RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/15/2019 4:43:04 AM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Keep chipping away. He's got limited ability to rearm and refuel, and no ability to repair damage until he captures somewhere.

No replacement planes once the CVE replenishment squadrons are exhausted as well...

Au contraire. IRL the USN fleet train was massive by mid 1945 and it is equally so in AE if properly set up by the Allied player. "Somewhere" has already been captured, there is therefore no "limited ability to rearm and refuel, and no ability to repair damage". Ditto for the VR squadrons.

The Allied position will be improved once an already fully built up port/airfield is captured but he already has the real estate to tide him over until that developed base is captured.

Alfred

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 2911

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/15/2019 7:44:17 AM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller
To crack a 2000 plane CAP, you need 4000 fighters escorting ~200 bombers. 4000 fighters => ~110 groups � IJN doesn't have that many, maybe half.

Not if the dice rolls go your way:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Saipan at 114,98
...

Woah! There is more than dice rolls involved here. I guess some serious altitude mismatch happened, e.g. high CAP could not intercept low Jills? Can you share some more info about this?

Edit: I've found that attack in your AAR against Mr Kane. No additional hints there though on the specifics

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 2/15/2019 8:02:49 AM >

(in reply to Miller)

Post #: 2912

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/15/2019 9:21:42 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

... He needs a replenishing port and home base at some point soon, and if I can force some combat things might go astray from the big packed mob.

It looks like he's going into the deep North China Sea up near Korea, possibly. That presents some opportunities, but again, this is most likely the entire USN in mid-45. That's like 20 DD TFs, 10 CA/CL TFs, 5 BB TFs, and zillions of DE as well as all of the transports and landing craft that will get in the way. Any move is to break something apart and send some back to a home base listed in the Kuriles...

He already has a port much closer than the Kuriles.

If he has brought the entire mid-1945 USN fleet why would he not have brought a large fleet train as well. That fleet train, which would include AKE, TK, AR, ARD, AD, AV, can be disbanded at the small base he captured in the Ryukus to provide temporary repairs. Add a zillion of naval support squads plus engineers to build up the port/airfield quickly and presto even extensive repairs won't be a daunting task. All close to the battle zone. In the meantime his replenishment task forces can remain on station and quickly pop into the captured port to rearm/refuel.

Leave the Death Star alone. Focus on the recently lost bases which will be soon visited by enemy task forces. Let the DS accompany the invasion fleet, hit the other targets not under the DS umbrella.

Alfred

Sure. If possible that is the goal.

The base captured is without airfield and with a level 1 port. I imagine he'll quickly want more than that. And of course attempt to build it up. Even a few days without support and without a good home base though can be a challenge if he's landing elsewhere soon without knowledge of if he'll take a base quickly.

There are bases he can take quickly, but he could have already had them if he'd wanted them too.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 2913

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/15/2019 11:12:21 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

This is what CV air looked like after that turn. Not great, but some surprises, like DB groups that didn't fly at all when a TB group from the same CV did fly.

Anyway, still a lot to do there. I've just added a bunch of fighters for now since I won't be attacking anything soon.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2914

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/15/2019 11:14:33 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

May 7, 1945

An odd turn. The DS has cloaked, and I can't see which hex it's in post replay, but it's probably where the majority of search planes were downed. That is ... Search Ki-49-IIb Helen destroyed by CAP at (92,63)

An I-boat attacked a BB led surface force during the night, which was split from the mob, so he's protecting the edges thinking I might get desperate and Banzai, possibly. I've been doubting my continuation of building more subs into the late war, but this turn they returned on investment. The RO-63 put down one of the damaged LSDs and I-56 blew an LSM into a thousand tiny pieces.

The RO-112 attacked the stricken Kalinin Bay on the surface and most likely got back a few Eps from the previous day's strikes with one torpedo hit and an ammo storage explosion.

Allied subs were busy as well, with Triton sinking two E fro the same ASW TF, the first time I've seen that, but the final boat rocked the USN boat with 21 hits and she's likely done. The VP score: IJN-10 and Allies-6.

