quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

You know, looking at the new maps for China and planning on how to take out the resources (as the Japanese player) makes me realize how limited the WIF FE China campaigns are.  You typically attack a hex only one or two hexes away from your current front line to capture a resource.  With the new maps, you have to plan how to cut off the enemy's supply while maintaining your own.  Simultaneously, you want to find an avenue of attack that avoids difficult terrain.  It is also necessary to capture the rail line if you want to use the resource yourself.

In WIF FE, I would play to take X number of resources from the Chinese.  Once the Chinese were reduced below a critical number, it was only necessary to inflict more casualties than they were capable of replacing - the war of attrition was a guaranteed way to win.  While that strategy is still viable with the new map, it requires a whole new level of operational planning that was absent previously.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ullern

My turn to be detailed:
-Nanyang one hex further northwest (should be on the railway in the gap)
-The second hex west of Nanyang which have most of the label "Han Kiang" in it, should be mountain, so should all hexes west and north of that which aren't already mountains.

quote:

A pure game balance change:
-move to resource west of Tsinan one hex east? (To make it easier for Japan to get it out late game)

quote:

I'd love to try this out now....

Nils

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

You know, looking at the new maps for China and planning on how to take out the resources (as the Japanese player) makes me realize how limited the WIF FE China campaigns are.  You typically attack a hex only one or two hexes away from your current front line to capture a resource.  With the new maps, you have to plan how to cut off the enemy's supply while maintaining your own.  Simultaneously, you want to find an avenue of attack that avoids difficult terrain.  It is also necessary to capture the rail line if you want to use the resource yourself.

In WIF FE, I would play to take X number of resources from the Chinese.  Once the Chinese were reduced below a critical number, it was only necessary to inflict more casualties than they were capable of replacing - the war of attrition was a guaranteed way to win.  While that strategy is still viable with the new map, it requires a whole new level of operational planning that was absent previously.

Steve, does this mean that you find the maps as it is becoming, to be an improvement over the WiF FE pacific scalled one ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Incy, I did not ignore you nor forgot you. I just had to digest more tons of comments [;)].

Incy> -In the recently added central mountain chain, there is a gap in the center that I don't think warrants mountains (hex NE of Nanyang).
In this area, there are wide stretches of farmland with a little "mountain" here and there.
ullern> Agree with Incy on the area north of Nanyang is relativly flat and open, but is still much higher than the areas further north and south. What about forest instead of mountain?
Froonp> I'm happy you say that. From the start I suspected that this gap should exist.

Area north and north east of Nanyang is 500-1000 m height, area east of the city is 100-200 m, south of it is 0-100 m.
There could be a "C" shaped mountain/forest range from the hex South east of Chengchow (IRL 500-1000 m) to the second-nearest Hex west of Wuhan (IRL 500-1000 m, peaks up to 1500-2000 m).

Incy> -northern rivers: Whoa, that was a bit more than I envisioned, I was imagining trimming the rivers a bit ;) I think a shourt river on either side of Tientsin might be warranted ?
ullern> I think removing the rivers made perfect sense...
Froonp> I'm adding a river hexside north of Tientsin, only because it has a river hexside on the WiF FE map :-))

Incy> -Shijazhuang sure looks like a quite big city, it's about two hexes west of Taiyuan and SW of Paoding (it looks bigger than Paoding).
Froonp> It is out of the picture, it was created in the 50s.

Incy> -Paoding should be wurther east. Relatively to Peking, it'¨s more south than west
Froonp> I agree. Did it.

Incy> -Mountains next to Peking should run southwest, not west. I suggest hex W and 2 hexes W of Peking should be mountain, maybe hex where Paoding is (was) and west of it too.
Froonp> I agree too. I added 3 Mountain hexes. Not as much as you asked for.

