RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (Full Version)

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ilovestrategy -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/20/2008 12:15:43 AM)

I played Ultima Online for 3 1/3 years, World of Warcraft for 2 but left because of the kiddies. Been playing Lord Of the Rings Online for over as year now and bought a lifetime membership for it. [:)]

War in the Pacific with its active forums though seems like an MMO to me [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]



madgamer2 -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/20/2008 1:22:25 AM)

don't fret it kid someday if you make it that far you to will be old. I would rather be opld now then whey you get old LOL. I find that MMO's are for people who don't or can't bscome socoal the old fastion way...face to face. In this wireless connected world of ours is for the young that way they don't have to learn such things as spelling, and the social graces, just how to text.
I find it disturbing that our society is becoming so non social but I am just a pessimistic person brought up in the more graceful and laid back 20th century

Madgamer



Veldor -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/20/2008 1:49:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: panzers
Seriously, having really only have played WOW, is there really anything better than that one, with the expansions they are coming out with now? That is a serious question


WOW and Guild Wars both are to MMO's what Axis & Allies is to Wargaming. Thats also why you see numbers like that. Its not because WOW or Axis and Allies is the best game in the genre, just that its the easiest to get into and holds the widest appeal.

In all seriousness many WOW players are looking to Warhammer. That is actually the title that they ripped off for much of the content. And not the other way around. Warhammer set that tone in the early 80s long before Warcraft was around. The game is built from those who did Dark Age of Camelot and, while not a ultra hardcore MMO, is at least moderately difficult. Warhammer is preserving its original look, made much more cartoony in WOW, but they are sticking away from photo-realistic and are landing somewhere in the high middle away from WOW graphics.

Its hard for me to say whats a hardcore MMO anymore. Perhaps EQ2 and Vanguard would be closest. Vanguard was suppose to be the ultimate hardcore MMO experience but due to ultra high performance requirements they had to simplify it some to try to retain enough player base. Vanguard really gets a worse rep mainly due to WOW players that just aren't ready for a game like that. Its really a stepping stone up from EQ2 which in turn is a step up from EQ1 which is a step up from WOW. The original EQ designer did Vanguard personally.

To put it into perspective. Imagine 10 million Axis and Allies players trying just about any Matrix Game. While plenty would do ok and love them, its just in the numbers that a large group just won't put the right effort into it and will go off slamming them as boring and over-complicated etc. etc. Same thing with non-WOW MMO Games in many cases.

But I must respect WOW. It made the MMO genre mainstream and a household acronym even MOMs know now...



Veldor -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/20/2008 1:54:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer

don't fret it kid someday if you make it that far you to will be old. I would rather be opld now then whey you get old LOL. I find that MMO's are for people who don't or can't bscome socoal the old fastion way...face to face. In this wireless connected world of ours is for the young that way they don't have to learn such things as spelling, and the social graces, just how to text.
I find it disturbing that our society is becoming so non social but I am just a pessimistic person brought up in the more graceful and laid back 20th century

Madgamer


Its far more anti-social to sit at the computer playing a game of WiTP or virtually any other wargame by yourself or even against 1 other person. There are thousands in an MMO game. So I'd say the average wargamer is far more socially reclusive than than the average MMO player. While some of the eldest here shake in their boots at the thought of playing even 1 person (and thus stick with an AI).. the rest of us meet hundreds in a single hour of play.

And don't bother talking about how much time MMO players might play when a WiTP game can take hours per evening and over a year to finish.

No need to try to make yourself better than someone else. Gamers are gamers and whatever comments apply apply to the lot of us.



Khornish -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/20/2008 7:53:50 AM)

I've played Planetside, EQ2, DDO, EvE, WoW, DAoC, Anarchy Online, Age of Conan, City of Heroes/Villains, WWII Online, and LOTRO, honestly, I found most of them to be boring or a major let down.

City of Heroes grabbed my attention the most, and I'm not a real superhero genre fan. I am going to play Warhammer: Age of Reckoning because I like the IP and I worked for Games Workshop for almost 5 years...wished I'd not quit, but that's life.

I prefer PVP type games, but only when it is properly structured. I am not a fan of games that benefit the long term player at the expense of the new player. Meaning, the veteran pretty much can ruin the game experience for all new players with practically no penalty involved.

