SPWAW H2H Mod - The ultimate experience in H2H wargaming...

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SPWAW H2H Mod - The ultimate experience in H2H wargamin... - 4/7/2002 10:25:58 PM

Fabio Prado

Posts: 503
Joined: 5/23/2000
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Ladies and Gentlemen!

The ARMOR Site is proud to announce the release of the first true mod for SPWAW: Panzer Leo's H2H Mod for SPWAW!:D

[IMG]http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/SPWAW_H2H_Mod/H2H-Banner-2.gif[/IMG]

This is a new version based on v7.1, not just a set of OOBs. It was primarely made for PBEM or Online/Hotseat play.
The changes list is so extense that it cannot be adequately commented in this brief announcement, and I am sure that Panzer Leo (aka: Joerg Loewenstein) will quickly jump in and add a LOT on this subject in this thread.
Courious? Just go to the Panzer Leo's H2H Mod page, read all about it and download this carefully crafted Mod. You can also access the H2H mod from The ARMOR Site's SPWAW home page, or via The ARMOR Site's SPWAW Downloads page. Of course, you can just click on the image above, too... ;)

I am sure all who enjoy H2H battles will be delighted with the Panzer Leo's H2H Mod!

Enjoy, and thank you all for your support!:)

Fab

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Post #: 1

- 4/7/2002 10:55:52 PM

Supervisor

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Thanks Fabio, Bing and I were looking to start one up today. With this being new neither one of use will have any advantage over the other.

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Post #: 2

- 4/7/2002 11:15:00 PM

Leto II

Posts: 46
Joined: 10/20/2001
From: Graz, Austria
Status: offline

It looks really interesting, I wouldn't mind trying it either, although I have never played PBEM before.

If there is anyone else who would want to give it a try, send me a message at [email]mentant98@hotmail.com[/email]. As I said, it would be my first PBEM game, so try not to destroy me too quickly. :)

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 3

- 4/7/2002 11:43:07 PM

MacCready

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: USA
Status: offline

I think it would be best to install SPWAW 7.1 again in another directory,MG/SteelPanthersWorldatWar/

and install the MOD to that,so you won't have to keep moving files around.

That way you can play either version anytime,without hassle.

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 4

- 4/8/2002 12:04:40 AM

Supervisor

Posts: 5166
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Very good point, remember though that another installation SPWAW will take up about 700mb of space with the new sounds.

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Post #: 5

- 4/8/2002 12:08:40 AM

MacCready

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: USA
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I've got a 40 gig harddrive,what me worry?

Don't forget to create a new shortcut pointing to the Mod's mech.exe

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 6

- 4/8/2002 2:29:17 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
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Hi guys !

It's a good idea to keep a regular version 7.1 (well since you have enough space, ofcourse).
The H2H module is overwriting things like the mech.exe and lots of icons (shps) and wav files.
So be sure to have a backup...

If there should be folks, that hesitate to download H2H, because they never play SP vs human opponents, don't mind...
It was intended for use as a H2H version, but does not make any other gameplay impossible and I think there's something in the module for everyone...
Up to now, there're no known problems with long campaigns and the H2H scenarios included in the package should work just like normal scenarios.
Just do not play scenarios made for v7.1 or else with H2H, as with the Germans there will always be problems, for the other nations sometimes...

I hope some of our scenario design gurus will find H2H worthy enough to create some scenarios for it, or just apply old ones to this new version...

In case you should be looking for someone to test H2H with, don't hesitate to throw a post in here...I'm sure you'll find enough guys who would like to battle you...

...so have fun and once again a big thanks to Fabio !

_____________________________

[URL=http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/spwaw_h2h_modrework.php] [IMG]http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/PzLeos-H2H-Title-1.jpg[/IMG] [/URL]

Mir nach, ich folge euch !

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 7

- 4/8/2002 2:47:37 AM

Galka

Posts: 129
Joined: 4/30/2000
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]
If there should be folks, that hesitate to download H2H, because they never play SP vs human opponents, don't mind...
It was intended for use as a H2H version, but does not make any other gameplay impossible and I think there's something in the module for everyone...

...so have fun and once again a big thanks to Fabio ! [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, Thanks. There are a lot of Improvements noted on the Forum addressed with this Version. I'd like to play one or two veteran PBEMers if at all possible. Any takers?