Incy> -Shantou (2-3 hexes on the coast east of Canton) and Dianquian (further east) seem quite large, and also look like a very good ports.
Both also has a lot of heavily populated areas around it. Deserves a port (or maybe a city?). Note that the populated areas here just go a bit inland, then comes large swaths of mountains. Dianquian is actually a small island.
Froonp> I prefer add nothing east of Canton. Just for my records, what would be the 40s names of these, Wosung. For me the first would be Swatow, but the second ?

Yep Swatou and for Dianquan/Dianqian?? I don't know. Didn't even find it in my map-indexes. As I said before, the other historical important ports from Hongkong to Hangchow were: Swatow (Shantou), Amoy (Xiamen) and Foochow (Fuzhou), All of them were treaty ports: Opened by the West with force in 19th Century, Sino-western trade centres with western city enclaves. Note that in treaty ports (the biggest one was Shanghai) the exterritoral foreign (english, french) city parts were untouched by Japanese troops until December 7th 1941.

Incy> -Kunming has a series of lakes south of it, might deserve a lake hexside
Froonp> They are too small to deserve a lake hexside. My basis here is that a hex is about 90 km wide. So a lake has to be something close to that to appear as an hexside.

Incy> -hex between lake and resource near Sining should be clear/forest?
Froonp> Geographical maps only show mountains there.

Incy> -3 hexes surrounded by river in the north look a bit strange. I can see why they're there, but maybe model it as swamp, or maybe have fewer river hexsides ? The easternmost hexside could be a lake.
Froonp> I was puzzled too when I saw them, but I think they depict the area wuite well. This is no swamp, this is only the Yellow River (what is its chinese name by the way Wosung ?) that branches off and join again multiples times.

Name of Yellow River would be Hwangho (Huanghe) if that was the question. You could write the other river(s?) in one word: Hankiang etc. Pearl River would be Chukiang. But according to Travel Survival kit, p. 195 and 2 maps, it's the name only for the delta south of Canton. The River you labeled Pearl River would be - well Hsikiang (Xijiang = Western River)

Incy> -mountains SE of Tsinan seem to small, what about making hex NW of Suchow and hex E of Tsianan mountain (or at least forest)
Froonp> I agree and I waited for this remark from the start. Being minimalist as Steve, I said nothing until someone else spotted it too. I added one mountain hex NE of Suchow. The maps warrant this. In the other places, where the rails passes, the maps show that the rails are outside the hilly terrain.

Incy> -The area between Han Kiang and Yangzee seems to have way to good terrain. My suggestion:
Hex NW+W of Wuhan (east of Han Kiang): clear->Mountain
Hex west of that: clear->forest
Hex west of that: clear->mountain
Hex west of that: forest->mountain
Hex NE of that: clear->mountain
Hex NW of that: clear->forest (linking up to forest north of river)
Froonp> I agree that it seems there is too much good terrain, but I think that the mountains here are not elevated enough or broken enough to warrant all that. Also, those modifications would widden the mountain between Wuhan & Chungking too much. What do you think for this place others ? Wosung ? Nils ?

See above: Nanyang-gap

Incy> -The mountain area west of the railroad between Canton and Changsha seems to have large areas of easier terrain in it.
My suggestion:
Hexes NW, SW of resource: mountain->forest
hex W of resource: mountain clear/forest (rugged but better than neighbouring "hills")
Hexes W & SW of Changsha: clear->forest (could be mountains too but not rugged enough)
Froonp> I think that the fact that the area is easier as you say is already shown on the map by the "valley" of 3 forest Hexes (1 hex is about 90 km) along which the railways goes. I think this area is good as it is.

Incy> -I think Kunming should be placed one hex SW, it's to close to Chungking and Kweiang.
Froonp> I think that you were completely right here. I measured the distances between Kunming and the neighboring cities :
Kunming-Hanoi : about 550 km --> 6 hexes. It is 6 hexes on the map.
Kunming-Chungking : about 625 km --> 7 hexes. It is 5 hexes on the map.
Kunming-Kweiyang : about 435 km --> 5 hexes. It is 4 hexes on the map.
So now I think that moving it where youindicate put it at the right place.
I had to redraw the Burma Road there too (the northwards bend it takes to exit Kunming is historical.
I had to move the Alpine hexside slightly southwards, and it is ok on the real maps.
I had to redraw the rail from Hanoi too.

