RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII War in Europe >> After Action Reports >> RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies)

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RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/23/2018 11:32:05 AM

Sugar

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Since it`s far more different to get to DE 603 and more dangerous, the balance is perfect now.

KZ again chose to go the high risk gamble by taking "All of France", which became more viable by avoiding all diplo trouble related to US- and SU mob.; and he succeeded. But that's not guaranteed in any way, a few turns of bad weather can seriously hurt preparation for Barbarossa, and I doubt he would be able to overextend the forcepool without french plunder, if Algier holds until dec. 40.

In this case the key is to hold Algier instead of Cairo to delay french plunder as long as possible as well as DE 603. Future games will undoubtly find Allies players better prepared to counter. And it`s a very difficult decision for the Axis player to decide if he should go for "All of France"; if he can't achieve 50% leaning of Franco before US comes in and occupying Egypt, Spain will be gone forever.

(in reply to Harrybanana)

Post #: 211

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/23/2018 12:09:50 PM

KorutZelva

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Since it`s far more different to get to DE 603 and more dangerous, the balance is perfect now.

KZ again chose to go the high risk gamble by taking "All of France", which became more viable by avoiding all diplo trouble related to US- and SU mob.; and he succeeded. But that's not guaranteed in any way, a few turns of bad weather can seriously hurt preparation for Barbarossa, and I doubt he would be able to overextend the forcepool without french plunder, if Algier holds until dec. 40.

In this case the key is to hold Algier instead of Cairo to delay french plunder as long as possible as well as DE 603. Future games will undoubtly find Allies players better prepared to counter. And it`s a very difficult decision for the Axis player to decide if he should go for "All of France"; if he can't achieve 50% leaning of Franco before US comes in and occupying Egypt, Spain will be gone forever.

Let me translate for you guys out there, by 'high risk gamble' what Sugar meant is 'well executed strategy to take advantage of the opponent weakness in the area'.

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 7/23/2018 12:10:13 PM >

(in reply to Sugar)

Post #: 212

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/23/2018 12:39:45 PM

Sugar

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No opposition from my side, hehe. I guess "high risk gamble" isn't the right description, it`s a risky strategy, but a strategy at least and not relying on a coinflip. Courageous decision, and well executed!

(in reply to KorutZelva)

Post #: 213

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/23/2018 8:48:46 PM

room

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What are the condition for de 603 to fire already?

I thought I matched them in a game but seems not:

Spain is 80% axis. I control Algers, Paris, Casablanca and Tunis. At war with US and SU already. Also Algers is italian. What parthave I got wrong wrong?

(in reply to Sugar)

Post #: 214

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/23/2018 8:53:26 PM

PvtBenjamin

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Since it`s far more different to get to DE 603 and more dangerous, the balance is perfect now.

KZ again chose to go the high risk gamble by taking "All of France", which became more viable by avoiding all diplo trouble related to US- and SU mob.; and he succeeded. But that's not guaranteed in any way, a few turns of bad weather can seriously hurt preparation for Barbarossa, and I doubt he would be able to overextend the forcepool without french plunder, if Algier holds until dec. 40.

In this case the key is to hold Algier instead of Cairo to delay french plunder as long as possible as well as DE 603. Future games will undoubtly find Allies players better prepared to counter. And it`s a very difficult decision for the Axis player to decide if he should go for "All of France"; if he can't achieve 50% leaning of Franco before US comes in and occupying Egypt, Spain will be gone forever.

Agreed, the DE 603 changes were a major improvement to the game realism & parity. I don't follow the AAR's that closely but it appears that several of the results of recognized players has ended in the Axis winning easily. I tend to agree that the game is close to parity the only issue is the Axis airforce (if played correctly) is completely invincible by late '42 and dominates the game.

If someone has mastered the game that well they probably should win.

Its still very difficult as Axis for new to intermediate players.

_____________________________

(in reply to Sugar)

Post #: 215

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/23/2018 9:01:25 PM

PvtBenjamin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: room

What are the condition for de 603 to fire already?

