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Surviving crews - live and let live, or die?

 
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Surviving crews - live and let live, or die? - 11/2/2000 9:56:00 PM   
molset

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 7/16/2000
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Gentlemen! During the course of the Utha to Rhine campaign I began wondering about a thing. I get a lot of kills from finishing of bailed out crews. In fact I make a hobby out of this, since its worth its share towards increasing experience. Thats how my recon teams get their thrills and kills! The AI dont seem to be as cruel. In fact it behaves more chivalrius along the line "having survived the ordeal a burning tank inferno, who am I to play good". Just a question: Whats the practice of fellow warriors ot there? I suppose "Ol blood and Guts" would strip me of all rank for even think morals of this sort. Regards Molset "Jakki er ekki frakki nema sidur se"

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Post #: 1
- 11/2/2000 10:26:00 PM   
Pack Rat

 

Posts: 594
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: north central Pennsylvania USA
Status: offline 		Kill em,this is but a game. ------------------ Good hunting, Pack Rat

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PR

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 2
- 11/2/2000 10:33:00 PM   
David F. Wall

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: Waltham, MA, USA
Status: offline 		I shoot at them till they run away, and shoot at them some more if they get heroic. Otherwise, they're low priority targets, and only get shot at if the hit chance is good and there's nothing else around. DFW

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(in reply to molset)
Post #: 3
- 11/2/2000 10:36:00 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		i cannot tell a lie. I often slaughter all the crews within range. But here's where the guilt really comes in....my main motivation is because it makes the battlefield look neater. Having all those little red dots all over the place (on the strategic map) can get tedious when trying to distinquish between active enemies and KO'd teams. historical wise though, it was a fairly standard practice to follow up AP rounds on knocked out tanks with an HE round to destroy the crew. George Forty's US Tanks in action transcripts quoted actual tankers specifically stating this (following up with HE to destroy the crew)

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(in reply to molset)
Post #: 4
- 11/2/2000 11:39:00 PM   
Dave_R

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 9/22/2000
From: England
Status: offline 		I tend to ignore crews, unless they get in the way. The exception to this is crews that abandon a damaged tank, if they get their act together they will often remount, so those poor shmucks become a high priority target!

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(in reply to molset)
Post #: 5
- 11/2/2000 11:52:00 PM   
halstein

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 10/5/2000
From: Trondheim, Norway
Status: offline 		I let it depend on circumstance. Are there more dangerous targets near by, I rather fire at them. I also vary it to theatre of operations. If I play UK vs DAK, I often let the crews go. If it is USSR vs Germany, I usually kill the Facist Swines/Bolsjevik Subhumans on general principle. ------------------ Halstein

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Halstein

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Post #: 6
- 11/3/2000 12:57:00 AM   
The MSG


Posts: 2259
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Sviþjoð
Status: offline 		I can only tell you what Swedish tankers are taught to do (in real life)... Machinegun ´em. After all, a trained crew is harder to replace than a tank. Usually a knocked out tank only need to be hosed down, get some internal stuff replaced and the engine cleared, and then throw in a crew and roll of towards battle. ------------------ The MSG [This message has been edited by The MSG (edited November 02, 2000).]

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"Arf! Arf! Thats my other dog impression."
-Oddball


(in reply to molset)
Post #: 7
- 11/3/2000 1:31:00 AM   
Tankhead

 

Posts: 1352
Joined: 6/21/2000
From: Yukon Territory Canada
Status: offline 		Hi All! I can't lie so I kill everything in sight when it comes to the enemy. I've seen crew hiding in building and doing assault on anything that comes around. In a Campaign more so it really hurt the enemy, if you don't kill the crew he will come back in the next battle with a new tank and maybe put an end to your favorite hero with 30 kills, then you will cry and say I should of finish him off in the previous battle. Tankhead ------------------ Rick Cloutier [email]rcclout@telusplanet.net[/email] Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources http://tankhead.home.icq.com

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Tankhead


(in reply to molset)
Post #: 8
- 11/3/2000 1:44:00 AM   
Hauptmann6

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 5/11/2000
From: Portage, MI
Status: offline 		My artillery tends to get the crews if not my recon anvil gets them as they retreat!!! Or if I have nothing better to shoot at and ammo to do it with, I use them for ISU 152 target practice... hehe

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(in reply to molset)
Post #: 9
- 11/3/2000 1:48:00 AM   
Don

 

Posts: 810
Joined: 7/12/2000
From: Elk Grove, CA (near Sacramento)
Status: offline 		You are right, Tankhead, you've got to kill them all. For one thing, you then get 2 kills for every tank (tank + crew), which can really up your total. Secondly, I've had those crews really get in my way when I'm going for that far V-hex. Here is a demontration of how I do it: Don

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Don "Sapper" Llewellyn

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 10
- 11/3/2000 2:51:00 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		You must close their eyes in online games or other player knows where to place arty. also they report your movements. Some of those guys are pretty good shots with those pistols too. Given a choice between a crew or a formed squad of course I would shoot sqd. ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 11
- 11/3/2000 2:53:00 AM   
Don Doom


Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline 		I can not tell a lie. I use them as grease for my tank treads, when I can other wise just blow them up. Don

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Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 12
- 11/3/2000 5:55:00 AM   
Mr.Ed

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 11/1/2000
From: Chicago, Illinois, United States of America
Status: offline 		Bah kill em' all, there are no war crimes tribunals in SPWAW

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(in reply to molset)
Post #: 13
- 11/3/2000 11:25:00 AM   
Anzac Rambo

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 11/1/2000
From: Blenheim, New Zealand
Status: offline 		They have of course declined to honorably surrender and deserve what ever comes their way.

