RE: 17-18 Dec (Full Version)

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pad152 -> RE: 17-18 Dec (2/12/2009 9:56:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrcar

You need airsupport to fly. There are company size units for small bases, or you use an AV etc.

I don't think AV etc supply torps to torpedo aircraft, Don will have to confirm.

Cheers
Rob

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

So do you need an AF Bn to fly a torpedo float plane w/torp out of some back water Atol?

Do (AV, AVD, CS, etc.) still supply Torpedoes to float planes?





This also raises the issue of torpedo resupply for Japanese CS (float plane carriers and the I-400 class subs) for torpedo float planes.

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor again in late January of 1942 using float planes resupplied by subs flying for the French Frigate shoal.

Can Sub tenders resupply torpedoes for subs?



jrcar -> RE: 17-18 Dec (2/13/2009 1:13:57 AM)

Someone has to drive the staff officers around!

Actually I think it is to increase the "cost" of loosing one of these units, so that people don't throw them around, and if they do they suffer consequences.

Cheers

Rob

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

Why do Air HQ's have motorized support?




jrcar -> RE: 17-18 Dec (2/13/2009 1:14:27 AM)

I will let someone else from the team answer this.

Cheers

Rob

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrcar

You need airsupport to fly. There are company size units for small bases, or you use an AV etc.

I don't think AV etc supply torps to torpedo aircraft, Don will have to confirm.

Cheers
Rob

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

So do you need an AF Bn to fly a torpedo float plane w/torp out of some back water Atol?

Do (AV, AVD, CS, etc.) still supply Torpedoes to float planes?





This also raises the issue of torpedo resupply for Japanese CS (float plane carriers and the I-400 class subs) for torpedo float planes.

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor again in late January of 1942 using float planes resupplied by subs flying for the French Frigate shoal.

Can Sub tenders resupply torpedoes for subs?





jrcar -> RE: 17-18 Dec (2/13/2009 2:10:08 AM)

19-20 Dec 1941

Another interception mid turn:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Legaspi at 93,82, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Natori
DD Satsuki
DD Minazuki
DD Fumizuki
DD Nagatsuki
DD Harukaze
DD Hatakaze

Allied Ships
xAP Neptuna, Shell hits 21, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk


The hunted becomes the hunter...
Sub attack near Victoria at 207,52

Japanese Ships
SS I-23

Allied Ships
PG Charleston, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kane
PC Crawford



SS I-23 launches 6 torpedoes at PG Charleston
I-23 diving deep ....
DD Kane fails to find sub, continues to search...
PC Crawford fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Kane fails to find sub, continues to search...
PC Crawford fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Kane fails to find sub, continues to search...
PC Crawford fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Kane fails to find sub, continues to search...
PC Crawford fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

Kuching and Singkawang are invaded, no response from the Allies.... yet!

the advance continues in the Pilipines and Malay, but no real action yet.

The Hunters find the hunted...

ASW attack near Coal Harbour at 199,57

Japanese Ships
SS I-6, hits 3

Allied Ships
DD Kane
PC Crawford

ASW attack near Victoria at 207,51

Japanese Ships
SS I-171, hits 2

Allied Ships
DD Hatfield
DD Gilmer
DD Fox



The brand new Oscar 1C are blooded over Rangoon, results are lopsided (I like it that way!) I have better pilots, altitude, and numbers)

Morning Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 10


Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 10


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 6 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 25000 feet

CAP engaged:
No.67 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 1 minutes

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

The storm is gathering in a number of locations.

Cheers

Rob



bradfordkay -> RE: 17-18 Dec (2/13/2009 7:44:56 AM)

So they can skedaddle quickly? 



snuffl -> RE: 17-18 Dec (2/13/2009 8:15:29 AM)

One question to raid detection:
Don't know if it was mentioned before but what about an allied raid flying from Lunga to Rabaul. It has to cross hexes and bases which are japanese controlled. Does this give a bonus to Raid detection? I remember this from a former game called burning steel 2 i think when your raids were being tracked by coastwatchers which helped you a lot preparing your CAP.
Sorry for my broken english ...



traskott -> RE: 17-18 Dec (2/13/2009 9:39:52 AM)

How does naval support affect ships in the port ? ie: How much "naval support" takes every type of ship ?. 



cantona2 -> RE: 17-18 Dec (2/13/2009 9:55:00 AM)

Rob

Could it be possible to show some screenies of early war Jap planes that were not in WitP please?

