Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: italiamedio

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

And this is the real tragedy ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

The price isn't going to change. No amount of complaining is going to change that.


What is far more important is:

Will I be able to get the DLC if I want them, being that I bought this when it came out?

What is the best way to play Russia?

And it's obvious that Matrix knows what it's doing. They're still here, unlike, say, SSI/Microprose.

No tragedy on my end. I also thought that WiTE was too high in price. I bought it anyway. The only tragedy would be if I didn't buy it at all, as I would miss out on the best game of that conflict I ever played.

Hi Aurelian,

Perhaps you didn't see the point. I believe rogo727 was trying to say that Matrix and Slitherine don't adjust prices according to market data, consumer opinions or demand. Thus the reason for the existence of this thread.

THAT seems to be the real fundamental tragedy here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Agreed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: italiamedio

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

And this is the real tragedy ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

The price isn't going to change. No amount of complaining is going to change that.


What is far more important is:

Will I be able to get the DLC if I want them, being that I bought this when it came out?

What is the best way to play Russia?

And it's obvious that Matrix knows what it's doing. They're still here, unlike, say, SSI/Microprose.

No tragedy on my end. I also thought that WiTE was too high in price. I bought it anyway. The only tragedy would be if I didn't buy it at all, as I would miss out on the best game of that conflict I ever played.

Hi Aurelian,

Perhaps you didn't see the point. I believe rogo727 was trying to say that Matrix and Slitherine don't adjust prices according to market data, consumer opinions or demand. Thus the reason for the existence of this thread.

THAT seems to be the real fundamental tragedy here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gray Mouser

These arguments are fantastic. Demands to have the marketing director show up to justify the pricing of a game? Anger over the Easter Egg sales gimmick? (sorry , I mean Holiday Egg)
I mean really, if you had taken at least 2 marketing classes you should know that Matrix Slitherine are a failing company and thank heavens the goodwill of 4-5 "fans" are just trying to help save them.

Yup....

I'm buying the game from Slitherine this weekend, hmm maybe I'll buy two just to hinder this socialist boycott in the works.
Dont worry , I can afford, I work for a living and dont expect freebies. And I see the irony that the taxes I pay off the income I earn will somehow trickle down and benefit those who feel "entitled to everything"

Cause this is what is shakes down to right , entitlements ?

Sorry you didnt find your "Easter Eggs" guys, but that shouldnt be everyone elses problem. Go save a whale or something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I'm not asking for anything free mr. Gray. So what you are saying in general is that I don't work for a living? I really hate it when people make ignorant comments about people they don't know.
Yup...... So now I'm a socialist.
The Easter egg concept was a good idea in principle but poorly executed.
So please stick to the main topic or leave. Or is this just another "tongue to cheek statement "

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gray Mouser

These arguments are fantastic. Demands to have the marketing director show up to justify the pricing of a game? Anger over the Easter Egg sales gimmick? (sorry , I mean Holiday Egg)
I mean really, if you had taken at least 2 marketing classes you should know that Matrix Slitherine are a failing company and thank heavens the goodwill of 4-5 "fans" are just trying to help save them.

Yup....

I'm buying the game from Slitherine this weekend, hmm maybe I'll buy two just to hinder this socialist boycott in the works.
Dont worry , I can afford, I work for a living and dont expect freebies. And I see the irony that the taxes I pay off the income I earn will somehow trickle down and benefit those who feel "entitled to everything"

Cause this is what is shakes down to right , entitlements ?

Sorry you didnt find your "Easter Eggs" guys, but that shouldnt be everyone elses problem. Go save a whale or something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Agreed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: italiamedio

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

And this is the real tragedy ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

The price isn't going to change. No amount of complaining is going to change that.


What is far more important is:

Will I be able to get the DLC if I want them, being that I bought this when it came out?

What is the best way to play Russia?

And it's obvious that Matrix knows what it's doing. They're still here, unlike, say, SSI/Microprose.

No tragedy on my end. I also thought that WiTE was too high in price. I bought it anyway. The only tragedy would be if I didn't buy it at all, as I would miss out on the best game of that conflict I ever played.

Hi Aurelian,

Perhaps you didn't see the point. I believe rogo727 was trying to say that Matrix and Slitherine don't adjust prices according to market data, consumer opinions or demand. Thus the reason for the existence of this thread.