_____________________________

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(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 8

- 4/8/2002 5:31:54 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
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From: Braunschweig/Germany
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To give you a better impression of what is different in H2H compared to v7.1 here's part 1 of a changes list:

- anti aircraft arty redone (pricing and HE kill for multi barrels)

- anti tank rifles have HE ammo (usually 20 shots)

- infantry AT weapons are usable against infantry (PIAT, PzFaust,
PzSchreck)

- Divebomber class (chances to hit for bombs on these
planes are increased)

- Field Command Posts (work like the normal Command Posts
to stiffen up defences)

- complete APCR ammo load revision

- Personnel Shelter (shelter from arty for up to 13 men)

- different Exp/Mor/Leadership ratings for the nations and years

- rate of fire for AT and tank guns increased by 1, to give lower
Exp crews a chance to hit something...

- completely redone German OOB and Luftwaffe units in
Norway OOB from '41 on

- decreased number of Molotovs in squads (except Finnish)

...to be continued :D

BTW, did I already mention, that all units have original b/w pics to give the outlook of H2H a "realistic" flavour ? :)

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Post #: 9

- 4/8/2002 10:24:56 AM

JimPY

Posts: 39
Joined: 5/11/2001
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

Your list of features for the H2H mentions converting other SPWAW scenarios to the H2H mod in the editor. Could you please inform us about how to do this task. I thank you for the hard work and I intend to try H2H.

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Post #: 10

- 4/8/2002 10:55:00 AM

Mojo

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From: Portland, Oregon USA
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo
[B]To give you a better impression of what is different in H2H compared to v7.1 here's part 1 of a changes list:.....

- decreased number of Molotovs in squads (except Finnish)... [/B][/QUOTE]

Ah those crazy Finns! What else would you do with all the empty Koskenkorva bottles?

Kippis:D

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 11

- 4/8/2002 2:07:34 PM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
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From: Braunschweig/Germany
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JimPY
[B]Your list of features for the H2H mentions converting other SPWAW scenarios to the H2H mod in the editor. Could you please inform us about how to do this task. I thank you for the hard work and I intend to try H2H. [/B][/QUOTE]

The main problem with H2H are some new units and especially in the German case, that units moved around in the slots. This causes weird icons, pics and unit values in scenarios vor v7.1 (or any one below).
To change a scenario to H2H, just go into the scenario EDITOR in of the game itself, load your desired scenario and go to the DEPLOY.
Then check the units of the nation, if they seem right, or have something weird (most often it's very obvious). If they don't look right, open the "change current unit to a different type" (the "R" button) and pick the intended unit from the list there.
The units on the list are all H2H units and that's how you can convert any unit in any scenario to it's H2H equivalent...

Ofcourse you than will know the setup of forces of this scenario, so it's a good idea to make a scenario for a friend and vice versa...

How it looks, when you forget to change a unit, can be seen in the scenario "Village life" (and probably others, too :rolleyes: ). I forgot to change a SS MG that is riding on a Tiger to a H2H unit...it shows up as a infantry AT unit...:D

hope that helps, Joerg

(BTW it's possible to make whole campaigns playable with H2H by the method above. You "just" have to rename the files in the campaign folder of SPWAW to "scen....dat" and so on and change them in the editor like normal scenarios. After that you simply rename than and put them back into the campaign folder...but it's quite some work...;) )

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Post #: 12

- 4/8/2002 2:18:57 PM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
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From: Braunschweig/Germany
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mojo
[B]

Ah those crazy Finns! What else would you do with all the empty Koskenkorva bottles?

Kippis:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Yep...

In H2H, I assume that a Molotov assault is usually more than one thrown bottle and that they were not as wide spread as in v7.1.
So a full ammo load of Molotovs will usually be good for to two attacks (1 with reduced ammo on).
I always found it a bit strange to have Russians charging towards you trenches with Molotovs in their pouches (at least so many... :D)

Well, and why the Finns kept most of their bottles...no more comment needed...:D

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Post #: 13

- 4/8/2002 6:07:35 PM

AJVa

Posts: 69
Joined: 1/17/2001
From: SF
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mojo
[B]

Ah those crazy Finns! What else would you do with all the empty Koskenkorva bottles?

