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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 12:16:52 AM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		FYI, I fixed that in the latest '41 campaign update. SS Cavalry Brigade and the 1st SS Motorized Brigade show up in late Summer '41.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3


quote:

ORIGINAL: j campbell

Hi Elmo,

Looking through your units I didn't see the SS cavalry brigade anywhere. i noticed a few cavalry brigades in the south porbably Romaninas but didn't see the SS cavalry brigade attached to AGN. Is it attached to one of your Divisions?

cheers,
john


German units are all divisions that can be broken down into regiments. There are no German brigades AFAIK.



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Post #: 181
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 1:51:53 AM   
j campbell


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/20/2001
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
Status: offline 		Hi Trey,

Thats great.  far be it from me to be the champion of the SS but when i was looking through the AAR they happen to be the units that stcik out the most.  Just trying to ensure we have the most authenticity in a computerized boardgame we can get.  i play alot of The Gamers OCS games and i really appreciate the effort they and the guys from GMT do to get all the units in and make it playable. 

It really looks fantastic so far on this AAR. 

Furthermore, i now firsthand that Lee is an excellent  wargamer after he spanked me in SSG's Across the dnepr  a few years back.  Anyway, keep rolling eastwards. 


the Russian winters, are they equal from moscow to the ural and westward or do they change dependant upon how far east you are?  ie is there a difference in snow levels-blizzard/hvy snow/regular winter?
thx,
john


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Post #: 182
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 2:37:20 AM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		I came on board several months ago and combed through every German air and ground unit that I could find. Now I am retroactively implementing these units in the campaigns. You have to balance adding some of the more insignificant and obscure units as you just can't fit everything in. I think me and Jim Wirth finally are on the same sheet of music on trying to balance historical accuracy with a playable game. Intent is to have every brigade/divisional combat and security unit in the game along with all of your favorite Flak Regiments, Artillery Battalions, Nebelwerfer battalions, Pioneer/Construction Bns, Panzerjager Bns, Stug Bns, etc.

There are weather zones in the game so weather isn't the same throughout the entire theater. You'll see rain in one section and clear in another.

Me and Lee traded shots in Typhoon and he kept my Panzers from the gates of Moscow and my furtherst penetration was like 20 miles south of Moscow.

Trey



quote:

ORIGINAL: j campbell

Hi Trey,

Thats great.  far be it from me to be the champion of the SS but when i was looking through the AAR they happen to be the units that stcik out the most.  Just trying to ensure we have the most authenticity in a computerized boardgame we can get.  i play alot of The Gamers OCS games and i really appreciate the effort they and the guys from GMT do to get all the units in and make it playable. 

It really looks fantastic so far on this AAR. 

Furthermore, i now firsthand that Lee is an excellent  wargamer after he spanked me in SSG's Across the dnepr  a few years back.  Anyway, keep rolling eastwards. 


the Russian winters, are they equal from moscow to the ural and westward or do they change dependant upon how far east you are?  ie is there a difference in snow levels-blizzard/hvy snow/regular winter?
thx,
john




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Post #: 183
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 2:49:55 AM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Von Hindenburg

Thanks for the AAR - the time is appreciated.

Could you comment on the reserve and security divisions?

Can you stack the airbases and have an uber base?

And what about the TOE being above 100% for certain items?

How does the handling of generals work? And down to what level?


Not sure what you want to know about security divisions. You can designate reserves and those units may participate in defense of another unit if they are close enough and they pass some initiative checks.

You can stack up to 3 airbases just like any other units.

Yes TOE can go above 100%.

Generals are in the game for Corps and above. They can be promoted or sacked depending on performance. You can use you admin points to replace a leader.

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Post #: 184
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 8:01:36 AM   
critter


Posts: 139
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		Great AAR.
It's kinda shocking to see that over 1/3 of the 17 Pz div's tanks are Pz 1's and 2's. I think allot of people forget that when debating why Moscow held out.
Out of fuel and half fatigued, a long way to go and the Gen. Mud clock ticking...Good stuff.
Thanks again for your hard work....