THAT seems to be the real fundamental tragedy here.

Then perhaps he should just say so. The reason for the existence of this thread is to do nothing more than complain. If they didn't know what they are doing, they wouldn't be here now would they.

You don't like the price, you simply don't buy it. They are not about to change simply because of an old, tired, argument.

You have *no* idea what the market data they have is. You have no idea what the demand is. Outside of your own, you have no idea what consumer opinion is.

Here's mine. The game is worth what they ask for it. It's worth more than some games I bought in the past (Braveheart for one.) It's worth more than some games I was given as presents.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I don't know that there's anything else I could say about pricing that hasn't been said, but I'll give it one more try.

Every bit of data we have tells us that the previous pricing policy was _not_ helping AGEOD and that the new one will. The new pricing policy consists of simply matching the AGEOD store price rather than the special lower prices offered by other distributors. We are not intent on removing the games from all distributors, but we are intent on making sure AGEOD gets a fair price for each game sold. I absolutely agree that we should have known all the places where the game was being sold and what price it was being sold for. Unfortunately, we did not - when AGEOD left Paradox and joined us, some of that information was simply unknown or not available. The main thing that a clearer understanding of just how widely this game was discounted and sold would have changed was how we communicated what we were doing in the initial announcement and before the release.

We did not intend to increase the price. Our store currently calculates the price in pounds based on the price in dollars. It does not add to that price in order to punish our UK customers or customers anywhere else in the world. This topic has come up many times before and we've explained in detail how it works.

We set a price in dollars, the store then figures out the price in other currencies dynamically based on the currency conversion rate that we have access to through our online store partner. This does not match exactly the rate you see in the newspaper because we are charged for the currency conversion by the folks that do it and that is passed along to us and thus to you in a slightly worse conversion rate (by about 2% or so, if I recall correctly). At the end of the day, the money that we and the developer gets is the same whether you purchase in US dollars or UK pounds or any other currency. We're not getting more from UK customers than from US customers.

I know that in the past when we put AGEOD games up on our store, our non-US prices also did not match theirs because they used a different method of calculating the non-US prices. This is not new to this release, but it is how every game in our store is priced.

As far as future releases, we are in the process of adding all the other releases, including a new version of Rise of Prussia and all the extra DLCs for all AGEOD games to the Matrix and Slitherine stores. There's a lot of work going on behind the scenes. We are doing our best to help AGEOD based on our knowledge of this market, not hurt them. We're following the same strategy that has worked for Matrix and Slitherine and our other developers. I freely acknowledge this strategy does not make sense for the wider market of non-wargames but at the same time the wider market wisdom does not work as well for wargames as a lot the posters here may assume.

We (Matrix, Slitherine and AGEOD) are already all together funding development on future AGEOD titles and we believe based on our data that all of this together will mean that we can all enjoy the outstanding and creative wargames AGEOD makes for years to come. That, ultimately, is our goal. We entered a partnership with AGEOD because we like their games, like them and want them to succeed.

Regards,

- Erik

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727
I tried to PM Erik about my concerns.... Turns out his mailbox was full and I couldn't send. It's funny really isn't it? I cannot express my concerns because the mailbox is full.... I'm wondering how I would get away with that. Oh ya I wouldn't. Before this thread gets locked and I'm put under a lifetime "ban" I just want to say I have no problem with matrix/slitherine helping out a company that for reasons stated in this thread can't make it on their own. When I see a wrong I try and make it right.

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfe
It is not so much the £ price for PoN but the ongoing discrepancy on ALL Matrix prices that bothers me.

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: italiamedio

As consumers, don't we have a right to complain? It is with all successful companies I can think of.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfe
It is not so much the £ price for PoN but the ongoing discrepancy on ALL Matrix prices that bothers me.

If we explain that the way the price is determined is that we do a direct conversion, with the only added costs being those we pass through from the banks who do the currency conversion and the governments that choose to add additional tax (same thing happens in the US, by the way, sales tax is added to the price in many states), so that in the end the amount that we receive is the same from US and UK customers, your opinion is that we are still being unfair? So we should change our UK price so that we eat the additional costs from third parties, rather than passing those costs through? The end result of that would be that each copy sold in the UK would actually be at a different, lower price per copy for the developer than a copy sold in the US. I do not understand how the conversion rate charged by banks and the tax charged by government becomes an issue of Matrix/Slitherine fairness. The part of the price that we actually control, we do a direct conversion.