Kippis:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Recycling at it's best.:D :cool:

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 14

- 4/9/2002 5:12:59 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

Time for changes part 2:

[list]

reworked Allied landing crafts (mainly corrected icons)

US paratroopers with 1919A4/6 MG in the squad

US PzSchreck and PzFaust in winter 44/45

Russian Guards Hvy tank formation

four different T-34 icons

reworked rocket artillery (ROF and costs)

"burning hexes" are burning a bit less (flame icons smaller)

new entrenchement graphics (infantry pits and few sand bags)

uncommon German units banned to Czech OOB
[/list]

...don't worry, enough left for another sequel... :D

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Post #: 15

- 4/9/2002 5:49:11 AM

Svennemir

Posts: 542
Joined: 11/2/2001
From: Denmark
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I downloaded it yesterday and have scanned through the OOBs. This rules! All the things I've been "less happy" about in 7.1 have been fixed. Pricing has changed so certain strange things have been fixed (for example T-34m.43 more expensive than T-34Em.42 in 7.1), and Panzer IV tanks also seem to have a somewhat more reasonable price now.

I haven't tried all this in action yet but will soon get a few PBEMS running I guess :) :D

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Post #: 16

- 4/10/2002 1:39:24 AM

Panzer Leo

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From: Braunschweig/Germany
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Svennemir
[B]I downloaded it yesterday and have scanned through the OOBs. This rules! All the things I've been "less happy" about in 7.1 have been fixed. Pricing has changed so certain strange things have been fixed (for example T-34m.43 more expensive than T-34Em.42 in 7.1), and Panzer IV tanks also seem to have a somewhat more reasonable price now.

[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm glad you noticed it...I took quite some ideas from your posts on the forum... :D

...and changes part 3:

[list]

aircraft rockets now fired as set of 2 and reduced hit chances

white roofed winter buildings from Rockin' Harry

no double appearance of German units because of camo

improved Finnish OOB (I think it was from Jurkko ?,sorry when I mixed it up)

additions from Warhorse's improved Minor Axis OOBs

reduced amount of PIAT available for UK standard infantry

Wurfrahmen only available in PzPionier formation

reworked German weapons availability by date (esp. PzFausts)

PzFaust ranges reduced (PzFaust 100 = 2)

new sounds (a lot taken from Colonel Blitz's excellent set)
[/list]

have fun :)

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Post #: 17

- 4/10/2002 6:59:17 AM

Svennemir

Posts: 542
Joined: 11/2/2001
From: Denmark
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[QUOTE]I'm glad you noticed it...I took quite some ideas from your posts on the forum... [/QUOTE]

Yay! I'm very glad to hear that! :D

I was thinking... will there be patches for H2H fixing misc errors/other issues? I would sure be ready to come up with suggestions if any are needed!

And a question... are the prices determined by the "Spreadsheet from H***", or are some of them changed manually?

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 18

- 4/10/2002 2:14:39 PM

Panzer Leo

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From: Braunschweig/Germany
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Svennemir
[B]

I was thinking... will there be patches for H2H fixing misc errors/other issues? I would sure be ready to come up with suggestions if any are needed!

And a question... are the prices determined by the "Spreadsheet from H***", or are some of them changed manually? [/B][/QUOTE]

In case there should be some fatal errors (and usually there are;)) , or changes that negatively effect game play, I will note all made suggestions to eliminate them.
A few changes I made are a bit of "experimental" type and can turn out as not so wisely chosen...
Than, ofcourse I would bring out a updated set of H2H OOBs.
After some folks tried out the module either as real H2H game or against the AI with the attached scenarios, we probably should start a thread of what you liked and what not...there's always room for improvement...