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Post #: 185
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 11:22:27 AM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		Wasn't 17th one of those hybrid cavalry-motorized divisions that was hastily upgraded to a Panzer Division right before the offensive? Yeah, the Germans were definitely scraping the bottom of the barrel to provide all of AFVs they could at the time.

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Post #: 186
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 12:13:35 PM   
Iron Duke


Posts: 529
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quote:

ORIGINAL: el hefe

'Intent is to have every brigade/divisional combat and security unit in the game along with all of your favorite Flak Regiments, Artillery Battalions, Nebelwerfer battalions, Pioneer/Construction Bns, Panzerjager Bns, Stug Bns, etc. '

Trey




Couple of questions

do the 'independant' stug Bn's upgrade to brigades if yes do we also see some assault gun brigades upgrade to assault artillery brigades (i.e different TOE's with escort battery of infantry and pioneers) If they become Brigades will they stay 'support' units ?

Will the mid/late war SS units that were formed as legions/Brigades appeared as legions/Brigades and then upgrade later to divisons ?

cheers

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Post #: 187
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 12:31:03 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: critter

Great AAR.
It's kinda shocking to see that over 1/3 of the 17 Pz div's tanks are Pz 1's and 2's. I think allot of people forget that when debating why Moscow held out.
Out of fuel and half fatigued, a long way to go and the Gen. Mud clock ticking...Good stuff.
Thanks again for your hard work....


You're welcome. I'm playing with random weather so mud could come at any time, but hopefully not for a while. One of the testers mentioned my pull back from in front of Smolensk was probably not a good idea. Seeing how hard it has been to get my planned envelopment going I might to agree. Then again, against a good player, leaving a couple of units overly exposed like that would have been a bad idea too.

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Post #: 188
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 1:10:03 PM   
cantona2


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Status: offline 		Looking forward to see how the AI handles the counter offensive.

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Post #: 189
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 1:23:56 PM   
Platypus

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 2/16/2010
Status: offline 		Terrific AAR -- are you getting any sleep at all Elmo??

The attention to detail is very much appreciated....great reading.

On another note....has anyone been tasked with running an AAR from the human Soviet perspective?

By this I mean testing the GER ATK under the command of the AI?

I reckon that this would also have the desired effect of rivetting people to their monitors...

cheers

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Post #: 190
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 1:54:54 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		We're making progress with AGN.  Up north the two corps from 18th Army (purple) are fighting through rough country and slowly pushing back the defenders without the benefit or air support.  The 4th Pz Grp (red) is slicing straight through the lines in the hopes of forcing a general retreat but the AI is holding the flanks.  The 16th Army (pink) is having no trouble so far holding the right flank and staying linked up to AGC off the bottom of the screen shot.




< Message edited by elmo3 -- 2/21/2010 1:59:19 PM >

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Post #: 191
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 1:58:44 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Platypus

Terrific AAR -- are you getting any sleep at all Elmo??

The attention to detail is very much appreciated....great reading.

On another note....has anyone been tasked with running an AAR from the human Soviet perspective?

By this I mean testing the GER ATK under the command of the AI?

I reckon that this would also have the desired effect of rivetting people to their monitors...

cheers


As long as I get my afternoon nap I'm fine. Can't recall if anyone is testing the German AI right now. As with most games the AI on attack usually needs more work than when defending so it may not be ready yet.

The rest of turn 6 will be coming later today.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 3:43:53 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, the Stug battalions automatically upgrade to brigades with infantry and pioneer support. There are even two different Stug Brigade versions - one with and one without StuH 42s. They remain off-map as support to attach to units. The SS Motorized Brigades can also automatically upgrade to divisions but the naming conventions make that difficult because the game won't change the name of a unit when it upgrades as the new divisions keeps the previous units designator. For example, the 3rd SS Motorized Brigade will upgrade to become the 3rd SS Grenadier Division in game. It doesn't work so what I have to do is withdraw the SS Brigade and put in an arrival date for the division that upgraded in its place.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Duke


quote:

ORIGINAL: el hefe

'Intent is to have every brigade/divisional combat and security unit in the game along with all of your favorite Flak Regiments, Artillery Battalions, Nebelwerfer battalions, Pioneer/Construction Bns, Panzerjager Bns, Stug Bns, etc.

