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RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR

 
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RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 10:07:09 PM   
Jonny_B


Posts: 299
Joined: 5/20/2004
From: Dunnellon, Florida
Status: offline


Not the entire game in real time, only during land combat on a separate tactical screen, on a time generator, and only for battles greater than ????

Just a little interaction, real time always benefits the computer, unless you are still running a Pentium 1.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 31
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 10:09:08 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackwatch_it

There is a 2by3 projesct on hold for the new russian front game:

http://www.2by3games.com/ussr.htm


They damn well better get it off hold...and soon

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Post #: 32
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 10:21:41 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Real time is bad for this type of game.


Real time flow, with order phases every x number of seconds.

ie: Think like this:

I want to order a turn, I signal a turn by raising the right flags. Ships follow my signal. Some don't see the battle orders, things get confusing.

I don't mean real time continuous, just not 24 hour turns

I want to command the fleet, not run the ships. Ships are run by their own commander, with his own strengths and weaknesses. Crew quality determines how the individual ship performs.

Think of Jelly-belly standing on his deck, issuing orders while reports are coming in. You want to live it at the command level, not micromanage it at the nuts and bolts level.


The only semi-"real time" game i've ever liked is the unique system used by Battlefront's "Combat Mission" series.

It's successful because it merges the best aspects of 'real time' and 'turn based' games. During the orders phase you had unlimited time to set your moves, then you hit "go" and here was the BEST part. The program ran the entire combat phase (60 seconds of 'real time') *in the background*. You were then free to "replay" the 60 second combat phase as much as you wanted, from any angle, focusing on any part or vehicle. That way you didn't miss any of the action. You could even rewind...pause, restart.....very flexible.

Still prefer Steel Panther's method.....but CM is pretty damn good as well and their research is superb

< Message edited by Nikademus -- 6/16/2004 8:26:05 PM >

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Post #: 33
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 10:35:53 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

Original: dwesolick
Never played it before, but HPS Simulations (the guys that make Panzer Campaigns) have a tactical PC game based on Jutland. Looks like you can control the entire fleets on either side, etc. Can't vouch whether it's good or not since tactical really isn't my cup of tea.

It's not so good. Primitive graphics, just generic blue or gray ship-shaped (as seen from above, you know? boring...) cutouts on a blue carpet. Torps and shells are moving dots. RT with too many units to handle on your own. The interface is easy enough though, select a ship and move speed and direction dials with the arrow keys. You can leave them in divisions but they will conform to the slowest ship. Detach the damaged ones, and you can speed the others up, but now there's one more unit to micromanage. I understand that the real fun is in playing online, where I believe there is multi-player capability. If you had a managable number of ships that would make things better. I really wanted to like this; it is tough to get excited about driving those cutout ships around though.

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Post #: 34
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 10:52:40 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

I asked about Norm's stuff and got pretty much told the combat routines were at the child level.


Really?

Hmmm... I loved and played TOAW for years... I am 100% sure that he is not begginer....


Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 35
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 11:05:58 PM   
GameTester


Posts: 156
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

I asked about Norm's stuff and got pretty much told the combat routines were at the child level.


Really?

Hmmm... I loved and played TOAW for years... I am 100% sure that he is not begginer....

Leo "Apollo11"


Logistics is at the child level in TOAW, not ground combat.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 36
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 11:12:32 PM   
Crocky


Posts: 417
Joined: 12/4/2001
From: Christchurch New Zealand
Status: offline 		Yep count me in

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Post #: 37
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 11:14:48 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

I asked about Norm's stuff and got pretty much told the combat routines were at the child level.


probably due to that flap a few years back where someone posted an article that showed that despite claims that the game calculated results based on indiv weapons stats, in actuality it just added up all the values and came up with very generalistic combat results. This allowed some anomolies to show up....such as 50mm AT guns being more effective than 75mm (german) and other examples were shown

Caused a big brew ha ha. Supposedly it was fixed in a patch. I never ended up buying TOAW because Steel Panthers and other games tended to take up too much of my time.

