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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

 
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/23/2018 7:46:46 PM   
ericv

 

Posts: 325
Joined: 1/21/2012
Status: offline 		Aren't the Sanao and Asagao, Wakatake class destroyers?

these have the following armament according to wiki.

quote:


3 × Type 3 120 mm 45 caliber naval gun
2 × 7.7mm machine guns
4 × 53cm torpedoes
20 × mines
(Asagao, after July 1944)
2 × Type 3 120 mm 45 caliber naval guns
4 × Type 96 25 mm AT/AA Guns,
4 × 13.2 mm (0.52 in) Type 93 AA guns,
2 × 530 mm (21 in) 6th Year Type TTs
(3 × 6th Year Type torpedoes)
up to 36 × depth charges


The Yanagi is a Momo Class destroyer with the following type armament, before it turned into an 'E' class escort :

quote:

Armament:

3 × QF 4.7 inch Gun Mk I - IV
2 ×6.5mm machine guns
6× 53cm torpedoes


In the game, the Momo-class converts to 'E'-class in 1943 and loses its torpedoes.

The Wakatake class also starts the game as DD in 1941, turns into an E in 1943, but keeps is torpedoes.

So in this case the torpedo came from either the Sanae or the Asagao.

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 1951
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/23/2018 8:12:10 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Hang on a sec...

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,44, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E Sanae
E Asagao
E Yanagi

Allied Ships
xAK Granville Stuart, Shell hits 41, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight


I can't find any reference to Japanese E type escorts having torpedos (sources WIKI, and Combined Fleet). From what I can find the Etorofu type escort carried 3 4.7 DP, 4-15 25mm AA, 6 DC launchers, and 1 AS mortar. What am I missing?



The E that start being listed as TB (Tomozuro and Otori classes) do have torpedoes. Also some of the older DDs become E during refits; Momi, Momo and Waketake classes (I think). The Wakatake class (Sanae and Asagao) become E but still have the torpedoes.

None of these are long lances though. They have 53cm TT with a range of 8k yards. So they have to get in close. Very good against small craft and mercies. Very bad against the USN in late 44, as they get minced at close range. Still, they've done their job in this one.



_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 1952
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/23/2018 8:12:47 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ericv

Aren't the Sanao and Asagao, Wakatake class destroyers?

these have the following armament according to wiki.

quote:


3 × Type 3 120 mm 45 caliber naval gun
2 × 7.7mm machine guns
4 × 53cm torpedoes
20 × mines
(Asagao, after July 1944)
2 × Type 3 120 mm 45 caliber naval guns
4 × Type 96 25 mm AT/AA Guns,
4 × 13.2 mm (0.52 in) Type 93 AA guns,
2 × 530 mm (21 in) 6th Year Type TTs
(3 × 6th Year Type torpedoes)
up to 36 × depth charges


The Yanagi is a Momo Class destroyer with the following type armament, before it turned into an 'E' class escort :

quote:

Armament:

3 × QF 4.7 inch Gun Mk I - IV
2 ×6.5mm machine guns
6× 53cm torpedoes


In the game, the Momo-class converts to 'E'-class in 1943 and loses its torpedoes.

The Wakatake class also starts the game as DD in 1941, turns into an E in 1943, but keeps is torpedoes.

So in this case the torpedo came from either the Sanae or the Asagao.


Beat me to it!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to ericv)
Post #: 1953
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/23/2018 8:24:07 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		OK. Not trying to be a stick in the mud, just surprised me. They kept them, but in 1940 (if wiki is to be believed) they lost most of the tubes, only keeping 2. still, a tube is a tube

_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1954
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/23/2018 9:24:09 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

OK. Not trying to be a stick in the mud, just surprised me. They kept them, but in 1940 (if wiki is to be believed) they lost most of the tubes, only keeping 2. still, a tube is a tube


Yes, and I think some of these only have two. They're like a DE for the Allies, really.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 1955
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/24/2018 9:54:46 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		It's taken me a while to post this turn, which happened a few days ago. it's a big one.

The BBs went in ...

... and after tangling with a few PTs (sinking 3-4) hit some Fletchers right away.