The Allies hit one rearguard ID hard from the air, doing well against the IJ bleeding CAP from Bangkok, and then beat it on the ground. I'm hoping to get it railed out of Bangkok before the Allies shock in. Everything else is away. Feel like the rebels being overrun on Hoth while trying to get the last ships out. If only there was a Death Star I could target with my three best single seat fighters and destroy the Allies for good ... wait. Um. Hmmmm.

Near Georgetown it seems the Allies may be trying to cut the rail with a forward non-base landing. Again. And they've sent a tank regiment forward to cut the North rail from Taiping toward Alor Star. I'm sending all troops from Chumpon down, but it's questionable whether they make it through. The Allies don't have a huge army here yet, so even if they don't, I could employ a fighting retreat to delay things.

On the Home Front, the Allies hit Toyama with a big B-29 strike. For the first time I can recall the bombers arrived before the sweeps, and paid the price. About 25 B-29s hit between CAP and flak on the day, and some Stang escorts also downed. Very nice. The P-47Ns did arrive, and did well today, but again, another good number of them downed. The Tojo factory is 0(30) now, but that is fine. It's an airframe I won't rebuild for, but this factory could be made into something else if I choose. In my current conservation mode that would take some minor success that would obviously lead to big delays for the Allies.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 7, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submarine attack near Amami Oshima at 97,64

Japanese Ships
SS RO-63

Allied Ships
LSD Shadwell, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage

LSD Shadwell is sighted by SS RO-63
SS RO-63 launches 4 torpedoes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Amami Oshima at 97,62

Japanese Ships
SS I-56

Allied Ships
LSM-14, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

LSM-14 is sighted by SS I-56
SS I-56 launches 6 torpedoes at LSM-14

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Kume-jima at 94,64

Japanese Ships
SS RO-112

Allied Ships
CVE Kalinin Bay, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

CVE Kalinin Bay is sighted by SS RO-112
SS RO-112 attacking on the surface
Ammo storage explosion on CVE Kalinin Bay

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Swatow at 80,66

Japanese Ships
E No.7, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
E No.64

Allied Ships
SS Triton, hits 21, on fire, heavy damage

SS Triton launches 4 torpedoes at E No.7
E No.64 fails to find sub, continues to search...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Swatow at 80,66

Japanese Ships
E No.52, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
E No.7
E No.64

Allied Ships
SS Triton

SS Triton launches 6 torpedoes at E No.52
E No.64 fails to find sub, continues to search...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 21st Division, at 55,61 , near Bangkok

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 19
Ki-84r Frank x 13
Ki-102b Randy x 4

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt I x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 4 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt I: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Amami Oshima at 96,61

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 62 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 5
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 6

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 3
F4U-1A Corsair x 4

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
DD Quality
DD Racehorse

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x P1Y2 Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Amami Oshima at 95,61

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 8
D4Y3 Judy x 18

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 7
F6F-5 Hellcat x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
D4Y3 Judy: 2 destroyed, 8 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 2 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
DD Heywood Edwards
DD Hart

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 21st Division, at 55,61 , near Bangkok

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84r Frank x 9

Allied aircraft
B-25D Mitchell x 8
Spitfire VIII x 12
Wellington Ic x 5
Wellington B.X x 9
A-20G Havoc x 26
B-24J Liberator x 4
B-25D1 Mitchell x 3
B-25J1 Mitchell x 5
B-25J11 Mitchell x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-25J11 Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
199 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-25D Mitchell bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 21st Division, at 55,61 , near Bangkok

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84r Frank x 7

Allied aircraft
B-25D Mitchell x 4
Hudson I x 6
A-20G Havoc x 14
B-25J1 Mitchell x 10
B-25J11 Mitchell x 3
P-51D Mustang x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 1 destroyed
A-20G Havoc: 1 destroyed
B-25J11 Mitchell: 1 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
81 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-25D Mitchell bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Toyama , at 112,57

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 2
N1K5-J George x 21
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 49
Ki-84b Frank x 36
Ki-102a Randy x 20

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 38
P-51D Mustang x 74

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 3 destroyed, 12 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak
P-51D Mustang: 2 destroyed

Ki-44-IIc Tojo factory hits 31

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Toyama , at 112,57

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 2
N1K5-J George x 14
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 41
Ki-84b Frank x 36
Ki-102a Randy x 13

