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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment?

 
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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/2/2017 5:00:55 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Re-reading The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett.



Never heard of it. Whatsit 'bout?

It is a historical novel, and one of the best books I ever read. The story is set during 12th century England. The main characters are bound together by the building, or creation, of a cathedral, during a time of unrest. A civil war rages on in the background.

This book is huge (some 1000 pages) and is a stand alone novel. But after 10 years or so a follow up novel was made. And after 10 more years yet another follow up novel was made and that one was recently released. And that one I am going to get myself for Christmas. And I will reread the first two novels before tackling the last one.

The first two books has been made into two separate miniseries.


Here is the trailer for the miniseries.

*WARNING* Contains *SPOILERS*

THE PILLARS OF THE EARTH - Official Series Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd4e1dF_CkM

*WARNING* Contains *SPOILERS*


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pillars_of_the_Earth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pillars_of_the_Earth_(miniseries)


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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/3/2017 9:04:56 AM   
ToressFedd

 

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Well at the moment The Association of Small Bombs - By Karan Mahajan. Wonderful!

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/8/2017 4:25:08 PM   
warspite1


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Having been energised by visiting Berlin recently, I have just finished Bergen to Buckingham Palace (Oppenheimer) and have moved onto The Villa, The Lake, The Meeting (Roseman). End of Chapter 1 "This is a book trying to paint a picture of how, on 20 January 1942, fifteen educated men met to talk about genocide".

Two excellent reads.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/13/2017 9:00:26 PM   
warspite1


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Away from war for the moment, I've just ordered the Pochettino book. Might be interesting, and something can read as and when while still concentrating on the books at hand .

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/13/2017 9:03:28 PM   
Orm


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Has Pochettino written the book or is it about Pochettino?

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/13/2017 9:05:53 PM   
warspite1


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Here's some blurb about the book

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/mauricio-pochettino-new-book-tottenham-hotspur-news-brave-new-world-review-guillem-balague-a8031006.html

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/13/2017 9:14:33 PM   
ncc1701e


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Gothic serpent from Osprey publishing. I like those small books series.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/14/2017 9:26:55 PM   
Perturabo


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Asne Seierstad - One of Us - The Story of A Massacre and its Aftermath


Jokela School Shooting Official Report


Randy Stair - Journal

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/15/2017 9:22:50 PM   
warspite1


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I finished The Villa, The Lake, The Meeting (Roseman).

A very good read - albeit not the one I was quite expecting. As one historian wrote "the most remarkable thing about the Wannsee Conference is that we do not know why it took place". The Wannsee Protocol (minutes) that survived are just a summary of the meeting rather than a proper record of what was said and by whom. My understanding has always been that this was the conference that decided the fate of the Jews of Europe and set in motion the Final Solution. But the truth is, that is almost certainly not the case. For one thing, as is argued by Roseman, the people present at the meeting were too junior in rank to agree such a thing.

Whilst not detracting from the quality of the book, the story is ultimately unsatisfying - not only for the obvious reason of the most terrible outcome - but because we will probably never now know exactly who ordered what and when.

By the time of Wannsee, Jews had been gassed at Chelmno since early December 1941, the Extermination camp at Belzec was already under construction, individuals were seemingly taking matters into their own hands (in the Balkans for example) and the Einsatzkommando in the Soviet Union were liberally murdering Jews and had been for months. Even after the conference, and as soon as the military situation allowed for transportation, there was much involvement in individual train loads by Himmler - and through him, Adolf Hitler.

Many of the documents needed to identify what exactly happened have been either destroyed - particularly around Heydrich's involvement - or perhaps never existed (given Hitler's wish to distance himself from written evidence linking him with genocide). Even where documents exist there is much contradictory evidence, euphemism and Hitler’s vitriolic speeches that may or may not have always meant what he actually said. At Nuremburg (and later Eichmann in Israel) of course those at the meeting who were still alive had every reason to be economical with the truth of what happened and their own involvement. Trying to piece together the evidence is difficult and so we don’t get that neat tidying up of all the loose ends with specific orders on specific dates that confirm xxxx is when the Final Solution began.

I suppose that we should not be surprised. We take on face value – because all WWII histories about the Nazis confirm and reinforce the fact - that Hitler operated a divide and rule policy and liked to play off departments and people against each other. Given that, why should we think that genocide would be any different.

But Roseman at least tries to provide the various strands of evidence in the chapters – Mein Kampf to Mass Murder and Mass Murder to Genocide - and so set the importance of the conference against what happened before (and indeed in the year after) the events of 20 January 1942. If Wannsee was not the meeting where the ‘Final Solution of the Jewish Question’ was actually finalised, its importance as a turning point in what came about is clear.

