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Pricing - 4/10/2013 7:15:10 PM   
tgb

 

Posts: 766
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline 		I'm not one to normally complain about Matrix pricing policies, since obviously they work, but does it really make sense to release a 3-year-old game for $5 more than it was originally?
Post #: 1
RE: Pricing - 4/10/2013 9:34:26 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi tgb,

Our intention was not to change the existing price, but to match it. Can you elaborate on where you are seeing a price difference?

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to tgb)
Post #: 2
RE: Pricing - 4/10/2013 10:25:13 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline 		Another site has it for $9.95. I got it in a sale for $1.50 last year.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 3
RE: Pricing - 4/10/2013 10:30:12 PM   
tgb

 

Posts: 766
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi tgb,

Our intention was not to change the existing price, but to match it. Can you elaborate on where you are seeing a price difference?

Regards,

- Erik



Hi, Erik:

I don't mean to be busting your chops, but this really does surprise me. The price difference I quoted was from when the game was originally released back in June 2010 (I think). At release it was being sold at for $19.95 for both the digital and physical versions. That was not a sale or pre-order price, by the way, but the list price.

I know of one well-known digital distributor who is selling the game for $9.95 for the base version, and $19.95 for the complete version with all the DLC.

I think you guys really stepped on a land mine with this one.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 4
RE: Pricing - 4/10/2013 10:44:57 PM   
Rocko911

 

Posts: 287
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Erik,
I have verified what they are saying. The game is available in a physical format for almost $15 cheaper and with free shipping at a well know online store. Now I don't mind paying a little extra if you guys make a game better by making it less buggy, better graphics, better user interface, better AI, or just a better gaming experience. If this is the case then you need to tout or show this. If however it is just a retreading of an old game to a new group of loyal customers then I have to say I am disappointed.

(in reply to tgb)
Post #: 5
RE: Pricing - 4/10/2013 10:47:34 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		It's not a retread - it's the same game, we're just able to make it available here for the first time.

I thought we'd synchronized on price but obviously we've got something wrong. I will check into this tomorrow with the team.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Rocko911)
Post #: 6
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 12:03:24 AM   
Wolfe1759


Posts: 798
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Shropshire, UK
Status: offline 		From my posting over at Grogheads on the same subject

What really irritates me about the Matrix pricing is that they continually rip off us UK customers.

Using PoN as an example the US price is $24.99 (I only know this because of the OP, $ prices are not shown on the Matrix site accessed from here in the UK) the UK price is £21.59 which equates to $33.08. However if I go over to the AGEOD site (which is now the same company) I can buy it for £15.99.

The argument that the older Matrix games are over priced is a good one, even more so when you are being charged an additional 30% for no other apparent reason than being this side of the Atlantic.

Rather than having Matrix sell AGEOD games can we get AGEOD to sell Matrix games here in the UK then we might start getting them at a fair price ?

P.S. and it is currently priced at £7.99 on another site.

< Message edited by Wolfe -- 4/11/2013 12:27:29 AM >

_____________________________

"In War: Resolution. In Defeat: Defiance. In Victory: Magnanimity. In Peace: Goodwill." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 7
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 1:02:48 AM   
Hotschi


Posts: 548
Joined: 1/18/2010
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Available for Euro 4.99 on another well known online store.

_____________________________

"A big butcher's bill is not necessarily evidence of good tactics"

- Wavell's reply to Churchill, after the latter complained about faint-heartedness, as he discovered that British casualties in the evacuation from Somaliland had been only 260 men.

(in reply to Wolfe1759)
Post #: 8
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 1:28:51 AM   
budd


Posts: 2972
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: offline






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by **budd** -- 4/11/2013 1:30:19 AM >

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to Hotschi)
Post #: 9
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 1:41:15 AM   
rodney727


Posts: 1460
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline 		+100. Again. I beg you matrix/slitheine please hire someone with retail expericence. If just only for advice. After all there is only so much college books can teach you. Enough said till the next blunder...
quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**










< Message edited by rogo727 -- 4/11/2013 1:43:48 AM >

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to budd)
Post #: 10
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 2:10:18 AM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Another site has it for $9.95. I got it in a sale for $1.50 last year.