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 3 destroyed, 9 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Toyama , at 112,57

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 60 NM, estimated altitude 46,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 2
N1K5-J George x 5
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 35
Ki-84b Frank x 27
Ki-102a Randy x 5

Allied aircraft
P-47N Thunderbolt x 67

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 3 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 7 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-102a Randy: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47N Thunderbolt: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x P-47N Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet *
12 x P-47N Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet *
11 x P-47N Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet *

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Hakodate at 119,53

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 65 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 23
A7M2 Sam x 4
J2M5 Jack x 1
N1K5-J George x 19
Ki-84r Frank x 23
Ki-100-II Tony x 18

Allied aircraft
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 27

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 4 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 55,61 (near Bangkok)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 11093 troops, 288 guns, 486 vehicles, Assault Value = 9872

Defending force 10921 troops, 99 guns, 31 vehicles, Assault Value = 230

Allied adjusted assault: 189

Japanese adjusted defense: 31

Allied assault odds: 6 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(-), disruption(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
4022 casualties reported
Squads: 67 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 97 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 11 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 22 (18 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 7 (5 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units retreated 1

Allied ground losses:
51 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
11th (East African) Division
5th Chinese Corps
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
29th British Brigade
3rd Commando Brigade
23rd Indian Division
3rd New Chinese Corps
40th Infantry Division
7th Australian Division
3rd Cavalry Regiment
1st New Chinese Corps
14th Indian Division
754th Tank Battalion
27th Infantry Division
9th Indian Division
I Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
6th Australian Division
Americal Infantry Division
5th Indian Division
32nd Infantry Division
7th Indian Division
41st Infantry Division
18th British Division
11th Indian Division
19th Motorised Division
9th Australian Division
8th Mahratta AT Gun Regiment
21st Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
2/11th Field Regiment
97th Field Artillery Battalion
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
8th Medium Regiment
XXXIII Indian Corps
122nd British AT Gun Regiment
Y' Force
86th Medium Regiment
30th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
134th Medium Regiment

Defending units:
21st Division

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Very odd this CVE wasn't given any escorts. I think there might be enough around.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/15/2019 11:51:54 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2915

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/15/2019 11:20:14 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

The air losses are decent, and it's never bad when this many B-29s are hit.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2916

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/15/2019 11:23:12 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Here is a look at troops railing to Lang Son and walking to Vinh before moving into China. These are the most experienced IJA troops, with some units in the 90s.

I prepped all for Singers as I didn't know which would go that way. I now need to start getting some prep for other big bases in China.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/15/2019 11:24:02 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2917

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/15/2019 11:24:50 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Here are the troops going through Saigon on the way to China.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2918

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/15/2019 1:47:39 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Did you bombard that Island...keeping it from spawning a zillion Pt boats would be nice although I am sure they will come eventually.

Hans maybe correct in that the deathstar isn't set up merely for defense, but I bet that would be it's role until the invasion occurs. What bombers are present are on ASW & navS work?

So many guesses...still can't guess where that kitchen sink is headed to?

Any more night bombing attacks on the kitchen sink? I have never been successful with those...against a previously undamaged ship.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/15/2019 1:48:22 PM >

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2919

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/15/2019 2:27:03 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Did you bombard that Island...keeping it from spawning a zillion Pt boats would be nice although I am sure they will come eventually.

Hans maybe correct in that the deathstar isn't set up merely for defense, but I bet that would be it's role until the invasion occurs. What bombers are present are on ASW & navS work?

So many guesses...still can't guess where that kitchen sink is headed to?

Any more night bombing attacks on the kitchen sink? I have never been successful with those...against a previously undamaged ship.

Yes. Did I not mention that?

The cruisers went in, and got some hits. I know it won't stop it forever, but he won't have a field tomorrow either.

No night bombing. I've stopped that for now.

He does have some bombers, but he's lost a good 70-80 in just search and ASW losses already. He had virtually no extended search up this turn. Unless something is going on that I don't see he has no DL on the KB or any of the surrounding TFs.