Inconclusive, but left some IJN DDs damaged.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 1
BB Hiei, Shell hits 3
CA Aoba, Shell hits 1
DD Kazegumo, Shell hits 2
DD Asashimo
DD Hatsukaze, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Amatsukaze, Shell hits 2
DD Natsugumo
DD Murasame, Shell hits 2
DD Harusame
DD Inazuma, Shell hits 3, heavy fires

Allied Ships
DD Fullam
DD Halford
DD Hutchins
DD McGowan, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Mullany, Shell hits 1
DD Murray
DD Stembel, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD David Taylor

Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1956
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/24/2018 9:57:40 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Next up are the Allied cruisers. Since this is one hex out, they were low on ammo and went down quickly.

The DDs hit hard though, and even though the cruisers went under, this battle wasn't a win, and it led to some difficulty later. Still, better to get them than not get anything and be sunk later in port.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 8,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 6 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 7
BB Fuso, Shell hits 15, on fire
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 10
DD Shimakaze, Shell hits 18, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Isokaze, Shell hits 28, and is sunk
DD Urakaze, Shell hits 24, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Nowaki, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Asashio, Shell hits 22, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CA Astoria, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
CL Nashville, Shell hits 28, and is sunk
DD Bradford, Shell hits 2
DD Halsey Powell, Shell hits 4
DD Prichett, Shell hits 1
DD Pringle, Shell hits 1
DD Abner Read
DD Remey
DD Strong, Shell hits 2, on fire

Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 100% moonlight: 11,000 yards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/24/2018 9:59:58 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1957
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/24/2018 10:03:07 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		A detached Fuso ran into some PTs with it's damaged escorts. The PTs sank the DDs, and that left Fuso exposed. The Guardfish then pounced.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Fuso, heavy fires
DD Shimakaze, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Urakaze, and is sunk

Allied Ships
PT-485
PT-486, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-487, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
PT-489, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-490, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Shikuka at 126,43

Japanese Ships
BB Fuso, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Guardfish

BB Fuso is sighted by SS Guardfish
SS Guardfish launches 6 torpedoes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/24/2018 10:04:12 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1958
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/24/2018 10:06:43 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		The CAs tangled with a number of DDs, sinking some in the first battle, but lost their little, older escorts in the second battle.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 127,44, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Takao, Shell hits 8
CA Atago, Shell hits 7
CA Myoko, Shell hits 7
E Hasu, Shell hits 2, heavy fires
E Kuri, Shell hits 1
E Tsuga, Shell hits 2, on fire

Allied Ships
DD Fullam, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
DD Halford, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
DD Hutchins
DD McGowan, Shell hits 10, and is sunk
DD Mullany, Shell hits 1
DD Murray, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Stembel, on fire
DD David Taylor

Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 100% moonlight: 11,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 127,44, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Takao, Shell hits 6
CA Atago, Shell hits 4
CA Myoko
E Hasu, Shell hits 1, heavy fires
E Kuri, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
E Tsuga, Shell hits 14, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Bradford, Shell hits 2
DD Halsey Powell, on fire
DD Prichett
DD Pringle, Shell hits 4
DD Abner Read
DD Remey
DD Strong, Shell hits 1, on fire

Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1959
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/24/2018 10:11:32 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		After a few of their DDs hit mines, the biggest BB TF with Yamato runs into all kinds of little ships that waste their ammo and ops points. It's not looking good at this point for anyone to actually get in a bombardment.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 2
BB Yamato, Shell hits 2
BB Ise
BB Hyuga
DD Makigumo, Shell hits 1
DD Makinami
DD Tamanami
DD Kiyonami

Allied Ships
DMS Boggs, Shell hits 2
DMS Lamberton, Shell hits 2
DMS Perry, Shell hits 8, and is sunk

Improved night sighting under 96% moonlight

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato
BB Yamato, Shell hits 5
BB Ise
BB Hyuga
DD Makigumo
DD Makinami
DD Tamanami
DD Kiyonami

Allied Ships
APD Kilty, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
APD George E. Badger, Shell hits 21, and is sunk
APD Dickerson, Shell hits 17, and is sunk

Improved night sighting under 96% moonlight

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 1
BB Yamato, Shell hits 5
BB Ise, Shell hits 1
BB Hyuga
DD Makigumo, Shell hits 1
DD Makinami
DD Tamanami
DD Kiyonami

Allied Ships
DMS Trevor, Shell hits 1
DMS Hamilton, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
DMS Wasmuth, Shell hits 20, heavy fires, heavy damage

Improved night sighting under 96% moonlight
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1960
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/24/2018 10:24:34 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		The Kongo TF also hits a bunch of small stuff, and some small DD TFs take out a few more DEs and depleted PTs.

