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RE: What to change ?

 
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RE: What to change ? - 10/15/2005 6:03:56 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		OK: How about a fixed number of combat rounds dependent on the force (or better, formation) proficiency level?

So an elite unit might get a max of 10 rounds, but a militia unit only a couple.

Don't mind me, I'm just brainstorming!

Steve.

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Post #: 91
RE: What to change ? - 10/15/2005 8:33:44 PM   
danst31

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeremy Mac Donald
A fast forward and a faster fast worward would also be nice. I recall once hiding a sneaky move in Erik Nygard's Norway scenario through the simple expediant of making my moves incrementally between moving the planes all over the map. Basically just presuming that my opponent won't notice what I'm doing 'cause his eyes have glazed over from watching the planes rebase.


I've done sneaky stuff in replays before too. I'd manually simulate moving a stack by rail past an area I wanted to covertly reinforce and leave the caboose and one or two cars from the end scattered along the rail line.

(in reply to Jeremy Mac Donald)
Post #: 92
RE: What to change ? - 10/15/2005 9:11:13 PM   
*Lava*


Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeremy Mac Donald

The 'hexy' look was very intentional on Peters part. In fact I would go so far as to submit that getting a more 'boardgame' feel was the original reason the mod was created.


Hi!

That's fine, if you want to "mod" the game, have at it.

But if the dev team starts making radical departures from the original game, they can kiss my money goodbye.

Not trying to be combative here. Just saying I like the game, basically as it is. I'm hoping a great deal of restraint will be exercised by the dev team. I'm interested in an updated TOAW, but if they decide to make a whole new game... that's another matter.

Update the game and fix clear bug issues = guaranteed sale.
Change the game radically = your going to have to make a darn good case why I need to buy another game when I already own 4 TOAW games already.

Ray (alias Lava)

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Post #: 93
RE: What to change ? - 10/15/2005 9:19:33 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeremy Mac Donald

The 'hexy' look was very intentional on Peters part. In fact I would go so far as to submit that getting a more 'boardgame' feel was the original reason the mod was created.


Hi!

That's fine, if you want to "mod" the game, have at it.

But if the dev team starts making radical departures from the original game, they can kiss my money goodbye.

Not trying to be combative here. Just saying I like the game, basically as it is. I'm hoping a great deal of restraint will be exercised by the dev team. I'm interested in an updated TOAW, but if they decide to make a whole new game... that's another matter.

Update the game and fix clear bug issues = guaranteed sale.
Change the game radically = your going to have to make a darn good case why I need to buy another game when I already own 4 TOAW games already.

Ray (alias Lava)


I totally agree with Ray/Lava here. (I usually hate "me too!" posts but here - I made one myself ).

Most of the ideas flying around here are too radical for my taste. I'd take graphic changes/mods as good example - I'll have original game over the mods discussed here ANY time. By all means, keep them as mods, but do not change the game itself, certainly not in the direction of "hexy-board gamey look".

Production is another example of something I would not want to see in game of TOAW scope.

Oleg


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Post #: 94
RE: What to change ? - 10/15/2005 9:27:50 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Me too!

There's been far too much talk about changing the game seven ways from sunday. The ONLY thing I'd want to see done differently is a unit editor.

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Post #: 95
RE: What to change ? - 10/15/2005 10:44:10 PM   
Pippin


Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
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quote:

The ONLY thing I'd want to see done differently is a unit editor.


And hopefully one that works well on XP! :P


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Post #: 96
RE: What to change ? - 10/16/2005 1:34:10 AM   
Jeremy Mac Donald

 

Posts: 765
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From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko
I totally agree with Ray/Lava here. (I usually hate "me too!" posts but here - I made one myself ).

Most of the ideas flying around here are too radical for my taste. I'd take graphic changes/mods as good example - I'll have original game over the mods discussed here ANY time. By all means, keep them as mods, but do not change the game itself, certainly not in the direction of "hexy-board gamey look".

Production is another example of something I would not want to see in game of TOAW scope.