The game I am REALLY looking forward to is Warhammer 40,000 Online. If that stays a first person shooter, I will be all over that game, but it has to be done right and done well. I hate fragfest games where players are jumping everywhere and spamming grenades (Call of Duty). I feel the Battlefield series was good, aside from BF2142...and parts of BF Vietnam.

I'd love to see an MMO with a strategic level planning stage and a tactical combat stage.



Reiryc -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/20/2008 3:19:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

In one game MMP there was a case where one clan was battling another clan.

Over some time some of the members of one clan became real life friends.

Then one of them died.

The friend decided to hold an on-line service.

The clan got together on-line and held a service within in the game!

The other clan came along, ambushed them and wiped them out. [X(]

It was posted as a video somewhere.




I think this was in dark age of camelot...

I used to play that game and enjoyed it quite a bit. I played that one for about 2 years and threw in the towel in 2003. I played everquest 2 for a short time, about 1.5 months but it just didn't grab me and I haven't played an MMO since.




panzers -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/20/2008 6:25:13 PM)

As I was saying earlier in this thread, I don't want to be putting all my hard earned dollars in a bunch of onlime subscriptions to MMORPG that I may never play, but the feedback from warhammer does sound very intriguing. Never actually played the cardboard game, but is it anything at all like battletech?



Khornish -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/20/2008 6:49:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: panzers

As I was saying earlier in this thread, I don't want to be putting all my hard earned dollars in a bunch of onlime subscriptions to MMORPG that I may never play, but the feedback from warhammer does sound very intriguing. Never actually played the cardboard game, but is it anything at all like battletech?


Warhammer is a miniatures game. The figures are made of plastic or a pewter allow. Originally, there was a boxed set with counters, which was before their miniatures lines started to take off. I have that set, but they wanted people to buy the minis and then use the counters for bases.

It is not like battletech other than they are both games and have some customization to the units involved, based upon player choices.

I'd really recommend you check out the Warhammer: Age of Reckoning website.



V22 Osprey -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/20/2008 6:58:11 PM)

I play a game called Combat Arms.It's free,lots of customization(like buying an M4 and putting different scopes,silencers,and extend magazines.)

Fun  game,it's only v1.0 so I assume in the future they will add more maps than the 6 there are.Low system specs,Good Graphics,I get a perfect framerate with everything on high and it's Free!


http://combatarms.nexon.net/

I think you download the setup file(440 megs),and overall it takes up 2.0 Gigs.And you have to make a profile with Nexon.

Wouldn't call it a MMO,but it has lots of servers and I've seen 2-4 at a time full of players.



Veldor -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/20/2008 7:42:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: panzers

As I was saying earlier in this thread, I don't want to be putting all my hard earned dollars in a bunch of onlime subscriptions to MMORPG that I may never play, but the feedback from warhammer does sound very intriguing. Never actually played the cardboard game, but is it anything at all like battletech?


Warhammer Online doesn't play anything like the miniature game anymore than Warcraft Online plays like Warcraft. They are simply set in the same universe as their respective IPs. Which means it will have the look/feel of Warhammer and all the various badies and locations, weapons/spells etc. but rules wize it'll play like an MMO with integrated combat, economic, and crafting systems just for starters. They also have built upon DaOC for large scale Realm vs Realm battles whereby your side basically takes over territory and such should you wish to participate in that aspect. Or simply play at the regular RAID levels, party levels, or even solo.



Zakhal -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/20/2008 11:15:34 PM)

quote:

Sorry Zarhal, must be in total disagreement. AS a MMO who tried both GW and WOW, I gotta say WOW takes GW out to left field.


Its okay to disagree. 10 million people seems to disagree with me. [:D]

Wow and GW and both great successes allthough they are different games. GW sold over 5 million but its more like mmo-lite. The best thing about GW is that at best (nightfall) its story equals single player rpgs. Usually mmos have almost no story at all.

In rpg the story is most important thing to me unless the game is an action-rpg. For me the "social multiplayer aspect" is secondary even in a mmo.



Zakhal -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/20/2008 11:24:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: panzers
As I was saying earlier in this thread, I don't want to be putting all my hard earned dollars in a bunch of onlime subscriptions to MMORPG that I may never play, but the feedback from warhammer does sound very intriguing. Never actually played the cardboard game, but is it anything at all like battletech?