Then Kongo and Hiei got a good shot at CA Boston but couldn't finish the deal.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Hiei
CA Aoba
DD Asashimo, on fire
DD Amatsukaze

Allied Ships
AM Dynamic, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
AM Effective, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
AM Force, Shell hits 2, and is sunk

Improved night sighting under 96% moonlight

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Hiei, Shell hits 2
CA Aoba
DD Asashimo, Shell hits 1, heavy fires
DD Amatsukaze

Allied Ships
APD Overton, Shell hits 2, heavy fires
APD Noa, Shell hits 10, and is sunk
APD Clemson, Shell hits 10, and is sunk

Improved night sighting under 96% moonlight

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Tanikaze
DD Kasumi
DD Wakaba, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DE Reynolds, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
DE Steele, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DE Whitman, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Japanese Ships Reported to be Approaching!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Tanikaze
DD Kasumi
DD Wakaba, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
PT-44, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PT-68, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-77, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PT-105, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-106, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-116, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Japanese Ships Reported to be Approaching!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Hiei
CA Aoba, Shell hits 1
DD Asashimo, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Hatsukaze, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Amatsukaze
DD Natsugumo

Allied Ships
CA Boston, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Boyd, Shell hits 2
DD Chauncey, Shell hits 11, heavy fires, heavy damage

Improved night sighting under 96% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 96% moonlight: 11,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/24/2018 1:53:24 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1961
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/24/2018 1:58:32 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Mutsu and Yamashiro soldier on without escort, wading through the LSTs APDs and SCs. They never made it to their bombardment run.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu
BB Yamashiro

Allied Ships
SC PC-1082, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
SC PC-1085, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Japanese Ships Reported to be Approaching!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 9

Allied Ships
APD Manley, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
APD Colhoun
APD Stringham, Shell hits 1

Improved night sighting under 96% moonlight

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Shikuka at 126,43, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu
BB Yamashiro, on fire

Allied Ships
LST-40, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
LST-41, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
LST-42, Shell hits 4, on fire
LST-43, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
LST-45, Shell hits 10, and is sunk

Japanese Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Allied TF begins to get underway
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/24/2018 1:59:23 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1962
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/24/2018 2:02:41 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		There are a few more small actions, but most of the naval forces retire, ammo depleted and ops points used up. Yamashiro takes two torpedoes on the way out. Yuck. Fuso already went under. Then this!!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 125,43

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 23
A6M8 Zero x 230

Allied aircraft
Avenger II x 24
Corsair II x 31
Spitfire VIII x 33
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 14
F4U-1A Corsair x 36
F6F-3 Hellcat x 54
F6F-5 Hellcat x 134
TBM-1C Avenger x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Avenger II: 17 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 5 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 9 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1963
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/24/2018 2:09:02 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		The CAP does wonders and kicks down everything for most of the battle. Then, they began to slowly leak a few through. By the end no CAP was up and stragglers had a free run. Yuck.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 125,43

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 18
A6M8 Zero x 193

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 63
SB2C-3 Helldiver x 36

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M8 Zero: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 7 destroyed
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 25 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 125,43

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 13
A6M8 Zero x 165

Allied aircraft
TBM-1C Avenger x 42

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 24 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 125,43

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 10
A6M8 Zero x 129

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 6
TBM-1C Avenger x 50

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 34 destroyed, 1 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Aso
CV Katsuragi
CV Kasagi
CV Shokaku

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
5 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 125,43

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 8
A6M8 Zero x 87

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 13
SBD-5 Dauntless x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-5 Dauntless: 19 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Kasagi
CV Soryu

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 125,43

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 7
A6M8 Zero x 64

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 2
TBM-1C Avenger x 36

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair II: 1 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 22 destroyed, 3 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Kasagi
CV Shokaku
CV Katsuragi

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
3 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 125,43

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 6
A6M8 Zero x 53

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 22
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 23
SB2C-3 Helldiver x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 11 destroyed, 6 damaged
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 1 destroyed by flak
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 6 destroyed, 7 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Amagi
CV Aso
CV Taiho
CV Soryu
CV Shokaku

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x SB2C-3 Helldiver releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
2 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SB2C-3 Helldiver releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 125,43

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 2
A6M8 Zero x 15

Allied aircraft
TBM-1C Avenger x 19

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 4 destroyed, 12 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Kasagi
CV Soryu
CV Unryu, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 125,43

