RE: Mod for random maps (Full Version)

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Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (6/13/2008 2:07:46 AM)

Here is the first screenshot

[image]local://upfiles/12603/272B712A79FD42D19677900750EDEE07.jpg[/image]



Joshuatree -> RE: Mod for random maps (6/14/2008 5:01:09 PM)

Looking nice Bombur! I see you changed the production costs? I mean, 6000 for Art1?
Haven't installed your files yet. [:o]



Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (6/21/2008 3:40:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joshuatree

Looking nice Bombur! I see you changed the production costs? I mean, 6000 for Art1?
Haven't installed your files yet. [:o]



-Yes, I changed them. In or5der to simulate economic growth and industrial development, latter units will be cheaper than earlier ones. It will be hard to have massive tank formations and large strategic bomber fleets before you reach at least 1930īs technology. This effect will be sharper for planes and tanks, while costs for capital ships will be almost flat.



Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (6/25/2008 3:11:22 AM)

The task of balancing the units is a formidable one. Iīve also decided how cost of units will decrease.

Ships: 5% decrease each decade
Vehicles: 20% decrease each decade
Planes: 20% decrease each decade up to introduction of jet planes. The transition prop to jet will result in a 10% increase in cost and the cost remains unchanged
Ships: 5% decrease each decade
Infantry: 10% decrease each level

Still must add Battlecruisers, cavalry, coastal guns (conventional guns will have no antiship effect). Decided to add topedo boats to create a scissors/stone/paper flavor in early game. Torpedos boats will be vulnerable to destroyers but not to slow warships. On the other hand, they will be powerful against slow warships and almost useless against faster ones. This will force the player to build a balanced fleet in the early game. Ships will have movement cost allowance according to maximum speed.
Ships 1: 4 hexes (<20knots)
Ships 2: 6 hexes (20-24,9 knots)
Ships 3: 8 hexes (25-29,9 knots)
Ships 4: 10 hexes (>=30 knots)



Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (7/5/2008 12:00:30 AM)

Now I have a working version of my mod, able to cover from late 1800īs to WWI. Had some tests vs AI, and the game seems to work well, except by....
1-Artillery is cost ineffective, so neither the AI nor the human player is interested in building it. So I decreased artillery cost to 3000 (notice that artillery is less effective than in stock game)
2-The AI is building a fleet based only in Torpedo boats. They donīt understand that these ships will be decimated by destroyers. I fear the AI canīt understand the complexity layers added to naval warfare
On the other hand, infantry assaults are being decimated against well prepared defenses, just like in early 1900īs.
Next step will be to place a human vs AI playtest in the Forum. It will result in some suggestions to improve the mod, I hope.



Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (7/12/2008 3:03:06 AM)

Already adding naval patrol aircraft and cavalry.



Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (7/20/2008 12:35:05 AM)

Here is a screenshot of the partial tech tree. I already have almost 60 units defined and limited ability to simulate aeronaval warfare, a thing I want to test soon...here is CV Lexington. You will be able to convert your Battlecruisers to Carriers....

[image]local://upfiles/12603/7912BF688EFA4498AEFCEFE787847760.jpg[/image]



Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (7/28/2008 12:38:27 AM)

-The game is already playable, with about 70 SFīs, and you already can have fleet carriers and torpedo bombers. The AI, however, seems to be somewhat crazy. Since I introduced cavalry, the AI is buidling huge cavalry armies. The big trouble is that cavalry has a strong penalty when attacking cities and fortifications. This places the AI at disadvantage. Yesterday, for the first time, I saw the AI buidling a destroyer (it still prefers the Torpedo boats). I have the impression that the AI is running into logistic troubles too....



Grymme -> RE: Mod for random maps (7/28/2008 7:39:05 AM)

have you defined what roll the AI will use each SFT in?



Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (7/29/2008 12:22:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grymme

have you defined what roll the AI will use each SFT in?



Yes, but....cavalry canīt only be used as "infantry". I cannot define new roles....



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Mod for random maps (7/29/2008 2:49:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grymme

have you defined what roll the AI will use each SFT in?



Yes, but....cavalry canīt only be used as "infantry". I cannot define new roles....


Can't you just define Cavalry as fast infantry that can carry other things, with a low combat value ?





Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (7/29/2008 4:11:35 AM)

quote:



Can't you just define Cavalry as fast infantry that can carry other things, with a low combat value ?



