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RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/4/2016 6:37:58 AM

mudy

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Joined: 2/2/2016
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I dont know, I somehow dislike Panzer Corps. When playing Panzer Corps, it felt like something is missing. Its battlefield doesn't reflect actual ground war like SPWAW. Units represent by symbols on platoon level, I think SPWAW is better with units in section level. Panzer Corps and all platoon level TBG lost some feel of strategic ground maneuver. Thats why I dont enjoy them after Steel Panther series.

The SPWAW campaign is much more fun. Its just the combat level should be increased to Division level, that is three of current Commander.

Reorganizing army is more fun with SPWAW, replacing trucks with Panther tank while keeping entire brigade through out the war.

Ofcourse to maintain the strategic maneuver advantage SPWAW needs more upgrade:

11. Additional map feature will be the main advantage of new version of SPWAW that is not exist on other platoon level game.

a. More ground height level: at least 10 level. Hiding on slope behind high ground should provide some protection.
b. More tree hex type: dense tree that is un-passable by tanks, dense bushes that is un-passable by infantry but can be passed by tanks. For example, we could create better Ardenesse Offense reenactment.
c. More river hex type: river segment that cannot be passed by tanks but can be passed by troops.
d. More winter hex type

You can explain historical battle using SPWAW, but you cannot explain those battle using Panzer Corps (or other platoon level TBG).

Without new version of a good section level TBG we might see SPWAW around for 10 more years.

(in reply to Matt R)

Post #: 91

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/4/2016 6:53:24 AM

mudy

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12. The new campaign story

I'd like to see the game starts tutorial campaign with battle in WW1. Trench warfare, limited tanks. Entire German Division facing allied assault.

New player plays as Germany will learn how to perform basic game task. Lost at center map, the game re-spawn on German rear map, new deployment, with no more trenches but heavier German divisional artillery. Allied failed to break through and the player win, but the game ends with news of Versaille treaty. German surrender.

The second tutorial campaign game, Germany starts with early WW2 advance pre-Poland.

After that, the Mega campaign start on invasion to Poland.

Player could form his main combat division, selecting from officers pool and creating his order of battle for main brigade, left and right wing brigade to protect his flank or to do flanking maneuver. This division will fought in hundreds of major and minor battle to the end of the war. Every battle played on large map.

Thats what I like to see. :-D

(in reply to mudy)

Post #: 92

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/4/2016 4:26:39 PM

DROregon

Posts: 129
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From: Oregon
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How about a Hotkey that sets the Range to 1 for all units....?

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Post #: 93

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/4/2016 6:25:39 PM

Kuokkanen

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mudy, Steel Panthers game on brigade level is Steel Panthers 3. In that game units on the map are platoon size (vehicles too). If you want play with division size force, a good one could be John Tiller's Panzer Campaigns. Maybe SPWAW could handle division size force, but clicking through that many infantry squads and individual vehicles & heavy weapons could get little tedious.

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Post #: 94

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/5/2016 2:28:24 AM

mudy

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Thank you for the recommendation.

I played most of those games. I have JTPC Korea 85 and finished the campaign like decades ago, but I dont play it again like SPWAW. I believe its smallest unit is platoon or company or batalion level. Its a good game. The last TBG I get at Steam was Unity of Command, also at platoon level. But feels like a board game, not a combat simulator.

Platoon/Company/Batalion level games lacks of tactical maneuvering and strategy have little to do with geographic environment: ground condition, level of ground heights etc. So player simply stacks up units, no need for infantry strategy and armored assault strategy. For that kind of game, I prefer my buggy Hearts Of Iron III with Steam generous discounts

(hopefully they will launch the IV soon). It covers all aspect of strategic TBG at nation level.

SPWAW 2016 had something better than those games, that is the realistic nature of the ground (hex) that allow many aspect of ground combat strategy. For example having to take high ground, not just stacking unit on a board game.

Even compared to the real time combat simulator that I played now, Wargame (I have all three AirLand Battle, European Escalation, and Red Dragon), the ancient SPWAW still gain upper hand. I value SPWAW as having more realistic battle, and I could concentrate on combat strategy, rather than just sending units to the front.

That is why I'm hoping that new SP will be continue from SPWAW 2016, not SP3, that the smallest unit will still be section.