There are many companies out there that set their UK or other currency prices at a 1:1 ratio, because they just do. We do not and we explain how we calculate the price to make clear that we are not adding anything onto UK customers to pad our pockets.

Regards,

- Erik

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727
I tried to PM Erik about my concerns.... Turns out his mailbox was full and I couldn't send. It's funny really isn't it? I cannot express my concerns because the mailbox is full.... I'm wondering how I would get away with that. Oh ya I wouldn't. Before this thread gets locked and I'm put under a lifetime "ban" I just want to say I have no problem with matrix/slitherine helping out a company that for reasons stated in this thread can't make it on their own. When I see a wrong I try and make it right.

That's the second time you've imagined that you're getting banned for discussing prices. I really have no idea where this is coming from. There is no forum rule against price discussions.

You are always welcome to e-mail me if my PM box is full. Use the e-mail button or just send to erikr@matrixgames.com.

Regards,

- Erik

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deomrve

For those of you that don't want to pay Matrix price then go to a site that sells it cheaper and buy it there. You get the same game only cheaper. I don't know if Matrix will give out more key's once the other sites use theirs up, I kinda doubt it, even though Eric hinted that that they would let other sites sell the game. I suspect that once the current keys at the other sites are used up Matrix will only release new ones if the site agrees to sell it for the same price as they do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

This is classic. He doesn't own the game and never played it but he is saying yep it's worth the price they are asking.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

The game is clearly worth more then a one time sale price. I do not see the problem. 25 dollars is a fair price for this game. Those complaining, especially those that already own the game, can just ignore the price offered by matrix. You don't want to pay, don't buy.

I haven't bought this yet because I don't like AGEODs system of how games work. I have several of their games and none of them are intuitive or easy to work. That may change as the period interests me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

This is classic. He doesn't own the game and never played it but he is saying yep it's worth the price they are asking.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

The game is clearly worth more then a one time sale price. I do not see the problem. 25 dollars is a fair price for this game. Those complaining, especially those that already own the game, can just ignore the price offered by matrix. You don't want to pay, don't buy.

I haven't bought this yet because I don't like AGEODs system of how games work. I have several of their games and none of them are intuitive or easy to work. That may change as the period interests me.

As opposed to you complaining about the price of a game you admit you already own? Matrix has it now I may buy it when I have the money. I may not. What I won't do is go to a game I own thread and complain about a price for something I ALREADY OWN.

quote:

ORIGINAL: italiamedio
Apparently we don't have the option to buy from other sites. I opened a thread with great prices, and it was closed faster than a fiy on a turd. And, I was called "Rude" for doing it.
Not a free capitalist market I guess.

Is this censorship? Yes.

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: italiamedio

As consumers, don't we have a right to complain? It is with all successful companies I can think of.

Your best way to complain is don't buy it. Get enough people to do that, and you'll accomplish one of three things.

1: Price drops.

2: Layoffs in the company because their revenue stream does not allow them to operate at current levels.

3: Closure of same and throwing everyone in said company out of work, along with further shrinkage of an already niche market.

But to continue to complain about the same thing, over and over, or start new threads........... They heard you the first time. And the second. And the third. And the, well, you get the idea. Repetition is not going to make it more clear.

They explained their reasoning. Accept it or not, it is your choice, but Matrix has made their position clear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: italiamedio
Apparently we don't have the option to buy from other sites. I opened a thread with great prices, and it was closed faster than a fiy on a turd. And, I was called "Rude" for doing it.
Not a free capitalist market I guess.

Is this censorship? Yes.

Interesting. I guess we have different definitions of politeness. Posting in our forum directing folks to buy from other sites where it doesn't support us strikes you as perfectly fine? We already said we'd support the game regardless where it was sold and we also can't stop you purchasing it elsewhere. I think we've explained pretty much everything now, you can go back to our posts if you'd like to understand why I saw your actions as rude.

Finally, locking a thread is not censorship. Deleting it would be.

Regards,

- Erik