If you are afraid of wasting your money on yet another mmo you can check the status of the game on beta leaks. Once you register to the forums you can see everything from latest patch notes, test results to betatester comments, pictures and video.



Veldor -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/21/2008 5:28:25 AM)

Is Age of Conan worth buying and playing now?

I had been completely ignoring it since I'd heard a lot about it having lots of missing content and other issues... But realize that might not be entirely fair since people are still ignoring Vanguard for those same type of rumors... And assuming you have the necessary hardware its actually not a bad game.

Still though... MMO's really should all have free trials.... EQ2 does, WOW does, Vanguard soon will. Those kind of titles really have no excuse.

I buy lots of games but no one likes that feeling of buying a $60.00 title only to realize literally minutes into the game that its just not for you. Reading only does so much and can be a real time sink. I'd much rather spend my time playing a demo than reading around on forums or elsewhere what "other people" do or don't like about a game. But I don't always have that choice.

As anyone can see from this and other treads here, we all have different likes and dislikes. The only real way to know if a game is for you or not is to PLAY IT! [:D]




Veldor -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/22/2008 12:11:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor

Is Age of Conan worth buying and playing now?


I think it is. Its actually on a 48hr Madness Sale over at gogamer.com so I picked it up!

http://www.gogamer.com/viewproduct.htm?productId=21524443

First MMO with a Mature Rating and made specifically with Adults in Mind.. Great Graphics.. Massive all player battles with Seige Engines to capture enemy fortresses manned by other player armies...full single-player mode in which to learn the game. Decapitations and other gore. 10x More interactive combat system than any other MMO to date. Less fantasy oriented unique setting.. Massive World.. etc. Made by veteran MMO developers...

Only real negatives for me... Not a huge Conan fan and uncertain what I will do once Warhammer comes out..

1 person signed up for the AOC Wargaming Guild so far!




panzers -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/22/2008 4:38:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor

Is Age of Conan worth buying and playing now?

I had been completely ignoring it since I'd heard a lot about it having lots of missing content and other issues... But realize that might not be entirely fair since people are still ignoring Vanguard for those same type of rumors... And assuming you have the necessary hardware its actually not a bad game.

Still though... MMO's really should all have free trials.... EQ2 does, WOW does, Vanguard soon will. Those kind of titles really have no excuse.

I buy lots of games but no one likes that feeling of buying a $60.00 title only to realize literally minutes into the game that its just not for you. Reading only does so much and can be a real time sink. I'd much rather spend my time playing a demo than reading around on forums or elsewhere what "other people" do or don't like about a game. But I don't always have that choice.

As anyone can see from this and other treads here, we all have different likes and dislikes. The only real way to know if a game is for you or not is to PLAY IT! [:D]



Is there one for warhammer online?



Veldor -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/22/2008 4:55:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: panzers
Is there one for warhammer online?


Given that the game isn't even release yet, or in open beta for that matter, it remains to be seen whether or not they will have a free trial. Based on the games this one is going up against though it would make sense that they would have a free trial since all the competition does.

But worse case they will only allow "buddy codes" like Age of Conan so you will have to know someone that bought the game and hasn't already given away their buddy code or codes.

Some MMO companies choose to do this at launch because the servers are already bogged down without having all the freeloaders to add to it.. After the first month things usually taper off a bit even for good MMOs (Like when first time MMO parents are asked by their kid for that 14.99 renewal fee :)) and then they may do a free trial.

If your really interested I'd just apply for open beta or pre open beta. That can be at least a month free pre-launch. I hope I am selected for the pre-open-beta phase but no word back yet. <crossing fingers>



Krasny -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/22/2008 11:00:05 AM)

My main gripe with MMOs is that I always end up playing solo.

And everyone else seems intent on playing solo as well, since it is a far more effective means of leveling that spending hours trying to get a group togther.

So massive multiplayer games, invariably turn into massive singleplayer games, with the odd PUG for an instance.

Which isn't why I'm paying my £10 a month for.

So I quit. I'm not a bloody rat in a cage, performing repetative tasks so an occasional treat rolls into my cage when I press the right buttons.

Why are MMOs (sic) designed to be playable solo?