I would like to have division size force, that is three Brigade: center, right and left. Instead of having 1 GE Commander, I could get 3 GE Commander, and 1 Field Marshal/Divisional Commander.

Clicking through that many squads and individual vehicles will be overwhelming, unless the game provide way to make it easier, that is why I have suggestion number 5:
- some section/platoon/company waypoint (line and combat formation)
- auto fire based on rules of engagement
- auto shoot of units, including fire support
etc.

Those will allow player to focus on certain units on the map and concentrating on ground combat strategy.

< Message edited by mudy -- 2/5/2016 3:56:37 AM >

(in reply to Kuokkanen)

Post #: 95

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/5/2016 2:48:11 AM

mudy

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ps: I played SPWAW campaign 201 units with 1 artillery company, 3 infantry company, 3 armored company, and another company, so its 8 company, already close to a Divisional level. Only with a single Brigade commander.

< Message edited by mudy -- 2/5/2016 3:50:13 AM >

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Post #: 96

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/5/2016 5:07:52 PM

Kuokkanen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mudy

The last TBG I get at Steam was Unity of Command, also at platoon level.

This game? Dude, in that game player commands whole frakkin' army group where most counters are size of division! Platoon isn't large enough to be worth of a tick ( = strenght point of a unit)!

< Message edited by Matti Kuokkanen -- 2/5/2016 6:09:35 PM >

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Post #: 97

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/5/2016 6:18:50 PM

Matt R

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mudy
ps: I played SPWAW campaign 201 units with 1 artillery company, 3 infantry company, 3 armored company, and another company, so its 8 company, already close to a Divisional level.

No.. that's only about two battalions. A small brigade at best.

We're not trying to jack with you, bro.. just that SP is on a much smaller scale than what you're trying for

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(in reply to mudy)

Post #: 98

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/7/2016 6:34:10 AM

mudy

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Well, that's what I want to see if there will be a new SP, I don't mind with different thoughts.

My view:
I believe that the new SP will be better it it maintain smaller lowest unit, while increasing the largest unit to Divisional level, with theater representing army and army groups.
While adding some feature to help player manage the huge number of units.

Of course there should be small campaign, small scenario, and small battle, but the mega campaign could be made representing the real WWII theater.

< Message edited by mudy -- 2/7/2016 8:46:07 AM >

(in reply to Matt R)

Post #: 99

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/7/2016 6:36:54 AM

mudy

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You right about UoC. It is divisional.

(in reply to Kuokkanen)

Post #: 100

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/7/2016 7:39:42 AM

mudy

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where am I now...
Oh, Number 13: Better dramatization
A small notification box with video support to provide more dramatize information about the battle without delaying the game.
Add events in the game that could trigger video. For example, when enemy army reduced to certain level a video of a panic German officer reporting to the player. Broken events should be represent by something more dramatic.
Bombardment, airstrike event, tank overrun event, infantry destroy tanks, melee event, officer killed, etc, should all represent by several video. Its better that the events and video file system are well documented, so that later on the community could insert some frames from movies.

(in reply to mudy)

Post #: 101

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/9/2016 6:34:36 AM

mudy

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Number 14: Better infantry / armored balance
Infantry in SP3 is too weak. I rarely use any infantry on SP3, just armored. Motorcycle unit and light armored replace infantry recon. Only machine gun is quite effective, and pioneer to eliminate mines. Probably the bird eye view gave armored too much advantage.

SPWAW 2016 is better in representing battle result when infantry present, however it use smoke abuse. I bet no WWII army had that much smoke on their infantry. Its a good workaround for the ancient platform.

For new SP, I hope to see better solution of this problem: having player utilize infantry as in the battlefield, without having to exaggerate the use and effectiveness of smoke grenade.

My suggestion:
- Add hex tree and building type where infantry could disappear from armored, and can shoot without being spotted.
- Some rocks, slope, stream, tree and building hex can be passed by infantry only, not by vehicle.
- Add new sign (color or symbol) for a target hex where armor could see enemy shooting but cannot determine their exact place. The armor then could shoot at that hex without targeting enemy unit.
- Trench / dug-in area can be place by player just like mine field / obstacle. In this area infantry could disappear from armored, and minimize bombardment effects.
- All objective hex should be trenched so infantry required to smoke enemy out.
- Infantry may bring some limited smoke grenade (specially elite unit) but its effect should be limited, and only blocking enemy view if multiple hex covered by smoke.
- Tank mine should be different than personnel's mine. Infantry should be able to move through tank mine without having any problem, while tanks should only face minor difficulties in crossing personnel mine area.