I thought I matched them in a game but seems not:

Spain is 80% axis. I control Algers, Paris, Casablanca and Tunis. At war with US and SU already. Also Algers is italian. What parthave I got wrong wrong?

Any Allies troops within 5 hexes of Casablanca or Oran? Any Allied troops in France?

_____________________________

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Post #: 216

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/23/2018 9:29:07 PM

room

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Nope none (well maybe a ship is near). DE 603 is percentage based chance to fire no? Maybe I just had 2 unlucky turns.

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)

Post #: 217

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/23/2018 9:39:49 PM

PvtBenjamin

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DE 603 � Germany: Entice Franco to Enter the War? � Event fires: If France has surrendered, Italy has joined the Axis, Spain is neutral but with at least a 30% leaning towards the Axis, Algiers and Casablanca are in Axis hands, with a German unit within 3 hexes of Algiers, and there are no Allied troops in France, or within 5 hexes of Oran or Casablanca.

(30% s/b 60%) If there are NO Allied troops any where in France or within 5 hexes of Casablanca or a GERMAN unit within 3 hexes of Algiers something is wrong.

Your opponent should declare war on Spain and enter thru Gibraltar.

< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 7/23/2018 9:40:48 PM >

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(in reply to room)

Post #: 218

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/23/2018 9:59:20 PM

room

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OK i have an italian unit in algers, is that it? Does german actuamlly means German only?

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Post #: 219

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/23/2018 10:55:53 PM

KorutZelva

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Yepp, has to be Germany. I faced the same thing when I was doing my Italy solo game.

(in reply to room)

Post #: 220

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/24/2018 8:23:50 AM

room

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Planes count as unit?

(in reply to KorutZelva)

Post #: 221

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/24/2018 9:31:08 AM

KorutZelva

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quote:

ORIGINAL: room

Planes count as unit?

ya but it has to be Germany to has to be the 'owner' of Algeria IIRC

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 7/24/2018 10:11:38 AM >

(in reply to room)

Post #: 222

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/24/2018 9:44:53 AM

room

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No it does not... The event fired this turn and Italy is the owner. Only difference wih last turn is a plane I moved to Algers. Lost 3 weeks because of this but I lost the game already anyway so no big harm. Tks for the tips guys

(in reply to KorutZelva)

Post #: 223

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/24/2018 10:07:33 AM

Rannug61

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A question regarding the DE 603: If the Allies hold Casablanca(with a unit) before Algeria has surrendered... will that unit die when Algeria surrenders or will the the unit stay around and prevent the DE 603 to fire. Does it matter if the unit is an air or a ground unit?

I'm the one who is trying to stop room taking over the world

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"En svensk tiger"

(in reply to room)

Post #: 224

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/24/2018 10:12:12 AM

KorutZelva

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rannug61

A question regarding the DE 603: If the Allies hold Casablanca(with a unit) before Algeria has surrendered... will that unit die when Algeria surrenders or will the the unit stay around and prevent the DE 603 to fire. Does it matter if the unit is an air or a ground unit?

I'm the one who is trying to stop room taking over the world

It stays there. Doesn't matter which.

(in reply to Rannug61)

Post #: 225

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/24/2018 10:25:34 AM

PvtBenjamin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rannug61

A question regarding the DE 603: If the Allies hold Casablanca(with a unit) before Algeria has surrendered... will that unit die when Algeria surrenders or will the the unit stay around and prevent the DE 603 to fire. Does it matter if the unit is an air or a ground unit?

I'm the one who is trying to stop room taking over the world

I'd declare war on Spain and transport troops into southern Spain. There is also an open NW port to amphib if I recall. US & USSR are already at war correct.

< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 7/25/2018 12:03:10 AM >

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RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/24/2018 11:28:23 AM

room

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Yeah, don't tip him, he's kicking my butt already

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)

Post #: 227

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/24/2018 11:14:25 PM

KorutZelva

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London is conquered, Churchill is sacked, the allies morale collapse and they contact the Swedish ambassador to tell the Germans they are willing to discuss peace terms.

1000 years of evilness follows.

Thanks for watching.