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(in reply to molset)
Post #: 14
- 11/3/2000 2:39:00 PM   
Fredde

 

Posts: 498
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Goteborg, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by The MSG: I can only tell you what Swedish tankers are taught to do (in real life)... Machinegun ´em. After all, a trained crew is harder to replace than a tank. Usually a knocked out tank only need to be hosed down, get some internal stuff replaced and the engine cleared, and then throw in a crew and roll of towards battle.
Agreed, the loss of a trained elite crew must be much more painful and costful then the enemy then the loss of the hardware they ride. Building a new tank in the factory is much quicker (even cheaper?) than training new men. Cynical, yes

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"If infantry is the Queen of the battlefield, artillery is her backbone", Jukka L. Mäkelä about the Finnish victory at Ihantala.

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 15
- 11/3/2000 11:42:00 PM   
Skandranon

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/24/2000
Status: offline 		Heh, I say gun them down... it is just a game. And there's even arguments for doing it IRL (as the gentleman from Sweden pointed out), however ignoble that might be. Personally, I just destroy them since they can rally and assault an oblivious, expensive vehicle, and equally important - they seem to count toward the overall casualties/morale of the opposing side. More units destroyed, more chance the whole force will collapse and retreat.

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Derek "Skandranon"

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 16
- 11/5/2000 9:09:00 AM   
Viriato

 

Posts: 95
Joined: 9/30/2000
From: Lisboa,Portugal
Status: offline 		Hello all , Kill'EM ALL , they were riding their big tanks or their At guns shooting our nice top units and infantry right ? so now that they lost their toy they want to say " ok you got me , take me home and feed me " . No way . Shaka Zulu had one line I like " Only a dead enemy will not rise and attack you again "...... This is were we got to play God , we don't have to be nice or polite or honorable , when you have some squads hiding in a ville , do you think of the poor people who live there and are hidding terrified in the cornors of the houses ? no you dont , you hit the houses with everything you have , right ?........... Tip - Use your AA units to wipe out the crews , they'll get experience and shoot down more planes besides... relax , it's just a game ;O)

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A sorte protege os audazes

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 17
- 11/5/2000 2:38:00 PM   
Tortfeasor

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 9/4/2000
From: helsinki. Finland
Status: offline 		First i shoot the objekt and then i Flame it then i strip the crew and i let them go. That mens i dip them in tar and hunt them with flares. If it`s winter then it dos not matter if they get away in the deap deep cold finnish forest. It`s the Unknown soldiers way.

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My opinion might have been changed, but not the fact that I am correct.

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 18
- 11/5/2000 7:35:00 PM   
silentsurfer

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 10/2/2000
From: saint john, nb
Status: offline 		Definately kill 'em, kill 'em all. I often use my low kill/experience troops for this. They gain valuable points for later in the campaign with minimal risk to the unit. Another reason is, as mentioned before, neatness. The crew can also cause suppression in your troops that are trying to advance on a hex and get stopped because some hero is shooting at you...boy do I make 'em pay for that one. I think we should have a "slow death" icon..you know, shoot 'em in the knees, arms, thigh, earlob, than deliver the final blow. That'll learn 'em Surfer [This message has been edited by silentsurfer (edited November 05, 2000).]

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what the ....

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 19
- 11/6/2000 1:23:00 AM   
Warrior


Posts: 1808
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by molset: Gentlemen! During the course of the Utha to Rhine campaign I began wondering about a thing. I get a lot of kills from finishing of bailed out crews. In fact I make a hobby out of this, since its worth its share towards increasing experience. Thats how my recon teams get their thrills and kills! The AI dont seem to be as cruel. In fact it behaves more chivalrius along the line "having survived the ordeal a burning tank inferno, who am I to play good". Just a question: Whats the practice of fellow warriors ot there? I suppose "Ol blood and Guts" would strip me of all rank for even think morals of this sort. Regards Molset "Jakki er ekki frakki nema sidur se"
Like insects, if they don't bother me, I'll ignore them. But if they shoot or impede my advance - adios.

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Retreat is NOT an option.



(in reply to molset)
Post #: 20
- 11/6/2000 5:13:00 AM   
MECH ENGINEER

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 11/5/2000
From: Canandaigua, NY, USA
Status: offline 		KILL THEM ALL, LET DEFRAG SORT THEM OUT. I don't know how many times I've been driving to a victory hex, some crew decides to get froggy and squeezes off a few rounds. Of course, the the squad next to the victory hex routs. Hose' em

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"When do we get our flamethrowers, Top?"