I guess people at the Depot might have more comprehensive list.

Talking about minefield:

Number 15: Limit building point and relate the building with preparation
Minefields, fortifications, and obstacles point should be given on army menu between battles. Time between 2 combat should effect how player could build.

Massive minefields and obstacle cannot be built on entire map, and cannot form a close line, unless attacking a flank map that is know to be heavily fortified.

(in reply to mudy)

Post #: 102

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/11/2016 2:25:21 AM

mudy

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Number 16: More users friendly control

a. Ergonomic1: Mouse only control
I'm using old Logitech 9xG and able to map all button required to play SPWAW without having to touch keyboard. I mapped back/forward for N/P, scroll click for shift-click, scroll left/right for Y/Esc, resolution up/down for T/F, scroll up/down for zoom in/out. So I could play without keyboard at all.

But I wish non-gaming mouse could also be used for that, that is at least: scroll up/down, scroll click, back/forward button.
Or, if you're real nice, creating more complex context menu on left clicking each units.

b. Ergonomic2: Keyboard only control
Same concept as above, but without mouse. The 6 keyboard represent 6 hex around: I, O, J, K, L, M, < or WEAFZX, so that player could move the unit per hex, without using mouse.

Then map all button to the numpad, so that right hand could operate entire menu (that is F, N, Y, P, Zoom in/out, etc, mapped to numpad 1,2,3,4,5,6,..., +,-,*,/,etc).

All button should be mapped to keyboard (including for example aircraft entry/exit path), and the number should be minimized.

Mind player health...

c. Chain of command instruction: make it possible to instruct entire unit, per section, platoon, company, battalion, brigade, and for entire division. Might use shift-click on commanders unit, or check box. This should satisfy above request for setting all units range to 1.

Number 17: Larger resolution, more zoom in/out
I think more player playing using 32" or 42" monitor. 1080 resolution minimum, 4k better.

Some might also use multi monitor but I thing having the game running while working at the same monitor is a must

. Windowed environment.

(in reply to mudy)

Post #: 103

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 2/24/2016 1:30:26 AM

Storm72

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Well I Hope we did not scare away the Powers That Be...
But I will resurrect

Nothing New Here:
1) Vehicles being able to go in reverse.
2) Multi Level Buildings.
3) I would like to think I want sewer movements in massive city maps - Maybe - but not sure.
4) The ability to enter 2 Hex coordinates into a LOS / LOF calculator for a quick Yes / No result.
Hex 1 = 22,6
Hex 2 = 22,10
LOS = Yes

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Post #: 104

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 5/16/2016 5:37:59 PM

sIg3b

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First of all, thank you for asking.

Please, please, please keep:

2D.

Igo-Yugo.

Mobile/Defensive State.

Command Control.

Rarity.

Keep Quick Battles short and bloody. 40 turns of slow, attritional grinding in SPWW2 get me bored stiff.

And please don�t think size matters most. I�d much prefer the "typical" scenario/random battle to have a two-digit count of units/side rather than hundreds. 1.000 units on a 300x300 map ===> unplayable.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 105

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 5/16/2016 5:53:31 PM

sIg3b

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quote:

ORIGINAL: troopie

Also, there needs to be more than one purchase page for each formation group.

I�d prefer one page per group, but more groups.

Things will be easier to find if tanks/assault guns and off-map arty/mortars/SP-guns/planes all have a group of their own.

(in reply to troopie)

Post #: 106

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 5/16/2016 6:36:21 PM

sami heimola

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From: kouvola finland
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Well I know this will be "pipe dream" but still;)... Ability to play battles vertical directions (not always as default, maybe adding button "play vertical" into Battle Generator). And more horizontal hexes (let's say for example 180-200 or something like that) into maps. Ability to edit V-flags (locations/amount) as in WinSPMBT/WW2 before battle in Battle Generator (maybe in Campaign Generator too?).