Cheers



Blackhorse -> RE: 17-18 Dec (2/13/2009 10:51:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jrcar

Someone has to drive the staff officers around!

Actually I think it is to increase the "cost" of loosing one of these units, so that people don't throw them around, and if they do they suffer consequences.

Cheers

Rob

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

Why do Air HQ's have motorized support?




Some HQs have motorized support to increase the *load* cost of the unit. Motorized support represents all of the equipment and vehicles in a HQ that can best be carried on a AK transport (as opposed to personnel on a AP).

US Army Headquarters, for example, had hundreds of trucks in motor pool battalions that were 'lent' to lower-echelon units for troop movements and supplies.

Man-for-man aviation and related support units tended to have significantly more vehicles than traditional army units. For example, a typical Aviation Engineer Battalion had about 600 men -- and 100 vehicles!



m10bob -> RE: 17-18 Dec (2/13/2009 12:39:19 PM)

jrcar sez : "The brand new Oscar 1C are blooded over Rangoon, results are lopsided (I like it that way!) I have better pilots, altitude, and numbers)

Morning Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 10


Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 10


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 6 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 25000 feet

CAP engaged:
No.67 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 1 minutes

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes"



FINALLY!...The Oscar is worthy of its' historical counterpart in the early days...............

BTW...Love the AAR's..




Cathartes -> 21-22 Dec (2/14/2009 4:09:51 AM)

Dec. 21-22, 1941
A few punches back and forth all over the Pacific. More Oscars show up over Rangoon, but this time the AVG is waiting:

Afternoon Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Japanese aircraft
     Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 18

Allied aircraft
     H81-A3 x 38

Japanese aircraft losses
     Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 4 destroyed, 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
     H81-A3: 1 destroyed, 37 damaged

CAP engaged:
AVG/1st Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
     12 plane(s) intercepting now.
     6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
     Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 17000 and 28000.
     Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
AVG/2nd Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
     14 plane(s) intercepting now.
     6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
     Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 31000.
     Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes

Raid detected at 14 NM, estimated altitude 29,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

A raid the next day catches the AVG outnumbered and the Oscars fly away unscathed:

Afternoon Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Japanese aircraft
     Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 17

Allied aircraft
     H81-A3 x 7


Japanese aircraft losses
     Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
     H81-A3: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
     16 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 25000 feet

CAP engaged:
AVG/1st Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
     2 plane(s) intercepting now.
     1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
     Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters to 25000.
     Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes
AVG/2nd Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
     3 plane(s) intercepting now.
     1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
     Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters to 25000.
     Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes

Raid spotted at 24 NM, estimated altitude 31,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes


I sneak in a dozen, well-rested Vildebeests from Singapore over to Kuching/Singkawang area as an invasion is in progress at both bases. Because they left Singapore they could not use torpedoes. Nonetheless, bombs cause damage too, and they manage a few hits on transports, one hit on the DD Hatsuyuki, and two 500lb bombs score on the CA Kumano. I don't think jrcar was expecting these crates, and I reckoned he didn't have air cover in the area. Well-rested Allied air in the DEI can score if you manage to catch the Japanese parked off an invasion hex.  Always helps A LOT if Oscar and Zero are absent from school that day.

I lose a couple more transports trying to flee the PI. 

I get trounced by Zeros on sweep over Clark Field (Rob can say more). 

ASW lights up all over the map, with a Dutch sub getting beat up badly, but I find a number of Japanese subs off the US/Canada west coast sneaking around. I don't sink any, but I manage to hurl depth charges at about 5 different subs from San Clemente Island to Victoria Island, damaging a few of them.  Of course, there is considerable FOW.  Maybe I got lucky with one?



witpqs -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/14/2009 4:32:23 AM)

Pardon my ignorance - what the heck is an H81-A3? [&:]



Alikchi2 -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/14/2009 4:43:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Pardon my ignorance - what the heck is an H81-A3? [&:]