Asheron's Call (3 Years)
Asheron's Call 2 (3 Months)
SWG (3 Months)
FFXI (1 Day)
WoW (6 Months)
DDO (1 Month)
LotRO (3 months)



Ketza -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/22/2008 4:32:06 PM)

I run a MMO guild called Harm. We are currently playing Age of Conan and Requiem Bloodymare. AOC has major issues and if Funcom doesnt resolve them by the time Warhammer launches AOC will become another dead title.

www.harmguild.com

Aztek



donkuchi19 -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/22/2008 9:10:05 PM)

I have been looking into EVE online. It looks interesting. I did play SWG for a couple of months, but it was hard to hook up with other people and just became a single player game (as someone mentioned earlier).

I did play what I consider the grandfather of all of these games on AOL with Neverwinter Nights. Limited Maps, Limited Quests, Poor graphics, Repetitive tasks to build up experience, but Great Fun when you hooked up with a good group. All sorts of Clans formed and it was easy to find others and do things together. I actually joined one clan and then formed another one with a friend. Nothing like getting 4 people to a side who were maxed out CLAM's (Cleric Magic Users) with reinforcements in the next section and fighting it out in PVP or just going to the tavern and BSing all night.



Veldor -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/23/2008 12:01:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Krasny

My main gripe with MMOs is that I always end up playing solo.

And everyone else seems intent on playing solo as well, since it is a far more effective means of leveling that spending hours trying to get a group togther.

So massive multiplayer games, invariably turn into massive singleplayer games, with the odd PUG for an instance.

Which isn't why I'm paying my £10 a month for.

So I quit. I'm not a bloody rat in a cage, performing repetative tasks so an occasional treat rolls into my cage when I press the right buttons.

Why are MMOs (sic) designed to be playable solo?

Asheron's Call (3 Years)
Asheron's Call 2 (3 Months)
SWG (3 Months)
FFXI (1 Day)
WoW (6 Months)
DDO (1 Month)
LotRO (3 months)



You've mostly been playing the wrong MMO's it would seem. The key to a non-solo experience is to join the right guild, or any guild at all for starters. I'd personally recommend:

A Medium-Sized, Family-Oriented, Mostly-Non-RAIDing, Casual Guild comprised of at least 33% altoholics. That last part is key if you dont play as much or else anyone who does will quickly level past you. I've had absolutely wonderful experiences with guilds in Ultima Online, Everquest 2, and Vanguard. Okay experiences in the very early days of SWG.

When I say wonderful experiences I mean nearly never having to play solo if I didn't otherwise want to.

That's not to say I don't understand where your coming from. Especially depending upon your playing style.



Veldor -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/23/2008 12:09:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

I run a MMO guild called Harm. We are currently playing Age of Conan and Requiem Bloodymare. AOC has major issues and if Funcom doesnt resolve them by the time Warhammer launches AOC will become another dead title.

www.harmguild.com

Aztek


Can you elaborate on the "major issues with AOC"? I spent what feels like 80 hrs researching the current status and it pretty much seemed as if they've done an awesome job of addressesing any initial release concerns. Really didn't see much negativity but instead a lot of really positive comments on its unique aspects as an MMO.

The only real applicable negative I've heard was that certain portions of content later in the game are light. Its also typical to see the diehard race-to-the-endgame type addicts gripe of boredom since they sailed past everything that is in the earlier game. Nothing wrong with having to initially experience more of a game through an alternate character class. Besides with the PVP and RVR style content you further can't complain unless your 100% strickly PVE and then your really playing the wrong game anyway.

Is the issue ganking, farming, even zerging or is it something far more sinister like actual game crashes etc?






Hertston -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/23/2008 1:15:55 AM)

I'm not aware of any MMORPG that didn't have 'major issues' on release, and 'issues' for some months afterwards - certainly none that I've played. Regardless, having sold a million copies in the first three weeks AoC isn't going to be a 'dead game' anytime soon.

I'd rate it OK, not much more than that. The graphics are average at best (LotRO looks better with everything maxed out IMHO) considered the PC you need to even run it, but maybe the DX10 release will fix that. I was very disappointed with the combat after the hype - when will somebody finally have the balls to swap the 'classic' button clicking style (albeit it with the odd tweak in this case) for Mount & Blade or Dark Messiah style combat?



