RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers

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RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/7/2015 2:56:00 AM

Kuokkanen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

I might can deal with DLC of nations and such as long as the 'base' game remains the same. I want randomized everything, scenario's and campaign's. I still want it all in one package but even I can break a little if I get the main portion of the game the same.

A lot of the games with expansions and DLCs have been sold with everything in one package when it all got made and done. SPWAW - Generals Edition, Warhammer 40,000: Armageddon - Collector's Edition, Civilization IV: Complete Edition, Half-Life: Orange Box, and Total Annihilation: Commander Pack are few that come to mind. Would there be any reason why it wouldn't be the same for Steel Tigers?

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Post #: 121

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/7/2015 12:05:21 PM

Riitaoja

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
...I want randomized everything, scenario's and campaign's...

Actually I seldom played the random battles or campaigns in any Steel Panthers games. I always prefered the premade ones that followed some historic story and had nicely made maps with the AI deployed in a sensible way.

The random battles on the other hand just had a fairly dull looking procedurally generated map with often silly placement of roads and bridges. Also the AI would just throw it's units on the map and place AT guns in thick forest and do all sorts of other silly things like that with its units.

That said random battle generator is ofcourse still an easy way to quickly add more content to a new game. Making good custom scenarios and campaigns takes alot of time.

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Post #: 122

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/7/2015 1:12:22 PM

Riitaoja

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
Just a thought but there is another counter system I could get into for this game and that's Mark Walker's counters and units in Heroes of Stalingrad. Let me hear what ya think about that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: map66
I agree completely there--- those HOS counters are great, and in many ways would work better than 2d or 3d "realistic" models to convey information.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.
That counter and map style is just about what I want to see. Although the game module concept of that release was/is simply too skinny in content for me. A good and bad example in that sense.

Wait, what?

One of the reasons I got hooked into Steel Panthers was that it was not your standard cardboard counters strategy game but instead had "real" tanks moving around in the terrain. Those unit counter graphics are dry and take away the immersion.

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Post #: 123

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/8/2015 12:17:17 AM

Jason Petho

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quote:

I'd really like a good tactical game of it and not John Tillers toy game Rising Sun Gold.

Just out of curiousity, what is wrong with Rising Sun?

Jason Petho

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Post #: 124

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/8/2015 1:45:54 AM

Max 86

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Riitaoja

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
Just a thought but there is another counter system I could get into for this game and that's Mark Walker's counters and units in Heroes of Stalingrad. Let me hear what ya think about that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: map66
I agree completely there--- those HOS counters are great, and in many ways would work better than 2d or 3d "realistic" models to convey information.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.
That counter and map style is just about what I want to see. Although the game module concept of that release was/is simply too skinny in content for me. A good and bad example in that sense.

Wait, what?

One of the reasons I got hooked into Steel Panthers was that it was not your standard cardboard counters strategy game but instead had "real" tanks moving around in the terrain. Those unit counter graphics are dry and take away the immersion.

Major +1. At a minimum, it has to have top down view with rotating turrets and little flaming wrecks, same as before. Craters in the terrain too, relative to artillery size.

< Message edited by Max 86 -- 7/8/2015 2:51:21 AM >

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Post #: 125

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/8/2015 5:03:59 PM

Kuokkanen

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What I have learned about Continuation War was Finnish Ground Force (or: Finnish Army) used all the weapons that were on the battlefields from own native made weapons to salvaged T-34/85 and everything between. In addition units going to frontline could trade their bolt-action rifles to sub-machine guns of another unit going to rear for rest & reinforcements. That could mean finnish infantry squad could have any number of bolt-action rifles, salvaged (semi-)automatic rifles, sub-machine guns, (light) machine guns, Molotov cocktails, anti-tank mines, Panzerfausts, and whatever else I might have overlooked here. So for infantry squads I suggest this: few ready to use templates that can be modified within the game to have different weapons of varying numbers.

And vehicles should have reverse gear available.