This is a book that paints a picture of how, on 20 January 1942, fifteen well-educated men (two thirds had a university degree and over half had the title doctor, mainly in law) came together to meet and, speaking to one another with great politeness, sipping their cognac, they cleared the way for genocide.

Chilling.



< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/15/2017 9:44:54 PM >


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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/15/2017 10:05:21 PM   
loki100


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agree about the problem of the finding a causal chain. One thing I suspect was there were many and they intersected at some points.

Overy in the The Bombing War has an almost throw away argument. Basically when the Allies first started to really damage the Ruhr, the Nazi authorities evicted the Jews (who were not allowed to work) so that 'German' workers could continue to live near the factories. The displaced Jews were put into holding camps and barracks. As the bombing did more damage, that accommodation in turn was used for German workers ... you can guess the rest. But in effect, it was a totally accidental by product of an earlier decision.

Another odd strand was that the Nazis first used gas to kill Germans with mental and physical health issues. The Catholic bishops in the Rhineland kicked up such a fuss that was this stopped. So all of a sudden they had a group of 'experts' with nothing to do. Can't find it back but think that was from Fritz's Ostkrieg.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/16/2017 6:39:52 AM   
warspite1


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Ostkrieg was a good book - lengthy and very dry - but an interesting read nonetheless.

One of the interesting things about The Villa, The Lake, The Meeting is identifying many of the things that appeared in the excellent drama Conspiracy. As per above, because of the lack of minutes etc no one knows exactly what was said at the meeting.

However, I was able to identify many instances where the scriptwriters have obviously sourced their interpretations of the characters behaviour at the conference. For example Stuckhart was seen as doing a volte-face at Wannsee. Eichmann specifically mentioned this at his trial as it made a big impression on him. In Conspiracy Stuckart does a volte-face and the reason (maybe real or maybe just artistic licence) is that Heydrich 'has a little word in his shell-like". Something to the effect that "you wouldn't want the SS to start taking a special interest in you...."

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/16/2017 6:40:55 AM >


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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/16/2017 8:54:40 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Ostkrieg was a good book - lengthy and very dry - but an interesting read nonetheless.

...


aye, it probably is the best I have read for tieing together the strands of Nazi political theory, the holocaust and the conduct of military actions. Its weakness is in the final third.

Its very clear he is a specialist in German history not Soviet (not even sure he can actually read Russian). So his coverage of the Soviet victories from 43-45 is pretty superficial. The old trope about the Soviets driving their tanks into an anti-tank ditch at Kursk gets an airing [1], and it all comes down to them having more men/guns than the Germans not that they had actually worked out a military doctrine that fitted well with their training, organisation and style of military equipment.

[1] For what its worth, I think it is possible that some Soviet tanks went into a ditch. Rotmistrov's counter-attack involved attacking down a narrow valley, swinging around a hill to engage the Germans. Due to the space, his brigades went in in echelon and provided easy targets. Its clear it was chaotic and formations fell apart as they tried to find a way through and so on.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/16/2017 5:01:03 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Ostkrieg was a good book - lengthy and very dry - but an interesting read nonetheless.

...


aye, it probably is the best I have read for tieing together the strands of Nazi political theory, the holocaust and the conduct of military actions. Its weakness is in the final third.

Its very clear he is a specialist in German history not Soviet (not even sure he can actually read Russian). So his coverage of the Soviet victories from 43-45 is pretty superficial. The old trope about the Soviets driving their tanks into an anti-tank ditch at Kursk gets an airing [1], and it all comes down to them having more men/guns than the Germans not that they had actually worked out a military doctrine that fitted well with their training, organisation and style of military equipment.

[1] For what its worth, I think it is possible that some Soviet tanks went into a ditch. Rotmistrov's counter-attack involved attacking down a narrow valley, swinging around a hill to engage the Germans. Due to the space, his brigades went in in echelon and provided easy targets. Its clear it was chaotic and formations fell apart as they tried to find a way through and so on.
warspite1

I think it's fair to say your knowledge of the Soviet Front is probably greater than most here - and certainly mine


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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/17/2017 2:35:05 AM   
warspite1


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Next book to be read is The SS Alibi of a Nation 1922-1945 (Reitlinger). This was written in 1956 but is recommended by Martin Gilbert who did the forward when it was re-printed in the early 80's.

I continue to read the monster The Right of the Line but this is too big a tome to carry in my bag to work so save for weekend reading!