Trey




Couple of questions

do the 'independant' stug Bn's upgrade to brigades if yes do we also see some assault gun brigades upgrade to assault artillery brigades (i.e different TOE's with escort battery of infantry and pioneers) If they become Brigades will they stay 'support' units ?

Will the mid/late war SS units that were formed as legions/Brigades appeared as legions/Brigades and then upgrade later to divisons ?

cheers



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Post #: 193
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 3:56:27 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		For those of you wondering what I'm up against with the AI, here is the screen showing the various values for Challenging.  In a normal game all these numbers would be 100.  You can adjust the numbers as you want but I took the defaults.  Right now I would say the Soviets are significantly stronger than they were historically.  In my next test I'd probably leave the Germans at 100 and maybe make the Soviet numbers 110 or 115.  With the current settings there is little doubt about the outcome of this game if it went the distance.  Pretty sure I could change the numbers on the fly but will leave them as is for testing purposes. Sorry, the blue is hard to read with the low quality of the screen shot. It says Challenging inside the white box.




< Message edited by elmo3 -- 2/21/2010 3:57:15 PM >

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Post #: 194
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 9:30:40 PM   
Balou


Posts: 841
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline 		Am I right those are airfields east of Novgorod ? Would be interesting to know how the frontline looks from the AI's viewpoint in case he's doing air recon. I'm asking because your frontline has lots of gaps. Not afraid of a push against your supply lines ?

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Post #: 195
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/21/2010 10:42:12 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

Am I right those are airfields east of Novgorod ? Would be interesting to know how the frontline looks from the AI's viewpoint in case he's doing air recon. I'm asking because your frontline has lots of gaps. Not afraid of a push against your supply lines ?


Yes those are airbases. The AI could cut off some of my panzers northeast of Pskov. I don't want to break down too many units into regiments to close the gaps right now as there is a bug preventing recombining them so we'll make do with what we have and hope for the best.

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Post #: 196
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 12:44:50 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		We made a bold move in the center with 3rd Pz Grp (light green) punching all the way through to seize Vitebsk.  Meanwhile 2nd Pz Grp (light blue) widened it's bridgehead over the Dnepr south of Mogilev.  9th Army (dark green) kept up the pressure between the two Pz Grps while 4th Army (dark blue) continued to slog through the swamp.  2nd Army (light blue) will help 2nd Pz Grp with expanding it's bridgehead even further.




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Post #: 197
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 12:46:41 AM   
j campbell


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/20/2001
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
Status: offline 		hi trey,

is the French AVF regiment included? I realise we are talking divisional level but that would be some nice chrome. Plus they come in summer 41' so they would be able to participate in the offensive :)

cheers,
john

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Post #: 198
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 12:47:23 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		We also made a bold move in the south with elements of 1st Pz Grp slashing straight for Zhitomir and 13th Pz Div capturing it.  Next stop Kiev! 




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Post #: 199
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 12:51:04 AM   
elmo3

 

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Status: offline 		On the Rumanian front we made some progress but Odessa is heavily defended so we'll have to surround it before attacking.  The Rumanian air force was very uncooperative this turn and there is some discussion in the tester forums about this.  There could be an issue with how the program picks the form up airbase.  We'll press ahead with or without them.




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Post #: 200
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 12:53:08 AM   
j campbell


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/20/2001
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
Status: offline 		Hi lee,

how is terrain influenced your combat? i notice you have 3 panzer divs moving through what looks like forest area (woodlands?) towards leningrad but they are on a railline. Does being on railine hexes aid movement? kinda like the only primary road to moscow leading across the "orsha landbridge" towards moscow? or are you just kinda using them in poorer terrain because they have a higher firepower/ movement points than the inf units following up?