Both Steam and Gamersgate practically give this (and all the DLC) away every time there's a sale - and it's not expensive the rest of the time). Ditto Rise of Prussia.

I understand the Matrix approach to pricing the exclusive games, particularly the 'premium' ones, but you really need to revisit pricing policy on games also sold elsewhere particularly if you start selling them sometime after the original release.

I can understand 'supporting' Matrix as well, but I'm sure everyone would rather do that buying new games than over-priced old ones?

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 11
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 9:40:18 AM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

nobody has the right to sell the games any more except us. We own them exclusively now. We are the only place it can be legitimately bought. All other sellers have been contacted and asked to remove the games from sale. If we allow others to sell it will be at the same price as us. However it takes time for the hundreds of stores that Paradox licensed it to to be contacted, respond and remove the games. Going forwards you wont be able to get Ageod games anywhere except direct from us so there will be no price discrepancy, but it is not something that we can fix overnight.

It is true that Paradox sold these games at ridiculous prices on Steam and Gamer's gate but that's a thing of the past that will never happen again. These are massive games and justify a sensible price point. We can;t fix the mistakes from the past but we can make sure going forwards it all works.

UK customers get a direct currency conversion to US customers so the price is £17.99. The Ageod store is migration to our payment system so when this happens all prices will match exactly. UK customers are not getting cheated in any way. It is a pure currency conversion.

Is anyone seriously suggesting that this enormous game is not worth $24.99? It clearly is and just because someone had the crazy idea of selling it for $5 on Steam doesn't change that fact.

I'm sure once you look at the big picture you'll understand the logic and why sensible prices are needed to ensure ongoing development. After all there is a reason that Paradox split from Ageod - their business model just didn't work and was losing money every month. If you want these type of games you need to expect to pay a reasonable price. That's just common sense.

Thanks for you understanding while we move to rationalize the pricing and remove the games from sale on other sites. In the next couple of months everything will be completely unified and we hope to have the games removed from sale everywhere else.



_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 12
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 10:39:18 AM   
Rocko911

 

Posts: 287
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Ian, you do know that by US UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) Law you cannot get rid of retailers selling legit hard copies they have in their inventory bought during any original agreements.

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 13
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 10:42:52 AM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		An additional point - that Bundle Pack for PON on Gamersgate has never been passed to us so thanks - we are chasing that up now and as part of the investigation discovered around 15 additional Ageod titles we have rights to that were not reported! As I said it will take some time to piece this all together but we'll get there!

_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 14
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 12:37:13 PM   
Ranger33

 

Posts: 557
Joined: 8/11/2012
Status: offline 		I can understand paying a premium for wargames, and I would rather those dollars go to Matrix than Steam. That said, there's absolutely no way I'm paying MORE for a game than it originally cost, years after it was released. After looking around at several reviews mentioning the price, the game was definitely $20 at release.

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 15
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 1:38:06 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline 		Wow, I'm glad I got it before slitherine did!

(in reply to Ranger33)
Post #: 16
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 2:20:10 PM   
undercovergeek

 

Posts: 1526
Joined: 11/21/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil
Thanks for you understanding


i dont think anyone is 'understanding' - youre simply taking away any other options

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 17
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 3:50:09 PM   
mbar


Posts: 492
Joined: 3/17/2010
Status: offline 		If this release was including all the DLC then I could understand the price point.

But from the store page this looks like just the base game.

Can anyone confirm what is included in the package?

(in reply to undercovergeek)
Post #: 18
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 5:03:32 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

i dont think anyone is 'understanding' - youre simply taking away any other options


+1

Were PoN a new game it would certainly be 'worth' the asking price, and more, but what's done is done. There are plenty of games across all genres 'worth' far more than you can currently buy them for. Nobody else is taking two-year old plus games and hiking the price to above release level on the grounds that they are 'worth' that!