Incy> -Kweiyang area has way to nice terrain, there isn't much terrain in the area that should be better than forest. Kweiyang itself should at least be forest and maybe mountain. The hex E and W of it should be mountain. The hex SE probably also. Hex SW is closer to forest. Hex NE could qualify as clear, the hex east of that is forest at best. 2 hexes E of Kweiyang is forest (or mountain).
Froonp> I agree with you on the general picture, but as for the area west of Wuhan, I'm reluctant to change it, because the WiF FE map has a full clear hex here, and this is quite important. What do you think for this place others ? Wosung ? Nils ?

Will be posting pictures soon after.

quote:

What about adding the only (?) provincial capital, which is not represented on the map: Kaifeng (hex east to Chengchow)? Provincial capitals per se were important political, economical, administrative and traffic centres.

The rail northeast of Taiyuan looks quite bizzare because it ends nowhere. End station was Paotow, next Hex to the east was the bigger Kweisui (Hohot /Huhehote). Hex Northwest of Peking could be Kalgan (Zhangjiakou), then much more important then Paoting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

What about adding the only (?) provincial capital, which is not represented on the map: Kaifeng (hex east to Chengchow)? Provincial capitals per se were important political, economical, administrative and traffic centres.

The rail northeast of Taiyuan looks quite bizzare because it ends nowhere. End station was Paotow, next Hex to the east was the bigger Kweisui (Hohot /Huhehote). Hex Northwest of Peking could be Kalgan (Zhangjiakou), then much more important then Paoting.

Thanks for the proposals Wosung. I added them to my Excel file of cities & terrain feature added and cities & terrain feature proposed.
Please, others, comment those cities, whether you think more would be good, or not.

I for one think that the Kaifeng city addition would be good. After all it would be just adjacent to a city already existing, so would not add much in terms of extra suplly for the chinese, but it goes the right way as to make this area a city dense area, as it is on the WiF FE map.

For the cities in the north, at the end of the rail that ends nowhere, I had put Paotow on the very first version of the map, but deleted it nearly as fast because it gives the Chinese an enormous flanking power they do not have in WiF FE.

quote:

About Paotow, I agree with Patrice. Playing Japan, with the latest version of the northern map, I would go to take out Taiyuan to secure the resource north of it. Once that city falls, any Chinese units defending the resource will be without supply and easy to mop up. Adding Paoting to the map changes everything because then the Japanese have to fight through the mountains and those nasty alpine hexsides to take the resource and push on to Paoting to prevent future counter attacks from there.

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I might suggest simply removing the spurious rail line (there is a pun here for such rail ilnes are known as 'spurs') since it doesn't add to game play whatsoever.

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Yep Swatou and for Dianquan/Dianqian?? I don't know. Didn't even find it in my map-indexes. As I said before, the other historical important ports from Hongkong to Hangchow were: Swatow (Shantou), Amoy (Xiamen) and Foochow (Fuzhou),

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

You know, looking at the new maps for China and planning on how to take out the resources (as the Japanese player) makes me realize how limited the WIF FE China campaigns are.  You typically attack a hex only one or two hexes away from your current front line to capture a resource.  With the new maps, you have to plan how to cut off the enemy's supply while maintaining your own.  Simultaneously, you want to find an avenue of attack that avoids difficult terrain.  It is also necessary to capture the rail line if you want to use the resource yourself.

In WIF FE, I would play to take X number of resources from the Chinese.  Once the Chinese were reduced below a critical number, it was only necessary to inflict more casualties than they were capable of replacing - the war of attrition was a guaranteed way to win.  While that strategy is still viable with the new map, it requires a whole new level of operational planning that was absent previously.