(in reply to room)

Post #: 228

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/25/2018 7:26:05 AM

LLv34Mika

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Some conclusions:

1st the things I CAN change.
I would switch to a slightly different defense in the east. Not because I know it works, I would love to try out if it works better.

I would play the British a bit more aggressive and go for Tobruk and western towns to delay the DAK. I have to admit that I didn't dare to try it. Chicken... ;)

With R&D everything went pretty well... just the USSR tanks did not make any progress faster than it happened. Facing level 5 tanks with my own tech 3 tanks was a desaster. Same with tech 4 vs 2 (even worse). At least the inf weapons reached tech 2 and 3 pretty soon. It just doesn't make a difference. You need strong tanks to start some really good counter attacks.

What I cold NOT change:

Guys, watch out... this guy owns a weather machine!
My allied air force got destroyed THREE times because of clear skies in winter or early spring. Sure, that happens sometime but getting the first strike three times took away every chance to change the game. I had a little fleet with enough troops ready to occupy parts of France. Of course beating the Luftwaffe was necessary first but I never got the chance. And finally the air superiority was gone (took him three attempts to be on the safe side) and even staying north of Manchester didn't help.

The other thing that broke my neck: Mr Ribbentrop
Sure, we all know Germany will try to get Spain into the war. But the speed was impressive. I can't remember exactly but IIRC it was something like 6 hits in 10 turns. Spain joined so early that the German MPP production was boosted looooooong before Barbarossa. I was able to force Mannerheim to sign my peace terms and even that was not enough.

What was really surprising for me: I made an attempt to liberate Leningrad and even got a tank unit next to the city for two turns. To my VERY big surprise a level 3 tank could not make ONE SINGLE damage to a NOT entrechend AA unit located there. Ok, my national morale was not the best and my HQ was probably not very close but all in all should be a very one sided battle. Or is this game reflecting the multiple ways to use the German 8,8cm gun?

This was my plan to force the Luftwaffe to the east again but if my units don't do any damage there is no need to relocated them.

All in all I think I did not make too many big mistakes. The biggest mistake (in my view) was that KZ let me conquer Finland but if even that does not change the outcome there is not much to blame myself. Especially with Spain on Germany's side so early.

I would have loved to see how the game would have ended with just one turn of clear skies. The complete US and RAF with more than enough HQs and carrier assistance were ready to strike. It would have been no problem to destroy at least five or six air units on ground. I just never got the chance.

I still survived until November 1944! I have seen games ending much much earlier. As it seems it is not so easy to take London from above if there is enough AA cover.

Thanks for the game... again a very interesting thing to see and learn.

_____________________________

"Oderint, dum metuant."

(in reply to KorutZelva)

Post #: 229

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/25/2018 7:53:28 AM

room

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Tank you both for the nice AAR and I believe still quite competitive game

(in reply to LLv34Mika)

Post #: 230

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/25/2018 12:00:26 PM

KorutZelva

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My 2 cents.

Got to admit I lucked out on diplohits. But that's the risk of leaving Algeria wide open for all of France.

After that I knew the Axis economy would be too rich to stop and tried to brute strength my way through the allies. Mika is a better player than his records shows and made me pay on numerous occasion my typical KZ carelessness.

It made me ran out of steam in the middle east and couldn't advance in Persia (other than cutting the supply line) or advance in Saudi Arabia (except to secure the oil field).

I don't understand why Mika didn't operate his 'trapped' finland forces to Petsamo than walked to Murmansk to catch the train there. Was it to protect his conquest/keep a threat on Leningrad? These troops could have been better used around Moscow. Once the finish army has disbanded this area old little strategic value for them.

In retrospect I should have stayed in the west after I caught the allies air force flatfooted and focused on securing London before operating in the East. The Russian were well digged in but where not in a position to threaten my positions there, there was no rush to move my air in the east. I would have saved myself at least half a year worth of peeling the Londonian onion.

i don't think the air war all boiled on to weather, the allies were lagging in tech until very late in the game. In long range for a while and Americans in ground attack weapons (IIRC they were at level 1 for a long time). The western ally also had no answers on land for German tanks. Infantry just won't cut it come 1943+.

