Slitherine

quote:


Which brings me back to the "Why don't we have Hollywood blockbusters with X nationality (non-American) focus?" To which I respond as Warspite1 did: Go then. Do it. Get it done. You've got the means. Have at it.

My guess is the very small market of Australia, New Zealand and Canada limits their options for independent self-focused "Hollywood-style" films. What's that? 70-75 million people total. There's insufficient market power there.

And then you lot would have to answer the same questions that Hollywood has for years: "What's the export market like?" Sure, you duped us with Yahoo Serious and Crocodile Dundee a few years back (don't think I've forgotten either mate), but do Australian films (particularly Australian-focused war films) have any exportability? If not, you're unlikely to recoup the massive budget required to export it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


Sorry, their backing from "Mother Russia" and intrinsic 'patriotic' (read: Soviet now Russian propaganda) twist on things from the Great Patriotic War are too much for me to stomach.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
I was merely suggesting that I think there is a global market for a British-centric movie with no Americans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


Sorry, their backing from "Mother Russia" and intrinsic 'patriotic' (read: Soviet now Russian propaganda) twist on things from the Great Patriotic War are too much for me to stomach.

Call me weird, but as non British person I am more interested in the RAF night Bombing campaign. Less spectacular and glamourous perhaps, but I was very surprised when I learned the really huge losses à la U-Boot losses. A tough long fight.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Neilster and other Ozzies/Kiwis:

4-5 years ago, an Australian production company did an Australian-centric movie on the fighting over the Owen Stanleys and the Kakoda trail (track to you lot). I think it was just "Kakoda". Been trying to find that bloody film on the interwebs for some time without success.

You seen it? What did you think? Know where I can sneak a peek?

Kokoda was made in 2006. I haven't seen it but apparently it's quite good. It focuses on small unit actions and the Japanese are almost never seen, emphasising the claustrophobic nature of jungle combat.

I can't help you with the other stuff. Of course you could always support our small and struggling film industry by actually buying it

Cheers, Neilster

I'd be happy to buy it. Where can I do that in San Antonio, Texas mate?

warspite1

Amazon sell it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:


Which brings me back to the "Why don't we have Hollywood blockbusters with X nationality (non-American) focus?" To which I respond as Warspite1 did: Go then. Do it. Get it done. You've got the means. Have at it.

My guess is the very small market of Australia, New Zealand and Canada limits their options for independent self-focused "Hollywood-style" films. What's that? 70-75 million people total. There's insufficient market power there.

And then you lot would have to answer the same questions that Hollywood has for years: "What's the export market like?" Sure, you duped us with Yahoo Serious and Crocodile Dundee a few years back (don't think I've forgotten either mate), but do Australian films (particularly Australian-focused war films) have any exportability? If not, you're unlikely to recoup the massive budget required to export it.

I don't understand what you're getting at with this. I was merely suggesting that I think there is a global market for a British-centric movie with no Americans. A Dunkirk movie is being made and apparently a Battle of Britain one (although, as Warspite has mentioned, I bet there are some Americans in that one) too. I didn't say anything about making an Australian movie.

Cheers, Neilster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
I was merely suggesting that I think there is a global market for a British-centric movie with no Americans.

I will be interested to see how this fares at the global box office ex-Britannia. I wish it nothing but the best, but I truly *don't* know the global market for a British-centric war movie that focuses explicitly on only British (well, the Germans and French are in it too I guess ) issues of historical importance.

Personally, I am awaiting with bated breath. However, the forum regulars here are very much *not* your average cinema goers. I've seen a couple trailer reviews of Dunkirk by 'average joes' that had me shaking my head at the ignorance of your average person. In between quietly weeping for the species, I wondered whether our interest in this topic means anything in terms of box office returns.

We shall see...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

Largest in land mass or population?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Yes. My original point was that the British Empire was the largest the world has ever seen and there are lingering cultural ties. This is perhaps not obvious to our American friends. Cricket anyone? Plucky underdogs battling menacing Nazis is a universally popular theme anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Yes. My original point was that the British Empire was the largest the world has ever seen and there are lingering cultural ties. This is perhaps not obvious to our American friends. Cricket anyone? Plucky underdogs battling menacing Nazis is a universally popular theme anyway.

Meh. Were that central premise true, British global 'cultural ties' to cinema would still be meaningful. What was the last British movie that was popularized in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, En Zed, Ozz or Canada? Seriously.

Or do you think this ephemeral cultural touchstone of which you speak is exclusively relegated to British military films involving non-American audiences? Because I don't see it. Obvious or subtle, I just don't see a universality to British-focused films.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AndyG1

Real flying, only love story is the plane:)

https://youtu.be/4iOoiEbtf2w

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Yes. My original point was that the British Empire was the largest the world has ever seen and there are lingering cultural ties. This is perhaps not obvious to our American friends. Cricket anyone? Plucky underdogs battling menacing Nazis is a universally popular theme anyway.