Steve, does this mean that you find the maps as it is becoming, to be an improvement over the WiF FE pacific scalled one ?

Yes, very much so. It should make China play more like the land combat in Europe.

quote:

The adversarial relationship between the Nationalists and the Communists is not very forcefully presented in WIF. Those two armies are engaged in a fight to the death that preceeds and succeeds the war with the Japanese. We just don't see that in WIF. One of the major concerns for both Chinese forces was not to weaken themselves so much making attacks om the Japanese that they would lose to the other side after the Japanese left.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy

China is shaping up nicely.

A few more google comments on southern china:
-The lakes north of nanking still don't look right. I think the westernmost could be moved one hexside eastwards. At the same time, the rail should be moved to go through the hex with Lake Hungtze printed in it (On google earth, the railroad is seen to head ot west from Nanking befor it curls north towards Suchow). That leaves connecting the resource to be sorted out, either by a short track or by moving it onto the track(maybe 2 hexes SW?)

Checked it again: According to my maps the rail line Nanking-Suchow-Tsingkow is "C" shaped with the 2 lakes inside "C". But there is a third big Lake in this straight line of lakes: Lake Chaoyang (Zhaoyang): It is over 100 km long and lies 200 km South of Tsinan (Jinan). The Rail should be East of this lake.

-Nanchang seems a bit far south, and according to google it's much better tucked in behing the lakes than on the map. Could it be moved one hex NW ?

Right, Nanchang is about 200 km SE of Wuhan.

-Should hex SW of Anking really be mountain ? There is a gap of farmland along the river here (but a bit narrow). Maybe forest?

I would also vote for Forest (It's one of these hexes with 50% 0-100 m. and Lakes, 50% 200-1000 m height. Maybe switch hex between Wuhan and Anking for Mountain Dabieshan (mostly 500-1000 m.)
BTW Wuhan, Anking and Nanchang should form a nearly perfect triangle.

-I think the NW edge of the hex where Lake Poyang is printed deserves a lake hexside due to the broad river and large lake here. If it is made a lake we could cut the northwestern part of lake Poyang away to avoid a long continous lake (but that might actually be warranted). There are really, really few (even halfway) decent places to cross between Anking and south of Nanchang

D'accord

-According to google, the rail between Nanking and the Hangchow Nanchang line links up much further west. It should run through the first forest, through the mountain hex, and link up in the clear hex NE of Nanchang.

According to the 1935 printed traffic-map in Tang Leang-li and according to the maps in Oxford Companion to WW2 (1937-45, 1944), p.218, 230. the direct rail Nanking - Hangchow was begun, but wasn't completed in WW2. It - again - should be "C" Shaped, but end before the hex west of Hangchow, because of a mountain-range named Tienmushan (Tianmushan, 200-1800 m).
According to Tang Leang-li, there should be 1 hex of Rail from Nanchang north to Yangtze, going East of Lake Poyang.

-Hex E or SE of Changsha should maybe be forest?

Mostly 200-500 m. Height, nowadays agricultured and forested hills.

I don't like the continous line of mountains east of Changsha, there are two low and wide east/west valleys between Nanchang and Changsha that I think would facilitate an advance between the cities.

Right with the valleys. Height 100-1500 m but 40% 100-200 m., 45% 200-500 m.



-I think the mountain west of Nanyang is not warranted. NW yes, but not W.

the hex NW and NE yes. W. no

-The rail should head out of Nanyang in NE direction, not NW

A line from NE to SW, with Nanyang on it

-Chengchow might be 1 hex to far west, in real life it's significanly eastwards of Nanyang.

About 100 Km to the East

But moving it would seriously mess up the start-line ?