< Message edited by Hertston -- 4/11/2013 5:04:05 PM >

(in reply to undercovergeek)
Post #: 19
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 5:42:26 PM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

I understand the frustration and confusion but we're teh good guys :)

The game was available for $20 at Steam when it released as a way to get early attention. The $24.99 price is what Ageod have been charging for many months - they can't remember when it changed to that but it has been for a significant amount of time.

Its part of the Steam model to offer games cheap to get some attention. This was taken to a ridiculous extreme and at one point Pride of Nations was on sale for $1.50. This is clearly unsustainable. The sales did go up but overall the revenue generated from the sale was lower than the normal price as you have to sell 20 times as many units. The game made a huge loss overall and will never break even.

We can't control what happened in the past, but we can put Ageod on a steady footing gong forwards.

These are huge games and to make Ageod a sustainable business we need to charge sensible prices. The reality is that if you want to play these type of games, these are the type of prices that you will need to pay.

We want to make Ageod a sustainable business so you can enjoy these games for years to come!

Thanks for your understanding.



_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to mbar)
Post #: 20
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 5:59:57 PM   
Anguille


Posts: 637
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Hyper-cruiser "Phantom"
Status: offline 		So what happens now...i have Pride of Nations, the addon (spanish-american war), Rise of Prusia and Revolution under Siege in my Impulse (Gamestop) account...does it mean i have to buy these...again? Will they vanish from my account?

< Message edited by Anguille -- 4/11/2013 6:00:42 PM >

_____________________________

Pushing it to the limits: an Armada 2526 AAR

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 21
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 6:09:30 PM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		You can continue to use them and we will fully support you and any other previous customers who bought from Paradox via their store or the many stores they licensed it to. However we will be removing Ageod games from sale in most if not all of those stores so we can control things and make sure people are not destroying the games by offering it at silly prices. As I said - we are the good guys! :)

This is one of the reasons we need Ageod to be sustainable going forwards.

_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to Anguille)
Post #: 22
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 6:14:23 PM   
mbar


Posts: 492
Joined: 3/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anguille

So what happens now...i have Pride of Nations, the addon (spanish-american war), Rise of Prusia and Revolution under Siege in my Impulse (Gamestop) account...does it mean i have to buy these...again? Will they vanish from my account?


Typically when a game is no longer available for purchase it will not affect your account. It just means it is no longer for sale at the site. I have games that have be removed from the store but I can still download them and play them with no problem. You have Pride of Nations and you will still have it on Impulse when it is not for sale anymore.

(in reply to Anguille)
Post #: 23
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 6:15:59 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anguille
So what happens now...i have Pride of Nations, the addon (spanish-american war), Rise of Prusia and Revolution under Siege in my Impulse (Gamestop) account...does it mean i have to buy these...again? Will they vanish from my account?


I have PoN and all the DLC on Gamersgate, and there PoN is now just marked as 'old' in my games list. The game page has/has no purchase option depending on which sequence of links you use to get there. As far as I can see you can still buy all the DLC at present, although presumably not for long.

I assume Matrix/Ageod will provide full support to those who have already bought the games elsewhere; there certainly will be very little 'understanding' about if they don't. That said, I don't think any of those mentioned are being worked on any more, so it's presumably just a case of maintaining re-download access.

(in reply to Anguille)
Post #: 24
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 6:23:59 PM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		Absolutely - as discussed above Ageod will provide ongoing support to anyone who has Ageod games no matter where they bought them.

_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 25
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 7:01:52 PM   
Grimnirsson


Posts: 132
Joined: 12/25/2011
Status: offline
quote:

I understand the frustration and confusion but we're the good guys :)


And here's why:

quote:

You can continue to use them and we will fully support you and any other previous customers who bought from Paradox via their store or the many stores they licensed it to


:)


_____________________________


(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 26
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 7:51:24 PM   
Plainian

 

Posts: 212
Joined: 9/22/2006
From: Dundee in Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

UK customers get a direct currency conversion to US customers so the price is £17.99. The Ageod store is migration to our payment system so when this happens all prices will match exactly. UK customers are not getting cheated in any way. It is a pure currency conversion.



Of course we are being cheated. Read the original poster.

