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RE: The King is Back - 9/6/2019 8:31:40 AM

Filitch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LORDPrometheus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Filitch
...

I'm guessing it means you won't have immediate real time communications with a submerged submarine and will instead get real time if they are close to the surface and can use SATCOM or slow comms replicating the slow low bandwidth of the ultra low frequency radio that they use to talk to submerged subs.

This does bring up the question or just how communications will work when they can be so readily disrupted. I worry it may turn subs into platforms that you just set on a mission and forget about because you can't directly control them. I guess a possible mechanic is to allow you to select a unit as your command platform and get full real-time from it and then delayed or disrupted comms from the rest

Thanks. I waiting something like this. Similar behavior is implemented in the Harpoon series. And this is more realstic. The next step to modeling of a situation awareness - to see own forces only if are detected by sensor or with a delay, such delay will simulate report on location.

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Post #: 91

RE: The King is Back - 9/6/2019 4:53:46 PM

JPFisher55

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I attempted to run "Desert Storm - Instant Thunder (KTO & Eastern Iraq)" by Kennetho using his latest version. My new computer has an Intel I-9 9900K processor with 32 GB ram. Yet, the scenario ran somewhat slow and after one-half hour of game time it was almost stalled and refused to create a saved game file.

I am wondering if CMO will handle these monster scenarios better than CMANO. If so, I'll put off playing monster scenarios until CMO comes out.

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Post #: 92

RE: The King is Back - 9/6/2019 11:57:58 PM

LargeDiameterBomb

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This is definitely worthy of a post.

I will definitely buy this in the first week of release, whatever the circumstances.

If there is one thing I hope that will be fixed it is the disjointed PoHs of AAA and the current endgame modifiers for AAA that overall makes AAA very underpowered under almost all circumstances, even when it historically was very effective.

At present a radar controlled Twin Oerlikon GDF-005s w Prox-fuzed PFHE ammo with a Skyguard FCS has a PoH of only 20 % at max, even if it's engaging a completely straight flying non-maneuvering target such as a SS-N-2 Styx passing at 200 meters ASL and almost straight over the pair of Oerlikon GDF-005 guns. After modifiers have been applied, expect less than 5 percent chance of a hit.

At present a pair of Twin Oerlikons GDF-005s with a first generation 1970s Skyguard fire control system with the supposedly highly effective AHEAD ammunition has a PoH of 25 % but the much more modern 2010s Skyshield system with current radar and electrooptics with the same ammunition only has a PoH of 20 %.

And where a Breda/Otobreda/Otomelara 76/62 Super Rapido will almost always end up with a 1 or 0 percent chance of hitting a target with four pre-fragmented HE rounds fitted with the same highly advanced fuze that the DART ammunition uses, even if it's a relatively large, quite non-maneuverable target at 0,5 nautical miles such as a helicopter flying at only 120 kn.

The AAA hit system is a mess and makes AAA practically useless, mostly because the max PoHs of the systems are almost always too low and the modifiers are not flexible enough. It's not realistic that there is no difference in the chance of a AAA system scoring a hit on an overflying fighter 1) if a fighter is flying at 350 kn at 305 m AGL straight at and then over a AAA system it hasn't discovered and 2) if the AAA system's location is known by the pilot and the fighter is passing at 600 m AGL 0.75 nm away.
For almost all AAA systems the final PoH will be 0 or 1 % chance of a hit anyways which makes AAA much less of a threat than what it actually was historically, for example for US forces in Vietnam.

If this would be fixed in this new Game it would make my day, no, my month.

Regardless, I will of course by the game.

< Message edited by LargeDiameterBomb -- 9/7/2019 12:02:38 AM >

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Post #: 93

RE: The King is Back - 9/7/2019 3:25:28 AM

sfbaytf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: britten

quote:

ORIGINAL: RodionHerrera

I have a feeling this will be a BIG debate in the coming months... on why CMO isn't an "upgrade" of CMANO (and by upgrade, meaning, current CMANO owners shouldn't pay for CMO in full and just pay a smaller amount instead because they feel they are just "upgrading" from being CMANO users), so here's my two cents. I actually like the fact that this is going to be a separate product, and I'm willing to shelve out money to get it.

The main reason I like that it's a new product is simple--it's completely re-written from the ground up, and thus the limitations of the old engine are gone--they took a more proactive route which means that this new engine looks forward and is more anticipatory of new miltech that might come out soon and need to be integrated into CMO. As a former computer science major, I do understand that sometimes, just trying to keep patching something up just to keep current or to keep bugs away, is not always a good solution--sometimes rewriting things from the ground up with more efficient code and algos can really make software shine.

Another reason is that I do like to see the old CMANO still exist as-is (and hopefully with continual support from Matrix/Slitherine/WS) because it's still a great game as it is.