Really?

Hmmm... I loved and played TOAW for years... I am 100% sure that he is not begginer....


Leo "Apollo11"


< Message edited by Nikademus -- 6/16/2004 9:15:19 PM >

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Post #: 38
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 11:20:39 PM   
LTCMTS

 

Posts: 300
Joined: 1/6/2003
From: Newnan, GA
Status: offline 		You don't monitor ships in FSP, you monitor divisions of ships. Never had a problem with that. Same for "Action Stations". Sounds like you ought be playing WC-WW2 and WC-WW1. What are you going to do when someone recreates "Jutland" in the "Action Stations" system as a native Win32 app w/a better interface and menus, some better graphics, because the game engine itself couldn't be improved on.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 39
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 11:43:50 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline 		I'm not really interested in land games so my vote would be "no". I'd like to see a tactical game like GG's old "Carrier Strike".

(in reply to LTCMTS)
Post #: 40
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 11:49:17 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		'Action Stations' is the ne plus ultra for exploring/experiencing command/control and tactics in sea enagements...but it falls flat in the "action" dept where the warships themselves are concerned (it did represent listing effects though!)

It pretty much felt like how it was displayed (albeit in crude CGA graphics), that you were in a control room monitoring the battle from afar. I preferred Warship as a result.

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Post #: 41
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 12:21:20 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not really interested in land games so my vote would be "no". I'd like to see a tactical game like GG's old "Carrier Strike

Dito.. real time tcpip? is that right? that would be cool

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 42
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 12:47:26 AM   
barbarrossa


Posts: 359
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: Shangri-La
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I know 2by3 has two other projecsts in the works right now, so im not trying to start anything.
Im just trying to get a headcount here.

The question is...If 2by3 announced today a new WiR...how many would immediatly earmark the money for its purchase?

I will raise my hand and be the first
Thanks in advance for the responses


It would be a most welcome addition to my gaming collection.

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Post #: 43
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 1:37:09 AM   
2Stepper


Posts: 948
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: North Burbs of Omaha
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

I don't know about you guys, but I'd really like to see 2by3 go into some tactical stuff like maybe Jutland. WitP is going to fill my strategic time for a long time to come and WoW is shaping up to be a real fun quick & dirty team game too.

I want Naval Battles at the epic level! A good tactical real time two player Jutland just suits the bill.

Did I mention that Jutland would be good idea?

I miss my GNB days! I miss my Harpoon days! Navy! Navy! Navy!


Actually HPS simulations I think runs those at the moment. That's the only company that I know of that has strictly naval simulators from the first and second world war. I have to agree that the game concept rocks!

As to the idea of a WiE or a world encompassing game? I'm all for it... I don't know if technologically computers are QUITE there yet to handle it, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see such an endeavor within 5yrs... probably less...

I mean if they can get to that point, the options are endless... Course then again, if they DO get to that point we run the risk of never leaving our homes and turning into tubs of lard hard-wired into our computers... <shakes head> ACK!!!!!! I'm already there!!!!

LOL!!! Okay, maybe not QUITE...

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Post #: 44
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 1:43:11 AM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Then we can do away with those pesky keyboards and mouses.
I'm all for it!

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(in reply to 2Stepper)
Post #: 45
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 8:22:52 AM   
yamaslob

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 2/11/2004
Status: offline 		Ask this question in a non-naval game forum and the answer would be many more of yes.

I bought UV and gave it a few tries but never got into it. I attribute the disintrest to the fact that I know nothing of naval combat and the fact that the game seemed to lack direction to me. Planes flew missions every day without my orders and I was not sure what I WAS supposed to be doing. I could never get the feel for it. You could choose the altitude for every squadron but could not direct searches to specific hexes. It seemed wrong to me. Where was the element of suprise sneaking a TF through an area when the enemy somehow flew search missions over an entire circle area? I wanted to enjoy UV and ultimatly WiTP but doubt I will buy it. Too much hands off gaming to me. Do I fly all sqdns. every day? Why were my planes bombing targets I didn't choose? When should I rest them? Just seemed like watching a game instead of playing one. But, like I said prior, a lot probably has to do with the fact that I did not understand what I was supposed to be doing turn by turn.