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Yep Swatou and for Dianquan/Dianqian?? I don't know. Didn't even find it in my map-indexes. As I said before, the other historical important ports from Hongkong to Hangchow were: Swatow (Shantou), Amoy (Xiamen) and Foochow (Fuzhou),

Dianquan is the same as Xiamen, I was unsure what name was correct. It's an island with a city on it, plus more islands, a nice shielded bay, and dense population/more cities in a small valley around the bay.

If any of the places Foochow, Swatow would be on map, please note that they were Japanese controlled from May /June 1938 onwards. See Oxford Companion to WW2, p. 230.

Regards

quote:

According to the 1935 printed traffic-map in Tang Leang-li and according to the maps in Oxford Companion to WW2 (1937-45, 1944), p.218, 230. the direct rail Nanking - Hangchow was begun, but wasn't completed in WW2. It - again - should be "C" Shaped, but end before the hex west of Hangchow, because of a mountain-range named Tienmushan (Tianmushan, 200-1800 m).

quote:

According to Tang Leang-li, there should be 1 hex of Rail from Nanchang north to Yangtze, going East of Lake Poyang.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy

Playbalance in china is a difficult nut to crack, yes.
There have been many solutions to this in WIF editions of the past, mostly it was about limiting action limits.

-Another less finegrained solution could be that china would be limited to combined actions if Japan remains "passive". "Passive" could be defined as not having taken any hex Japan hasn't controlled earlier in the turn/the year/the game (allowing Japan to countermanouver/take back lost terrain withouth triggering chinese land actions)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Incy> -The lakes north of Nanking still don't look right.
Froonp> I agree.

Incy> I think the westernmost could be moved one hexside eastwards. At the same time, the rail should be moved to go through the hex with Lake Hungtze printed in it (On google earth, the railroad is seen to head ot west from Nanking before it curls north towards Suchow). That leaves connecting the resource to be sorted out, either by a short track or by moving it onto the track(maybe 2 hexes SW?)
Wosung> Checked it again: According to my maps the rail line Nanking-Suchow-Tsingkow is "C" shaped with the 2 lakes inside "C". But there is a third big Lake in this straight line of lakes: Lake Chaoyang (Zhaoyang): It is over 100 km long and lies 200 km South of Tsinan (Jinan). The Rail should be East of this lake.
Froonp> Did the lake as Incy said and it's great. The area was all wrong because I was too minimalist with the rail here. I did not want to change the original railways. This is far better now. The resource was moved too, but regarding WiF FE map and real life resource placemets it could have been placed nearly anywhere in the Suchow vicinity.
Froonp> I also added the lake Wosung described.

I like the lake situation very much now!

Froonp> Also, speaking of lakes, I see one on the geographical maps I have, where the Yello river meets the Wei Ho River, east of Sian. Do you think it warrants 1-2 lake hexsides ? Some sort of reversed "T" shaped lake, with a long ertical part and 2 small horizontal extensions.

Personally I would leave it as it is. It's really only a small Lake area.


Incy> -Nanchang seems a bit far south, and according to google it's much better tucked in behing the lakes than on the map. Could it be moved one hex NW ?
Wosun> Right, Nanchang is about 200 km SE of Wuhan.
Froonp> I began answering "nay", and explaining, and when I looked on the maps to make sure, I saw I was wrong. Moreover, Nanchang seems not to be placed directly on the Changsha-Hangchow railway, but a bit north of it, still linked to it. I also deleted the extra mountain there was in this hex.

Incy> -Should hex SW of Anking really be mountain ? There is a gap of farmland along the river here (but a bit narrow). Maybe forest?
Wosung> I would also vote for Forest (It's one of these hexes with 50% 0-100 m. and Lakes, 50% 200-1000 m height. Maybe switch hex between Wuhan and Anking for Mountain Dabieshan (mostly 500-1000 m.) BTW Wuhan, Anking and Nanchang should form a nearly perfect triangle.
Froonp> Well, I replaced the Mountain in Anking hex for a Forest. Even if the valley is steep here, there is a valley in most maps, so I think that making a gap in the mountains here where the Yangzee is running is fine.
Froonp> I also replaced the hex SW of Anking with a Forest, but I wonder if a Swamp would not be better reflecting the wet area ?