Oleg

OK I can comprehend the reasoning behind not wanting the graphical look to change. I don't neccisarly agree but I see your point.

In terms of production though I don't follow. Presuming of course that production is a totally added feature that could be implemented by a scenario designer or not at the designers discretion. In that case we simply have the same product with more features. All to the good in my book.

< Message edited by Jeremy Mac Donald -- 10/16/2005 1:35:11 AM >

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Post #: 97
RE: What to change ? - 10/16/2005 1:37:11 AM   
Jeremy Mac Donald

 

Posts: 765
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From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Me too!

There's been far too much talk about changing the game seven ways from sunday. The ONLY thing I'd want to see done differently is a unit editor.

Thats more or less a yawner in my book - we have one, its called Bioeditor.

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Necesse est multos timeat quem multi timent

"He whom many fear, fears many"

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Post #: 98
RE: What to change ? - 10/16/2005 1:50:53 AM   
DandricSturm


Posts: 492
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Me too!

There's been far too much talk about changing the game seven ways from sunday. The ONLY thing I'd want to see done differently is a unit editor.


Far too much talk of radical changes for me too. Fix the bugs, tweak a few things and you still have probably the best wargame ever. Make wholesale changes to everything and you're liable to end up with trash.

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Post #: 99
RE: What to change ? - 10/16/2005 5:18:31 AM   
Mantis


Posts: 127
Joined: 9/10/2000
From: Edmonton, Canada
Status: offline 		Keep in mind that the way most of these changes are being discussed are as basic options. On or Off. I don't see how that could be a 'minus' for anyone. Many of these suggestions are only ways of opening the game up to more players. As an example, I consider the discussion on combat rounds to be a very interesting one. I'm curious to see how many in the community would like to see the ability for the designer/player to 'fix' the amount of combat rounds, add in these 'formation only' turn ends, etc. And as a player who once managed 28 rounds from a single turn, this discussion doesn't really 'involve' me whatsoever - I'm quite happy the way things are. If this feature is included, I can simply turn it off.

Ho harm, no foul!

The mod shot I posted was not a request to change the graphics. It was in response to someone saying they didn't like the current look, and was an attempt to show some of what is available to players at the various forums and sites that support TOAW.


(in reply to DandricSturm)
Post #: 100
RE: What to change ? - 10/16/2005 7:22:32 AM   
Crimguy


Posts: 1409
Joined: 8/15/2003
From: Cave Creek, AZ
Status: offline 		I re-installed TOAW today. It's still a great game

However, the UI needs updating. The button layout is not easy to work with as is. The courier font is not to my taste, but readable.

In short, I strongly urge the devs to look at the interface in light of the fact that the space on the screen is much bigger in 2005 than it was in 1998, and there is much more room to play with. The buttons need to be bigger, or give the user the choice of two icon sizes. I think tooltips would supplement the info bar at the bottom nicely. All the information that is shown by clicking on the counters in the top right could be in the space along the right side - it's wasted right now. The buttons could be moved to the top and organized with spacers, a la HPS games.

I like the ability to see as much of the map as possible. I like the idea of clicking on a unit, and having an info pane slide into view from the side or bottom. This would be nice in this game.

I think the maps are terrific as is, but could use a bump to 16 or 32 bit. I'm surprised how well they've stood the test of time.

I know many people here are happy with things as they are in the interface, but remember that this could be an opportunity to make it better. Please, no rubber stamps because its what you're used to - ask what could be improved.

Did I mention that a face-lift may help sales? Before anyone says it's just worthless eye-candy, remember that the more sales, the more money, the more development. This shouldn't be a surprise for anyone here, since TOAW is one of the best selling turn-based titles in history. . .

Just my 2 kopeks. Now, as I step off my pew . . .

(in reply to Mantis)
Post #: 101
RE: What to change ? - 10/16/2005 4:28:18 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeremy Mac Donald

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Me too!