As to the original question, YES not only would I buy it, I would pre-order it today.

Please remake WiR


Yamaslob

(in reply to kaleun)
Post #: 46
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 8:45:40 AM   
Stavka_lite


Posts: 171
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Tucson
Status: offline 		I would love to see WiR or WiE and would earmark the money and would probably preorder. In the 70's I paid $100+ for SPI's War in the West and War in the East. I would glady pay top dollar for a quality game that covered those theaters.

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Post #: 47
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 9:50:04 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		HPS'Jutland is a ripoff of "Warship" with not much improvement. As far as WIR goes, I wouldn't be interested. Seems there are still some games out there that need to be finished first.

(in reply to dwesolick)
Post #: 48
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 10:46:01 AM   
Sneer


Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline 		HPS production is disappointing as it has some really strange working features.
They did not think about making this game enough time and it' very weak.
And certainly is not worth money they demand

On the other hand there is excellent however not fully finished ( I think it is 90% and operational ) project
It is many times ( without exageratting /as I'm old Beta of this project / better then anything HPS can produce in a few years.
Game covers naval engagements since spanish-US to WWII.

forum
http://forums.delphiforums.com/raiderops/start
gamesite
http://members.tripod.com/hsr_historicalgames/index.html

There is only one problem:
It was designed by a lone wolf during last few years. it is much more accurate and playable then anything I saw before but...
This guy is a little bit weird and he sells it on a club access basis what made the whole project backfired.
it's a pity but excellent engine which makes everybody staying behind is ready. Just add some artwork....

Maybe Matrix should go and talk about engine ???

(in reply to Drex)
Post #: 49
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 11:16:55 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		To the original question I answer a resounding Yes!

With a condition:

We must take advantage of computers to make better games. Just as they have done with UV.

-Information available at the fingertips.

-Combat resolution simple and easy to follow.

-Nothing tedious. There is nothing worse than having to check 100 units in a turn

-Like UV, the game needs to be able to be played either at a simple level or at the complex level loved by the grogs

-

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Post #: 50
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 11:30:36 AM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Drex

HPS'Jutland is a ripoff of "Warship" with not much improvement. As far as WIR goes, I wouldn't be interested. Seems there are still some games out there that need to be finished first.


And it includes the most worthless AI I have ever seen. Everything charges full speed
towards the other side. So the "Grand Fleet" arrives as a bunch of destroyers, followed
by a bunch of CL's, followed by some armoured cruisers, followed by the battleships
with no ASW screen. Not a clue as to what a "fleet" means, or any tactics more invol-
ved than "get into range and start shooting".

(in reply to Drex)
Post #: 51
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 11:56:29 AM   
Hartley


Posts: 255
Joined: 6/2/2003
Status: offline 		Sure, but what is the commercial potential of any wargame not involving US forces ?

Kroger's new game might be an interesting experiment in this regard, considering his reputation.

(in reply to Mike Scholl)
Post #: 52
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 12:16:32 PM   
Subchaser


Posts: 1201
Joined: 11/15/2002
Status: offline 		What I really would like to see next (besides WiR) – Battle for the Atlantic 1941-45. WitP engine suits this project almost perfectly, with WitP/UV experience this project won’t take too much time for r/d… in my opinion.

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Post #: 53
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 12:27:31 PM   
Culiacan Mexico

 

Posts: 8348
Joined: 11/10/2000
From: Bad Windsheim Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I know 2by3 has two other projecsts in the works right now, so im not trying to start anything.
Im just trying to get a headcount here.

The question is...If 2by3 announced today a new WiR...how many would immediatly earmark the money for its purchase?