As it's one of these hexes with 50% 0-100 m. and Lakes, 50% 200-1000 m height, it would translate into 50% swamp 50% Forest. Then I vote for swamp.

Incy> -I think the NW edge of the hex where Lake Poyang is printed deserves a lake hexside due to the broad river and large lake here. If it is made a lake we could cut the northwestern part of lake Poyang away to avoid a long continous lake (but that might actually be warranted). There are really, really few (even halfway) decent places to cross between Anking and south of Nanchang.
Wosung> D'accord
Froonp> I don't think so for the lake because of the broad river. Otherwise, there should have been a lake all along the Yangtzee from here. It is kind of the Volga River, who is enormously wide but got no lake hexside (but should have IMO).
Froonp> Maybe putting a swamp hex in this Yangtzee curve would be the best to translate the difficulty of crossing the Yangzee here ?

So it's either lake or swamp. I'll go for swamp because its would make the map more varied.

Incy> -According to google, the rail between Nanking and the Hangchow Nanchang line links up much further west. It should run through the first forest, through the mountain hex, and link up in the clear hex NE of Nanchang
Wosung> According to the 1935 printed traffic-map in Tang Leang-li and according to the maps in Oxford Companion to WW2 (1937-45, 1944), p.218, 230. the direct rail Nanking - Hangchow was begun, but wasn't completed in WW2. It - again - should be "C" Shaped, but end before the hex west of Hangchow, because of a mountain-range named Tienmushan (Tianmushan, 200-1800 m). According to Tang Leang-li, there should be 1 hex of Rail from Nanchang north to Yangtze, going East of Lake Poyang.
Froonp> You're completely right here about the Nanking Rail. Even on the WWII maps and the rail map I have.

Perhaps I was missunderstood about Nanking to South rail line?! According to historical maps (see above), it should end before it touches the Hangchow - Nanchang line. I was not completed due to Tienmushan (Tianmushan, 200-1800 m).It was work in progress.

BTW: According to geographical maps, Anking and Hanchow should lie in the same E-W hexrow.

Incy> -Hex E or SE of Changsha should maybe be forest? I don't like the continous line of mountains east of Changsha, there are two low and wide east/west valleys between Nanchang and Changsha that I think would facilitate an advance between the cities.
Wosung> Mostly 200-500 m. Height, nowadays agricultured and forested hills. Right with the valleys. Height 100-1500 m but 40% 100-200 m., 45% 200-500 m.
Froonp> Agreed. I made hex SE a forest instead of a Mountain.

Incy> -I think the mountain west of Nanyang is not warranted. NW yes, but not W.
Wosung> The hex NW and NE yes. W. no
Froonp> I made it as you said (1 mountain NW), but I wondering.

Incy> -The rail should head out of Nanyang in NE direction, not NW.
Wosung> A line from NE to SW, with Nanyang on it
Froonp> Well, it seems about right to me going to NW. Why isn't it good ? May WWII and my railway map shows it like this.
Froonp> Wosung, you meant NW to SW, weren't you ? Chengchow is more to the west that Wuhan is. The line is like this : \

No actually for the rail I meant Chengchow - SE Hex - and the 2 rail hexes as it actually is.

Incy> -Chengchow might be 1 hex to far west, in real life it's significanly eastwards of Nanyang. But moving it would seriously mess up the start-line ?
Wosung> About 100 Km to the East
Froonp> Well here again it seems about right to me. Chengchow-Nanyang-Wuhan are or some oblique line about -10 degrees of the vertical (like this : \ ). The position of Nanyang and Chengchow inside their hex can be changed to have the line more straight, but I think the hex is right.