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 4

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 6
TBM-1C Avenger x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 7 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Kasagi, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Wakazuki
DD Niizuki
CV Aso

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 125,43

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 1

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 18
F4U-1 Corsair x 11
F4U-1A Corsair x 12
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 12 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Soryu, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 1
CV Ikoma
CV Akagi

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 125,43

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 70 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 12
PV-1 Ventura x 4

Allied aircraft losses
PV-1 Ventura: 2 damaged
PV-1 Ventura: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Taiho, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x PV-1 Ventura bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 3 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

Carrier support unable to supply air cover..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 125,43

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 19 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Allied aircraft
TBM-1C Avenger x 12

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 10 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku
CV Soryu, on fire, heavy damage
CV Akagi, Torpedo hits 2, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

Carrier support unable to supply air cover..
Fuel storage explosion on CV Akagi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1964
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/24/2018 7:25:20 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Only two CVs are hit badly, and Soryu might actually make it. Not so sure about Unryu. She's only going 2 hexes a cycle, and won't be out of range tomorrow.

A few things I didn't do perfectly here, but at least it cost the Allies nearly 400 airframes and quite a few pilots to get to the KB. I'll have to do a cost benefit analysis on these two ops later, once all is said and done.

After the turn Shikuka shows the most planes it has ever hosted. If those bombardments had made it through they would have been devastating.

As it is, the Japanese will now hunker down and let subs do the defending, prepare some MTBs and midgets for the DS as it moves through the Kuriles, and get some more mines in place. I'm sending all reserve troops North, able to be flown from Ominato to the Kuriles, Hokkaido, Manchuria or any other destination up here the Allies threaten.

Atlas I know the Allies have less than 100 B-29s to last until until the next series (B-29-25) start producing, which I think is in December?




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1965
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/24/2018 8:11:15 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Here are the air losses on the day. Of course, operationally this is worse for the IJN, with CVs hanging by a thread and a few others needing some time in the shop.

That said, I wasn't going to attack the DS right now, but it would have been good for him to think I could. Now that threat is removed for a bit.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1966
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/24/2018 8:50:36 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Atlas I know the Allies have less than 100 B-29s to last until until the next series (B-29-25) start producing, which I think is in December?


My airplane encyclopedia from my scenario 2 game shows availability of the B-29-25 beginning in 11/44.

_____________________________


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1967
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/24/2018 9:20:48 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Atlas I know the Allies have less than 100 B-29s to last until until the next series (B-29-25) start producing, which I think is in December?


My airplane encyclopedia from my scenario 2 game shows availability of the B-29-25 beginning in 11/44.


Ok. So a month. Then it gets very tough around here. I will have the Frank "r" by then though

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 1968
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/25/2018 9:45:06 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Oct 3, 1944

We're cranking turns all of a sudden. I get the feeling Dan is jazzed to get something done here. Virtually no communication though, as I also sense this is a bit of a smackdown moment for him after a few frustrating months. He is a great opponent and a good guy to chat with when we do. Playing him is really interesting after years of following the AARs. I can already now see how his mind works much more.

He is all about attrition, often to the detriment of his own forces, it seems. He's very persistent. Not completely easy to read on a turn by turn basis, though. He does change it up, and he does respond to opportunities very well. My style has evolved as I play him in this game, and I know I have to be almost chaotic in my planning in order to frustrate his structured approach. Even mistakes are possibilities if I use them to led to a later tactic that builds on or is slightly altered from the first.

One thing is consistent with what I've learned through the AARs; he doesn't stop the plan for any loss. Ships, planes, troops and all devices mean very little as long as the plan is seen to be making progress. This lack of aversion to losses is something the Japanese can build on in the endgame, because it's really about points. The VP changes over the past two months are interesting, and (so far) very positive for my side at this stage. I'll post those next.

On the 3rd the IJN retreated, for the most part. The air strikes continued and as predicted, Unryu is sunk. The DS also reappears and sinks a few resupply TFs in the Kuriles and parts of a base force landing at Onneketon Jima. Th guns all made it and this was just a few support and SNLF forces, so easily replaced, which is good. This means the both Para and Onneketon have 20cm guns in place.

Yamashiro makes good time and escapes the air strikes. She will most likely make port for a long repair, but may not be available again in game for much. She has 55 float damage. Soryu is one hex from Wakkanai, but fires are still going. Ahh, the IJN damage control. Grrrr.

