Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Just to stick my toe in the water here, it seems( I have no real knowledge ) that each SHIP checks the DL when it is time for it to fire. That would explain why all ships seem to fire at one or two blazing ships. I would think it better if at the start of a combat round the entire TF select targets for each firing ship. You might still get most ships firing at a few targets but at least the DL levels should be fairly even at the start.

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I'm with you on the reality vein, buddy. That's why this thread exists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kaiser73
And please guys, let's be realistic. why defending always everything in WITP. i love this game, but this doesn't mean we have to defend the undefendable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Well, In my game the dirty sons of.....the Rising Sun, have decided to invade the Canal months early (4/29/42). Fortunately, I had a US Cruiser/Destroyer TF present. Here are the combat Results.

Day Time Surface Combat, near Lunga at 67,97

Japanese Ships
AP Arizana Maru
AP Eiko Maru, Shell hits 2, on fire
AP Kisaragi Maru, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Somedono Maru, Shell hits 48, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis
CL Detroit
CL St. Louis
CL Phoenix
DD Mugford
DD Ralph Talbot
DD Henley
DD Dale
DD Aylwin
DD Allen
DD Litchfield

Japanese ground losses:
556 casualties reported
Guns lost 14

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Somedono Maru was pounded into driftwood, by 8, 6 and 5 inch shells. However, as she became increasingly hit, the ships shifted targets, crippling 1 other merchie and damaging another. A Result like this, in a combat I didn't even expect, I can live with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko
Once again, it's not 26 ships!!

Only the ships that are "named" during the combat animation are seen! Others remain unseen, undetected. Your little virtual AI admiral thought he was engaging 3 or 4 ships. He, for example, sunk 2 outright, and left other two in what he believed was "sinking state". He never knew there were another 22 AKs in that TF or hex.

Now you may complain about *detection* routines, but *combat* routines themselves seem generally OK to me. A small tweak here and there would be welcome perhaps, but it's not a show stopper.

O.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735
I haven't seen results in my games that seem rediculous when looking at surface battles (non-PT). If I had the results of the combat that started this thread, I'd write it off as: The transports took an awful beating by air. So, they were completely scattered throughout 60 square miles because of the air attacks. I was pretty damn lucky to kill 2 to 4 of them with my surface force

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Well, In my game the dirty sons of.....the Rising Sun, have decided to invade the Canal months early (4/29/42). Fortunately, I had a US Cruiser/Destroyer TF present. Here are the combat Results.

Day Time Surface Combat, near Lunga at 67,97

Japanese Ships
AP Arizana Maru
AP Eiko Maru, Shell hits 2, on fire
AP Kisaragi Maru, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Somedono Maru, Shell hits 48, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis
CL Detroit
CL St. Louis
CL Phoenix
DD Mugford
DD Ralph Talbot
DD Henley
DD Dale
DD Aylwin
DD Allen
DD Litchfield

Japanese ground losses:
556 casualties reported
Guns lost 14

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Somedono Maru was pounded into driftwood, by 8, 6 and 5 inch shells. However, as she became increasingly hit, the ships shifted targets, crippling 1 other merchie and damaging another. A Result like this, in a combat I didn't even expect, I can live with.

This is VERY typical of what I have consistantly seen. It's a bit excessive.

quote:

Your example is night combat. Unfortunately, in WITP, I haven't had enough daylight combats to really give an opinion. I personally think night combats are being done well. But, I think the gist of this thread is daylight surface combats vs unescorted AP's.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Well, In my game the dirty sons of.....the Rising Sun, have decided to invade the Canal months early (4/29/42). Fortunately, I had a US Cruiser/Destroyer TF present. Here are the combat Results.

Day Time Surface Combat, near Lunga at 67,97

Japanese Ships
AP Arizana Maru
AP Eiko Maru, Shell hits 2, on fire
AP Kisaragi Maru, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Somedono Maru, Shell hits 48, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis
CL Detroit
CL St. Louis
CL Phoenix
DD Mugford
DD Ralph Talbot
DD Henley
DD Dale
DD Aylwin
DD Allen
DD Litchfield

Japanese ground losses:
556 casualties reported
Guns lost 14

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Somedono Maru was pounded into driftwood, by 8, 6 and 5 inch shells. However, as she became increasingly hit, the ships shifted targets, crippling 1 other merchie and damaging another. A Result like this, in a combat I didn't even expect, I can live with.

This is VERY typical of what I have consistantly seen. It's a bit excessive.

Let me get this straight. Four unescorted 12-knot merchants sailing directly towards
eleven 30+ knot combat vessels in broad daylight and none are sunk? One isn't even
engaged? And you call that "excessive"??? What would you view as "normal"??? Do
you think one of the AK's should have rammed a DD? I would charicterize the results
above as pitifully dissappointing from the Allied side; and a cause for joyous celebration
by the Japanese.

quote:

Somedono Maru

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Your example is night combat. Unfortunately, in WITP, I haven't had enough daylight combats to really give an opinion. I personally think night combats are being done well. But, I think the gist of this thread is daylight surface combats vs unescorted AP's.