Looks good going north with them -might be able to swing behind those soviet units just west of what looks like plyussa r. still just south there was an open area available and then you could have used these forces for AGC from there out 9would have probably meant abandoning a strong push on leningrad however)

cheers,
john

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Post #: 201
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 1:01:07 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Losses through turn 6:






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Post #: 202
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 1:07:52 AM   
elmo3

 

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Joined: 1/22/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: j campbell

Hi lee,

how is terrain influenced your combat? i notice you have 3 panzer divs moving through what looks like forest area (woodlands?) towards leningrad but they are on a railline. Does being on railine hexes aid movement? kinda like the only primary road to moscow leading across the "orsha landbridge" towards moscow? or are you just kinda using them in poorer terrain because they have a higher firepower/ movement points than the inf units following up?

Looks good going north with them -might be able to swing behind those soviet units just west of what looks like plyussa r. still just south there was an open area available and then you could have used these forces for AGC from there out 9would have probably meant abandoning a strong push on leningrad however)

cheers,
john


There is no movement advantage to following the rail line. It just happens to be the short route to Leningrad in this case and there isn't much open ground left up north. That, and as you say, they have the greater MP's and punch so they are at the tip of the spear. I'll try to keep moving toward Leningrad but if the opportunity arises to make a nice pocket we'll take it.

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Post #: 203
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 4:55:58 AM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		No, they aren't in. I can't find any reliable information to justify putting them in. I look for established fighting strength numbers and then look for records of combat. There just isn't enough information to justify these volunteer legions from what I have found.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: j campbell

hi trey,

is the French AVF regiment included? I realise we are talking divisional level but that would be some nice chrome. Plus they come in summer 41' so they would be able to participate in the offensive :)

cheers,
john



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Post #: 204
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 8:39:50 AM   
Captain B


Posts: 386
Joined: 8/30/2009
From: Knoxville, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Elmo,

Again I say well done...I am definitely chomping at the bit for the game now. A couple of questions.

How is the rail construction going and how hard is it to keep track of supply?

I know you mentioned earlier that one of your Pz Divisions was at maybe 15% fuel...how does that resupply work?

How would you characterize the AI behavior..does it behave predictably, erratic, or too hard to tell yet?

How organized have the AI counterattacks been? Has it counterattacked at all...again historically the soviets counterattacked early and often when the situation allowed.

And on a lighter note: Do you still have a day job or are you totally swept up in this game...methinks I will take a couple of weeks off once it is out and lock myself in a dark room somewhere with my computer and a large supply of coffee.



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Post #: 205
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 12:33:41 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Unfortunately my rail units are catching up to the front.  That means the front is not moving forward fast enough!  Units will try to get the supply they need (general supply, fuel, ammo) from their HQ or direct from a railhead if they don't get enough from their HQ.  The player only needs to try to keep his supply lines within the hex/MP limits.  There is more to it than that but the player has no control over the details.

I think the AI has done a good job forming defensive lines.  Not sure it has counterattacked at all yet which I agree is not historically correct.  Then again most of the early war Soviet counterattacks were failures so I won't insist the AI repeat the same mistakes.

No day job for me.  I've been retired almost two years and loving it.


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Post #: 206
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 12:51:23 PM   
Smirfy

 

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Status: offline 		Does any screen show the replacements arriving?

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Post #: 207
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 5:07:26 PM   
USSLockwood

 

Posts: 543
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Status: offline 		This game may drive me into retirement!

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Post #: 208
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 5:19:23 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smirfy

Does any screen show the replacements arriving?


The production screen shows what is being built including new squads and all manner of hardware. However I don't think any screen summarizes what units got what replacements. Pavel is our production guru so he can correct me if that's wrong.

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Post #: 209
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/22/2010 6:45:57 PM   
Fastheinz


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Status: offline 		elmo3

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Post #: 210
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