There's been far too much talk about changing the game seven ways from sunday. The ONLY thing I'd want to see done differently is a unit editor.

Thats more or less a yawner in my book - we have one, its called Bioeditor.

Not a very 'clean' option - it means hacking the .exe, never a good idea in my experience.

This is why we need the database opened up, so we don't have to edit the .exe file!

Steve.

_____________________________

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Post #: 102
RE: What to change ? - 10/16/2005 8:53:08 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava
But if the dev team starts making radical departures from the original game, they can kiss my money goodbye.


It couldn't hurt to have several display options- especially where the graphical mods already exist. Just so long as Matrix doesn't waste time with this rather than fixing bugs and adding features.

FWIW, I use the original graphics. I prefer them to all of the mods I've seen.

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"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

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Post #: 103
RE: What to change ? - 10/16/2005 8:54:32 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
There's been far too much talk about changing the game seven ways from sunday. The ONLY thing I'd want to see done differently is a unit editor.


...Are you SURE? There are a lot of things which could be fixed without changing the 'feel' of TOAW, but making it a much better game.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

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Post #: 104
RE: What to change ? - 10/16/2005 8:58:28 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix
Not a very 'clean' option - it means hacking the .exe, never a good idea in my experience.


Well, you create a new .exe. So if anything were to go wrong, you can always go back. What's more, nothing ever has gone wrong with the BioEd. Not in my experience.

That being said, it would be neat if an equipment editor could be incorporated into the game.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to steveh11Matrix)
Post #: 105
RE: What to change ? - 10/16/2005 11:13:37 PM   
LewFisher


Posts: 66
Joined: 8/18/2003
From: Reno, Nevada
Status: offline 		I think TOW is one of the best computer games ever published. I agree, there are certain tactics that can make it somewhat gamey. Personally, I play the game from the perspective as overall general and usually don't try to maximize impulses or use other tactics that seem unrealistic but would improve my results. However, TOW has survived and probably somewhat due to the indeph play it allows. I realize I would never beat top players so I play guys at my level and feel satified with the results.

In a similar vein, years ago I played on a ladder using Talonsoft's Battleground system. As it was a simple I go - you go system, I felt I could hold my own with anyone. I then played a top player whose attacks always came out perfect. I swear, he somehow hacked the system to change the results (or am I just paranoid).

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Post #: 106
RE: What to change ? - 10/16/2005 11:17:02 PM   
danst31

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mantis
The mod shot I posted was not a request to change the graphics. It was in response to someone saying they didn't like the current look, and was an attempt to show some of what is available to players at the various forums and sites that support TOAW.


Honestly I think the graphics could use a higher contrast update myself. I'm also using the same mod as you, and think it's a very good step in the right direction. I disagree it's designer about the merits of flat tile based terrain vs smooth contoured effects. There's no reason there couldn't be multiple terrain sets provided ingame for the user to choose between however.


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He who writes this book in which hate is not hidden was formerly a pacifist... For him no disillusionment was ever greater or more sudden. It struck him with such violence that he thought himself no longer the same man. And yet, as it seems to him that

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Post #: 107
RE: What to change ? - 10/17/2005 7:32:57 AM   
Chuck2


Posts: 830
Joined: 10/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

FWIW, I use the original graphics. I prefer them to all of the mods I've seen.


I use the originals too.

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Post #: 108
RE: What to change ? - 10/17/2005 5:04:38 PM   
Mantis


Posts: 127
Joined: 9/10/2000
From: Edmonton, Canada
Status: offline 		In 5 years or more of playing this, I've never added in a Mod until just this past week. I like the original tile set, but sometimes a change is good.

(in reply to Chuck2)
Post #: 109
RE: What to change ? - 10/17/2005 6:09:28 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mantis

I think I mentioned this elsewhere, but there was a problem when they tried to merge his new account with his old, inactive one. It accidentally wiped all his posts.


Thanks, Mantis.

For continuity purposes, this is my old, formerly inactive account.

Ben.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Mantis)
Post #: 110
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