Hawk 81 =) pre-production P-40 I think



treespider -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/14/2009 4:47:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Pardon my ignorance - what the heck is an H81-A3? [&:]



A Hawk 81-A-3

[image]local://upfiles/15342/09F9BF17E8344A7CAEF398A85BF22494.jpg[/image]



kfmiller41 -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/14/2009 5:05:48 AM)

Now that's service[X(]



Klahn -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/14/2009 7:37:50 AM)

H81 was the Curtis model number. The H81-A3 designation is probably used because the AVG wasn't officially an Army Air Corp outfit so their aircraft didn't carry the P-40 designator. The H81-A3 was a cross between the P-40B and the P-40C. It carried the armament and armor of the C, but the engine of the B. It was delivered without military hardware due to US neutrality.



aciddrinker -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/14/2009 11:04:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cathartes

Dec. 21-22, 1941
A few punches back and forth all over the Pacific. More Oscars show up over Rangoon, but this time the AVG is waiting:

Afternoon Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Japanese aircraft
     Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 18

Allied aircraft
     H81-A3 x 38
...

Allied aircraft losses
     H81-A3: 1 destroyed, 37 damaged


...

how long it take to repair this 37 damaged?



Erik Rutins -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/14/2009 1:48:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aciddrinker
how long it take to repair this 37 damaged?


That totally depends - first off, you have fog of war involved in the report. Second, assuming that 37 damaged was actually accurate, it could have been 5 planes each damaged ~7 times or something like that as well. Heavily damaged planes, assuming they survive landing, take more time to repair than just a few bullet holes. WITP AE now tracks damage properly by plane and keeps track of it across turns, so damage is meaningful (assuming the FOW-based report is accurate).

Regards,

- Erik



Chad Harrison -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/14/2009 1:58:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: aciddrinker
how long it take to repair this 37 damaged?


That totally depends - first off, you have fog of war involved in the report. Second, assuming that 37 damaged was actually accurate, it could have been 5 planes each damaged ~7 times or something like that as well. Heavily damaged planes, assuming they survive landing, take more time to repair than just a few bullet holes. WITP AE now tracks damage properly by plane and keeps track of it across turns, so damage is meaningful (assuming the FOW-based report is accurate).

Regards,

- Erik



Wait, its no longer only two states: damaged or un-damaged? There are now degree's of damage? [X(]

You guys need to tone down the 'awesome' and 'mindblowing' levels of this game, its getting out of hand. [:D]



witpqs -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/14/2009 2:22:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

You guys need to tone down the 'awesome' and 'mindblowing' levels of this game, its getting out of hand. [:D]


Ixnay on the tone-downnay.



Grotius -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/14/2009 2:49:26 PM)

quote:

AVG/1st Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
12 plane(s) intercepting now.
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 17000 and 28000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes

OK, I love this. I take it the 12 aircraft on standby were the aircraft on CAP? Do aircraft not assigned to CAP sometimes scramble? Just curious how this works.



Dili -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/14/2009 5:48:49 PM)

I would say that 12 planes were in standby and are intercepting now while 6 of them are already engaged, but then the 26min seems out of order since 12 planes seems to be the total number.



Monter_Trismegistos -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/14/2009 8:50:53 PM)

Hi. If you are really bored, could you search in database for some things for me?

What names AE devs assigned to minisubs type D - from memory out of more than 100 - only one name is known: Ha-74.
Second thing. With a lot of conversions added - has old small destroyers and torpedoboats have EARLY conversions to escort ships? Adding DCs. In WitP they had, but you had to wait long for such possibility.



Cathartes -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/15/2009 8:03:16 AM)

quote:

OK, I love this. I take it the 12 aircraft on standby were the aircraft on CAP? Do aircraft not assigned to CAP sometimes scramble? Just curious how this works.


Generally, if you set your aircraft to a % CAP some are airborne and immediately available to intercept while others will rise to the occasion and try to join the fight, while others may not be immediately in the vicinity, so if you're watching the combat animations, you will see perhaps 4 fighters begin to fight, but more get added to the number display as the fight evolves. Radar will help you be more prepared.

quote:

What names AE devs assigned to minisubs type D - from memory out of more than 100 - only one name is known: Ha-74.
Second thing. With a lot of conversions added - has old small destroyers and torpedoboats have EARLY conversions to escort ships? Adding DCs. In WitP they had, but you had to wait long for such possibility.