-Thatīs more or less what I did (except that cavalry cannot carry other things, this was left to horses, which, in this mod, are cargo losses and slower than cavalry). Despite this the AI fell in love with horses...maybe because they are good in early game to grab territory, Iīm not sure...Iīve already increased cavalry cost, and it didnīt work. Maye if I decrease cavalry combat values (are equal to Rifle, but with penalties in offensive against urban hexes and fortifications)



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Mod for random maps (7/29/2008 7:40:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

quote:



Can't you just define Cavalry as fast infantry that can carry other things, with a low combat value ?



-Thatīs more or less what I did (except that cavalry cannot carry other things, this was left to horses, which, in this mod, are cargo losses and slower than cavalry). Despite this the AI fell in love with horses...maybe because they are good in early game to grab territory, Iīm not sure...Iīve already increased cavalry cost, and it didnīt work. Maye if I decrease cavalry combat values (are equal to Rifle, but with penalties in offensive against urban hexes and fortifications)



Yes, that might work, of course we are working to the assumption that the AI evalautes units based on these values. I think it does. It makes sense to me that cavalry should be weaker than rifles both in offensive and defensive capabilities and this weakness is partially offset by mobility. They should consume more supply as well IMHO.

In a WWI/II environment with mechanization a possibility, cavalry really should not be a "good" thing for the AI to invest in. It's a "dead end" technology.





Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (7/30/2008 12:10:30 AM)

-In my mod, the values for cavalry and infantry are the same. The terrain penalties are worse for infantry. Cavalry also spends more supply and is far more costly. Trouble is that the AI is insisting on building cavalry based armies. This strategy makes sense in the early turns but is disastrous when the border lines are consolidated and the AI goes to offensive. Itīs very easy to defend against a cavalry based army by placing infantry and nachineguns in the cities. Things are made even worse by the fact that the AI seems not to be interested in artillery, which, in my mod, is absolutely necessary for offensive actions in the early game...



Grymme -> RE: Mod for random maps (7/30/2008 10:04:46 AM)

I am talking about which role the AI use each unit. This you can modify in the AI role score in the SFT. Have you changed that?

Try to make the AI use it as infantry support instead of Infantry. You could redesign infantry and have it have the same role as scouts instead. High recon, can carry supply, high speed. But cavalry divisions as separate units pretty much went out of style after american civil war.

Or you could make an event that lets the ai initialy use it in the role of infantry and then switch to use it as infantry support after certain tecnology is researched.



Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (7/31/2008 12:24:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grymme

I am talking about which role the AI use each unit. This you can modify in the AI role score in the SFT. Have you changed that?


-Yes, I did. I use Cavalry as infantry (score=100)

quote:


Try to make the AI use it as infantry support instead of Infantry. You could redesign infantry and have it have the same role as scouts instead. High recon, can carry supply, high speed. But cavalry divisions as separate units pretty much went out of style after american civil war.


-Thatīs good idea, I will make cavalry=infantry support. But, while cavalry, in traditional sense, died after the Civil war, mounted rifle squads still were used up to WWII, and the Russio-Polish war saw some tradional cavalry battles.

quote:


Or you could make an event that lets the ai initialy use it in the role of infantry and then switch to use it as infantry support after certain tecnology is researched.


-Thatīs more complex. I will try your fist idea. Thank you.



Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (7/31/2008 2:49:48 AM)

-Thank you a lot, Grymme, changing cavalry to infantry support fixed the AI love with horses....



Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (8/3/2008 11:20:36 PM)

-Well, with the cavalry bug fixed, Iīm adding new units. I have almost 80 units. Iīm considering to release it as a beta version as soon I complete 100 units.



Bombur -> Beta version released (8/16/2008 9:22:42 PM)

Released beta version. It has about 90 units from 1900 to 1930. Feedback welcomed.



SSFSX17 -> RE: Beta version released (8/16/2008 11:35:18 PM)

Some of the production types don't seem to link to anything yet, e.g. the mortars. Also, there seem to be bugs with naval units and certain aircraft types - it is possible to research different eras of naval units at the same time, for example.

I must say, though, you represent the shift from WW1 to WW2 very well! At first, you have to build new units in the same hex as your HQs, then move them out in waves and hope for the best. Once you can build Medium Trucks and Tanks and have the Armored Warfare Doctrine, however, you can actually play the game like it was standard Advanced Tactics.

In the future, I believe you should make a guide about the radically different weights and carrying capacities. I needed some time in order to adjust to the new weights.



Bombur -> RE: Beta version released (8/16/2008 11:51:21 PM)

quote:


Some of the production types don't seem to link to anything yet, e.g. the mortars.


-Could you explain better so I can fix it?


quote:


Also, there seem to be bugs with naval units and certain aircraft types - it is possible to research different eras of naval units at the same time, for example.