(in reply to room)

Post #: 231

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/25/2018 12:12:57 PM

Elessar2

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For the scenario design gang, I think simul turns has to be the watchword going forward. As should giving AT tech to infantry; I'm not sure high level armor should be the unstoppable tsunami that it currently is-it really does totally borker game balance and the quaint notion of combined arms...

Spain should also be a net drain on the Axis income, not a boon, or at least not the huge source of income that it apparently is. Do the Spanish units show up at half strength or such? They should.

< Message edited by Elessar2 -- 7/25/2018 12:16:46 PM >

(in reply to KorutZelva)

Post #: 232

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/25/2018 12:18:29 PM

KorutZelva

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elessar2

For the scenario design gang, I think simul turns has to be the watchword going forward.

Spain should also be a net drain on the Axis income, not a boon, or at least not the huge source of income that it apparently is. Do the Spanish units show up at half strength or such? They should.

Land and air units range from 5 to 8 str. Ships is at 10 str. I'm not gonna dispute that spanish wealth is greatly overstated but making it accurate would probably entail giving possible access to mpp through some other means to compensate.

(in reply to Elessar2)

Post #: 233

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/25/2018 1:01:36 PM

Taxman66

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Spain is a little bonkers in that it is worth more MPP than Italy, and gets to use the German Tech (just like all the German minors). All that and more than a bag of chips because it allows access to the Rock.

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Post #: 234

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/25/2018 1:30:04 PM

KorutZelva

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Spain is a little bonkers in that it is worth more MPP than Italy, and gets to use the German Tech (just like all the German minors). All that and more than a bag of chips because it allows access to the Rock.

Someone should try a mod where Slovakia heads a 'German minors' faction where all additional german minor would join when activated. Give them 0 diplochits and their own separate tech.

Germany would have to get some undefined perks to compensate though (extra income from Molotov-Ribbentrop pack to help with building more Barbarossian units?).

(in reply to Taxman66)

Post #: 235

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/25/2018 1:40:48 PM

LLv34Mika

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Speaking of my forces in Finnland:

I thought about moving them out one or two times...

what I didn't want to realize is how little damage they can do... the other thing was it would have been costy. And these forces were something like an "army in being". They should force you to keep some units there and as you have seen later I could start a little attack there with my tactical bombers. I wanted to join from the North but I was unable to do any damage to the German units located there.

Any idea why I couldn't damage an AA gun with my tanks?

(in reply to KorutZelva)

Post #: 236

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/25/2018 1:50:33 PM

KorutZelva

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LLv34Mika

Speaking of my forces in Finnland:

I thought about moving them out one or two times...

what I didn't want to realize is how little damage they can do... the other thing was it would have been costy. And these forces were something like an "army in being". They should force you to keep some units there and as you have seen later I could start a little attack there with my tactical bombers. I wanted to join from the North but I was unable to do any damage to the German units located there.

Any idea why I couldn't damage an AA gun with my tanks?

Probably mediocre readiness % + German HQ exp granting damage protection + entrenchment + City

(in reply to LLv34Mika)

Post #: 237

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 7/25/2018 5:26:09 PM

KorutZelva

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What about the Rockets Mika?

Their impact seemed marginal. It takes a lot of time to prep them and to hit where they can be useful they sort of need to be close-ish to the front even if they don't have the mobility for it. They were useful to siege Leningrad but I can't think of many hot spots on the map where they would be handy.

(in reply to KorutZelva)

Post #: 238

RE: Tourney AAR KorutZelva (Axis) vs Mika (Allies) - 9/14/2018 3:55:49 PM

LLv34Mika

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Still owe you my feedback about rockets (didn't see it, sorry)

I remember that it was pesting me on several occasions, especially when it comes to supply for a counter offensive but all in all I wouldn't say it is worth the early investments to build and research. Going for some more armies seems to have more punch than that. When the power of rockets is impressive the Germans should be close to victory anyway and for defensive use it is rather useless (only for keeping the supply low... but not low enough).

(in reply to KorutZelva)

Post #: 239

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