Krasny -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/23/2008 11:27:19 AM)

Veldore

I am aware that finding the right guild is essential. Indeed I spend far longer selecting a guild that choosing a game. However it always seems guildmates rarely wish to play together, just participate in asinine chat.

The main reason for this I suspect are the games themselves, which seem to be structured primarily for solo play, thus making it easier to level solo, than it is in a group.

The one game where this is not the case is (or was) DDO. DDO is (was) a group game, which I regard as an admirable trait, which is spoiled by the fact that DDO is not that much better than NWN, and idiots that insist on rushing quests.

I read that AOC is another WoW clone (like LotRO), until you get to the end game.



Twotribes -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/23/2008 1:47:22 PM)

I Play DDO, Used to play EverQuest, for 7 years. Tried Anarchy Online, Camelot and VanGuard , did not like any of them for long.



String -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/23/2008 2:07:00 PM)

I've been playing Eve Online for about two years now and I recommend it if you are into sandbox type gaming. You really have to set your own goals there as noone else will do it for you. You also have to look after yourself for the same reason. Anything goes if it is done by ingame means and is not exploiting/hacking. Meaning that if you get scammed by someone or killed then noone, aside from your ingame friends, is going to help you. A game for an enterprising individual who knows what he wants and has a plan.

As a bonus the subscription numbers rise slowly but steadily, the game takes place in a single game world, no separate servers, and all the expansions are free of charge.

On the negative side, the learning curve is best illustrated by this picture . Also when 2-300 players (per side!!) face off eachother in large scale fleet combat in 0.0 space the local starsystems can get rather laggy.


I've also been playing WW2OL for the past few months and it's excellent as well. As realistic as it can be without scaring off 99% of even the most hardcore fps/ww2 enthusiasts and fun as well. Learning curve is steep though and it can be really frustrating as often you die without even knowing what killed you.

Both games are team oriented, both games are best when you end up in a good group, both games have trial periods.

edit: Oh and both games have an above the average average player age, which doesn't mean that there aren't any smacktards and 13 year old idiots, but there are a lot less of them than in wow.



panzers -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/23/2008 5:11:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: String

I've been playing Eve Online for about two years now and I recommend it if you are into sandbox type gaming. You really have to set your own goals there as noone else will do it for you. You also have to look after yourself for the same reason. Anything goes if it is done by ingame means and is not exploiting/hacking. Meaning that if you get scammed by someone or killed then noone, aside from your ingame friends, is going to help you. A game for an enterprising individual who knows what he wants and has a plan.

As a bonus the subscription numbers rise slowly but steadily, the game takes place in a single game world, no separate servers, and all the expansions are free of charge.

On the negative side, the learning curve is best illustrated by this picture . Also when 2-300 players (per side!!) face off eachother in large scale fleet combat in 0.0 space the local starsystems can get rather laggy.


I've also been playing WW2OL for the past few months and it's excellent as well. As realistic as it can be without scaring off 99% of even the most hardcore fps/ww2 enthusiasts and fun as well. Learning curve is steep though and it can be really frustrating as often you die without even knowing what killed you.

Both games are team oriented, both games are best when you end up in a good group, both games have trial periods.

edit: Oh and both games have an above the average average player age, which doesn't mean that there aren't any smacktards and 13 year old idiots, but there are a lot less of them than in wow.

Good one, String. Kind of explains why I'm a 66 mage with no guild!



Ketza -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/23/2008 5:11:59 PM)

The main problem with AOC is it was released far too early. The game in its current form is very unfinished. We were one of the first guilds on Deathwhisper to get a Battlekeep and the second guild on the server to be "sieged". Nothing concerning sieges even remotely worked. Our walls had huge holes in them. Siege equipment was not working. It seemed like a crude version of a beta test. As a temporary fix they made it so you could not lose a siege as the defender.

The crafting system has been broken and inconsistent since launch.

The pvp system is not in place and the one they are about to introduce is not the one they promised when the game was released. Even on a pvp server in the next patch any type of pvp will result in a murder count (even 80 vrs 80) which if it gets high enough will make it impossible to talk with vendors and NPCS. Also if you are a murdered you can drop items and money on death but of you are not you do not drop anything. Very confusing and borked system. It will kill guiuld vrs guild and world pvp.

The game stability is plagued by memory leaks. In large battles you have to tone down your graphics and turn off the sound or your framrate dips to below 10 fps or you crash.