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Post #: 126

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/8/2015 7:06:43 PM

Jeffrey H.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Riitaoja

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
Just a thought but there is another counter system I could get into for this game and that's Mark Walker's counters and units in Heroes of Stalingrad. Let me hear what ya think about that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: map66
I agree completely there--- those HOS counters are great, and in many ways would work better than 2d or 3d "realistic" models to convey information.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.
That counter and map style is just about what I want to see. Although the game module concept of that release was/is simply too skinny in content for me. A good and bad example in that sense.

Wait, what?

One of the reasons I got hooked into Steel Panthers was that it was not your standard cardboard counters strategy game but instead had "real" tanks moving around in the terrain. Those unit counter graphics are dry and take away the immersion.

I'm good with this idea too. I liked the old SP style as well.

What I don't like is the toy soldier, plane on a stick style that seems so popular today.

Either way, old school AH Squad Leader style counters or old school top down style SP, (or CC for that matter) individual items.

Again relying on frail memories of SP1, there was a battle results panel that was flashed on screen showing what part of the firing item was firing and then you could see some sort of combat results flash on screen.

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Post #: 127

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/8/2015 7:10:36 PM

Kanov

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I guess I can finally get into this game when ST is released. I tried to begin to get into SP but just investigating about it and its different versions gave me a headache.

I come from close combat btw which I thought was a similar game but I guess they're not.

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Post #: 128

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/8/2015 8:04:49 PM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Riitaoja

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
Just a thought but there is another counter system I could get into for this game and that's Mark Walker's counters and units in Heroes of Stalingrad. Let me hear what ya think about that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: map66
I agree completely there--- those HOS counters are great, and in many ways would work better than 2d or 3d "realistic" models to convey information.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.
That counter and map style is just about what I want to see. Although the game module concept of that release was/is simply too skinny in content for me. A good and bad example in that sense.

Wait, what?

One of the reasons I got hooked into Steel Panthers was that it was not your standard cardboard counters strategy game but instead had "real" tanks moving around in the terrain. Those unit counter graphics are dry and take away the immersion.

Maybe for YOU but not for everybody else. Too me the top down look of a tank or truck or any of the vehicles was dry and boring. I almost didn't play because of that. No, I surely hope that is the "one" technique they "don't" use in Steel Tigers. If it is then there's been really no improvement on the looks of the game.

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Post #: 129

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/8/2015 8:55:58 PM

Rosseau

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The newly announced Mideast game will be enough for me

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Post #: 130

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/8/2015 9:37:48 PM

Matt R

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quote:

Maybe for YOU but not for everybody else. Too me the top down look of a tank or truck or any of the vehicles was dry and boring. I almost didn't play because of that. No, I surely hope that is the "one" technique they "don't" use in Steel Tigers. If it is then there's been really no improvement on the looks of the game.

I have a strong feeling you're in the minority on this one, my friend

I've been modding SP icons for years. In fact, the crappy-looking infantry icons in last official release of WaW and Enhanced.. I'm guilty of those travesties

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Post #: 131

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/8/2015 9:42:48 PM

Matt R

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I would like to see bodies left on the field like vehicle wrecks.

I've been to war. It's a mess, to put it mildly.

Bodies and dead livestock will definitely add a level of realism. Nothing too gory, but something.

I had added some bodies icons to the Civil War mod in the special terrain icons SHP. Helped a lot, I think.

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Post #: 132

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/8/2015 10:37:48 PM

PipFromSlitherine

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I think bodies will probably be left in the same way we do in BA, though no blood. We are aiming for a high quality visual look and feel - though nothing indicative to show yet, or indeed for a while!

Cheers

Pip

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Post #: 133

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 12:56:41 AM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

We are aiming for a high quality visual look and feel

Oh that is good to hear. Thanks Pip.

< Message edited by aaatoysandmore -- 7/9/2015 1:59:30 AM >

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Post #: 134

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 1:36:09 AM

budd

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I hope they stay with the top down look. I have every confidence in 2x3.