So here we go again, the DS in the house. I'm so curious to see next steps. What are the Allies planning?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 3, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 46,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 44
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 27
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 21
Ki-84a Frank x 11
Ki-100-I Tony x 16

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt I x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt I: 5 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Toyohara at 124,44

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 71 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 2
J2M3 Jack x 15
J2M5 Jack x 17
N1K2-J George x 10
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 42
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 5
Ki-84a Frank x 54
Ki-84b Frank x 34
Ki-102b Randy x 9

Allied aircraft
Avenger II x 4
F6F-5 Hellcat x 53
TBM-1C Avenger x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Avenger II: 3 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 20 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 5 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Toyohara at 124,44

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 1
J2M3 Jack x 11
J2M5 Jack x 17
N1K2-J George x 8
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 28
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 3
Ki-84a Frank x 33
Ki-84b Frank x 28
Ki-102b Randy x 9

Allied aircraft
Avenger II x 4
F6F-3 Hellcat x 16
F6F-5 Hellcat x 10
TBM-1C Avenger x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Avenger II: 3 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 7 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 3 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Toyohara at 124,44

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 1
J2M3 Jack x 7
J2M5 Jack x 15
N1K2-J George x 8
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 16
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 2
Ki-84a Frank x 25
Ki-84b Frank x 24
Ki-102b Randy x 7

Allied aircraft
F6F-5 Hellcat x 20
SB2C-3 Helldiver x 3
SBD-5 Dauntless x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5 Hellcat: 7 destroyed
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 1 destroyed
SBD-5 Dauntless: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Toyohara at 124,44

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 1
J2M3 Jack x 5
J2M5 Jack x 9
N1K2-J George x 4
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 10
Ki-84a Frank x 18
Ki-84b Frank x 18
Ki-102b Randy x 7

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 18
F6F-3 Hellcat x 13
F6F-5 Hellcat x 30
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 5 destroyed
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Yoizuki, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CV Unryu, Bomb hits 12, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Toyohara at 124,44

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 22 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 1
J2M3 Jack x 1
J2M5 Jack x 3
N1K2-J George x 1
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 3
Ki-84a Frank x 6
Ki-84b Frank x 8
Ki-102b Randy x 1

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 11
TBM-1C Avenger x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Toyohara at 124,44

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 60 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 1
J2M3 Jack x 1
J2M5 Jack x 3
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 1
Ki-84a Frank x 5
Ki-84b Frank x 8
Ki-102b Randy x 1

Allied aircraft
P-38L Lightning x 18
TBM-1C Avenger x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38L Lightning: 2 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Wakkanai at 122,47

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 2
A6M8 Zero x 18

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Soryu, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 10 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 17
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 10
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 5
Ki-84a Frank x 4
Ki-100-I Tony x 4

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 23
Wellington B.X x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 17 damaged
N1K5-J George: 4 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 8 damaged
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 2 destroyed on ground
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 5 damaged
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed on ground[
Ki-84a Frank: 4 damaged
Ki-84a Frank: 3 destroyed on ground
Ki-100-I Tony: 4 damaged
Ki-100-I Tony: 2 destroyed on ground
Ki-56 Thalia: 3 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 4 destroyed
Wellington B.X: 7 damaged
Wellington B.X: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 17
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 34

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Wellington B.X bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Paramushiro-jima , at 137,47

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 87

Japanese aircraft losses
H8K2 Emily: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 18 damaged
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 18
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 22

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Onnekotan-jima at 136,48

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 134
F6F-5 Hellcat x 78
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 29
SB2C-3 Helldiver x 61
TBM-1C Avenger x 18

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAKL Shinnan Maru, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
SC Ch 8, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
xAKL Mitsu Maru #3, Bomb hits 8, and is sunk
CM Itsukushima, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CM Tokiwa, Bomb hits 8, and is sunk
SC Ch 12, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
E Shirataka, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
E Natsushima, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk

Japanese ground losses:
3873 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 157 destroyed, 208 disabled
Engineers: 17 destroyed, 28 disabled
Guns lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Uruppu-jima at 130,53

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 46 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 45
F6F-5 Hellcat x 36
TBM-1C Avenger x 47

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
LST T-104, Bomb hits 5, and is sunk
LST T-111, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
LST T-109, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
LST T-105, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
LST T-110, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
LST T-107, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
LST T-101, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
LST T-140, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
LST T-108, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
LST T-106, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
LST T-102, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
9 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
20 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Uruppu-jima at 130,53

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 10
TBM-1C Avenger x 17

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
LST T-105, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
LST T-107, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
LST T-109, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
LST T-101, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
E Kume, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
9 x TBM-1C Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air losses help a bit for the loss of Unryu, but the losses on the ground are high in Burma. A very oddly successful Wellington strike after the CAP had minced a bunch of sweepers.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/25/2018 9:48:40 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1969
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/25/2018 10:45:28 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		How are your IJA & IJN fighter pilot pools?