Whatever has happened he is also in range of Wakkanai and could add bombers and/or fighters form over there if depleted as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Naval bombardment of Kume-jima at 94,65

Japanese Ships
CA Kumano
CA Mikuma
CA Nachi
CA Myoko
CA Atago

Allied ground losses:
207 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 11 (1 destroyed, 10 disabled)
Vehicles lost 20 (4 destroyed, 16 disabled)

Port hits 11
Port supply hits 2

CA Kumano firing at 25th Infantry Division
E13A1 Jake acting as spotter for CA Mikuma
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2920

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/16/2019 6:59:38 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

May 8, 1945

The Allies look lie they're hedging bets and land on another island, Iriomote near Formosa with a Marine ID. They tried a small APD drop earlier but I reinforced. The Marines will defeat the regiment there now, but there are 5 forts, so it may take a few days. This base has fields 2 and port 1 so will be more serviceable, ad farther from the HI.

A few short range strikes suddenly are enveloped by DS CAP as again the mob zags back South. I'll just turn everything off for a while. This is his goal of course. It's all meant to eat up strikes and entice me to turn them off so ops can move freely even without DS cover. This turn lost 90 strike and escort to about 25 for the Allies.

The one caveat is that all of this takes time. We're nearly 1/3 through May 45 and the IJ still holds a 2k+ VP lead. Completely beyond my expectations for this game.

Where will the Allies land the BIG ONE?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 8, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near Daito Shoto at 98,68

Japanese Ships
E No.37, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
E No.49

Allied Ships
SS Boarfish, hits 15, heavy damage

SS Boarfish launches 6 torpedoes at E No.37

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Iriomote at 89,65

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N2a Jill x 29
N1K2-J George x 17
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 22

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 9
FM-2 Wildcat x 9
F4U-1A Corsair x 10
F4U-1D Corsair x 29
F6F-5 Hellcat x 34

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2a Jill: 10 destroyed, 5 damaged
B6N2a Jill: 1 destroyed by flak
N1K2-J George: 4 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 8 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
DE Richard W. Suesens
xAK Cape Saunders, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
APA Feland
LSI(L) Empire Pride
APA Ormsby
LSI(L) Australia Star

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x B6N2a Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Iriomote (89,65)

TF 582 troops unloading over beach at Iriomote, 89,65

Allied ground losses:
190 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 47 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 49 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 17 (1 destroyed, 16 disabled)
Vehicles lost 10 (0 destroyed, 10 disabled)

0.5in M2HB AAMG x4 dropped into water during unload of 6th Marine Div /6
13 troops of a USMC Rifle Squad 44 lost in surf during unload of 6th Marine Div /13

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Iriomote (89,65)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2492 troops, 20 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 73

Defending force 22573 troops, 297 guns, 201 vehicles, Assault Value = 695

Japanese ground losses:
3 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
41st Ind.Mixed Regiment
III/84th Naval Guard Unit

Defending units:
503rd Parachute Rgt /2
XI Corps Combat Engineer Regiment
6th Marine Div /3
2/16th Field Rgt /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2921

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/16/2019 9:28:41 AM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Keep chipping away. He's got limited ability to rearm and refuel, and no ability to repair damage until he captures somewhere.

No replacement planes once the CVE replenishment squadrons are exhausted as well...

Au contraire. IRL the USN fleet train was massive by mid 1945 and it is equally so in AE if properly set up by the Allied player. "Somewhere" has already been captured, there is therefore no "limited ability to rearm and refuel, and no ability to repair damage". Ditto for the VR squadrons.

The Allied position will be improved once an already fully built up port/airfield is captured but he already has the real estate to tide him over until that developed base is captured.

Alfred

The fleet train is significant in size, but limited in ability by ops points. If Allied ships are in continual heavy combat it will make rearming/refuelling much more difficult.

- Tenders are limited in their ability to rearm by ops points.
- Tankers are limited in their ability to refuel by ops points and fuel cargo.
- Repairs are limited to minor damage, except if CR has brought a ARD. Given the speed of the operation I doubt this.

With VR squadrons, once the initial excess planes are flown off, there's no way for the CVE's to draw replacements.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 2922

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/16/2019 11:59:22 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Keep chipping away. He's got limited ability to rearm and refuel, and no ability to repair damage until he captures somewhere.

No replacement planes once the CVE replenishment squadrons are exhausted as well...