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Post #: 135

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 10:43:10 AM

genMaczek

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Few questions to devs:

1.will it be hex based? Whats gonna be size of hex? 50m?

2.there is no unit stacking in Battle Acadamy, will ST have unit stacking just like orginal Steel Panthers? I cannot imagine making real Steel Panthers clone without unit stacking.

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Post #: 136

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 12:08:07 PM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**

I hope they stay with the top down look. I have every confidence in 2x3.

I hope they don't.

I have every confidence in 2x3. (I'm really hoping for the Battle Academy look)

I'm hoping the HIGH quality VISUAL look gave it away.

quote:

Just out of curiousity, what is wrong with Rising Sun?

Jason Petho

What isn't? Here's the short list:

1. Yellow Tanks? (they could have used the bases and put the real color of tanks and other units for the Japs.

2. Everything way too small. It was almost like playing a Close Combat game which I don't for that exact reason.

3. Movement too slow (two hexes a turn for the inf? it takes forever to get into the action)

4. Cricket sound was annoying and terrible.

5. Takes too long for the engagements to start in random battles. Especially with that 2 hex movement of inf. front lines should have been 2 to 3 turns apart no more than 5.

6. Had to click every side exchange in an AI vs AI match just trying to watch how a game plays in the beginning. It's still annoying in a regular game when it's the AI's turn. If I click end turn it should be end turn and I don't have to click for the AI to start moving.

7. Too many units to move in a regiment vs regiment battle the smallest battle in the game and it took forever to finish just my turn let alone watching the ai move in a non-fog game.

8. AI generally braindead like most Tiller games.

Mostly it just looked and played like a toy soldiers in a sandbox. Too small icons and too long for a turn to pass.

What else would you like to know?

< Message edited by aaatoysandmore -- 7/9/2015 2:43:41 PM >

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Post #: 137

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 12:29:10 PM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Not really...a game designed to be played from the top down would be much easier to manage and control than say CMx2 games are when playing top down, also CMx2 isn't really designed as a WEGO game so has issues playing like that.I envision the game to look very different to CMx2. The loss of hexes really wasn't a major request..I've just found abstract hex terrain if coupled with a highly detailed combat mechanic can create problems.

As for WEGO their is no reason that can't be played PBEM..You do your turned they do theirs then plays end of turn and you get the save where then you can watch the outcome.

I feel at a tactical scale then simultaneous turns is the most realistic mechanic..at higher scales then IGOUGO is fine. Flashpoint Campaigns is a breath of fresh air as it uses it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

wodin, it sounds like your wishes would create another CM/Panzer Command type of game. Why another one of those? Aren't they good enough now? I want the tried and true IGO-UGO style, hexes and the like so you can have easily done pbem games with results as soon as you move and fire. I dislike plotting moves -- especially travel columns -- with a passion.

I gotta say though a CMx2 look with the ability to play ALL the nations and a decent random battle or random campaign scenario would be just awesome. CMx2 is just too modulized for me and the quick battles is a joke of an implementation of random battles. I remember some campaign games from Combat Mission but never any random generated ones.

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Post #: 138

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 1:50:04 PM

budd

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If they don't keep a lot of improved similarities to the original don't piggy back off the name. It's a good question probably with a wide range of opinions.
What do they have to keep "in" to be an SP remake, is scale, turned based and name enough? Top down graphics? Battle generator? Massive oob's ? All theatre's ? How about a rough road map from 2X3, we haven't heard from them yet. If your going to announce something like this, shouldn' t you have to step to the podium and face the crowd

< Message edited by **budd** -- 7/9/2015 2:51:42 PM >

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Post #: 139

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 2:12:28 PM

aaatoysandmore

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In the light of ALL the Steel Panthers versions made before what has remained the same in all of them and what has changed?

Top down has been in all of them except Kampfgruppe and Battlegroup which was a SIDE view.