One final reason why I like CMO to be a separate product is to support the devs. This is a niche product, and unlike what teenaged gamers nowadays want in a game, CMANO/CMO is not that "in demand" and thus I would think it's hard for a company like MatrixGames to really sell and market such a niche product, and they really need the support of the community so that they can keep on improving.

To those among you here who are fans of the ARMA series of games, this situation is akin to how Arma 2 users felt when Arma 3 was announced--they secretly wished that somehow, Arma 3 was just an "improvement" of Arma 2, and that they, the players wouldn't have to pay a FULL price for a new product and rather just pay a smaller fee and receive the new Arma 3 as an "upgrade"... that never happened, and I think it was for the good of the incoming product, and now it's clear that Arma 3 being a separate product that users pay separately for, was a good decision.

This is an excellent post. I totally agree and already reserved money for C:MO. I am sure it will be a great success.

I paid $125 for similar highly realistic simulator that is used by the military and is probably an even more niche product-Steel Beasts Pro. It recently came out with a major upgrade that changes the sim and did charge a small fee that I was happy to pay. There also wasn't a separate product that added feature that you had to purchase separately either.

At the end of the day it would be nice to get a discounted price for the upgrade to CMANO and the TacView add-on. Whether that will happen remains to be seen, but I suspect that there will be plenty who will pay whatever it takes.

As for the base game and especially TacView-will that be easily moddable? One thing I really like about games like Total War and Steam workshop is the mods. I'm certain if Tac View is easily modable we will see some really great mods for it.

The only other thing I really want is MULTIPLAYER. It sounds like the existing CMANO already has TAC View-but only for the military or defense agencies. Is multiplayer also already available for the military or defense agency versions?

(in reply to britten)

Post #: 94

RE: The King is Back - 9/7/2019 3:50:47 AM

gennyo

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My upgrade to 6th Gen Core cpus comes at the right time.

All I hope for the new version is proper simulation of Soviet SAM systems, like pure command guidance and antiair missile command centers (they had datalinks for multiple missile site integration and information sharing). In proper hands, these old missiles can combine with advance radar systems and bring much surprise to opponent, like serbia's shotdown of F-117).

...and a more advanced interface for unit editing? I want my AEGIS battleship without using INI files.

...and a light color interface for laptop use? I play this on commute bus.

Thanks for all the works now and future.

(in reply to sfbaytf)

Post #: 95

RE: The King is Back - 9/7/2019 5:48:59 AM

Starstruck

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Outstanding news! Looking forward to the release. Thanks for all the work on this excellent and growing simulation.

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Post #: 96

RE: The King is Back - 9/7/2019 6:37:43 AM

Dimitris

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DONNIE67
Hi

I have a question regarding chains of war. Will all features be available or only those for the CE. I recall there were a few features like comms jamming that were reserved for Pro use.

Thank you and best wishes.

This time around we are also including several features that were previously PE-only (Support for real-time streaming to Tacview, the LOS tool, the ability to merge scenarios, and customizable aircraft formations). However, the other PE-only features remain PE-only.

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Post #: 97

RE: The King is Back - 9/7/2019 6:46:10 AM

Dimitris

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf
As for the base game and especially TacView-will that be easily moddable? One thing I really like about games like Total War and Steam workshop is the mods. I'm certain if Tac View is easily modable we will see some really great mods for it.

Tacview is quite moddable. You can add your own custom 3D models, terrain elevation files, and map textures. We will explain how to do this when we talk more about this feature.

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Post #: 98

RE: The King is Back - 9/7/2019 8:43:45 AM

morphin

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I see from the printscreens that the development has started already early
So it seems to me it could be released in near future..... (maybe already this year)

So i hope no wait for several years i hope

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Post #: 99

RE: The King is Back - 9/7/2019 10:07:46 AM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris
...the ability to merge scenarios...

Sorry, what does this mean?

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Post #: 100

RE: The King is Back - 9/7/2019 10:26:48 AM

AKar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris
...the ability to merge scenarios...

Sorry, what does this mean?

From PE v1.14.5 announcement:

quote:

New scenario editor feature: merge multiple scenarios. This brand-new feature allows bringing together multiple scenario files and combining their elements into a single scenario. This ability can be leveraged in a number of creative ways; for example, storing the ORBATs, properties and regular missions (patrols etc.) of entire sides in template scenarios and then merging them to produce the actual working scenario. It also allows multiple persons to collaborate on different parts of a scenario before integrating them, thus boosting production & analysis throughput.

It's probably the same idea in....Command v2.