Ageod are charging UK gamers £15.99 which includes VAT.
Matrix are charging £17.99 then adding VAT £3.60 to make £21.59.

Even if you look at the dollar value of the game we still lose. The game is $24.99 then that should be £16.23 (before tax) at todays conversion cost. If you are converting $24.99 to £17.99 that means you are giving us £1.39 to the $??? I don't follow the Dollar exchange rate but maybe someone can tell me when it was below £1.40?


(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 27
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 8:12:52 PM   
rodney727


Posts: 1460
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline 		I too bought this game at the fraction of the cost slitherine is charging now. It humors me to read Iain's justification for the high price of this game based on the fact that now we own the rights so its like them telling us $&@$ you! Remember we are the good guys. Frankly I'm surprised he didn't offer a 30% off discount to by his version.....ring a bell huh?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

UK customers get a direct currency conversion to US customers so the price is £17.99. The Ageod store is migration to our payment system so when this happens all prices will match exactly. UK customers are not getting cheated in any way. It is a pure currency conversion.



Of course we are being cheated. Read the original poster.

Ageod are charging UK gamers £15.99 which includes VAT.
Matrix are charging £17.99 then adding VAT £3.60 to make £21.59.

Even if you look at the dollar value of the game we still lose. The game is $24.99 then that should be £16.23 (before tax) at todays conversion cost. If you are converting $24.99 to £17.99 that means you are giving us £1.39 to the $??? I don't follow the Dollar exchange rate but maybe someone can tell me when it was below £1.40?





< Message edited by rogo727 -- 4/11/2013 9:17:10 PM >

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Plainian)
Post #: 28
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 8:34:21 PM   
Hotschi


Posts: 548
Joined: 1/18/2010
From: Austria
Status: offline 		I wasn't aware of this game until it was announced here, but it caught my interest. But I am not prepared to spend more money on anything when I can legally purchase the very same product somewhere else for a fraction of the prize offered here, no matter what issues about past/current rights the involved companies may have. Purchasing at a higher prize would be economically foolish on my part (and hard to explain to my personal secretary of finance - aka wife).

That's got nothing to do with "not wanting to support matrixgames/Slitherine", or with the fact that wargames are rather a niche nowadays in the FPS game world, thus have fewer audience and need higher prizes to break even etc etc etc.

PON is a old game, released June 2011 or something. Iain wrote above that

quote:

The game made a huge loss overall and will never break even


By offering it now at the prize of Euro 20.99 D/L or Euro 28.99 boxed will for sure not make it reach the break even point either. The damage to the company involved has already been done - but this is and never was the fault of the customers.

Written all that, I am going for a compromise. I've just purchased PON at a lower prize somewhere else, and will get the DLC's via AGEOD or matrixgames/Slitherine.


_____________________________

"A big butcher's bill is not necessarily evidence of good tactics"

- Wavell's reply to Churchill, after the latter complained about faint-heartedness, as he discovered that British casualties in the evacuation from Somaliland had been only 260 men.

(in reply to Plainian)
Post #: 29
RE: Pricing - 4/11/2013 8:53:23 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

Posts: 1446
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

UK customers get a direct currency conversion to US customers so the price is £17.99. The Ageod store is migration to our payment system so when this happens all prices will match exactly. UK customers are not getting cheated in any way. It is a pure currency conversion.



Of course we are being cheated. Read the original poster.

Ageod are charging UK gamers £15.99 which includes VAT.
Matrix are charging £17.99 then adding VAT £3.60 to make £21.59.

Even if you look at the dollar value of the game we still lose. The game is $24.99 then that should be £16.23 (before tax) at todays conversion cost. If you are converting $24.99 to £17.99 that means you are giving us £1.39 to the $??? I don't follow the Dollar exchange rate but maybe someone can tell me when it was below £1.40?

Iain can answer more fully I am sure, but:

- your own quote contains Iain's point the store is in transition and that once it is complete the prices will be the same.

- currency conversions via payment processors are not as simple as looking at an instant (generally mid-market) exchange rate.

Cheers

Pip

(in reply to Plainian)
Post #: 30
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