But, if we go back to Kampfgruppe not every theater was in every game. They did separate Kampfgruppe from Battlegroup just like they did Panzer Strike and Typhoon of Steel. But, then came along Steel Panthers and each new version added more stuff than the last until we got Steel Panthers W@W with EVERYTHING, all theaters, all nations, full random battle generator, full campaign generator. What we didn't get was all scenarios that others made and that created the GENERAL edition which was really Steel Panthers with just a bunch of premades (which I never play) scenarios and campaigns.

Soooooo, if the Spiritual Successor is anything like the past it WILL have ALL the nations, theaters, random battle generator, campaign generator and IMPROVED graphics (whether they will be top down or 3D is the question. Going by the past it probably will be top down but I can always hope for a change in at least the graphics.)

That's just my 2cents I've been with the Steel Panthers series since Kampfgruppe and I've seen it all and couldn't have been happier when Steel Panthers W@W came out. I have The General edition with all the Mega Campaigns but I don't really play that as I just can't stand premades of anything anymore. To me the fun of pretending is pretending to command in a situation where you don't know the outcome, that's why I enjoy Norbsoft's Civil War and now Napoleon series (I don't play the premades I just play sandbox). Premades have too many sources that people quickly run and google before they play a game against someone. With random you don't have that option.

So, with all that you could very well get your top down look but I'm trying to visualize how they can IMPROVE on those "awful" graphics and blotches of infantry.

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Post #: 140

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 3:01:33 PM

Max 86

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
So, with all that you could very well get your top down look but I'm trying to visualize how they can IMPROVE on those "awful" graphics and blotches of infantry.

I would , no doubt about it, buy a remake of SP with the exact same look and feel but updated to work flawlessly with Win7/8/10/etc..but I wouldn't mind an improved top down view. I think most agree that the old look is the MINIMUM that would be acceptable, the baseline to measure against, but with today's capabilities I would think they could do some pretty nice top down graphics.

Either way...hurray! they're remaking SP!

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Post #: 141

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 7:00:16 PM

Jeffrey H.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

I think bodies will probably be left in the same way we do in BA, though no blood. We are aiming for a high quality visual look and feel - though nothing indicative to show yet, or indeed for a while!

Cheers

Pip

I don't have any experience with the BA game mentioned here and in other places so I took a look at the screenshots on the Slitherine website.

I don't like the graphics of that game, it's a little bit too much toy timey silliness for my tastes.

Lets hope for something different.

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Post #: 142

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 7:58:59 PM

wodin

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Well I don't agree aswell. Top down is fine by me. If a game is designed top down it means you don't have to mess around with camera angles etc.

I think a majority of wargamers who will buy ST will want top down graphics. That doesn't mean they have to look bad though. Make sure there are some great visual effects and great animations then I'm more than happy with top down. Plus when a game is designed as top down it makes playing the wargame much easier. What I would like to see is the same scale for all units and terrain features. Also for the units to have a gritty realistic look and not a Battle Academy cartoon look.

Saying if the game doesn't go more 3D visually then it's no improvement is a strange thing to say when it's actually gameplay features where the important improvements will be.

It really wouldn't be a Steel Panthers type game if it wasn't top down. Honestly the last thing I'd want to see is it looking like Battle Academy. You could make top down graphics look way better than that game anyway. Actually when I play BA I always use the top down view anyway. Just much easier to play the game that way I find.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt R

quote:

Maybe for YOU but not for everybody else. Too me the top down look of a tank or truck or any of the vehicles was dry and boring. I almost didn't play because of that. No, I surely hope that is the "one" technique they "don't" use in Steel Tigers. If it is then there's been really no improvement on the looks of the game.