I will raise my hand and be the first
Thanks in advance for the responses



The Russian Front (1941-1945)

Development of this game is currently on hold



The game will have the following features:


· 10 miles per hex
· Division sized maneuver units (with some brigades/regiments and build up to Soviet Corps)
· German Corps/Army HQ's and Soviet Army/Front HQ's
· Independent Corps/Army battalions to attach to maneuver units
· Air units by group attached to Army/Front HQ's
· Player or computer controlled production
· Losses in individual vehicles and squads
· Detailed yet automatic accounting for support personnel and supplies
· Rules for shifts in initiative
· Historical Commander ratings
· Accounts for troops/vehicles that are disrupted, disabled and fatigued
· Accurately depicts the need for training units before entering combat





http://www.2by3games.com/ussr.htm

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Post #: 54
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 12:30:02 PM   
DoomedMantis


Posts: 1922
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		I bought this and played it for an hour or so before getting bored and havent touched it since. Far to simplistic

Id love to see GNB revived. By far my favorite game of all time.


quote:

ORIGINAL: dwesolick

Never played it before, but HPS Simulations (the guys that make Panzer Campaigns) have a tactical PC game based on Jutland. Looks like you can control the entire fleets on either side, etc. Can't vouch whether it's good or not since tactical really isn't my cup of tea.

Here is the link to their website: hps games


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Post #: 55
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 1:15:02 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
probably due to that flap a few years back where someone posted an article that showed that despite claims that the game calculated results based on indiv weapons stats, in actuality it just added up all the values and came up with very generalistic combat results. This allowed some anomolies to show up....such as 50mm AT guns being more effective than 75mm (german) and other examples were shown

Caused a big brew ha ha. Supposedly it was fixed in a patch.


I remember this as well (it was 50 Tiger tanks vs. 50 jeeps example that stired ghosts) but this was fixed in, I think, 1st patch for original TOAW and never was problem afterwards.

The latest (and greatest) TOAW CoW (Century of Warfare) was very very good game...


Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 56
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 1:47:54 PM   
soeren

 

Posts: 69
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Bayern/Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun

Me too, but then again, I would also buy UV Med.
Now what would be good would be a UV Med+WIR+Western front.
All rolled up in one BIG game


That would be a War In Europe. Throw UV and WIR together and put in the western front and a little bit BTR.

(in reply to kaleun)
Post #: 57
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 2:20:54 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Subchaser

What I really would like to see next (besides WiR) – Battle for the Atlantic 1941-45. WitP engine suits this project almost perfectly,



The UV engine is all about the control of bases. The war in the Atlantic could never be about bases.

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Post #: 58
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 3:05:32 PM   
kev_uk

 

Posts: 288
Joined: 6/5/2004
From: South Wales, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: soeren

quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun

Me too, but then again, I would also buy UV Med.
Now what would be good would be a UV Med+WIR+Western front.
All rolled up in one BIG game


That would be a War In Europe. Throw UV and WIR together and put in the western front and a little bit BTR.



Christ imagine how long plotting a turn would take? BTR became too excessive, each turn taking about 30/45 mins on the big campaign....imagine doing the same for ground forces as well.

The thought of WitP taking around 12hrs to plot the first move is kinda scary as well...

(in reply to soeren)
Post #: 59
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/17/2004 6:47:53 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

I remember this as well (it was 50 Tiger tanks vs. 50 jeeps example that stired ghosts) but this was fixed in, I think, 1st patch for original TOAW and never was problem afterwards.

The latest (and greatest) TOAW CoW (Century of Warfare) was very very good game...



Yep, recall that example now too. It was pretty damning....and IIRC, Norm got pretty darn hot in his reply and defense of the game (but a patch was forthcoming ASAP!)

Maybe someday i'll pick up a copy but i doubt it.....too many wargames, too little time. Still have yet to complete a single scenerio of BoB or BTR......between WitP and Steel Panthers and Combat Mission.......i'm pretty much full in my itinarary

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Post #: 60
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