Gonna let a Japanese player/naval design crew comment on this one, have my Allied hands full at the moment. [8D]



Cathartes -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/15/2009 8:14:00 AM)

A new dimension to AE is that it's no longer possible to play a full-on Brave Sir Robin as the Allies. A lot of units can't be pulled back to fight another day, even if you wanted to pay political points. There are restricted commands and then there are restricted commands-- ones in white text that you can't change, and can't buy at any political price. Some Dutch units and PI units are among them. Also, if you want to save your P-40Es from Clark and Manila and have them fight another day somewhere else, forget it. Their fate is sealed. Conserve them, squander them, do what you will, but they ain't leaving the PI!

[image]local://upfiles/2187/B2C3D59B43C64E5DA44BEB2102BD44E2.jpg[/image]



Sardaukar -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/15/2009 4:41:29 PM)

You have nothing to fear, they are commanded by LTC Hammer.... Is that Sledge Hammer or MC Hammer? [:D]



Nomad -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/15/2009 6:05:54 PM)

Can you at least move your Dutch units to other Dutch bases?



Blackhorse -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/15/2009 6:09:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Can you at least move your Dutch units to other Dutch bases?


Overland and by air transfer, yes.

The team has had many discussions about how to make it possible to move restricted units by ship to other bases of the restricted command . . . coding and other practical concerns got in the way. An issue for a possible patch, down the road, perhaps.




Nomad -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/15/2009 6:25:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Can you at least move your Dutch units to other Dutch bases?


Overland and by air transfer, yes.

The team has had many discussions about how to make it possible to move restricted units by ship to other bases of the restricted command . . . coding and other practical concerns got in the way. An issue for a possible patch, down the road, perhaps.




The air transfer will help quite a bit. I remember some discussion about problems with sea transport that would be hard to code around.



jrcar -> RE: 21-22 Dec (2/16/2009 2:46:47 AM)

23-24 Dec 41

Lots of ASW action. Cathartes has formed a large number of ASW TF to clear out my subs... this is working :(

In the last 4 days he has sunk 1 sub, severely damaged 2 more and damaged another couple, but he has had a KV (Corvette) and a DD torpedoed in the process... for example this sub goes down fighting!

Submarine under attack near Pearl Harbor at 178,109

Japanese Ships
SS I-19, hits 7, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DD Ward
DD Schley, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Chew
DD Litchfield



DD Ward fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Schley attacking submerged sub ....
DD Chew fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Litchfield fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Schley fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Chew fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Litchfield attacking submerged sub ....
DD Litchfield attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-19 forced to surface!
DD Schley firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Chew firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Schley firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Chew firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Schley firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Chew firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Chew firing on surfaced sub ....
Contact with submarine is lost

Hits by aircraft are now rare, although both sides are still picking up subs from the air (I have a number of units on ASW patrol around the place). Detections are way down overall, which is good. Subs are attacking a bit more, and the use of ASW huntergroups is now more important (even if ahistorical for this time period). The air detections lower the chance of a sub attacking. So so far the recent changes have significantly improved ASW from stock.

In Mayala I take Georgetown, am advancing south as fast as our bicycles can take us!

In Malaya Sinkawang falls and aircraft move in.

Airfield attacks on Singapore are fairly effective, but are being disrupted by the weather. Attacks will increase soon.

In the Phillipines I'm still sweeping to clear the way for the bombers, and support the ground troops as they advance. Airfields on Luson are almost ready to support the offensive.

In the DEI Kendari is invaded and should fall next turn, follow-on forces are following on!

Two large invasions should happen in the next turn or so, both supported by carriers.

The CentPac is quiet, waiting before ops elsewhere are over so that carriers can support further actions.

China I'm advancing in the north, consolidating in the centre, and still bombarding Hong Kong. Hong Kong can be a pain, it is a knife edge, and bad roll sees it fall fairly quickly, or stay for a while. Really need to bombard from ground and wait for a few days before attacking. In this game I basically attacked right away to see if I could... I couldn't!

Cheers

Rob






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