Best Jap hvy fighers?

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Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/5/2022 10:01:00 PM

abulbulian

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Trying to determine the best way to fighter off US med and hvy bombers in 1942. Mostly dealing with B-17s, B-25/26s, and some Brit variants as well. What do people suggest?

Thanks

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RE: Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/5/2022 10:04:25 PM

ishtarin

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Ki-45a comes online mid 1942, with PDU on you can get those single engine bombers (in fact all bomber groups) of size 27-36 to upgrade to them for a big PP cost. Some people enjoy the Ki-45c as well for its range and the 20mm, though it's up to you to decide how much you value the two 12.7mms on the 45a. The Ki-102b is a worthy successor, though by that point the Torpedo Peggy makes those bomber groups a lot more valuable.

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RE: Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/5/2022 11:12:17 PM

jdsrae

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I'm a fan of the Ki-45 in 1942 as Oscar, Zero and Tojo seem to be too flimsy to get through the defensive fire.
Whatever you try, even Nicks, be prepared to take losses from the defensive .50 cals.
IJAAF pilots also seem to like flying directly into the teeth of the forward firing B-25/26 guns...

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RE: Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/6/2022 8:16:47 AM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

I'm a fan of the Ki-45 in 1942 as Oscar, Zero and Tojo seem to be too flimsy to get through the defensive fire.
Whatever you try, even Nicks, be prepared to take losses from the defensive .50 cals.
IJAAF pilots also seem to like flying directly into the teeth of the forward firing B-25/26 guns...

Attack bombers are unfortunately very badly modelled in the game when it comes to defensive fire vs fighters. Totally borked.

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RE: Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/6/2022 8:17:33 AM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Trying to determine the best way to fighter off US med and hvy bombers in 1942. Mostly dealing with B-17s, B-25/26s, and some Brit variants as well. What do people suggest?

Thanks

Last version of the George, gun value of 20. That one can down 4Es pretty easily and you can field it in huge numbers early 44 at the latest.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 2/6/2022 8:18:00 AM >

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RE: Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/6/2022 11:58:31 AM

Lowpe

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4E beasts can be hard to down them in 1942...any fighter with a cannon which is primarily Zero. Rufes & Nick work too, & can be a surprise, but you don't have many squadrons of those (for Nicks you can pay PP and convert LB squadrons).

However you can fly lots of planes set to odd altitudes to run interference. Even if they don't show up in the animated replay, their presence will diminish the effectiveness of the bombers. Normally, to avoid your fighter losses, settings are 10% CAP, Altitude 2K or so or 20K and really fighters with slower climbs tend to do better. I will run Petes as night cap at 1k. Of course this tactic doesn't work where the Allies can sweep you.

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RE: Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/8/2022 8:50:18 AM

GetAssista

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In 42 you are not fighting 4Es with fighters (you have essentially none suitable), you are fighting them with attrition - AA, bombing/bombarding their bases, interdicting supply (Es eat a lot). This attrition part remains very important later even when new armored and heavily armed fighters enter the game

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RE: Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/9/2022 2:01:52 AM

Tanaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

In 42 you are not fighting 4Es with fighters (you have essentially none suitable), you are fighting them with attrition - AA, bombing/bombarding their bases, interdicting supply (Es eat a lot). This attrition part remains very important later even when new armored and heavily armed fighters enter the game

Yep the American 4E are the best fighter sweeps the allies have and it can get really frustrating. Make sure your pilots facing them are elite. I noticed LST made this change in his Bottlenecks mod which looks very interesting:

⦁ The accuracy of the .50cal machine-guns on medium and heavy bombers has been halved (new device) � yes, JFB fanboyism alert! But the number of fighters, esp. night-fighters downed by bombers just does not feel right � those bombers are self-escorting as well as the best sweepers the Allies have! My theory for the accuracy change is that - since the number of weapons and fire pulses has not changed - there will be the same amount of �driven away by defensive fire� messages, but less kills than before. The front-facing machine-guns of designated attack bombers remain at original accuracy.

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 2/9/2022 2:03:04 AM >

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RE: Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/9/2022 8:03:46 AM

JanSako

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I am playing a PBEM game with LST's mod.
So far I only had a few run-ins with B-17D's, but anecdotal evidence shows this is working really well. The durability of the B-17 did not change so Zeros still can't shoot them down, but I only lost a small handful of planes outright shot down. The air battles seemed quite long with a number of single and double stars (which shows damage on hit) on both sides and 'unable to close due to defensive fire'.

Bearing in mind that these were NOT fully trained Allied crews (we were still in Dec '41) so we shall see!

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RE: Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/9/2022 3:33:29 PM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanSako

I am playing a PBEM game with LST's mod.
So far I only had a few run-ins with B-17D's, but anecdotal evidence shows this is working really well. The durability of the B-17 did not change so Zeros still can't shoot them down, but I only lost a small handful of planes outright shot down. The air battles seemed quite long with a number of single and double stars (which shows damage on hit) on both sides and 'unable to close due to defensive fire'.

Bearing in mind that these were NOT fully trained Allied crews (we were still in Dec '41) so we shall see!

The -D model of the B-17 never been a real problem for the Japanese as it's undergunned compared to the -E and later models.

It's getting problematic as soon as the B-17E goes in with def skill 70 start to show up. 3:1 kill rate vs Japanese 1E fighters before the George in my games.

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RE: Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/9/2022 9:04:31 PM

JanSako

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quote:

3:1 kill rate vs Japanese 1E fighters before the George in my games.

This in stock or with the LST's Botttlenecks mod? In stock, for sure, that is the 'issue' LST was trying to address.

Bottlenecks does not work against the AI, no idea if anyone has gotten into late '43-'44 in a PBEM game. That would be the real test.

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RE: Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/10/2022 9:26:57 AM

Tanaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanSako

I am playing a PBEM game with LST's mod.
So far I only had a few run-ins with B-17D's, but anecdotal evidence shows this is working really well. The durability of the B-17 did not change so Zeros still can't shoot them down, but I only lost a small handful of planes outright shot down. The air battles seemed quite long with a number of single and double stars (which shows damage on hit) on both sides and 'unable to close due to defensive fire'.

Bearing in mind that these were NOT fully trained Allied crews (we were still in Dec '41) so we shall see!

Nice will probably use Bottlenecks for my next PBEM as well. Will follow your AAR to see how it goes! You do a nice job of introducing the differences in the mod!

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 2/10/2022 9:30:17 AM >

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RE: Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/10/2022 4:11:18 PM

castor troy

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From: Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanSako

quote:

3:1 kill rate vs Japanese 1E fighters before the George in my games.

This in stock or with the LST's Botttlenecks mod? In stock, for sure, that is the 'issue' LST was trying to address.

Bottlenecks does not work against the AI, no idea if anyone has gotten into late '43-'44 in a PBEM game. That would be the real test.

Stock and all mods I know of because Bottlenecks is the only mod I've heard of adressing it.

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RE: Best Jap hvy fighers? - 2/10/2022 8:49:00 PM

JanSako

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How hard is it to set up a 'test' scenario on a small map to see what happens? like 2 islands with airbases, 4E bombers on one, fighters on the other. say mid-to-late'43. Run a turn or 2 H2H & see how combat goes. I never messed with the editor...

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Post #: 14