I have a strong feeling you're in the minority on this one, my friend

I've been modding SP icons for years. In fact, the crappy-looking infantry icons in last official release of WaW and Enhanced.. I'm guilty of those travesties

< Message edited by wodin -- 7/9/2015 9:05:57 PM >

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RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 10:37:34 PM

JEB Davis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Max 86

quote:

ORIGINAL: Riitaoja

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
Just a thought but there is another counter system I could get into for this game and that's Mark Walker's counters and units in Heroes of Stalingrad. Let me hear what ya think about that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: map66
I agree completely there--- those HOS counters are great, and in many ways would work better than 2d or 3d "realistic" models to convey information.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.
That counter and map style is just about what I want to see. Although the game module concept of that release was/is simply too skinny in content for me. A good and bad example in that sense.

Wait, what?

One of the reasons I got hooked into Steel Panthers was that it was not your standard cardboard counters strategy game but instead had "real" tanks moving around in the terrain. Those unit counter graphics are dry and take away the immersion.

Major +1. At a minimum, it has to have top down view with rotating turrets and little flaming wrecks, same as before. Craters in the terrain too, relative to artillery size.

Major +2

Counters would not be good. Mouseover gives information. Click for more, esc cancels. Very easy.

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Post #: 144

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 10:41:45 PM

JEB Davis

Posts: 443
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From: Michigan, U.T.B.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**

I hope they stay with the top down look. I have every confidence in 2x3.

I hope they don't. I have every confidence in 2x3. (I'm really hoping for the Battle Academy look)

I'm hoping the HIGH quality VISUAL look gave it away.

quote:

Just out of curiousity, what is wrong with Rising Sun?

Jason Petho

What isn't? Here's the short list:

1. Yellow Tanks? (they could have used the bases and put the real color of tanks and other units for the Japs.

2. Everything way too small. It was almost like playing a Close Combat game which I don't for that exact reason.

3. Movement too slow (two hexes a turn for the inf? it takes forever to get into the action)

4. Cricket sound was annoying and terrible.

5. Takes too long for the engagements to start in random battles. Especially with that 2 hex movement of inf. front lines should have been 2 to 3 turns apart no more than 5.

6. Had to click every side exchange in an AI vs AI match just trying to watch how a game plays in the beginning. It's still annoying in a regular game when it's the AI's turn. If I click end turn it should be end turn and I don't have to click for the AI to start moving.

7. Too many units to move in a regiment vs regiment battle the smallest battle in the game and it took forever to finish just my turn let alone watching the ai move in a non-fog game.

8. AI generally braindead like most Tiller games.

Mostly it just looked and played like a toy soldiers in a sandbox. Too small icons and too long for a turn to pass.

What else would you like to know?

I almost hate to say this... but I really don't.

aaa it looks like you don't want a Steel Panthers game at all!
You keep describing something else altogether.

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Post #: 145

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 10:44:12 PM

Erik Rutins

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Hi guys,

The visuals will be very high quality. It will not look like Battle Academy, which had its own art style, it will look like a much better Steel Panthers.

We really can't say much more at this point, despite all the interest, but I'm glad to see that you are all interested!

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 146

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 11:09:51 PM

Ratzki

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Why not stick with top-down but reduce the hex size to allow for a little more interesting maps?

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Post #: 147

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 11:14:17 PM

JEB Davis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ratzki

Why not stick with top-down but reduce the hex size to allow for a little more interesting maps?

I've liked that idea for years. How about 25m hexes.

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Post #: 148

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 11:17:45 PM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326
NO MORE EAST FRONT!...But please GOD! No more Eastern front. Give it a freakin' rest!

yeah, please give us more D-Day or Battle of the Bulge!

There are lots of battles/situations on the East Front which have rarely, if ever, been modeled...

Sure, variety is a good thing, but trying to sell a game like this without the East Front (or D-Day/Bulge) would be a little nutty...

< Message edited by 76mm -- 7/10/2015 12:25:08 AM >

(in reply to Werewolf13)

Post #: 149

RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers - 7/9/2015 11:44:55 PM

wodin

Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

Is 25m abit small when dealing with squad size units, esp for the nations who had large squads?

@Pip, has work actually started on ST? Or is it all about the new engine at the moment? If so how far along is the new engine?

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(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 150