PS.Better graphics overall (well it's mentioned here earlier

).
PPS. Please, add own "volume" option into game (if any way possible)! I know that I could change it via Windows 10 options but I would appreciate separate "volume" knob/option in SPWAW.

< Message edited by sami heimola -- 7/7/2016 12:09:28 PM >

(in reply to sIg3b)

Post #: 107

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 7/5/2016 12:02:10 PM

fmonster

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From: Cartersville, Ga. USA
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With all the talk of WitE2, is this on the perpetual back-burner? I really hope not!

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(in reply to sami heimola)

Post #: 108

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 7/7/2016 9:02:51 AM

Jorm

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Hmm its been a long while but it was such a fun game..

1. improved AI.. I gave the game away in the end due to the very poor AI which seemed in the end to just charge full tilt at victory hexes.
2. improved moral rules
3. retain command and control - please dont dumb this aspect down for the marble flicking masses ;-)

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 109

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 8/22/2016 5:45:32 PM

Kriegsspieler

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The way to look at this is that it's a full court, full company press. We are giving this our all and giving Gary and Joel every bit of support we can to make this as great as we possibly can. IMHO that's great news for all SP fans.

Regards,

- Erik

Well, it has been 14 months since Erik posted the above tantalizing tidbit here in this thread, and as far as I know there have been no announcements, hints, posting of runic symbols, etc. from 2 by 3 games.
Which, of course is hardly surprising, given their habitual allergy to publicizing forthcoming games until they're nearly done with development.

Or have I missed something?

(in reply to Warhorse)

Post #: 110

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 11/16/2016 11:52:39 AM

zonks

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I'd be quite happy with the game as it was, but with updated graphics, as it is the outdated graphics that has prevented me from continuing to play, no matter how much I'd like to.

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Post #: 111

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 11/20/2016 8:38:12 PM

JEB Davis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Olek

I'd be quite happy with the game as it was, but with updated graphics, as it is the outdated graphics that has prevented me from continuing to play, no matter how much I'd like to.

Same here, although I still can play it.

But leaving it the same is basically asking for a miracle, I think.
Can you possibly imagine a team of programmers that would listen to
us and simply make the new game the same as the old one? It would
be much better than some fancy new-tech wonder game like I'm sure
they are working on. But I'm sure that sounds too unbelievable to
a programmer who must be proud of his work. So many of us have spoken
here and expressed your sentiment (with some possible bug fixes), but
we have received no assurance that they will make the game like that.

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Post #: 112

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 11/30/2016 11:19:14 AM

zonks

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JEB Davis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olek

I'd be quite happy with the game as it was, but with updated graphics, as it is the outdated graphics that has prevented me from continuing to play, no matter how much I'd like to.

Same here, although I still can play it.

But leaving it the same is basically asking for a miracle, I think.
Can you possibly imagine a team of programmers that would listen to
us and simply make the new game the same as the old one? It would
be much better than some fancy new-tech wonder game like I'm sure
they are working on. But I'm sure that sounds too unbelievable to
a programmer who must be proud of his work. So many of us have spoken
here and expressed your sentiment (with some possible bug fixes), but
we have received no assurance that they will make the game like that.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more improvements on the game, especially the interface, but I would still be happy with just a makeover, I'm not one of these guys who needs flash graphics, but mate, it looks extremely dated.
And not to knock these devs, but these days, it seems like very few developers have any pride in their work, which is why I have been playing these types of games since SSI was releasing on the C64.

(in reply to JEB Davis)

Post #: 113

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 11/30/2016 3:25:44 PM

Kuokkanen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JEB Davis

But leaving it the same is basically asking for a miracle, I think.
Can you possibly imagine a team of programmers that would listen to
us and simply make the new game the same as the old one? It would
be much better than some fancy new-tech wonder game like I'm sure
they are working on. But I'm sure that sounds too unbelievable to
a programmer who must be proud of his work. So many of us have spoken
here and expressed your sentiment (with some possible bug fixes), but
we have received no assurance that they will make the game like that.

You know what? SPWAW is just what you describe. So is WinSPWW2. When compared to original Steel Panthers from SSI & Gary Grigsby from 1995, SPWAW and WinSPWW2 meet your demand. But should same be done for the third time? Since WinSPWW2 still gets an occasional official update and SPWAW (Enhanced) is getting unofficial ones: what's the point?