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 101

RE: The King is Back - 9/7/2019 10:39:04 AM

Gunner98

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quote:

From PE v1.14.5 announcement:

quote:New scenario editor feature: merge multiple scenarios. This brand-new feature allows bringing together multiple scenario files and combining their elements into a single scenario. This ability can be leveraged in a number of creative ways; for example, storing the ORBATs, properties and regular missions (patrols etc.) of entire sides in template scenarios and then merging them to produce the actual working scenario. It also allows multiple persons to collaborate on different parts of a scenario before integrating them, thus boosting production & analysis throughput.

It's probably the same idea in....Command v2.

That would be fantastic! Very nice.

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Post #: 102

RE: The King is Back - 9/8/2019 12:52:45 AM

ProdigyofMilitaryPride

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My impressions on Command Modern Operations so far?

It's destined to be bigger and better than the original! Especially with the TAC-View and with the ground operations getting a big ol' boost! Though would I have to get a license for the PE features and pay for that as well?

And what's more, owners of the first game'll get a discount! Though that does bring me to my first question. Is the discount for Matrix Games and/or Steam users?

Could dynamic campaigns be in the cards? The kind that are determined by the kind of success in one mission that carries over to the next?

And combining multiple scenario files into one and their properties? Sounds like a Falcon 4.0-styled campaign scenario to me...

Would I be answering my own question if Platform creation wasn't available?

< Message edited by ProdigyofMilitaryPride -- 9/8/2019 12:58:53 AM >

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RE: The King is Back - 9/8/2019 1:01:13 AM

pgatcomb

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I have a question to tack onto one asked earlier: Since the ground model has improved so much, will we be able to carry and reload ammunition in the field? Anyone who has had a big tank battle in CMANO can attest to the lack of fire discipline and ammo conservation with tanks.

(in reply to ProdigyofMilitaryPride)

Post #: 104

RE: The King is Back - 9/8/2019 10:46:56 AM

Gunner98

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quote:

will we be able to carry and reload ammunition in the field?

You can do that now by grouping the land units with a magazine and locking the units to not move away from it. But lets hope the fire discipline is improved.

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Post #: 105

RE: The King is Back - 9/8/2019 4:29:55 PM

ProdigyofMilitaryPride

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quote:

This time around we are also including several features that were previously PE-only (Support for real-time streaming to Tacview, the LOS tool, the ability to merge scenarios, and customizable aircraft formations). However, the other PE-only features remain PE-only.

Oh, I'm sorry. Those other PE-only features (such as platform creation) would remain as such. The Tacview, LOS tool, scenario-merging and customizable aircraft formations are included in the consumer release - I getcha.

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Post #: 106

RE: The King is Back - 9/8/2019 8:12:18 PM

DetlefKroeze

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Fantastic news, looking forward to it!

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Post #: 107

RE: The King is Back - 9/8/2019 10:11:49 PM

guanotwozero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LORDPrometheus
...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Filitch
...

I'm guessing it means you won't have immediate real time communications with a submerged submarine and will instead get real time if they are close to the surface and can use SATCOM or slow comms replicating the slow low bandwidth of the ultra low frequency radio that they use to talk to submerged subs.

This does bring up the question or just how communications will work when they can be so readily disrupted. I worry it may turn subs into platforms that you just set on a mission and forget about because you can't directly control them. I guess a possible mechanic is to allow you to select a unit as your command platform and get full real-time from it and then delayed or disrupted comms from the rest

We don't necessarily need a command unit - just an ability to talk to "back home" via sat. Or if no sat capability, be in comms with a unit that has. However, the ability to share situation awareness/targetting information should depend on open comms i.e. disruption would prevent this. So an out-of-comms sub may detect an enemy, but can't share this info without going to PD and risking detection. On its mission (with whatever doctrine) it may well attack the enemy autonomously, though. Similar restrictions could apply to surface/air units which are out-of-comms for some reason.

If you've ever played the Combat Mission games, they do battlefield comms quite well - as player you are aware where enemies are if detected by any friendly unit, but to any one unit they may not be targettable unless directly observed. Only certain units can perform indirect fire or provide suitable targetting info. However, there are no missions or non-reactive autonomy, and all friendly units are always visible.

Similarly a recent CMANO update means an AEW plane may detect an enemy using its search radar and share that info, but can't supply targetting data to another unit; an interceptor must use its own fire control radar to guide a missile to target.

Comms restrictions imply that an out-of-comms (with home) unit should not reveal on the map any enemy it detects until it's back in comms - not even reveal if it's going offensive/defensive. As such it makes sense that subs should periodically get back in comms, and new doctrines may be required e.g. to report an enemy detection if used as a picket.

That also means that out-of-comms friendly units should disappear from the map or be replaced by "estimates", unless they're detected by other in-comms friendly units.

Edit:
Of course, for pre-satellite era scenarios having a command vessel would make a lot of sense!