Au contraire. IRL the USN fleet train was massive by mid 1945 and it is equally so in AE if properly set up by the Allied player. "Somewhere" has already been captured, there is therefore no "limited ability to rearm and refuel, and no ability to repair damage". Ditto for the VR squadrons.

The Allied position will be improved once an already fully built up port/airfield is captured but he already has the real estate to tide him over until that developed base is captured.

Alfred

The fleet train is significant in size, but limited in ability by ops points. If Allied ships are in continual heavy combat it will make rearming/refuelling much more difficult.

- Tenders are limited in their ability to rearm by ops points.
- Tankers are limited in their ability to refuel by ops points and fuel cargo.
- Repairs are limited to minor damage, except if CR has brought a ARD. Given the speed of the operation I doubt this.

With VR squadrons, once the initial excess planes are flown off, there's no way for the CVE's to draw replacements.

I'm sure he's getting good advice in his AAR, but he's also just done something similar against JIII and probably has ideas no how to improve.

He's gone for two bases. One is going to provide some immediate air cover. Both are in range of big IJ fields, so aren't secure for long term options, just a quick retreat or return to base cover, and he can change orders the next day again.

Two things make sense.

1. He needs a landing on the mainland somewhere or on the Home Islands. Other islands aren't going to cut it in the long term, and he needs to be concerned about delays to the final objective.

2. He would be well established for anything once a base is captured that has a repair yard and big port capacity.

There are many spots on the mainland of China in range he could capture. Which did he prep for?

The are a few options for repair yards. Pescadores is the easiest, but also the smallest. Shanghai is obviously attractive. So is PortArthur. Probably less so Hong Kong, but it's in pretty close range too.

For replacements he does have near enough bases to be in range form LBA.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/16/2019 12:00:03 PM >

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/16/2019 1:09:13 PM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Keep chipping away. He's got limited ability to rearm and refuel, and no ability to repair damage until he captures somewhere.

No replacement planes once the CVE replenishment squadrons are exhausted as well...

Au contraire. IRL the USN fleet train was massive by mid 1945 and it is equally so in AE if properly set up by the Allied player. "Somewhere" has already been captured, there is therefore no "limited ability to rearm and refuel, and no ability to repair damage". Ditto for the VR squadrons.

The Allied position will be improved once an already fully built up port/airfield is captured but he already has the real estate to tide him over until that developed base is captured.

Alfred

The fleet train is significant in size, but limited in ability by ops points. If Allied ships are in continual heavy combat it will make rearming/refuelling much more difficult.

- Tenders are limited in their ability to rearm by ops points.
- Tankers are limited in their ability to refuel by ops points and fuel cargo.
- Repairs are limited to minor damage, except if CR has brought a ARD. Given the speed of the operation I doubt this.

With VR squadrons, once the initial excess planes are flown off, there's no way for the CVE's to draw replacements.

Ops points do not disadvantage an anchored fleet train compared to natural port operations. It is therefore irrelevant in this context.

Alfred

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Post #: 2924

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/17/2019 11:39:19 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Keep chipping away. He's got limited ability to rearm and refuel, and no ability to repair damage until he captures somewhere.

No replacement planes once the CVE replenishment squadrons are exhausted as well...

Au contraire. IRL the USN fleet train was massive by mid 1945 and it is equally so in AE if properly set up by the Allied player. "Somewhere" has already been captured, there is therefore no "limited ability to rearm and refuel, and no ability to repair damage". Ditto for the VR squadrons.

The Allied position will be improved once an already fully built up port/airfield is captured but he already has the real estate to tide him over until that developed base is captured.

Alfred

The fleet train is significant in size, but limited in ability by ops points. If Allied ships are in continual heavy combat it will make rearming/refuelling much more difficult.

- Tenders are limited in their ability to rearm by ops points.
- Tankers are limited in their ability to refuel by ops points and fuel cargo.
- Repairs are limited to minor damage, except if CR has brought a ARD. Given the speed of the operation I doubt this.

With VR squadrons, once the initial excess planes are flown off, there's no way for the CVE's to draw replacements.

You should load up the Allied side and try it.

You can replenish even BB ammo at sea (I don't think that is WAD...) with sufficient AE/AKE. Combine with AOs. There are dozens of each.