I'd like to see something new for a change. Something with a new look but familiar feel. Civilization IV got it right. Got it right BIG time. Civ5 deviated too much.

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Post #: 114

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 1/29/2017 4:38:39 AM

Crazy Ivan

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The List Jeb Davis posted with the following additions to it.

Create a duel use class so that Inf guns can fire direct fire as well as called arty fire.

Create the AA guns so they are either AA or Ground weapons not both ( you can't have it both ways)

Allow engineer units to lay wire and mines.

Create Bridge layers and Bridge units that can build a bailey bridge (even if it takes 30 turns)
This would require adding an additional type of water hex most likely

Allow the infiltration flag to be set in the oobs when creating a unit to allow lt weps to go with them.

Create a Para Delay option to allow para units the 4 or 5 turns of delay before the enemy on the other
side of the map can begin to respond ( only units within a given radius can respond sooner)

Fix the bug that prevents Horses from working out of landing craft.

Give us dis mountable Motorcycle, Horses and Bikes

(in reply to Major_Mess)

Post #: 115

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 1/29/2017 6:20:10 PM

Kuokkanen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crazy Ivan

Create a duel use class so that Inf guns can fire direct fire as well as called arty fire.

Create the AA guns so they are either AA or Ground weapons not both ( you can't have it both ways)

So you want additional use for one weapon type but remove it from another weapon? Besides AA weapons were historically used against ground targets too: 20-40 mm anti-aircraft guns were used against infantry and 88-90 mm ones were used against tanks. You can look it up on Wikipedia for example:

quote:

Like the German 88 and the British QF 3.7 inch AA gun, the M1A1 found itself facing tanks in combat, but unlike the others it could not be depressed to fire against them. On September 11, 1942 the Army issued specifications for a new mount to allow it to be used in this role, which resulted in the 90 mm M2, introducing yet another new mount that could be depressed to 10 degrees below the horizontal and featured a new electrically-assisted rammer. It became the standard weapon from May 13, 1943.

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Post #: 116

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 7/15/2017 5:22:47 AM

Randall

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More stable with no crashes.

Higher resolution without shrinking the units to flyspecks, I want to see all the units in large size with full details.

A wreck for each vehicle. Sorry but a couple guys roasting weenies around the campfire just doesn't fit. I shot all my rounds for the turn from 5 tanks and all I get is a campfire?

More aggressive AI that knows what to do with the units it buys. Static AT guns and mortars that sit there until you overrun them? Tanks that do little more than use their AA Mgs?

Backward compatibility, so old campaigns, and mods transfer.

I'm sure I've missed other things but that's all I have off the top of my head.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 117

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 8/4/2017 6:31:00 AM

Kurt Knispel

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Not too many changes, PLEASE!

Steel Panthers was the best tactical-level wargame EVER. A perfect balance of realism vs playability. I've been playing the various versions since the original was released. I would be playing SP now, if they worked with Win 10.

Better graphics and a resolution of at least 1920x1080 would be nice, but other than that, my feeling is that it would be best not to mess around with what has kept amateur Guderians glued to their screens for two decades. "If it ain't broke - don't fix it!"

Addendum: On further reflection - larger maps. I want my recon units to have to earn their pay for once. And I don't like feeling cramped, when I try to envelop the other guys' flank.

< Message edited by Kurt Knispel -- 8/8/2017 11:32:52 AM >

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Post #: 118

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 8/8/2017 11:49:58 PM

Kurt Knispel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Major Mess

Erik, thanks again for this opportunity. Believe me, to many folks just this dialogue is a dream come true.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
This is purely a hypothetical question, so please don't get overly excited.

Nope, you can't tell me what to do. At any moment now I might very well get extremely excited.

Too late....already happened..........

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Post #: 119

RE: What would you like to see in a new Steel Panthers? - 10/15/2017 1:40:30 AM

ArmyEsq

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I'd really like to see multi-level buildings. It seems like this ought not to be that difficult (IMHO) since the game already has helicopters that can share a hex and change height levels. Perhaps some tweaking and ...voila!
But I know little to nothing about coding so forgive the ignorance if in fact it is.

(in reply to Kurt Knispel)

Post #: 120

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