< Message edited by guanotwozero -- 9/8/2019 10:18:11 PM >

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Post #: 108

RE: The King is Back - 9/9/2019 1:54:28 AM

ProdigyofMilitaryPride

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A new question, if I may...

Will specific ground units require fuel like tanks or jeeps?

EDIT: And will certain vehicles have defensive measures like reactive armor and defense systems like the Trophy?

< Message edited by ProdigyofMilitaryPride -- 9/9/2019 4:47:34 AM >

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Post #: 109

RE: The King is Back - 9/9/2019 5:09:44 PM

LORDPrometheus

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You bring up a good point. Will there be a more detailed armor and health system for ground units? In CMANO there is a very basic armor system that is limited to being usable by structures mostly and damage is mantle done via flat values with some weapons having penetrator traits. What would be nice to see especially with the improved ground combat is more specific armor details for ground units such that a tank can survive lots of shells to the front (depending on type of course) but a single hellfire to the top will knock it out. This will also reduce the current ability of a .50 cal being able to kill a building with enough bullets

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Post #: 110

RE: The King is Back - 9/9/2019 8:20:14 PM

ARCNA442

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

This time around we are also including several features that were previously PE-only (Support for real-time streaming to Tacview, the LOS tool, the ability to merge scenarios, and customizable aircraft formations). However, the other PE-only features remain PE-only.

I could see this being a massive step forward for increasing the realism of air combat.

Will it also add the ability to create formations of different aircraft types and load outs?

(in reply to Dimitris)

Post #: 111

RE: The King is Back - 9/9/2019 10:55:04 PM

BDukes

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Awesome news! Maybe can give reviews at Rocks, Papers, Shotguns!

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Post #: 112

RE: The King is Back - 9/10/2019 3:23:27 AM

ProdigyofMilitaryPride

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Meanwhile, I suppose platform creation won't be in the consumer version of the game?

And are dynamic campaigns a possibility as well? The kind I stated where one success would determine the advantages or disadvantages you'd get in the next one?

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Post #: 113

RE: The King is Back - 9/10/2019 4:34:37 AM

Dimitris

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProdigyofMilitaryPride

Meanwhile, I suppose platform creation won't be in the consumer version of the game?

And are dynamic campaigns a possibility as well? The kind I stated where one success would determine the advantages or disadvantages you'd get in the next one?

Every large enough Command scenario (one in which the player has enough time and resources to plan and execute multiple missions, that is) is effectively a self-contained dynamic campaign.

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Post #: 114

RE: The King is Back - 9/11/2019 1:32:20 AM

ExNusquam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProdigyofMilitaryPride

Meanwhile, I suppose platform creation won't be in the consumer version of the game?

And are dynamic campaigns a possibility as well? The kind I stated where one success would determine the advantages or disadvantages you'd get in the next one?

Since Lua K/Vs can be carried between scenarios in a campaign, this is already partially doable for dedicated scenario designers.

(in reply to ProdigyofMilitaryPride)

Post #: 115

RE: The King is Back - 9/11/2019 11:38:51 PM

tjhkkr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProdigyofMilitaryPride
Meanwhile, I suppose platform creation won't be in the consumer version of the game?
And are dynamic campaigns a possibility as well? The kind I stated where one success would determine the advantages or disadvantages you'd get in the next one?

Every large enough Command scenario (one in which the player has enough time and resources to plan and execute multiple missions, that is) is effectively a self-contained dynamic campaign.

Now that is a fantastic idea!

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Post #: 116

RE: The King is Back - 9/11/2019 11:39:41 PM

tjhkkr

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Weather?

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Post #: 117

RE: The King is Back - 9/12/2019 12:55:22 AM

SilentHunter

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I spent months trying to get custom overlays to work but ran in to limitation regarding max sizes at high resolutions. Interest to see how detailed/good the new world generation will be as that would bring me back to the game in a heartbeat. Currently I just can't get immersed in the blurry textures and icons representing units, more screenshots please !

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Post #: 118

RE: The King is Back - 9/13/2019 3:12:36 AM

ProdigyofMilitaryPride

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I'd like to reiterate a question I asked in another thread:
Will the new AI have behavior that can turn on/off radars to fend off ARMs, dynamic submarine dive/surfacing, etc.?

< Message edited by ProdigyofMilitaryPride -- 9/13/2019 5:59:19 AM >

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Post #: 119

RE: The King is Back - 9/13/2019 11:16:28 AM

Galahad78

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProdigyofMilitaryPride

I'd like to reiterate a question I asked in another thread:
Will the new AI have behavior that can turn on/off radars to fend off ARMs, dynamic submarine dive/surfacing, etc.?

IIRC, there will the possibility to code new AIs through LUA, so we could get realistic IADS behaviours down the line.

(in reply to ProdigyofMilitaryPride)

Post #: 120

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