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 21
- 11/6/2000 7:57:00 AM   
troopie

 

Posts: 996
Joined: 4/8/2000
From: Directly above the centre of the Earth.
Status: offline 		I let 'em go if, they are running from a destroyed gun or vehicle, don't fight and aren't in my way. If they have abandoned a vehicle or a gun and are still with it, I hose them down with rifle fire and make 'em run. If they fight, I cut them down. troopie ------------------ Pamwe Chete

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Pamwe Chete

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 22
- 11/6/2000 3:00:00 PM   
Weasel

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by molset: The AI dont seem to be as cruel. In fact it behaves more chivalrius along the line "having survived the ordeal a burning tank inferno, who am I to play good".
AI not cruel, my ass :-) In Northern Africa scenarios Germans kill every poor crewman in sight. Usually these horrified crewmen (british) stay near their wrecked tanks and do not run away, but when you try to move the survivors into a better shelter, German tanks and their machinegunners feel no mercy. Of course desert is quite open place and these crewmen are in the open, but still...

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(in reply to molset)
Post #: 23
- 11/6/2000 3:33:00 PM   
Viriato

 

Posts: 95
Joined: 9/30/2000
From: Lisboa,Portugal
Status: offline 		hello all , hey Weasel , it's like the men said ... " you can run but you can't hide " ------------------

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A sorte protege os audazes

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 24
- 11/7/2000 2:18:00 PM   
Bill

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 8/30/2000
From: Farnham,Surrey,United Kingdom
Status: offline 		I think that bailed out crews are too prepared to fight. There are only three or four of them with pistols and perhaps an SMG, not trained to fight on foot, and they open up on a 12 man infantry squad. From my readings they usually hide in a ditch until they can withdraw. I end up shooting them because otherwise they spoil the nil suppression bonus by opening up on a squad. Any thoughts? Bill

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(in reply to molset)
Post #: 25
- 11/7/2000 7:36:00 PM   
Charles22

 

Posts: 912
Joined: 5/17/2000
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Status: offline 		Killing enemy crews? For me, generally I don't waste fire on them unless I'm playing defensive and there's no more targets for the tank. I say tank, because probably 95% of my fire, if I'm playing successfully, comes from tanks/TDs. My main priority is to dismantle the worst of enemy anti-tank fire so that crews will normally be only of a very secondary nature. That situation changes slightly if the crew has only 'abandoned' the tank, which might actually cause me in certain instances to actually give it more fire than it deserves, simply because I hate tha idea of having to shoot at the tank again should I fail to rout the crew and it be remanned. Sometimes, though, like when I destroy a tank close to my infantry, and then use that infantry to fire on a more regular unit further back, I'm so irked by the crew firing and possibly killing one of those infantry, my command might somewhat go into a berserk mode and then I'm all out to destroy them (everyone after me: "kill, crush, destroy"). One positive other than the obvious of gaining more experience from killing them that helps enormously, is that doing so reduces the clutter on the field, and it certainly helps to eliminate them while they're in place, stationary, as opposed to bumping into them every other hex should a general mopping up take place later.

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(in reply to molset)
Post #: 26
- 11/8/2000 3:31:00 AM   
Lazarus

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 9/9/2000
From: Friuli (IT)
Status: offline 		well They can choose: they You can surrender now or They can die. (one time one crew destroyed one trunk... I don't want to repeat the experience). They can conquer a victory point, can't they? so why they should survive... in my case run is not an option available for them. ------------------ "The conqueror is always a lover of peace; he would prefer to take over our country unopposed." CLAUSEWITZ

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"The conqueror is always a lover of peace; he would prefer to take over our country unopposed." CLAUSEWITZ

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 27
- 11/8/2000 4:29:00 AM   
Peregrine Falcon

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		True. Crews are far too eager to engage enemy after they have abandoned their tank or other piece of equipment. I think it was good thing to give them more firepower than couple lousy pistols (and maybe few grenades), but now they all want to play heroes and they fire their guns against any target they find - Even infantry AND concrete bunkers Damn stupid - And very unrealistic... They should hide - not fight.
quote:

Originally posted by Bill: I think that bailed out crews are too prepared to fight. There are only three or four of them with pistols and perhaps an SMG, not trained to fight on foot, and they open up on a 12 man infantry squad. From my readings they usually hide in a ditch until they can withdraw. I end up shooting them because otherwise they spoil the nil suppression bonus by opening up on a squad. Any thoughts? Bill


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--Peregrine Falcon--

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 28
- 11/8/2000 9:12:00 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		Believe it or not I've lost vehicles because of those damn crews. Kill them! Kill them all!

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quote:

Col Saito: "Don't speak to me of rules! This is war! It is not a game of cricket!"

(in reply to molset)
Post #: 29
- 11/8/2000 6:19:00 PM   
Frontenac

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 11/8/2000
From: Ristigouche, Quebec, Canada
Status: offline 		I like to edge the battlefield and send a few unit toward the enemy retreat flag and massacre whatever i can shoot at. I dont want those crews to come back so i either kill or make prisoners. ( pardon my poor english )

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(in reply to molset)
Post #: 30
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