I was replenishing my big BB bombardment TFs several times each with a single AE TF that was part of my fleet. And that was just 1 of 2 AE groups, without even using all the AEs.

Basically, I think you're underestimating the limitations on the Allies. Yes, all of the things you stated are technically correct, but in practice they're not huge factors.

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Post #: 2925

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/18/2019 3:28:39 AM

Capt. Harlock

Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
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quote:

Basically, I think you're underestimating the limitations on the Allies. Yes, all of the things you stated are technically correct, but in practice they're not huge factors.

Wouldn't that be overestimating the limitations, as in underestimating the Allied capabilities?

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Post #: 2926

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/18/2019 5:57:47 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

Basically, I think you're underestimating the limitations on the Allies. Yes, all of the things you stated are technically correct, but in practice they're not huge factors.

Wouldn't that be overestimating the limitations, as in underestimating the Allied capabilities?

Errr, yes. Yes it would.

Seems you knew what I meant

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Post #: 2927

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/19/2019 6:19:13 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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So. I have a problem.

Opening the next turn I discovered that units I've put into strat mode all moved one hex and then changed to move mode with no movement orders.

I've never seen anything like this, and it's consistent across more than a dozen units leaving from about five different bases.

Attachment (1)

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/19/2019 8:46:11 AM

tolsdorff

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Perhaps the railway to their destination got cut by enemy landings/para droppings?

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/19/2019 8:55:43 AM

adarbrauner

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

Perhaps the railway to their destination got cut by enemy landings/para droppings?

Seems quite probable

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Post #: 2930

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/19/2019 10:35:46 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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It is a unit landed on the rail, at 90, 51. While a good move, it has caused a breakdown in the strat move process and revealed a buggy result.

Although the troops began moving, left their original bases, sometime in the turn replay afterward the unit landed on the rail and something flipped for the units in strat mode instructed to move past this point. They instantly went to move mode, no orders, and were stuck outside a base. All of them.

This obviously isn't a tenable situation, and although it's unfortunate, we'll have to go backwards. I'll propose a few options to Dan to keep his move intact but allow some change of orders without disrupting too much else. The easiest would be for him to land a day later there and let me change orders for units so they would all be destined for a base near that point on the non-interrupted side. Aside from that I think the only other option is to go back a full turn and allow me to change strat order destinations, but that would mean both of us doing an entire new turn, which is not good. Hopefully he has a middturn save to work from.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/19/2019 10:36:16 AM >

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/19/2019 10:45:41 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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Upriver. So sad to see it.

So, you have experienced a bit of the Obvert bug, because it has happened to me numerous times in our game. It has happened to me several times even when the rail lines haven't been cut with a 100% certainty.

It sucks, I have simply taken my lumps (which hurt) and moved on ascribing it to inferior rail lines, partisan attacks, special forces cutting rail lines, air attacks or screwed up orders.

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Post #: 2932

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/19/2019 11:13:07 AM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
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Assigning all the troubled units to strat to Pengpu would be fine as a redo, no?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
So, you have experienced a bit of the Obvert bug, because it has happened to me numerous times in our game. It has happened to me several times even when the rail lines haven't been cut with a 100% certainty.

It can happen when there are multiple possible RR routes, and the route that the unit has chosen at the start was cut. You will still see other routes as open and available, but for the unit, the damage is already done.
It is also annoying when units choose RR route through hexes with enemy units present (but hexsides still open) in favor of other routes that are fully open, and end up derailed

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Post #: 2933

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/19/2019 11:24:52 AM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Upriver. So sad to see it.

So, you have experienced a bit of the Obvert bug, because it has happened to me numerous times in our game. It has happened to me several times even when the rail lines haven't been cut with a 100% certainty.

It sucks, I have simply taken my lumps (which hurt) and moved on ascribing it to inferior rail lines, partisan attacks, special forces cutting rail lines, air attacks or screwed up orders.

Oddly, I too have experienced this even in an AI game. Never had it happen on the scale it has here though. Definitely sucks.

So the answer is to get a mulligan to freely redo movement now that you know the rail will be blocked?

Hardly seems fair to the player who risked his unit to block the rail.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 2/19/2019 11:36:57 AM >

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/19/2019 11:33:49 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

It can happen when there are multiple possible RR routes, and the route that the unit has chosen at the start was cut.