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1970
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/25/2018 11:51:30 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum

How are your IJA & IJN fighter pilot pools?


Pretty crap. I'm using virtually every fighter group for HI defence, so the IJAAF FBs are training pilots, and for the IJNAF the FPs are doing initial training. I've got about 80 reserve IJN fighter pilots, and about 150 IJAAF reserve fighter pilots now.

I've gotten a new program going but it'll be another month before the 500 or so rookies are fully trained. We're still getting better than 1:1.5 against the Allied best in sweeps, but those initial strikes at Shikuka and against the DS really went through a lot of pilots.

Luckily most combat now is defensive, over our bases, and we should be making some ground in pilot quality vs the Allies, who are not over home territory.

They've lost 702 planes in the past week, and that is all over neutral ocean or Japanese held territory. I'm thinking the Allies should then lose 65% of those pilots.

The Japanese have lost 319, all over our bases. As far as I've noticed in checking pilot losses, I tend to lose about 25-30% pilots KIA/MIA from battles over Japanese territory with armoured airframes.

Looking back farther, here are numbers for the past several months. These are for air loss VPs, so do not account for the 4E losses being worth two points in terms of actual airframes lost or potential pilots killed.

Oct 3

IJ: 20,614
Allies: 17,033

Sept 1

IJ: 18,654 (+1,960 > oct 3) )
Allies: 14,777 (+2,256 > oct 3)

July 29

IJ: 17,006 (+1,648 > Sept 1)
Allies: 13,013 (+1,764 > Sept 1)

July 3

IJ: 16,040 (+966 > July 29)
Allies: 11,474 (+1,539 > July 29)

June 1
(As the Allied fleet approached the North Pacific)

IJ: 12,986 (+3,054 > July 3)
Allies: 10,198 (+1,276 > July 3)

After looking at this all I realise I've done much better defensively than offensively. Some of the losses in the first month were KB strikes against the DS which did sink some ships, so it will be useful to look at ships lost VPs as well over the same timeframe at some point. Some of the large gap there would be made up by a few CVs and other ships sent under.

The totals for the time the Allies have been in the North are below. Not too bad overall.

IJ: 20,614 - 12,986 = 7,628.
Allies: 17,033 - 10,198 = 6,835


< Message edited by obvert -- 5/25/2018 12:31:30 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1971
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/25/2018 2:26:31 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I usually look to see a 3-2 overall edge for the Allies at any point in the war. So, I would rate your air combat results as very good for the past month. Good job there. The changes to the performances for the Jack, Frank and George are a big factors. In stock all but the frank are easy meat. I do not like the newer performance figures for these planes as they really do not have a historical basis. (Yes, on paper the could do it but in actual combat if flown to the edge, they were more likely to kill their own pilot than the enemy). However, in game terms I do not mind. They are a great equalizer and give the Japanese player a better chance. These changes are somewhat compensated by the increased power of Allied AA-which by late 44 becomes pretty awesome.

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(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1972
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/27/2018 7:11:36 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I usually look to see a 3-2 overall edge for the Allies at any point in the war. So, I would rate your air combat results as very good for the past month. Good job there. The changes to the performances for the Jack, Frank and George are a big factors. In stock all but the frank are easy meat. I do not like the newer performance figures for these planes as they really do not have a historical basis. (Yes, on paper the could do it but in actual combat if flown to the edge, they were more likely to kill their own pilot than the enemy). However, in game terms I do not mind. They are a great equalizer and give the Japanese player a better chance. These changes are somewhat compensated by the increased power of Allied AA-which by late 44 becomes pretty awesome.



This is stock. Scenario 1. No air fixes.

So these are all slow and the altitudes for the Allies haven't been nerfed either. I didn't push the Randy Ki-102a forward, so I have nothing to challenge the 42K+ airframes up high. I have to play low layered CAP and occasionally jump high if the situation warrants it.