Meh. Were that central premise true, British global 'cultural ties' to cinema would still be meaningful. What was the last British movie that was popularized in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, En Zed, Ozz or Canada? Seriously.

Or do you think this ephemeral cultural touchstone of which you speak is exclusively relegated to British military films involving non-American audiences? Because I don't see it. Obvious or subtle, I just don't see a universality to British-focused films.

Since, say, 2010...The King's Speech, Sherlock Holmes, Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides, X-Men: First Class, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Anna Karenina, Life of Pi, Skyfall, Les Misérables, The Bling Ring, Man of Steel, The Wolverine, Gravity, Saving Mr. Banks, The Trip to Italy, The Grand Budapest Hotel, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Guardians of the Galaxy, The Imitation Game, The Theory of Everything, Interstellar, Paddington, Kingsman: The Secret Service, Fifty Shades of Grey, The Martian.

According to Wikipedia, all these are British films and all have been popular to various degrees in Commonwealth countries. Seriously

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_British_films

Cheers, Neilster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Since, say, 2010...The King's Speech, Sherlock Holmes, Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides, X-Men: First Class, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Anna Karenina, Life of Pi, Skyfall, Les Misérables, The Bling Ring, Man of Steel, The Wolverine, Gravity, Saving Mr. Banks, The Trip to Italy, The Grand Budapest Hotel, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Guardians of the Galaxy, The Imitation Game, The Theory of Everything, Interstellar, Paddington, Kingsman: The Secret Service, Fifty Shades of Grey, The Martian.

According to Wikipedia, all these are British films and all have been popular to various degrees in Commonwealth countries. Seriously

quote:

Guardians of the Galaxy?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Yes. My original point was that the British Empire was the largest the world has ever seen and there are lingering cultural ties. This is perhaps not obvious to our American friends. Cricket anyone? Plucky underdogs battling menacing Nazis is a universally popular theme anyway.

Meh. Were that central premise true, British global 'cultural ties' to cinema would still be meaningful. What was the last British movie that was popularized in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, En Zed, Ozz or Canada? Seriously.

Or do you think this ephemeral cultural touchstone of which you speak is exclusively relegated to British military films involving non-American audiences? Because I don't see it. Obvious or subtle, I just don't see a universality to British-focused films.

Since, say, 2010...The King's Speech, Sherlock Holmes, Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides, X-Men: First Class, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Anna Karenina, Life of Pi, Skyfall, Les Misérables, The Bling Ring, Man of Steel, The Wolverine, Gravity, Saving Mr. Banks, The Trip to Italy, The Grand Budapest Hotel, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Guardians of the Galaxy, The Imitation Game, The Theory of Everything, Interstellar, Paddington, Kingsman: The Secret Service, Fifty Shades of Grey, The Martian.

According to Wikipedia, all these are British films and all have been popular to various degrees in Commonwealth countries. Seriously

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_British_films

Cheers, Neilster

Not to put too fine a point on it, but your list includes a majority of films that were decidedly non-British in origin.

Sure, there may have been sound editing or some green screen contributions from a special effects studio in the UK, but that doesn't make a British film, except by the loosest definitions. Per the Wiki: This article fully lists all films, including short films that have a release date in that year and which were at least partly made by the United Kingdom.

Take "The Imitation Game" for example. A quintessential piece about Bletchley Park codebreakers. Produced by...a FRENCH company (StudioCanal). Directed by a Norwegian, written by an American. The film's Oscar for Best Original Score? By a FRENCHMAN. International distribution rights largely held by Weinstein Brothers distribution (American) and Warner Brothers (American).

True, Cumberbatch, Kinghtly and Goode are English headline actors. But, other than being shot partially in the UK, I'm not seeing much of a UK focus here. About this movie about Bletchley bleedin' Park.

In general, the UK does not punch above its weight regarding international film production. Yes, the BBC have made or produced or co-produced some fine films. But to say that the British Empire of old=current societal ties to the UK from abroad= world leading film production is inaccurate.

Even "Dunkirk" was written and directed by an American-Englishman (reverse emphasis mine ), shot on site in France, the Netherlands, United States and the UK with a musical score by a German and distribution by an American company. It's a co-production by the United States, France and the UK. So, this most British of experiences during WWII has to be some multinational conglomerate in order to get international buzz and production value.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Since, say, 2010...The King's Speech, Sherlock Holmes, Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides, X-Men: First Class, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Anna Karenina, Life of Pi, Skyfall, Les Misérables, The Bling Ring, Man of Steel, The Wolverine, Gravity, Saving Mr. Banks, The Trip to Italy, The Grand Budapest Hotel, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Guardians of the Galaxy, The Imitation Game, The Theory of Everything, Interstellar, Paddington, Kingsman: The Secret Service, Fifty Shades of Grey, The Martian.