Wosung> Yep Swatou and for Dianquan/Dianqian?? I don't know. Didn't even find it in my map-indexes. As I said before, the other historical important ports from Hongkong to Hangchow were: Swatow (Shantou), Amoy (Xiamen) and Foochow (Fuzhou),
Incy> Dianquan is the same as Xiamen, I was unsure what name was correct. It's an island with a city on it, plus more islands, a nice shielded bay, and dense population/more cities in a small valley around the bay.
Wosung> If any of the places Foochow, Swatow would be on map, please note that they were Japanese controlled from May /June 1938 onwards. See Oxford Companion to WW2, p. 230.
Froonp> Foochow is on the map, but it does not start the 39-45 scenario in Japanese hands. It is Chinese.

I'am just referring to Oxford Companion WW2 China map, p.230.

There Foochow and Swatow are marked as Japanese bridgeheads with the dates of occupation May, June 1938 written beside them.

Remember, these were Treaty Ports with international population and interests. Probably Japanese even had Garrisons in there before the war started to protect Japanese subjects and interests as a result of 19th century diplomacy. And these forces were activated and reinforced first in 1938, due to international situation.

It's up to you to playtest and play-balance for scenario start lines and forces.

I'm posting the maps right after that.

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ORIGINAL: c92nichj

quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy

Playbalance in china is a difficult nut to crack, yes.
There have been many solutions to this in WIF editions of the past, mostly it was about limiting action limits.

-Another less finegrained solution could be that china would be limited to combined actions if Japan remains "passive". "Passive" could be defined as not having taken any hex Japan hasn't controlled earlier in the turn/the year/the game (allowing Japan to countermanouver/take back lost terrain withouth triggering chinese land actions)

quote:

This is the best suggestion I have heard so far. Japans main problem in China with the new map is not the strenght of the Chineese attacks but rather the problem to fight a mobile war risking being encircled and put out of supply.

So limiting China's ability to move into japaneese conquered territory will definately help to solve this issue.

quote:

PS. By the way, I like the way the map is shaping up it looks very beautiful.
Thanks

quote:

quote:

Incy> -Should hex SW of Anking really be mountain ? There is a gap of farmland along the river here (but a bit narrow). Maybe forest?
Wosung> I would also vote for Forest (It's one of these hexes with 50% 0-100 m. and Lakes, 50% 200-1000 m height. Maybe switch hex between Wuhan and Anking for Mountain Dabieshan (mostly 500-1000 m.) BTW Wuhan, Anking and Nanchang should form a nearly perfect triangle.
Froonp> Well, I replaced the Mountain in Anking hex for a Forest. Even if the valley is steep here, there is a valley in most maps, so I think that making a gap in the mountains here where the Yangzee is running is fine.
Froonp> I also replaced the hex SW of Anking with a Forest, but I wonder if a Swamp would not be better reflecting the wet area ?

As it's one of these hexes with 50% 0-100 m. and Lakes, 50% 200-1000 m height, it would translate into 50% swamp 50% Forest. Then I vote for swamp.

quote:

Incy> -I think the NW edge of the hex where Lake Poyang is printed deserves a lake hexside due to the broad river and large lake here. If it is made a lake we could cut the northwestern part of lake Poyang away to avoid a long continous lake (but that might actually be warranted). There are really, really few (even halfway) decent places to cross between Anking and south of Nanchang.
Wosung> D'accord
Froonp> I don't think so for the lake because of the broad river. Otherwise, there should have been a lake all along the Yangtzee from here. It is kind of the Volga River, who is enormously wide but got no lake hexside (but should have IMO).
Froonp> Maybe putting a swamp hex in this Yangtzee curve would be the best to translate the difficulty of crossing the Yangzee here ?

So it's either lake or swamp. I'll go for swamp because its would make the map more varied.

quote:

Bottom line: No Japanese offensive - no fight.

Personally I like the proposals about limiting action limits in relation to japanese offensives.

Maybe as an option in start menue, for historical play in China.
It would make playing China not very attractive, though. But that's what it was IRL.