-This is not a bug, only an unpleasant consequence of a trick I used to force you to follow a balanced research path. Iīve interconnected land/naval/air paths, so you must research air and land to get access to next decade naval units and so on. As a consequence, you can research 1910-1919 naval units before 1900-1909 ones. I tried to avoid strange results by linking some of these units to older ones, so, even if you research 1910-1919 naval units before the older ones, you must get back before these techs are really useful, because you need to build armored cruiser II before the dreadnought. But I will check again the paths to look for bugs. Tell me about specific troubles please, because the mod is too complex and I might have overlooked serious troubles.

quote:


I must say, though, you represent the shift from WW1 to WW2 very well! At first, you have to build new units in the same hex as your HQs, then move them out in waves and hope for the best. Once you can build Medium Trucks and Tanks and have the Armored Warfare Doctrine, however, you can actually play the game like it was standard Advanced Tactics.


-Thank you, did you reached the 30īs?


quote:


In the future, I believe you should make a guide about the radically different weights and carrying capacities. I needed some time in order to adjust to the new weights.


-The guide is beign written, I will update it with new weights.




Bombur -> RE: Beta version released (8/17/2008 12:08:20 AM)

Iīm making some changes to tech tree in order to avoid early production of critical SFīs, usually by giving them some pre requisites from the former decade. This bug seems to be more pronouced for aircraft. It will be fixed now.
Bugs:
1-Item Mortar II is pointing to Mortar III production-Fixed



Bombur -> RE: Beta version released (8/17/2008 2:16:53 AM)

More bugs:
-Fixed a few issues with ship speeds and range
-Naval fighter IV was appearing early in the game because I didnīt set pre requisites-Fixed



Bombur -> RE: Beta version released (8/17/2008 3:56:02 AM)

-Bomber II is being produced after research for Bomber I. Fixed. Now you have to research Bomber II.



rickier65 -> RE: Beta version released (8/17/2008 4:42:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

Released beta version. It has about 90 units from 1900 to 1930. Feedback welcomed.


Bombur -

Congratulations! You've been working on this project for quite some time! Glad to see you've persevered. I haven't checked it out yet, but I will.

Thanks.
Rick



srndac -> RE: Beta version released (8/17/2008 7:27:42 AM)

Hello folks!

I was just wondering why Horses have to have that 1 Stack/Power point on them ... they aren't going into combat themselves and (in this period of history) do more damage than good if they do go into the thick of it.
If you want to give them some penalties, raise their Supply requirement or Weight - but (IMHO) that 1 Stack/Power Point is totally unrealistic. [sm=00000023.gif]

Well ... that's my 2 cents anyway ...
Cheers!

P.S. keep up the good work Bombur!



Bombur -> RE: Beta version released (8/17/2008 1:34:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: srndac

Hello folks!

I was just wondering why Horses have to have that 1 Stack/Power point on them ... they aren't going into combat themselves and (in this period of history) do more damage than good if they do go into the thick of it.
If you want to give them some penalties, raise their Supply requirement or Weight - but (IMHO) that 1 Stack/Power Point is totally unrealistic. [sm=00000023.gif]

Well ... that's my 2 cents anyway ...
Cheers!

P.S. keep up the good work Bombur!



-But I didnīt change Horses stack value compared to the original masterfile. What would you suggest?



srndac -> RE: Beta version released (8/17/2008 5:05:47 PM)

Hi Bombur!

Yeah, I know you did ... it's there as well ... [sm=dizzy.gif]
As to a recommendation: simply remove that Stack Point - it's useless and gets in the way.
I mean, Horses (I really think they should be called Wagons instead) have the same function as Trucks - transporting things around the countryside. And have you seen Trucks with Stack Points? No you haven't.

Cheers!



Bombur -> RE: Beta version released (8/17/2008 10:29:45 PM)

-Hmmm...ok. I understand your point, but Horeses are also used as mobilizers. In that cases shouldnīt they have stack points?
-Any other opinions? All of you agree with removing stack points from horses?



Bombur -> RE: Beta version released (8/18/2008 12:31:01 AM)

Hmmm...the "decades" research system is creating a few troubles. It will be possible to get Battlecruisers III before the First Dreadnought....It will be easy to fix, however. I will add a few techs in the pre requisites corresponding to the critical items. Fixed the issue with the Battlecruiser III. You will need the Battlecruiser II. Did the same with Light Cruiser I (you will need armoured cruiser II) and with torpedo bomber I (you will need Bomber I). Notice that you still can research the Hood before the Dreadnought, but no item will appear to you until you get BC II. To avoid confusion, I will place a small text detailing the pre requisites in the cards.



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