Daylight on the way ...

Day Time Surface Combat at 61,74

Japanese Ships
AK Hakkai Maru, Shell hits 30, and is sunk
AK Hakodate Maru, Shell hits 27, on fire, heavy damage (sunk immediately after combat ended)
AK Hakonesan Maru
AK Hakubasan Maru

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis
CL Cleveland
CL Montpelier
DD Anthony
DD Aulick
DD Charles Ausburne
DD Charles Badger
DD Beale
DD Bell

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Same test ... better weather.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat at 61,74

Japanese Ships
AK Hakkai Maru, Shell hits 32, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage (sunk immediately after)
AK Hakodate Maru, Shell hits 2
AK Hakonesan Maru, Shell hits 42, and is sunk
AK Hakubasan Maru, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage (88/42/30)

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis
CL Cleveland
CL Montpelier
DD Anthony
DD Aulick
DD Charles Ausburne
DD Charles Badger
DD Beale
DD Bell

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

I ran similar tests a long time ago. My findings are generally similar to the thread originator. In general comprable sized or larger sized transport TF's will escape with only light or at best moderate losses regardless of circumstances. Primary reason for this is that the engine treats Surface TF vs Transport TF 'as' Surface vs Surface. i.e. they exchange a few rounds of fire, then mutually break off.

An exception can be when a large surface TF engages a small transport TF...under those circumstances you can achieve a large degree of damage vs the TF.

Based on my test findings, the recommendation i forwarded (and currently on the wish list) is that it be made that surface TF vs transport TF be made more aggressive to simulate a commander's realization that he has in a sense, "hit the jackpot" and realizes he has achieved the goal of breaking through to a vulnerable transport fleet, instead of treating said TF as a combat TF with comprable firepower (and a chance to sig damage you in return)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Day Time Surface Combat at 61,74

Japanese Ships
AO Hayasui, Shell hits 39, and is sunk
TK Choran Maru, Shell hits 3 (21/6/6)
TK Gen'yo Maru, Shell hits 66, and is sunk
TK Kyokuto Maru
TK Nihon Maru, Shell hits 6, on fire (42/13/49)
TK San Pedro Maru
AK Genoa Maru
AK Getuyo Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire (55/21/17)
AK Glasgow Maru
AK Gosyu Maru
AK Goyo Maru
AK Hague Maru
AK Hakkai Maru
AK Hakodate Maru
AK Hakonesan Maru
AK Hakubasan Maru
AO Medan Maru, Shell hits 12, on fire, heavy damage (83/72/49)
TK Kyokuho, Shell hits 4, on fire (42/26/36)

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis
CL Cleveland
CL Montpelier
DD Anthony
DD Aulick
DD Charles Ausburne
DD Charles Badger
DD Beale
DD Bell

More ships ... only some ships spotted (weather Rain)

Here's my question ... do you expect more of those ships to be sunk? Like all of them?

I need to know what you expect to happen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Day Time Surface Combat at 61,74

Japanese Ships
AO Hayasui, Shell hits 39, and is sunk
TK Choran Maru, Shell hits 3 (21/6/6)
TK Gen'yo Maru, Shell hits 66, and is sunk
TK Kyokuto Maru
TK Nihon Maru, Shell hits 6, on fire (42/13/49)
TK San Pedro Maru
AK Genoa Maru
AK Getuyo Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire (55/21/17)
AK Glasgow Maru
AK Gosyu Maru
AK Goyo Maru
AK Hague Maru
AK Hakkai Maru
AK Hakodate Maru
AK Hakonesan Maru
AK Hakubasan Maru
AO Medan Maru, Shell hits 12, on fire, heavy damage (83/72/49)
TK Kyokuho, Shell hits 4, on fire (42/26/36)

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis
CL Cleveland
CL Montpelier
DD Anthony
DD Aulick
DD Charles Ausburne
DD Charles Badger
DD Beale
DD Bell

More ships ... only some ships spotted (weather Rain)

Here's my question ... do you expect more of those ships to be sunk? Like all of them?

I need to know what you expect to happen.

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

Given poor visability (rain) and an excess in defender numbers, the only real problem I
have with the result's you show is that the ships that were sighted and hit should have
taken a worse beating. With Nine attackers concentraiting on those 7 defenders, the
rest excaping makes some sense..., but those that were being "Run Down" and shot
up should probably have suffered more sinkings.

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

quote:

I hadn't read anything simlar from you, Frag, and so didn't realize this was your position. However, I would argue something of this magnitude ought not to have gotten out of beta, but have been put on the old "wish list" a year or so ago.