According to Wikipedia, all these are British films and all have been popular to various degrees in Commonwealth countries. Seriously

Don't mix British produced films and films with British actors with films on British history.

quote:

Guardians of the Galaxy?

Is the raccoon British?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius
Don't mix British produced films and films with British actors with films on British history.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
At the peak of its power, the phrase "the empire on which the sun never sets" was often used to describe the British Empire, because its expanse around the globe meant that the sun was always shining on at least one of its territories".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius
Don't mix British produced films and films with British actors with films on British history.

Makes it difficult to tout your nation's rightful historical heritage (or market same abroad) when you're beholden to another country's film studios to get things done, idnit?

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
The Portuguese had obviously started the whole thing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
The Portuguese had obviously started the whole thing

Uhh...no. The Portuguese were comparative novices at the whole empire thing. Perhaps they were amongst the first Europeans with a concept of hegemonic expansion towards India, but they were hardly the first wannabe power to consider inclusion of the subcontinent in their 'empire dreams'. The Indians themselves beat them to the punch by about about 1600 years!

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
As further evidence that this is not another boring country vs country issue, just look at Pearl Harbor. Now that is really simple. An iconic event that unified American resolve to get into the war and get it won. An American film, largely American stars, American event - no problem right? Here's a film that can be used to teach the kids about WWII. Er no, the film was a freakin' embarrassment to anybody and everybody from the US I have ever spoken to or had an online discussion with. Crass, pathetic, embarrassing dross that was an insult to every veteran, anyone interested in history or indeed any person avec a brain. And as useful in getting across historical heritage as Keeping up with the Kardashians.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
As further evidence that this is not another boring country vs country issue, just look at Pearl Harbor. Now that is really simple. An iconic event that unified American resolve to get into the war and get it won. An American film, largely American stars, American event - no problem right? Here's a film that can be used to teach the kids about WWII. Er no, the film was a freakin' embarrassment to anybody and everybody from the US I have ever spoken to or had an online discussion with. Crass, pathetic, embarrassing dross that was an insult to every veteran, anyone interested in history or indeed any person avec a brain. And as useful in getting across historical heritage as Keeping up with the Kardashians.

Aye. 'Tis true. I would argue the same about our historical heritage being wrapped up in the trappings of our nations's film industry as well. Although we tend to have less 'state-sponsored' or official media than other countries, that does make us more beholden for historical heritage to private entities. They *usually* don't have the heritage thing as a primary rationale for their work, unfortunately.

So the truth about the movie Dunkirk is that it will be made by a consortium of multinational companies with a minority stake controlled by anything British. The fact that it is being internationally marketed (and produced and distributed) makes it likely that some important aspects will be glossed over or redone-perhaps moreso than a film with more 'direct' national control. All in the name of sales and marketability.

Those in this thread stating that they have cause for optimism because of the subject matter or about the British historical importance are casting their lot where they have no reason to do so. Expressions of "it's about time they looked at this underserved area of our history" or expressions of national pride about the subject matter approached are misplaced, if they are felt.

This movie will be produced and distributed by a multinational group. Its distribution and determinants of success or failure will be based upon profitablity. I would hazard a guess that any Battle of Britain remake will be delayed / cancelled if Dunkirk is the dog's breakfast. Just because that's the way these sorts of conglomerates work. They'll bang on that formula until it's no good anymore.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I hadn't realized until recently that Pearl Harbor's love interest-the oh so lovely Kate Beckinsale-was English.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

As further evidence that this is not another boring country vs country issue, just look at Pearl Harbor. Now that is really simple. An iconic event that unified American resolve to get into the war and get it won. An American film, largely American stars, American event - no problem right? Here's a film that can be used to teach the kids about WWII. Er no, the film was a freakin' embarrassment to anybody and everybody from the US I have ever spoken to or had an online discussion with. Crass, pathetic, embarrassing dross that was an insult to every veteran, anyone interested in history or indeed any person avec a brain. And as useful in getting across historical heritage as Keeping up with the Kardashians.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

As further evidence that this is not another boring country vs country issue, just look at Pearl Harbor. Now that is really simple. An iconic event that unified American resolve to get into the war and get it won. An American film, largely American stars, American event - no problem right? Here's a film that can be used to teach the kids about WWII. Er no, the film was a freakin' embarrassment to anybody and everybody from the US I have ever spoken to or had an online discussion with. Crass, pathetic, embarrassing dross that was an insult to every veteran, anyone interested in history or indeed any person avec a brain. And as useful in getting across historical heritage as Keeping up with the Kardashians.

But that had already been done: Tora! Tora! Tora!. Why do it again? Clearly, they were seeking a different path to a blockbuster.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805