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/17/2017 3:03:11 PM   
Rodwonder

 

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Grant- Ron Chernow I'm 80 pages in and so far so good.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/23/2017 4:37:49 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Next book to be read is The SS Alibi of a Nation 1922-1945 (Reitlinger). This was written in 1956 but is recommended by Martin Gilbert who did the forward when it was re-printed in the early 80's.

warspite1

This is such a good book. Not the easiest of reads and keeping up with all the characters and their ridiculous - but deadly - intrigues is not always easy.

I had the idea that Hitler's inner circle were generally united in their support of Hitler from the early days, and had at least a vague - and common - notion of where they were going. If I have read Reitlinger right, then this is far from the case - Goebbels for one seemingly could have quite easily found himself not seeing the day after the Night of the Long Knives. Fascinating.


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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/24/2017 6:44:59 AM   
aldrend

 

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Just started reading The Path Between The Seas by David McCullough.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/24/2017 8:25:44 AM   
Aurelian

 

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The Last Nazi: The Life and Times of Dr. Joseph Mengele

Napoleon: The End of Glory.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/26/2017 10:59:59 PM   
Zorch

 

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Waterloo: The Aftermath by Paul O'Keefe. The horrors of a battle won.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 11/27/2017 9:08:33 AM   
Zecke


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Introducción a la cultura japonesa

Mr. HISAYASU NAKAGAWA.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/5/2017 4:20:46 AM   
Laskaris

 

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I plan on one day making it through Churchill's entire multi-volume history of the Second World War. An extremely biased account, obviously, which has to be read with a huge grain of salt. But one of the most important sources we have on the war from one of the key players.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/7/2017 4:11:06 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larrybush

Just read "Guadalcanal Campaign - The definitive Account of the Landmark Battle" by Richard B. Frank. Had to buy it used since it's been out of print for awhile.
One of the more interesting aspects of the book was the research - 127 pages of bibliography! Well researched!
The book was very comprehensive on the geopolitical issues for both sides, the Air, Naval & land battles were remarkable detailed.

The Japanese side was taken from a 101 volume set of books written about a decade after the war and taking about a decade to finish. The author had to find an interpreter that read an arcane style of Japanese.

I did not know the Yamamoto wanted Midway to be the decisive battle and had asked the Imperial Army for 3 division to invade Hawaii. Hawaii was to be the negotiated chip to get America out of the war. The Imperial Army initially refused but after the Doolittle raid began to draw up plans to find 3 divisions.

I also found it interesting that the Navy and Army had to ask Tojo personally 3 times for additional shipping to deliver troops to Guadalcanal - He protested that the tonnage would cut into Japanese steel production for the coming year. After finally giving the tonnage to the Naval he complained that the next years steel production would be short by about a million pounds from the war plan. Interesting to see the level of detail in how the geopolitical situation affected war plans. Makes me think of all the WITP-AE players, Ha!

One of the best books yet I've read on the Guadalcanal Campaign.
warspite1

+1 for Frank's Guadalcanal, I praise this at any opportunity - one of the best WWII books I've read.


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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/7/2017 8:52:50 PM   
ncc1701e


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Not yet in my hands but I am waiting for this one :
https://ospreypublishing.com/case-red

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/17/2017 12:54:10 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Not yet in my hands but I am waiting for this one :
https://ospreypublishing.com/case-red
warspite1

Please let me know what you think - particularly in terms of detailed OOB (or not). Many thanks.



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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/17/2017 12:55:48 PM   
zakblood


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Terry Goodkind, Stone of Tears

epic, then again not read one of his yet i've not enjoyed

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/17/2017 3:26:49 PM   
athineos


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Antigone (Sophocles play) in Greek.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/17/2017 5:56:57 PM   
nelmsm1


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Cross of Iron by Willi Heinrich

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/18/2017 9:12:55 AM   
RFalvo69


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"The Cruel Sea", by Nicholas Monsarrat. It is the story (in novel form) of the small British ships who did convoy duty in the Atlantic during WWII. Monsarrat speaks from personal experience, and it shows. As a novel, it is very similar to "Run Silent, Run Deep" by Edward L. Beach Jr (which is about US submariners in the Pacific). If you liked one of the two you will like the other. I'm two thirds in, and I'm glued.

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RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? - 12/18/2017 10:10:18 AM   
redcoat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

"The Cruel Sea", by Nicholas Monsarrat. It is the story (in novel form) of the small British ships who did convoy duty in the Atlantic during WWII. Monsarrat speaks from personal experience, and it shows. As a novel, it is very similar to "Run Silent, Run Deep" by Edward L. Beach Jr (which is about US submariners in the Pacific). If you liked one of the two you will like the other. I'm two thirds in, and I'm glued.


I haven't read the book, but I've seen the classic 1953 war film based upon it. I've heard that the film omits some of the book's grimmest moments.








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