I'm playing the other game as Allies in Dec 44 against Loka and I can tell you it's rough sledding to sweep anywhere.

My real hope is not just loss numbers though, but the pilot attrition game. I have a good feel for the massive training program the Allies can mount, but Dan is not know to like this part of the game, and I bet the pools are getting slimmer as he goes. Especially for 4E and 2E bombers.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 1973
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/27/2018 7:19:25 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		The 4th starts well, when I-22 gets into the DS and sinks CVE Fanshaw Bay with it's full Hellcat group on board. Two hits and she's under!





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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1974
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/27/2018 7:20:48 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		The Allies go big for Paramushiro, but the defences hold and about 10 B-29-1 are shot down. That is a good day's work!




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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1975
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/27/2018 7:29:51 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Oct 4, 1944

The CVE hit of course doesn't payback for the Unryu, and Soryu also now goes under. Bad damage control and scratch one more IJN CV. It hurts, but the DS is strong, and I was not hoping to face it head on again after the last lucky strikes. I can still combine LBA and KB, and hopefully come up with a surprise or two as the Allies move closer in.

I'm hoping something else might slip through to the DS in the next few days. I've got subs arriving from all directions, and I've found if they come from out of ASW range into the path of the arriving DS, they can often get through to hit since DL is low.

There are some tense moments as the Allies try night bombing attacks over the KB, but NF at Sapporo frustrate most attempts and down a good number of bombers as well. The bombing at Para also nets a good 10-12 more 4E.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 4, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near Shasukotan at 137,55

Japanese Ships
SS I-22, hits 30, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CVE Fanshaw Bay, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
BB California
DD Dunlap
DD Monssen II
DD Jarvis II

SS I-22 launches 6 torpedoes at CVE Fanshaw Bay
DD Monssen II fails to find sub, continues to search...

Sub attack near Ketoi-jima at 136,55

Japanese Ships
SS I-26, hits 15, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DE LeHardy

SS I-26 launches 6 torpedoes at DE LeHardy
I-26 diving deep ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Wakkanai at 122,48

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Allied aircraft
SBD-5 Dauntless x 21

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-5 Dauntless: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Soryu, heavy fires, heavy damage
CLAA Tatsuta
DD Akizuki
DD Teruzuki

Aircraft Attacking:
21 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring a Japanese CV

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Sapporo at 120,51

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 77 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 11
Ki-45 KAId Nick x 8

Allied aircraft
PV-1 Ventura x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
PV-1 Ventura: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Hiyo

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x PV-1 Ventura bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 6 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Ketoi-jima at 136,54

Japanese Ships
SS I-16

Allied Ships
DMS Rodman, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

SS I-16 launches 6 torpedoes
Sub escapes detection

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Ketoi-jima , at 134,50

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 44 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 26
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 28
Ki-84b Frank x 30

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 3 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 4 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Paramushiro-jima , at 137,47

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 67 NM, estimated altitude 42,300 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 42
N1K2-J George x 28
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 41
Ki-84b Frank x 14

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 5 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Paramushiro-jima , at 137,47

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 38
N1K2-J George x 25
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 37
Ki-84b Frank x 14

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 72

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed
H8K2 Emily: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-46-III Dinah: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 3 destroyed, 35 damaged
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 16

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Paramushiro-jima , at 137,47

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 46 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 33
N1K2-J George x 19
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 14
Ki-84b Frank x 10

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 13000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1976
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/27/2018 7:53:18 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Here is where the DS ended up after some Southwesterly misdirection.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1977
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/27/2018 8:02:19 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		On the 5th subs do continue their work. The RO-45 in particular has a field day. I don't think I've ever seen a sub have five contacts, attack four times and hit three separate ships in one turn !

She's still afloat and will try to limp home.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submarine attack near Onnekotan-jima at 136,47

Japanese Ships
SS RO-45

Allied Ships
LCI(G)-79, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

SS RO-45 is sighted by LCI(G)-79
SS RO-45 launches 2 torpedoes at LCI(G)-79

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Onnekotan-jima at 136,47

Japanese Ships
SS RO-45

Allied Ships
LCI-67, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

LCI-67 is sighted by SS RO-45
SS RO-45 launches 2 torpedoes at LCI-67

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ASW attack near Onnekotan-jima at 136,47

Japanese Ships
SS RO-45

Allied Ships
AK Albireo
DE Foreman

SS RO-45 is sighted by escort
DE Foreman fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Onnekotan-jima at 136,47

Japanese Ships
SS RO-45

Allied Ships
xAK Challenger

xAK Challenger is sighted by SS RO-45
SS RO-45 launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Challenger

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Onnekotan-jima at 136,47

Japanese Ships
SS RO-45, hits 16, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CL Richmond, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Hickox
DD Saufley
DD John Rodgers
DD Porterfield

SS RO-45 launches 4 torpedoes at CL Richmond
DD Saufley attacking submerged sub ....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1978
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/27/2018 8:04:32 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Oct 5, 1944

One other sub hit on an xAK but nothing serious in the sights this day.

