia, Poland
Status: offline 		I installed 2.00, then the official 2.20 update and then I copied 2.21d files. I don't know if I Installed all that in the proper way, so many patches in different places and I backed to this game just this evening, because I want to check this big game change.

It looks like autoreinforcing can be done for units 5 hexes from the source HQ (but not through an enemy territory) even without roads. Normally the transferred SFT (mortars in my case) can't move so far. A bug?

< Message edited by Madlok -- 7/10/2015 10:24:32 PM >

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Post #: 191
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 7/10/2015 9:15:37 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Vic made it so that SFTs can travel longer when autoreinforcing than they could normally. It is now a rulevar that can be adjusted. It is probably that which you are experiencing.

(in reply to Strategiusz)
Post #: 192
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 7/10/2015 9:39:27 PM   
Strategiusz


Posts: 236
Joined: 9/13/2008
From: Upper Silesia, Poland
Status: offline 		Thanks, now I see, it's probably rulevar 912. IMO a cheaper transfer is not necessary. I must test the new feature with the hardcore production rule.

< Message edited by Madlok -- 7/10/2015 10:40:18 PM >

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Post #: 193
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 7/11/2015 2:34:13 PM   
Strategiusz


Posts: 236
Joined: 9/13/2008
From: Upper Silesia, Poland
Status: offline 		OK, it works well with hardcore production (rulevar 312 on). Lets say all my cities are connected with each other. I have a HQ without commander in each city, and each city has it's target HQ set to the HQ in this city. One of those HQ is Supreme HQ and it has no HQ above. The rest of my "city HQs" are subordinated to Supreme HQ. It is important to produce enough supply in the city with Supreme HQ and no supply in other cities (or transfer manually from other "city HQ"), because supply system is not part of the auto-reinforcement system as far as I know and it cant automatically go to upper HQ. It is good idea to produce some trains in Supreme HQ's city too.

In my metod Supreme HQ has not any TOE assigned to it whatsoever. But other "city HQs" have: Return=Yes, AutoStaff=Off, and in TOE only 1 Staff. So they send everything to their HQ which is Supreme HQ, but not for free, like with rulever 312 off, but through Supreme HQ's trains.

This is the simplest model possible and is good when you fight on one front and Supreme HQ is not at the other end of the country. On some map it is necessary to have more than one Supreme HQs.

---------------------

Now about the feature. I didn't expect it will be so good.
It is slower than manually transfer, because SFTs will go one HQ step per turn, but it is possible to set it cheaper in AP and transfer capacity (well, and it is by default). And it has a priority system and it is possible to set limits in transfer capacity points.
It gives me a stimulus to use more interesting units (with more SFTs inside).

I have found a little bug. When you are in "Change Model" mode and switching between units in the same stack by clicking on the stack everything works fine. But when you want to change units by clicking on them in the right "hex panel" it just doesn't work (it looks like the unit is changed, but in fact it is not).

I have an idea to make PP cost for changing TOE model for unit, lets say 1 PP. Because I suspect that cheaper transfers and a free model changing can be exploit in some way.

< Message edited by Madlok -- 7/12/2015 12:02:42 PM >

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Post #: 194
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 7/12/2015 6:43:28 PM   
Jafele


Posts: 737
Joined: 4/20/2011
From: Seville (Spain)
Status: offline 		I also play with rulevar 312 (production can only arrive at HQ in own hex) but automatic reinforcents don´t work overseas. Ports or shipyards with HQ+cargoships are useless.

Am I doing something wrong?

(in reply to Strategiusz)
Post #: 195
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 7/13/2015 6:00:45 AM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I have found a little bug. When you are in "Change Model" mode and switching between units in the same stack by clicking on the stack everything works fine. But when you want to change units by clicking on them in the right "hex panel" it just doesn't work (it looks like the unit is changed, but in fact it is not).


Thanks for reporting. Will check this out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jafele
I also play with rulevar 312 (production can only arrive at HQ in own hex) but automatic reinforcents don´t work overseas. Ports or shipyards with HQ+cargoships are useless.
Am I doing something wrong?


Probably. If you have 2 HQ's in your chain of command it should work. One in the sending port with cargoships and one in the receiving port with trucks or trains to distribute further overland.

best wishes,
Vic

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(in reply to Jafele)
Post #: 196
RE: RE:to Private beta test ATG v2.21 : TOEs and auto-r... - 7/14/2015 9:06:47 PM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		In my korea scenario this works as my main HQ " 8th Army" is in Japan, while I have created another HQ which says " Korea command" and this pushes out reinforcements to units directly under it's command as well as HQ's under the Korean HQ Command. This is for US forces only, and the US Korean GHQ was created in game not during the editing portion

< Message edited by lion_of_judah -- 7/14/2015 10:07:01 PM >

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 197
RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20g : TOEs and auto-reinfo... - 7/15/2015 1:36:44 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen

Some way to save your TO&E templates is an excellent idea for random games. Perhaps an export/import facility of some kind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jafele

Hey Vic, the TOE feature makes the game better and faster. Furthermore, players spend more time using tactics than before. I like it!

Is possible to save formations for different random games? I mean you load your favourite formation (ie 20 rifle+2 machine gun+1 mortar) in any game. So, you don´t need to create it every time you play a different game.

Cheers




There already are export/import functions. When you open the TOE Designer in a game in progress, at the bottom are import and export buttons. When you get a TOE you like in a game, simply export it and save it, then import the saved TOE into the next game you play.

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Post #: 198
RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20g : TOEs and auto-reinfo... - 7/15/2015 12:01:46 PM   
Tac2i


Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		Gary, this was a suggestion that Vic adopted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen

Some way to save your TO&E templates is an excellent idea for random games. Perhaps an export/import facility of some kind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jafele

Hey Vic, the TOE feature makes the game better and faster. Furthermore, players spend more time using tactics than before. I like it!

Is possible to save formations for different random games? I mean you load your favourite formation (ie 20 rifle+2 machine gun+1 mortar) in any game. So, you don´t need to create it every time you play a different game.

Cheers




There already are export/import functions. When you open the TOE Designer in a game in progress, at the bottom are import and export buttons. When you get a TOE you like in a game, simply export it and save it, then import the saved TOE into the next game you play.



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Tac2i (formerly webizen)

(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 199
RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20g : TOEs and auto-reinfo... - 7/15/2015 3:07:44 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Apologies. I must have been half asleep when I read and posted that.  

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 7/15/2015 4:07:33 PM >

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