They had an issue where female characters did not swing as fast as male characters. Rather then speed females up they slowed males down.

The endgame raids are plagued with bugs and zone in issues. it may take your 4 or 5 tries zoning into a dungeon just to get your whole party into the same place.

All of these issues has led to a mass exodus from the game. We are all used to MMOs getting off to a rocky start but this one is a total disaster. Of the 30 members and 40 recruits we came to the game with 2 months ago less then 20% are still playing. Most of the early guilds have left or disbanded. Of the original 8 Battlekeep guilds (you can only have 8 keeps per server) only 3 are still playing with any sort of consistency.

Maybe in 6 months the game will be worth a shot but for now I could not look anyone in the eye and honestly tell them to pick the game up and try it.



NefariousKoel -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/23/2008 7:52:27 PM)

I'll definitely give Warhammer Online a go when it comes out.

I've been at these things since UO in 98 and played almost every one since.  After leaving Conan due to bugs & unfinished content, I've gone back to WoW as a time-waster since an old MMO guildie or two are still there.  But I'm so sick of WoW.

From my experiences, Eve and Pirates of the Burning Sea are probably a couple of the more popular wargamer-loved MMOs since they have a slightly slower pace to combat.  However they both get very repetitive, very quick... especially Eve.

Anyway, if those of you who are gonna be doing some Warhammer, let us know what server you get into.



String -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/23/2008 8:09:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

From my experiences, Eve and Pirates of the Burning Sea are probably a couple of the more popular wargamer-loved MMOs since they have a slightly slower pace to combat. However they both get very repetitive, very quick... especially Eve.




I've found running missions and shooting npc's repetitive as well, but pvp never gets repetitive in Eve. Ever. Also there is so much to do, so much to explore, literally tens of professions to try out. Mission running, mining, T1 industry, T2 industry, science, Capital ship building, drug/booster production, large scale corporation or even alliance management, exploration, pirating, just your standard pvp, alliance warfare, factional warfare and market manipulation/games. I'm sure if i spent some time i could add some more to this list.

By the way, playing and predicting eve market is probably the closest thing to the real stuff. It really is a fully functioning economy.



Veldor -> RE: MMO Group of Wargamers who also play MMOs? (7/24/2008 1:19:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Krasny

Veldore

I am aware that finding the right guild is essential. Indeed I spend far longer selecting a guild that choosing a game. However it always seems guildmates rarely wish to play together, just participate in asinine chat.

The main reason for this I suspect are the games themselves, which seem to be structured primarily for solo play, thus making it easier to level solo, than it is in a group.

The one game where this is not the case is (or was) DDO. DDO is (was) a group game, which I regard as an admirable trait, which is spoiled by the fact that DDO is not that much better than NWN, and idiots that insist on rushing quests.

I read that AOC is another WoW clone (like LotRO), until you get to the end game.

Well the only thing I can say is you've at least missed two of the most group oriented MMO games out there entirely. Id say the most recent success there was EQ2. It was SO group oriented at first that they lost the solo crowd altogether and had to do a rapid patch to litter the landscape with solo mobs just to quick-fix it. You see you can't really make a fully successful MMO targeting only groups because the average player is not actually that hardcore raiding might-not-have-a-real-life player that so often everyone thinks every MMO player is. They are casual players. And casual players, even if they often play for long periods, still need just as many times where they get in and get out.. So you have to solo for those times.

But why EQ2 is such a great group game goes to its design. You have to have a reason to group and there are tons. Not just the RAIDing content (which covers all levels) but even Guilds have levels (Just like players). Even in our non-RAIDING guild we grouped in order to level up the guild... to which we all get various benefits. By grouping for that purpose you make acquantances and friends to make it more natural to group later for other purposes. The whole thing really worked well and, at least in that game, there would be zero excuse for anyone to make any complaints about it. Obviously it also helps if the game is very popular and populated, which EQ2 also was/is.

Remember too that DDO and Guild Wars are not MMO's but Hybrid Games. Really to be a real MMO you have to have more than just a persistant game world. You need things like at least one large walkable/flyable main landscape, a guilding system, and most importantly a player driven economy WITH a crafting system. There are a few others but many fail on one of the previous things.... So they are just really hybrids between an MMO and any other online game.




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