More B-29-1 go for Paramushiro, and more end up in the drink. Looks like 4-5 lost on the day.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 5, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Paramushiro-jima , at 137,47

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 41 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 16
J2M5 Jack x 7
N1K2-J George x 5
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 9
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 16
Ki-84b Frank x 12

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 7 damaged
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 destroyed, 10 damaged
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Paramushiro-jima , at 137,47

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 60 NM, estimated altitude 46,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 11
J2M5 Jack x 6
N1K2-J George x 5
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 5
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 15
Ki-84b Frank x 10

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 2 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x P-38J Lightning sweeping at 44000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Onnekotan-jima at 134,45

Japanese Ships
SS I-37

Allied Ships
xAK West Cape, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

xAK West Cape is sighted by SS I-37
SS I-37 launches 6 torpedoes at xAK West Cape
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1979
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 5/27/2018 8:38:25 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Oct 6, 1944

Big sweeps at Wakkanai. The Allies get the better of it today at about 2:1.

Subs get a lot of cargoes and landing ships, and a few also are lost. No hits on anything important.

The Allies pick their way to Shikuka with he DS, but still linger in a zone the subs can impact. I'll keep them going for one more day at least.

In Burma a DA at Toungoo gets only a 1:7 but don't pick up heavy losses. Still, this is taking a long time and the Allies appear quite far from winning the battle. Abut 5- bombers a day go down to flak over here still too.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 6, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submarine attack near Onnekotan-jima at 133,44

Japanese Ships
SS RO-49

Allied Ships
xAK Manoa, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

xAK Manoa is sighted by SS RO-49
SS RO-49 launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Manoa

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Onnekotan-jima at 135,44

Japanese Ships
SS RO-104, hits 19, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Maury
DD Gridley
DD Craven

SS RO-104 is sighted by escort

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Sapporo at 120,51

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 46 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 7
Ki-45 KAId Nick x 8

Allied aircraft
PV-1 Ventura x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
PV-1 Ventura: 3 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Mikuma

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x PV-1 Ventura bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 6 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Onnekotan-jima at 135,45

Japanese Ships
SS RO-106

Allied Ships
LST-390, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

LST-390 is sighted by SS RO-106
SS RO-106 launches 4 torpedoes at LST-390

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Shikuka at 131,44

Japanese Ships
SS I-56

Allied Ships
AM Bellechasse, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

SS I-56 launches 6 torpedoes
Sub escapes detection

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Wakkanai , at 122,48

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 73 NM, estimated altitude 39,900 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 3
J2M3 Jack x 36
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 49
Ki-84a Frank x 79
Ki-84b Frank x 1

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 40

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 3 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 36900 feet
4 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 36900 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Wakkanai , at 122,48

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 63 NM, estimated altitude 40,300 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 3
J2M3 Jack x 28
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 44
Ki-84a Frank x 68
Ki-84b Frank x 1

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 40

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 4 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 39300 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Toungoo (57,50)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 39064 troops, 339 guns, 428 vehicles, Assault Value = 1240

Defending force 27393 troops, 290 guns, 140 vehicles, Assault Value = 652

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Allied adjusted assault: 409

Japanese adjusted defense: 3225

Allied assault odds: 1 to 7 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
515 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 63 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 11 (2 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
562 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 166 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Guns lost 21 (2 destroyed, 19 disabled)

Assaulting units:
75th Indian Brigade
111th Chindit Brigade
77th Chindit Brigade
45th Indian Brigade
50th Tank Brigade
1st Manchester Battalion
14th Indian Division
17th Indian Division
2/9th Field Regiment

Defending units:
21st Division
108th Division
26th Ind.Mixed Bde /1
Burma Area Army
115th AA Regiment
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
56th Field AA Battalion
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion
62nd JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1980
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