It can happen on uncut rail lines too, and rail lines into a contested city even though you always had hexside control.

The whole situation just plain sucks. In my game with Tiemanj I stuffed that river with DP & CD gun units, mines, and none of them ever worked. Inland rivers, the definition of constricted waters. Sigh. I never was invaded there though, and I had speculated earlier in this AAR that CD guns and mines might work on an invasion just not on ships traversing which is a joke when you consider the power of CD gun units against ships traversing other constricted bases.

I have no clue as to what Obvert actually had on the river...looks like no mines.

Just another frustrating end game experience.

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Post #: 2935

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/19/2019 11:40:11 AM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
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Mines don't work in rivers. I tested it thoroughly on this very river in my current game.

Hankow has been under siege for 4 years in my game and the AI kept running shipping up the river to supply it.

I tried everything to stop it to no avail. Mines simply don't work in rivers because rivers run on hex sides.

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Post #: 2936

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/19/2019 11:41:20 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Upriver. So sad to see it.

So, you have experienced a bit of the Obvert bug, because it has happened to me numerous times in our game. It has happened to me several times even when the rail lines haven't been cut with a 100% certainty.

It sucks, I have simply taken my lumps (which hurt) and moved on ascribing it to inferior rail lines, partisan attacks, special forces cutting rail lines, air attacks or screwed up orders.

Huh. I obviously didn't know the extent of the problem, but I do remember you having some kind of issue.

This is akin to a train moving out 40 miles down the track, then stopping, dumping the troops and their gear with lightning speed next to the tracks, and speeding away back home! It's not just for one unit, and it's so far from the destination I never would have considered that could happen.

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Post #: 2937

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/19/2019 11:46:07 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Upriver. So sad to see it.

So, you have experienced a bit of the Obvert bug, because it has happened to me numerous times in our game. It has happened to me several times even when the rail lines haven't been cut with a 100% certainty.

It sucks, I have simply taken my lumps (which hurt) and moved on ascribing it to inferior rail lines, partisan attacks, special forces cutting rail lines, air attacks or screwed up orders.

Oddly, I too have experienced this even in an AI game. Never had it happen on the scale it has here though. Definitely sucks.

So the answer is to get a mulligan to freely redo movement now that you know the rail will be blocked?

Hardly seems fair to the player who risked his unit to block the rail.

It's not a Mulligan. It's fixing a bug without causing problems to Dan's cutting of the rail. My units won't move beyond his block. They'll have to be set to move just short of it. It would be an agreement, like any other, to respect the plausible over the implausible and game integrity over irreparable bugs.

I won't interfere with him cutting the rail, and he'll actually know for certain I am moving in troops by rail, so if anything it gives him an intel advantage.

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Post #: 2938

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/19/2019 11:46:35 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

So the answer is to get a mulligan to freely redo movement now that you know the rail will be blocked?

Hardly seems fair to the player who risked his unit to block the rail.

My solution with Obvert was to take my lumps and play on. It has happened a lot, and at the most inopportune times, but always in China/Manchuko/Korea.

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Post #: 2939

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/19/2019 11:49:18 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

It can happen when there are multiple possible RR routes, and the route that the unit has chosen at the start was cut.

It can happen on uncut rail lines too, and rail lines into a contested city even though you always had hexside control.

The whole situation just plain sucks. In my game with Tiemanj I stuffed that river with DP & CD gun units, mines, and none of them ever worked. Inland rivers, the definition of constricted waters. Sigh. I never was invaded there though, and I had speculated earlier in this AAR that CD guns and mines might work on an invasion just not on ships traversing which is a joke when you consider the power of CD gun units against ships traversing other constricted bases.

I have no clue as to what Obvert actually had on the river...looks like no mines.

Just another frustrating end game experience.

I also tested CD guns on some straits near Para, and couldn't get them to work there with ships passing.

No mines on the river, and pretty dumb no unit on the rail hex, but in fact it wouldn't matter in this case as long as he could land the unit even if I still controlled the hex and he never kicked me out. The units would still knock out of strat mode 500-1000 miles away, which is just plain silly!

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