Many of the prices have been changed manually. In H2H prices for the same unit do not have to be exactly the same in different nations (although they most often are).
Sometimes I used prices to add some national advantage or disadvantage. This way it could be, that a nation, that is producing a tank pays a lower price than a nation, that has this tank as a captured vehicle with limited numbers (because it's special there, it's more expensive).
Another thing is Arty. It sometimes depends a lot on the nation to field it. 8in Btrys a pretty expensive in H2H, but the US pays I think 20 points less than their UK comrades and also has 10 rounds ammo per gun more...it's a national advantage you usually find out after some playing and smart players will use it :D

Another hint: Germany and some minor Axis have lower prices for horses/horse drawn vehicles, because they relied more on them than others...it now makes really sense to think about them as a transport...;)

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Post #: 19

- 4/10/2002 7:26:15 PM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
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From: Portsmouth RI
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I took a look and have to say this is a very fine piece of work!

Its heartening to see the OOB developers producing such high quality work!

Many still seem to be put off by the idea of managing multiple OOBs

http://jphz.tripod.com/oobman/oobpage.htm

is an excellent tool to help manage multiple OOBs and the editing of multiple OOBs!

Many thanks to Jerry Heintz for his work on it!

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 20

- 4/10/2002 10:04:27 PM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
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From: Portsmouth RI
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Bumpin the ggod stuff to the top!!

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Post #: 21

Good Stuff - 4/10/2002 10:09:59 PM

Supervisor

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Well if Paul thinks it's good stuff, lets put a sticky on it for a while!:p

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Post #: 22

- 4/11/2002 4:59:34 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
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From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

Thanks Paul, for your kind words...and gmenfan for making this thread a sticky ! :)

I hope noone is hesitating now to at leats give it a try... :D

...another day, another set of changes, number 4:

[list]

machine guns reevaluated (large caliber MGs have reduced HE)

new icons for German vehicles (Panther, Elefant, Pz IV...)

US AT-rifle grenade common for infantry squads

US infantry platoon and company HQ units

Bazooka penetration reduced to 105 (that makes for 120-125mm in the game)

German 37mm AT gun reduced in range (performence esp. APCR was too high at longer ranges)

availability of Russian ATRs in formations reset (from early '42)

Russian PTRS AT rifle added

German MGs raised HE, reduced ammo, reduced men (3) - except for special MG squad in some elite formations, raised to (9)
[/list]

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Post #: 23

H2H Mod...Useable for Single Player?? - 4/11/2002 6:42:46 AM

Tazman85

Posts: 12
Joined: 11/8/2000
From: Colwyn Bay,Wales,U.K.
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Just wondering if this Mod...Which I will get round to downloading(Oh for DSL)..Is useable in a single player game/campaign?Does it enhance modify standard OOBs or will it screw up playability of such...Thanks

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Post #: 24

- 4/11/2002 7:26:04 AM

Svennemir

Posts: 542
Joined: 11/2/2001
From: Denmark
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I guess it is playable, but the AI won't know how to use e.g. the unarmed bunkers - which might create some trouble.

Most of the units still work the same way, so I guess the problem won't be all that serious.

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Post #: 25

- 4/11/2002 10:59:15 PM

Gallo Rojo

Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
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OOB and other changes sounds very interesting ...

But ... what I don't understand is:

What does v.H2H have that make it special for pbem/on line/hot seat play?

Why exactly is v.H2H better than v.7.1 for human vs. human playing?

Is there something in the mech.exe that improves pbem/on line/hot seat performance?

Does it fix a bug or a problem -I read that on v.71 on line play is more unstable than in previous version? (I never have played on line so forgive me if I'm wrong about that)

Any improvement in the VCR?

:confused:

Cheers
Gallo

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Post #: 26

Re: H2H Mod...Useable for Single Player?? - 4/12/2002 4:40:35 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
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From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tazman85
[B]Just wondering if this Mod...Which I will get round to downloading(Oh for DSL)..Is useable in a single player game/campaign?Does it enhance modify standard OOBs or will it screw up playability of such...Thanks [/B][/QUOTE]

Svennemir said almost everything on this...units like the bunkers, ammo boxes and the Field Command Posts might be used wrong by the AI.
Otherwise there shouldn't be any problems.
If you play scenarios, that were made for H2H (or even whole campaigns), there won't be any problems at all in single player mode...

[B]The MC Watchtower should be playable with H2H[/B]
Changes to the Marines I made are not likely to cause problems.
MCs with German troops are not usable with H2H OOBs.

[QUOTE]What does v.H2H have that make it special for pbem/on line/hot seat play?

Why exactly is v.H2H better than v.7.1 for human vs. human playing?

Is there something in the mech.exe that improves pbem/on line/hot seat performance?

Does it fix a bug or a problem -I read that on v.71 on line play is more unstable than in previous version? (I never have played on line so forgive me if I'm wrong about that)

Any improvement in the VCR?

[/QUOTE]

There're no bugfixes or coding changes to the mech.exe in H2H. The only changes to the mech.exe are some default values for exp/mor and such...
The reason, why I called it H2H is simply, because I added units, that are only usable by human players.
Also I put in a lot of small things (like some different prices to add national advantages/disadvantages), the AI cannot make use of.
One very important, tactical feature is, that you can build up stronger defensive positions now.
You have Ammo Boxes, Personnel Shelters and most important the Field CPs.
All this used by a player with a human brain really stiffens up your defense and adds a lot of fun to the game.
Many Players complained about the excessive use of Arty, that disrupts game play.
The Field CPs don't save you from taking casualties, but your troops will stay in the trenches and fight, when the enemy charges...a big difference...(like the normal Command Post, Field CPs lower suppression within 6 hexes).
Also, that I moved many Luftwaffe units to the Norway OOB, to get room for German infantry units is something only a human player can use...they are regular and quite common units and noone should hesitate to use them...

This and many other small things make this a module, that was intended for H2H play, but it does not disrupt any other sort of play like single games.

hope that helps... :)

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Post #: 27

- 4/12/2002 4:50:16 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
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From: Braunschweig/Germany
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Some additional things, you should know:

H2H resets your preferences. It is recommended to play H2H with 130% inf toughness and 130% Arty vs Soft.

If the inf toughness is not set to 130%, esp. multibarrelled AA guns will cause too much casualties...
The Arty should be set to 130%, to compensate the inf toughness and keep the good casualty results from the regular v7.1

It might be quite often, that you have two tanks, that have the same name and values, but a different pricing and rarity (some AT-guns also).
The more expensive one is always that same type of tank with APCR ammo.

Most Inf-AT rockets are now usable against infantry. To avoid the shots from being "drained" by enemy infantry (esp. in the case of PzFausts), turn the weapon "off" in the unit menue.
This unit will still use the rockets to make assaults, but will not fire at infantry targets.

have fun...

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Post #: 28

- 4/12/2002 6:25:53 AM

Svennemir

Posts: 542
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From: Denmark
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Is the H2H mech.exe identical to the 7.1 mech.exe in ALL other aspects than def. training values?

I have seen that units with heavy caliber rounds like ISU-152, sIG33 etc. don't seem to be quite so lethal anymore.

Does this have to do with the 130%/130%?

This change in rating also seems to make infantry less vulnerable to other infantry weapons. Especially SMGs seem to have suffered.

Please note that this comment is based on my experiences so far, and those are not yet many!

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 29

- 4/12/2002 7:10:49 PM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
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From: Braunschweig/Germany
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Svennemir
[B]Is the H2H mech.exe identical to the 7.1 mech.exe in ALL other aspects than def. training values?

I have seen that units with heavy caliber rounds like ISU-152, sIG33 etc. don't seem to be quite so lethal anymore.

Does this have to do with the 130%/130%?

This change in rating also seems to make infantry less vulnerable to other infantry weapons. Especially SMGs seem to have suffered.

Please note that this comment is based on my experiences so far, and those are not yet many! [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, it is completely identical with v7.1 in all other aspects.
That some weapons have lost a bit lethality is indeed because of the 130% inf toughness. If you restore it to 100%, you will have the same results as in v7.1.
In my opinion one problem with v7.1 is, that with the new splash damage weapons with higher HE kill became more lethal. That works excellent for indirect Arty fire, but weapons starting at the level of better machine guns were causing also additional damage.
Before they felt very good to me in the amount of damage they were inflicting on infantry, but with the new splash, they tend to be overpowered.
You can try it out and test a MG42 with 100% toughness and will see, that it becomes very deadly (too deadly).
If you then test the 20mm FlaKVierling, you will see it is almost ever a one shot squad disintegrator...

So I do only recommend to play at 130% inf toughness, but you can change it to whatever feels realistic for you...it then will be exactly the v7.1 results, you're used to...

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Post #: 30